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F1 2020 Season

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 07 Feb 2020, 11:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017

F1 2020 Season - Page 10 _110799339_haas_car


Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...
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Post by No name Bertie Sun 09 Aug 2020, 9:27 pm

In Charles Leclerc's post race interview he was saying how he overrided his teams early morning suggestion of a two stopper.  He said they were worried but he told them exactly what he was going to do and they had to help him make it work.  The maturity and leadership qualities he is beginning to display within his team is perhaps just another indicator of why he has had nothing but success in climbing the ranks within motor racing.  Meanwhile the relationship between Sebastian Vettel and his team seems to have hit an all time low. The team dedicated to Vettel are surely trying their best, because that is their job, and Vettel's success is their success. But clearly there are issues.
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Post by GSC Mon 10 Aug 2020, 2:42 pm

I think Verstappen has won more races than Bottas since 2018
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Post by Guest Tue 11 Aug 2020, 10:07 am

There has been some tentative talks between Ferrari and Racing Point over the potential switch between Vettel and Perez. Obviously it’s assumed Vettel is already an Aston Martin driver - some reports in German suggests he’s decided to leave F1. Perez is a candidate for both Alfa Romeo and Haas.

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Post by Guest Tue 11 Aug 2020, 10:10 am

GSC wrote:I think Verstappen has won more races than Bottas since 2018
6-5 in Verstappen’s favour.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 11 Aug 2020, 11:34 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:
GSC wrote:I think Verstappen has won more races than Bottas since 2018
6-5 in Verstappen’s favour.
Since the start of the 2017 season we have them tied on 8-8.

Since the start of the 2017 season all F1 race wins (67 races):
Hamilton.... 34
Bottas...... 08
Vettel....... 11
Leclerc...... 02 (one season + 2020 at Ferrari)
Raikonnen.. 01 (two seasons at Ferrari)
Verstappen. 08
Ricciardo.... 03 (two seasons at Red Bull: was 3-4 in Verstappen's favour for 2017-2018)
Gasly......... 00 (12 races 2019 at Red Bull)
Albon......... 00 (.9 races 2019 + 5 races 2020 at Red Bull)
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Post by Guest Wed 12 Aug 2020, 10:57 am

Williams and McLaren withdraw from protesting against the RP. Mercedes leaning on their customers, tends to suggest something wants to be covered up.

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 12 Aug 2020, 11:13 am

Mercedes have been made to look like an idiot. They first claimed that Racing Point must have copied the external shell of the 2019 Mercedes from photographs but it has since been revealed that Mercedes passed on or sold design drawings directly to Racing Point.

This has uncovered some sort of "collusion" between Mercedes / Toto Wolff and Racing Point / Lawrence Stroll. We also know that Lawrence Stroll has taken over Aston Martin and Toto Wolff is now an investor in Aston Martin.

Whatever has actually happened and whatever the practices of other teams, the reputation of Mercedes has been brought into question.
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Post by GSC Wed 12 Aug 2020, 11:36 am

Which was all legal at the time
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Post by Guest Wed 12 Aug 2020, 2:29 pm

Ferrari confirms Vettel has a new chassis after the old one had suffered ‘minor damage from the kerbs at Silverstone’. Which is total BS as Italian press reports the chassis has been badly damaged since LeClerc crashed into Vettel in Austria 2

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Post by Guest Thu 13 Aug 2020, 9:14 am

Sergio Perez tests negative and is back for Spanish GP

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Post by Guest Thu 13 Aug 2020, 12:42 pm

Qualifying engines modes, ‘party mode’, set to be banned from as early as the Belgian GP.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 14 Aug 2020, 10:08 am

The Spanish Grand Prix (Barcelona) is a circuit where it is difficult to overtake.   Races tend to be processional and qualifying position critical.
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Post by GSC Fri 14 Aug 2020, 7:00 pm

Banning the party mode is a backwards move. The engine mode would effectively become part of parc ferme, which means teams couldn't use overtake modes in races.

Max pretty close on race pace

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Post by Guest Fri 14 Aug 2020, 8:50 pm

The left rear tyre is critical in Barcelona, Mercedes will lock out the front row by if Verstappen keeps them close it could be Silverstone 2 repeat.

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Aug 2020, 8:52 am

Toto Wolff says he’s missing his wife and that’s why he’s leaning towards leaving Mercedes. Whilst he might be being honest, there’s also speculation that with Daimler wanting a government bailout, that Wolff’s exit would free up money to get Hamilton’s contract done.

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Post by No name Bertie Sat 15 Aug 2020, 10:16 am

Albon has spoken about his difficulties in qualifying.  He says the issue for him is finding the rhythm in the one lap scenario.  Most people are happy with his actual racing, it just that now his qualifying pace gap to Verstappen is becoming a real issue and is costing Red Bull points.  It also shows up in the free practice sessions.  So for example in both FP1 and FP2 in Spain yesterday he was about 0.8 sec off Verstappen's fastest lap.  

I thought it was something to do with finding an optimised car set-up but Albon was saying he was having difficulties finding a comfortable rhythm, where you have a slow warm up in-lap (finding or creating a gap to the next car) and then having to switch to an all out as fast as you can go lap.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 10:38 am

His race pace really isn't all there either though.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 15 Aug 2020, 12:10 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Albon has spoken about his difficulties in qualifying.  He says the issue for him is finding the rhythm in the one lap scenario.  Most people are happy with his actual racing, it just that now his qualifying pace gap to Verstappen is becoming a real issue and is costing Red Bull points.  It also shows up in the free practice sessions.  So for example in both FP1 and FP2 in Spain yesterday he was about 0.8 sec off Verstappen's fastest lap.  

I thought it was something to do with finding an optimised car set-up but Albon was saying he was having difficulties finding a comfortable rhythm, where you have a slow warm up in-lap (finding or creating a gap to the next car) and then having to switch to an all out as fast as you can go lap.

One problem Red Bull have created for themselves is this insistence of promoting from within. Dipping in to take drivers from junior team Roro Rosso (now Alpha Tauri) and promoting them. It is like an obsession. What happened to them looking around for the best F1 drivers available to them regardless of who they are employed by? Limiting their choices limits the chances of them getting the best drivers in my opinion.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm

Should be a penalty heading k mags way
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Post by No name Bertie Sat 15 Aug 2020, 12:22 pm

Red Bull looked to have the ideal driver set-up with Ricciardo and Verstappen.  I don't know why they allowed Ricciardo to go or why Ricciardo himself decided to go as he was winning races with Red Bull.  In the two seasons of 2017 and 2018 Ricciardo won three races (to Verstappen's four) and he could have won more but for engine reliability issues.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 12:26 pm

Riccardo left because he saw the writing on the wall with Max
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Post by Guest Sat 15 Aug 2020, 1:09 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:Albon has spoken about his difficulties in qualifying.  He says the issue for him is finding the rhythm in the one lap scenario.  Most people are happy with his actual racing, it just that now his qualifying pace gap to Verstappen is becoming a real issue and is costing Red Bull points.  It also shows up in the free practice sessions.  So for example in both FP1 and FP2 in Spain yesterday he was about 0.8 sec off Verstappen's fastest lap.  

I thought it was something to do with finding an optimised car set-up but Albon was saying he was having difficulties finding a comfortable rhythm, where you have a slow warm up in-lap (finding or creating a gap to the next car) and then having to switch to an all out as fast as you can go lap.

One problem Red Bull have created for themselves is this insistence of promoting from within. Dipping in to take drivers from junior team Roro Rosso (now Alpha Tauri) and promoting them. It is like an obsession. What happened to them looking around for the best F1 drivers available to them regardless of who they are employed by? Limiting their choices limits the chances of them getting the best drivers in my opinion.
Red Bull’s main problem is they’ve set the bar ridiculously high eg Vettel and Verstappen. These are not the kind of drivers you can unearth at the drop of a hat.

Ricciardo for all the bravado is merely a slightly better version of Webber. They should’ve given Gasly more time, as someone who watches a lot of junior series racing, Gasly is incredibly talented.
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It’s not like their system isn’t working, but Red Bull won’t ever put two top drivers together so essentially the second driver is the sacrificial lamb.

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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 2:56 pm

They need a 2nd driver experienced enough to do the job without needing managing because they obviously can't handle a 2nd driver who needs coaching up
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Post by Guest Sat 15 Aug 2020, 2:56 pm

Turkey and Jerez to be added to the calendar. Will take place after the Imola, Portimao, Nurburgring triple header.

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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 2:59 pm

Cant imagine Turkey will be good in current cars but good to see a classic circuit back

Jerez will be a snooze fest
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 3:04 pm

Max in position to try and force the Mercedes on race pace. Racing Point in 4/5 need to turn this into a big weekend.

Ferrari nowhere really. Vettel P11, Charles P9. Gonna be a long 18 months to a reg change
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Post by dyrewolfe Sat 15 Aug 2020, 3:09 pm

No surprises in quali. Just hope the race is more interesting.

Actually a bit disappointed Pirelli reverted to the harder tyre compounds. Putting Mercedes in a spot of bother at least made things less predictable. Might even have forced them to develop their car so it didn't destroy softer tyres.

As it is, its looking set for Lewis, Valtteri & Max to be occupying the podium places tomorrow.
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Post by No name Bertie Sat 15 Aug 2020, 3:14 pm

There has been no improvement for Albon in terms of single qualifying lap time.   He scraped through to Q3 by 0.005s, and was fortunate to finish P6 given others had posted faster times in Q2.  In Q3 he was 0.74s off Verstappen.   Last year Gasly was 0.35s off Verstappen on the same track.  

Vettel missed out on Q3 by 0.002s finishing P11 but was only 0.2s down on Leclerc's time.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 15 Aug 2020, 5:39 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:Albon has spoken about his difficulties in qualifying.  He says the issue for him is finding the rhythm in the one lap scenario.  Most people are happy with his actual racing, it just that now his qualifying pace gap to Verstappen is becoming a real issue and is costing Red Bull points.  It also shows up in the free practice sessions.  So for example in both FP1 and FP2 in Spain yesterday he was about 0.8 sec off Verstappen's fastest lap.  

I thought it was something to do with finding an optimised car set-up but Albon was saying he was having difficulties finding a comfortable rhythm, where you have a slow warm up in-lap (finding or creating a gap to the next car) and then having to switch to an all out as fast as you can go lap.

One problem Red Bull have created for themselves is this insistence of promoting from within. Dipping in to take drivers from junior team Roro Rosso (now Alpha Tauri) and promoting them. It is like an obsession. What happened to them looking around for the best F1 drivers available to them regardless of who they are employed by? Limiting their choices limits the chances of them getting the best drivers in my opinion.
Red Bull’s main problem is they’ve set the bar ridiculously high eg Vettel and Verstappen. These are not the kind of drivers you can unearth at the drop of a hat.

Ricciardo for all the bravado is merely a slightly better version of Webber. They should’ve given Gasly more time, as someone who watches a lot of junior series racing, Gasly is incredibly talented.
Sainz
Gasly
Ricciardo
It’s not like their system isn’t working, but Red Bull won’t ever put two top drivers together so essentially the second driver is the sacrificial lamb.

Perhaps they do not want to re-enter the Vettel/Webber or Vettel/Ricciardo years where it was such a volatile mixture that saw much ructions/bickerings and their cars taking each other out. They may feel that top driver and supporting driver (or scapegoat if you will) gives them a more settled team without any risks of returning to fractitious partnerships of the past. I suppose it is no different an approach than what Ferrari long held true to. Michael Schumacher had a supporting driver only who'd be expected to play the support role entirely and some would argue that Mercedes have gone down that route too.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 5:44 pm

Did Vettel and Riccardo collide at RB?

Think he had more collisions with Verstappen
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 15 Aug 2020, 5:45 pm

GSC wrote:Did Vettel and Riccardo collide at RB?

Think he had more collisions with Verstappen

Of course. Wrong partnerships but you catch my drift. Volatility they are looking to avoid but I'm sure they could beef up their driving line-up a little better than they have in the last year or two.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 6:21 pm

They just don't support their 2nd driver. Gasly and Kvyat both far better at TR than RB, Albon promoted way too early because he was the only option by default. They might as well just install a Perez or Hulkenburg in the 2nd seat that will deliver an above average job with little to no maintenance needed.

If someone could get Gasly out of TR they'd have a serious driver on their hands
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 6:23 pm

I'm sure theyd be much happier if Gasly/Albon challenged Max once in a while rather than being miles off the pace
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 15 Aug 2020, 6:25 pm

GSC wrote:They just don't support their 2nd driver. Gasly and Kvyat both far better at TR than RB, Albon promoted way too early because he was the only option by default. They might as well just install a Perez or Hulkenburg in the 2nd seat that will deliver an above average job with little to no maintenance needed.

If someone could get Gasly out of TR they'd have a serious driver on their hands

Yes that is what I mean. There are drivers out there with better potential than their Red Bull 'junior' drivers (for want of a better term) such as Perez, Hulkenberg, Norris or even George Russell.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm

And really you only have to look back to last year for evidence of that. Max beat LeClerc and Vettel but RB finished third a way back from Ferrari because they got little from the 2nd seat

Won't make any difference this year but if they aspire to challenge Mercedes it will.
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Post by GSC Sat 15 Aug 2020, 6:28 pm

I'd argue Gasly is as good as any of those also
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Post by Guest Sat 15 Aug 2020, 8:30 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Hulk at Red Bull tbh, Verstappen has been very vocal in the cheerleading for the German’s full time return in 2021. And Verstappen doesn’t seem like someone you could influence into hyping someone up.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun 16 Aug 2020, 8:48 am

GSC wrote:Did Vettel and Riccardo collide at RB?

Think he had more collisions with Verstappen

But don't forget Max had a bit of a reputation for hitting other cars...hence his nickname "Crash" Verstappen. So its unfair to put all the blame on Daniel.


GSC wrote:
I'd argue Gasly is as good as any of those also

Well he's certainly making a strong case for being given another shot at RB. Often out-performing Albon in qualifying...if not always on Sunday.


Jeff Navarro wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Hulk at Red Bull tbh, Verstappen has been very vocal in the cheerleading for the German’s full time return in 2021. And Verstappen doesn’t seem like someone you could influence into hyping someone up.

Especially not someone who's already arguing with / ignoring his team and telling them he's not going to drive like a Granny! Laugh

I would honestly love to see Hulk in a Red Bull. He's already given a glimpse of what he can do at RP...he doesn't seem to have lost any of his ability. Think he could even put a bit of pressure on Max - in qualifying at least. Would be a strong pairing IMO...the difference being Nico doesn't seem to have an ego and would be a good team player. Probably because he's never been in a competitive car and in a position to win races.


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Post by GSC Sun 16 Aug 2020, 8:50 am

Well yeah the two I both remember were Max's fault, I just can't remember a Vettel/Ric crash at RB
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Post by No name Bertie Sun 16 Aug 2020, 9:31 am

The reasoning Red Bull gave for promoting Albon over Gasly was to a) Gasly was seen to be struggling at Red Bull b) to get data on Albon in order to compare their three drivers: Albon, Gasly and Kyviat.   Towards the end of 2019 Red Bull decided to stick with the arrangement because it seemed to them Albon had done enough to keep his place for the time being.

Now into the 2020 season and we have had the Pandemic and apparent problems with the Red Bull drivability.  Albon had shown promise and it looked like he would have at least got one podium finish in 2019 and possibly one victory early in 2020 - but both times he was taken out by Hamilton.  This was showing Albon mixing it at the top with the Mercedes.  

However the latter four races and so far for this Grand Prix it is becoming clear that Albon is struggling more than last year relative to Verstappen and this is mainly down to not qualifying high enough.  So he is no longer mixing it with the Mercedes or towards the front, and is getting stuck behind so called DRS trains of cars.  It is becoming clear what is currently preventing Albon from progressing and Albon has already said he is having difficulties with the single lap pace.

Meanwhile Gasly on return to AlphaTauri / Toro Rosso seems to have gone from strength to strength.

I would be interested in peoples thoughts on where Kyviat fits into all of this.   I hear comments that Gasly should be re-promoted to Red Bull or for someone outside of Red Bull to be brought in - but I haven't heard of peoples thoughts on Kyviat?
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Post by GSC Sun 16 Aug 2020, 11:34 am

Albon kept the drive because there was no alternative, the same reason he got it.

Even in his unluckiest moments, he's needed luck to be there. Austria he needed Maxs engine to blow up and a late race SC while Merc were nursing both gearboxes

Where would Kvyat fit into it? Gaslys taken him apart at TR
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 16 Aug 2020, 11:45 am

Kvyat certainly not the answer. They should be looking outwith the Red Bull camp for potential drivers. I have listed my suggestions earlier. People such as Hulkenberg, Perez, Norris or even George Russell who has dragged the awful Williams up above other cars in qualifying and in races.
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Post by Guest Sun 16 Aug 2020, 11:55 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Kvyat certainly not the answer. They should be looking outwith the Red Bull camp for potential drivers. I have listed my suggestions earlier. People such as Hulkenberg, Perez, Norris or even George Russell who has dragged the awful Williams up above other cars in qualifying and in races.
I think the only realistic options outside of the Red Bull system are Hulkenberg and Perez. Norris is a McLaren protégé and there’s no real chance Red Bull would pay to buy out his contract. Russell is 99% likely to join Mercedes in 2022.

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Post by No name Bertie Sun 16 Aug 2020, 12:00 pm

There had been rumours that Vettel to Red Bull was on the cards apart from Christian Horner saying definitely no and strong rumours that Vettel to Racing Point / Aston Martin was a done deal.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 16 Aug 2020, 12:13 pm

No name Bertie wrote:There had been rumours that Vettel to Red Bull was on the cards apart from Christian Horner saying definitely no and strong rumours that Vettel to Racing Point / Aston Martin was a done deal.

I cannot see that happening for reasons I mentioned before. That would be a clear return to a volatile partnership.

Vettel to Racing Point/Aston Martin I could certainly see happening.
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Post by GSC Sun 16 Aug 2020, 1:01 pm

McLaren/Mercedes won't let Norris/Russell out, it's a non starter
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 16 Aug 2020, 1:12 pm

GSC wrote:McLaren/Mercedes won't let Norris/Russell out, it's a non starter

Okay.

That is another problem with F1 just now - the amount of cliques there are.

Turn the clock back to the early 80s and before and it was every team for itself with no cliques. Today there are three main factions - Mercedes who work closely with Racing Point and have their own driver programme. Red Bull and their close ties to junior team Alpha Tauri with their own driver programme. And then you have Ferrari with ties to Alfa Romeo who use Ferrari engines. Six teams almost in partnerships - more than half of the grid.
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Post by GSC Sun 16 Aug 2020, 1:14 pm

It's not a clique thing, they're not going to let their future #1 drivers leave (permanently in Russell's case)
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 16 Aug 2020, 1:20 pm

GSC wrote:It's not a clique thing, they're not going to let their future #1 drivers leave (permanently in Russell's case)

No I don't mean on the driver front. I mean on the team front - cliques exist between teams that you never use to have.
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Post by GSC Sun 16 Aug 2020, 1:23 pm

Eh it's always been there to an extent, Mercedes/Renault/Honda etc have supplied engines while running teams. It's more enhanced now that we don't have normalised engine performance.

It's never made much of a significant difference to the racing.
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