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PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Health warning:
My thread last week seems to have been contaminated somehow, not sure how but I, for instance, have been unable to open it since a couple of hours after I posted it.
Hopefully Davie's theory of some malicious word appearing in an ad is correct and the remainder of the board is as trouble-free as it appears.
Regardless, just a couple of notes this week in the interests of getting a thread moving:

1).A good week in San Diego for following "horses for courses" and local players - there's always good betting value to be found in keeping a judicious eye on those criteria. Certainly not foolproof but well worth consideration every week.

2).They said Leishman was the 13th Aussie to earn five PGA Tour wins. I certainly can't come up with 12 others:
Ferrier, Thomson (if they include his Open Championships), Crampton, Devlin, Norman, Elkington, Appleby, Ogilvy, Day, Scott, and I'm struggling after that! Two to go, and I must think they're older gents who I've forgotten.

3).The Waste Management Phoenix Open this week. I wonder how many pros WM sponsor other than Charlie Hoffman? Hoffman has had a lousy year or so but is one of a number of players who seem to have slumped but may be making a comeback. Steele is another. And will Bill Haas ever find his mojo again - seems to have been all downhill for him since his fatal Ferrari snafu?

4).And several others are clambering their way back from long-term injuries, Kevin Chappell among the best of 'em. Sean O'Hair has been finding some form on the Korn Ferry Tour and plays this week.
One wonders whether others will fully return, Camilo (rehabbing on the Korn Ferry), Van Pelt, Lovemark, fatties Knost & Stadler, Kirk, Hahn & Huh, Schwartzel and Luke Donald, almost all of whom are in this week's field . . . . . . .  

5). . . . . As is Dechambeau who gave himself brain surgery on the flight back from Dubai, has made a miraculous recovery and will be rushed along in Rounds 1 & 2 by Fowler and Finau, neither prolific winners, but at least like to get a move on. Rickie defends his title this week, probably a lousy price but is one of a number of course specialists here, along with Hideki, Woodland, Simpson, Steele and even Martin Laird (who must be teetering on the edge of seeing his playing "privileges slowly slip, sliding away).

6).The Seniors are rocking the casbah in Morocco with a putrid turn out from the American Champions Tour crew but a good turnout from European Tour veterans. Kinda surprised not to find Karlsson's name among them.

7).CBS unveiled their new commentating crew last week - thought Davis Love was better than I expected he'd be, but Mark Immelman is a tough listen. Quite like Trev but I'd imagine they'll be thinking long and hard about older brother Marky. I'd much prefer Matt Gogel or Oberholser but it seems Immelman has the connections. Oh well, perhaps he's auditioning to cover the Premier Golf League.

8).And, on that note, I wonder if the participation In Saudi of the likes of Koepka, Reed, Johnson and Mickelson (and perhaps some others) is linked to World Golf Group?
Anyone defecting to WGG had better not bellyache about anything or it'll be off to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul for them.

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Post by superflyweight Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:46 pm

If you're not a racist then it's a terribly unfortunate coincidence that:

- the politician that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the golfer that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the Formula 1 driver that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the tennis player that you most regularly disparage is black; and
- the musicians whom you choose to call out for making political statements are black.

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:47 pm

beninho wrote:How many people have you called stabzy or a derivative of?
Probably quite a few, I've referred to the IRA as bomb slingers and kneecap smashers, is that racist?

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:50 pm

superflyweight wrote:If you're not a racist then it's a terribly unfortunate coincidence that:

- the politician that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the golfer that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the Formula 1 driver that you most regularly disparage is black;
- the tennis player that you most regularly disparage is black; and
- the musicians whom you choose to call out for making political statements are black.

Wrong, the politician I most disparage is Jeremy Corbyn, is he black?
I disparage Plenty golfers of all ethnicities.
Hamilton and Serena are brats, I've never said anything racist about either and have hardly ever mentioned them anyway, I've also more dislike for Nadal than either of those two.

I was calling out Joquin Phoenix and all his white luvvy mates the other week for their political statements, does that mean I shouldn't mention Dave the no mark?

Poor effort on your part and  too easy to counter with more examples of people I've disparaged who are not black.

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Post by McLaren Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:53 pm

Super

Do you now see why we are reluctant to play your game?

You bring up a comment that is quite clearly racist, we explain why and you just dismiss the reasoning. I get the feeling you think that the only way to be racist is doing something as blatant as using the N world. And even then you would argue something about context or some other such bs.
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Post by beninho Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:How many people have you called stabzy or a derivative of?
Probably quite a few, I've referred to the IRA as bomb slingers and kneecap smashers, is that racist?

Not what I was talking about. You try to back up the stabzy by saying it's nothing to do with colour. So how many other stab like names have you used. My assumption is none. Just stormzy who you called stabzy because he is a black londoner.

There is no other reason to do it.

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:57 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Do you now see why we are reluctant to play your game?

You bring up a comment that is quite clearly racist, we explain why and you just dismiss the reasoning. I get the feeling you think that the only way to be racist is doing something as blatant as using the N world. And even then you would argue something about context or some other such bs.

Wrong Mac, I'm merely criticising celebrities and sportsmen and politicians for doing things I don't like or don't agree with. Doesn't make me racist. I'd be more interested as to why you go looking for racism in everything.

Who is more likely to know about the context in which something is written? The person who wrote it, or some oaf on tje end of a computer who has never met the person.
One thing I am consistent in is that I dislike many people of many different ethnicities. Safe to say that the variety of these people shows I'm not holding any grudge against any race, don't you think?

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 3:59 pm

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:How many people have you called stabzy or a derivative of?
Probably quite a few, I've referred to the IRA as bomb slingers and kneecap smashers, is that racist?

Not what I was talking about. You try to back up the stabzy by saying it's nothing to do with colour. So how many other stab like names have you used. My assumption is none. Just stormzy who you called stabzy because he is a black londoner.

There is no other reason to do it.

If I'd called Stormzy "man boobs" would that have been racist?
Stormzy represents an industry that celebrates violence. Stabzy has no bearing on race.

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Post by beninho Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:02 pm

Fine. That's your view.

I think it's a bit racist. Thats my view.

See, people can see different things.

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:07 pm

beninho wrote:Fine. That's your view.

I think it's a bit racist. Thats my view.

See, people can see different things.

Fine, then rather than claiming I am racist, please in future state that it is just in your opinion and by your narrow definition of racism that my comments appear racist to you.
Doesn't seem a good reason to hold a view to me, but people hold beliefs on such a flimsy premise.

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Post by beninho Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:13 pm

It's only in my opinion. I don't talk for any other person. It's always been my opinion. I think that's how this whole thing started, on the opinion of an individual.

And to be fair, it's all pretty pretty. Nameless faceless nobody thinks other nameless faceless nobody is a bit racist on internet forum using a persona.

We are all just stupid bloody bumholes arguing it out for days.

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:19 pm

It's more fun than working though and this forum would be dead were it not for a bit of needle and disagreement.
Just better if people aren't slinging around unfounded accusations like Mac has done in the past.

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Post by beninho Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:25 pm

I'm oof due to half term, so it keeps me occupied while the kids cause turn the house upside down.

I'm a crap golfer and my overall knowledge isn't up there with some on here, but I love an argument. My mum used to bloody hate it. And unsure how the wife puts up with me!

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Post by super_realist Wed 19 Feb 2020, 4:29 pm

Bet your wife is better at arguing, they always are. Remember everything

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Post by superflyweight Thu 27 Feb 2020, 9:02 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

If we are being charitable you have the same concerns as Plunky but somehow you manage to express those concerns with none of the empathy Plunky did. You seem to revel in the plight of fat people rather than show a genuine worry for their outcome.

Being as overweight as Haley Moore is probably a very traumatic experience regardless of whether she "brought it on herself" or not.

I can't be empathetic, because I haven't experienced being morbidly obese. I think you mean sympathetic, which I have no requirement to be either. She hasn't been struck down with some illness which has made her body synthesise fat out of nothing. She's morbidly obese because she ingests far more calories than she expends.
Why should I have worry for their predicament? its not like cancer, MS or a virus where the victim is generally blameless. This sort of health disaster is almost always self inflicted.
Obesity is an absolute scourge on developed nations a strain on our health services and a huge weight, pardon the pun on our taxes, and we shouldn't treat it as if the obese person deserves respect and our "sympathy". It should be treated with the same disdain that we treat smokers or any other form of self abuse which results in personal damage.
Treating them with sympathy makes them appear as if it is not their fault and that they have been "struck down" with something they don't deserve.
Everyone knows what is bad for your body. Stop treating people like her as if they are victims.
Some forms of cancer, dementia, heart disease, diabetes etc can all be consequences of being like this disgrace. Actual deserving health cases are being compromised because the NHS is being crippled by selfish people like this monster. People are very quick to blame governments for the issues in health services, but never think to blame the population for their role.
It takes no effort to be healthy, that's why I show no sympathy with this idiot.

Interesting, but not surprising, that you misinterpret the concept of empathy.

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Post by super_realist Thu 27 Feb 2020, 9:44 am

superflyweight wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

If we are being charitable you have the same concerns as Plunky but somehow you manage to express those concerns with none of the empathy Plunky did. You seem to revel in the plight of fat people rather than show a genuine worry for their outcome.

Being as overweight as Haley Moore is probably a very traumatic experience regardless of whether she "brought it on herself" or not.

I can't be empathetic, because I haven't experienced being morbidly obese. I think you mean sympathetic, which I have no requirement to be either. She hasn't been struck down with some illness which has made her body synthesise fat out of nothing. She's morbidly obese because she ingests far more calories than she expends.
Why should I have worry for their predicament? its not like cancer, MS or a virus where the victim is generally blameless. This sort of health disaster is almost always self inflicted.
Obesity is an absolute scourge on developed nations a strain on our health services and a huge weight, pardon the pun on our taxes, and we shouldn't treat it as if the obese person deserves respect and our "sympathy". It should be treated with the same disdain that we treat smokers or any other form of self abuse which results in personal damage.
Treating them with sympathy makes them appear as if it is not their fault and that they have been "struck down" with something they don't deserve.
Everyone knows what is bad for your body. Stop treating people like her as if they are victims.
Some forms of cancer, dementia, heart disease, diabetes etc can all be consequences of being like this disgrace. Actual deserving health cases are being compromised because the NHS is being crippled by selfish people like this monster. People are very quick to blame governments for the issues in health services, but never think to blame the population for their role.
It takes no effort to be healthy, that's why I show no sympathy with this idiot.

Interesting, but not surprising, that you misinterpret the concept of empathy.  

I can't understand what it's like to be fat, because I've got far too much self respect to allow myself to have been in or get into that situation. .
I've carried heavy bags, so know what it's like to carry round extra weight, but that doesn't mean I understand what it's like to be morbidly obese 24 hours a day, and I very much doubt you do either.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 27 Feb 2020, 10:38 am

You don't have to experience something to exhibit empathy.

For example, I am not Jewish and wasn't directly affected by the Holocaust, but I can empathise with Jewish people who are concerned about the rise of Holocaust denial and anti-semitism.

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Post by McLaren Thu 27 Feb 2020, 10:44 am

superflyweight wrote:You don't have to experience something to exhibit empathy.  

For example, I am not Jewish and wasn't directly affected by the Holocaust, but I can empathise with Jewish people who are concerned about the rise of Holocaust denial and anti-semitism.  

A really bad example to pick considering who you are trying to reason with. Run
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Post by super_realist Thu 27 Feb 2020, 5:00 pm

superflyweight wrote:You don't have to experience something to exhibit empathy.  

For example, I am not Jewish and wasn't directly affected by the Holocaust, but I can empathise with Jewish people who are concerned about the rise of Holocaust denial and anti-semitism.  

Sympathy and empathy are two very different things and I would very much doubt any of us can emphasise with someone who has experienced or been affected by the holocaust.
Sympathy yes, but I really don't think any of us can understand what any of them went through, you might imagine that you can, but I very much doubt you'd get close to what they feel or have felt.

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Post by superflyweight Fri 28 Feb 2020, 9:34 am

Not a shock that someone who clearly has issues with demonstrating empathy doesn't properly understand the concept of empathy.

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Post by super_realist Mon 02 Mar 2020, 7:55 am

superflyweight wrote:Not a shock that someone who clearly has issues with demonstrating empathy doesn't properly understand the concept of empathy.  

Are you really so naïve that you think you can understand what it is like to have your baby thrown into a concentration camp oven, or see your family stabbed to death with bayonettes, experimented on by a mad doctor,  worked and starved to death or lined up back to back and shot so the solider can save bullets, yeah, I'm sure you can really empathise with that.

You cannot get near understanding what that would be  like, so please don't tell me you can emphasise with holocaust survivors, because you haven't got a clue what it is like, even if you think you can. Even if you are a relative and your great grandparents were there, you have no clue as to what it would be like.

Empathy is the ability to understand the feelings of someone else. How on earth do you think you can understand what it is to be a holocaust survivor? I'd love to know how you think you can understand what that is like. How massively arrogant.

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Post by superflyweight Mon 02 Mar 2020, 7:32 pm

You’re not the sharpest are you? I said I could understand why Jewish people would be particularly sensitive to the rise of anti-semitism given the past horrors that were suffered by the Jews.

You should give reading and comprehension a try before diving in with what is quite frankly an hysterical response.

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Post by super_realist Tue 03 Mar 2020, 7:56 am

superflyweight wrote:You’re not the sharpest are you?  I said I could understand why Jewish people would be particularly sensitive to the rise of anti-semitism given the past horrors that were suffered by the Jews.

You should give reading and comprehension a try before diving in with what is quite frankly an hysterical response.  

No you couldn't, because without understanding what the holocaust was like, then anti Semitism is nothing more than "sticks and stones".

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Post by superflyweight Tue 03 Mar 2020, 9:09 am

And I repeat, not a shock that someone who clearly has issues with demonstrating empathy doesn't properly understand the concept of empathy.

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Post by McLaren Tue 03 Mar 2020, 1:42 pm

super_realist wrote:without understanding what the holocaust was like, then anti Semitism is nothing more than "sticks and stones".

Shocked


WTF, do you really believe this?
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Post by super_realist Wed 04 Mar 2020, 8:04 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:without understanding what the holocaust was like, then anti Semitism is nothing more than "sticks and stones".

Shocked


WTF, do you really believe this?

Lack of comprehension on your part again Mac.

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Post by McLaren Wed 04 Mar 2020, 11:07 am

Then please explain?
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Post by super_realist Thu 05 Mar 2020, 7:54 am

Mac, I may have missed out a word or two there. What I should have said is that unless you have direct experience of something similar to the holocaust, then you can't understand what something like modern anti-Semitism means to a person, and if you are unaffected by it, then to that individual it is indistinguishable from name calling (unless of course the anti semitism in question results in discrimination in the workplace or something along those lines) because you have nothing to relate it to.

WHat I'm saying is that someone claiming they can empathise with anti Semitism is similar to someone thinking they understand what is like to be racially abused, sexually harassed or discriminated on the basis of sexuality. I'm sure that even someone as woke as you wouldn't pretend to know that you can understand what that is like, coming from a white, Scottish, presumably quasi middle class background with little or no experience of any of those things.

My point is that I don't think any non jewish person can really understand (or empathise) about what anti semitism is, despite their claims that they do unless they have something which can be directly related.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:13 am

With all due respect, what does this have to do w/ the Phoenix Open? Take it elsewhere.
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Post by superflyweight Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:19 am

navyblueshorts wrote:With all due respect, what does this have to do w/ the Phoenix Open? Take it elsewhere.

I sympathise with your position.

(but he really doesn't understand what empathy is).

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Post by super_realist Fri 06 Mar 2020, 7:46 am

navyblueshorts wrote:With all due respect, what does this have to do w/ the Phoenix Open? Take it elsewhere.

The thread is long dead as far as the Phoenix Open is concerned. What's the problem?

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:28 am

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:With all due respect, what does this have to do w/ the Phoenix Open? Take it elsewhere.

The thread is long dead as far as the Phoenix Open is concerned. What's the problem?
Fine.
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