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F1 2020 Season

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 07 Feb 2020, 11:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017

F1 2020 Season - Page 2 _110799339_haas_car


Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...
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Post by GSC Thu 19 Mar 2020, 8:43 pm

none of them can really afford to design a new car without income
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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 20 Mar 2020, 8:52 am

GSC wrote:none of them can really afford to design a new car without income

Well teams start designing next season's cars halfway through the current one...even earlier if there are major changes planned, so I think most of them will already have done a lot of work on the 2021 cars.

But I suppose it makes sense to put that work on hold until a regular schedule can be re-established. Its not just the income, but factories and suppliers may have staff self-isolating, or they could be experiencing parts / materials shortages.
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Post by GSC Fri 20 Mar 2020, 9:11 am

the isolation stuff is a factor but most teams just cant afford to write off developing a car without a seasons income. Imagine a fair few are at risk without the season going ahead so this is a sensible measure to reduce costs
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Post by Guest Mon 23 Mar 2020, 12:51 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:They are currently looking at starting the season with the Azerbaijan GP on 7th June

Azerbaijan officially cancelled now. Doubtful any F1 season begins before August.

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Post by dyrewolfe Wed 25 Mar 2020, 9:05 am

Just John wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:They are currently looking at starting the season with the Azerbaijan GP on 7th June

Azerbaijan officially cancelled now. Doubtful any F1 season begins before August.

Yeah I heard. Looks like that 8-race championship could be a thing this year.
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Post by No name Bertie Wed 25 Mar 2020, 11:14 am

There is no cure for coronavirus apart from the individuals immune system - which isn't good enough for some.  This thing is going to continue to claim lives into next year.  

Currently the only hope is for a vaccine - which many estimate would take 12 - 18 months to produce (although throw enough money and expertise at it and it should be achievable earlier) or for herd immunity to develop - meaning enough people have caught it and survived to create a herd barrier to prevent rapid spread, enabling the existing health service to cope with those that do get it in the serious form.

Things could happen with this virus - new strains could emerge, either more lethal, less lethal or equally lethal.  There is no solid evidence of that occurring so far.

Sporting events with large crowds are off for the foreseeable future.  Some have been suspended with a tentative return date subject to review.  Others have been delayed to next year.

Sports can return but behind closed doors to begin with.  In general healthy people, with no underlying health issues, and not elderly are not at significant risk of death.  However in sports maybe managers, owners, ground staff, analysts, admin etc may fall into the risk group.

There is additional problems with international sports - this requires cross borders travel, involving people distributed around the world.   When one hot spot lessens another hot spot may develop.  This virus started in one province in China and now it has spread.  It's spread was a direct result of international travel of infected people.

My view is that this season is going to be scrapped and then we start again next year with this years car for next year and all the major regulation changes brought in for 2022.

Looking at what happened and is happening in Italy and Spain with regard to Coronavirus, expect something similar for Britain over the next few weeks. It is going to take a while for the effects of the lockdown to be seen. Spain went into lockdown on 14th March and look where it is now.
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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 07 Apr 2020, 11:06 am

Its really starting to hit F1 hard now.

Those in senior roles are taking voluntary pay cuts of up to 20%, while Chase Cary has agreed to a higher cut - "significantly deeper than 20%".

Many personnel will use the government's job retention scheme that pays 80% of wages up to £2,500 a month.

Liberty Media is not thought to be in any financial difficulties, but some of the smaller teams are facing an existential crisis, if the loss of income continues.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52198033


In other news, there is still no agreement on a budget cap. That is to say, they have provisionally agreed to a cap of $175m (£136m) but McLaren boss Zak Brown has been pushing for this to be reduced further to $125m (£98m).

The larger teams (Ferrari, Red Bull etc.) have pushed back, saying this isn't fair as smaller teams buy a lot of stuff from them, meaning they need to do less R&D.

Simple solution IMO is to end the practice of buying kit from other teams - other than the engine. Let teams get their power trains from whoever they want, but everything else has to be done in-house.

In any case - suppliers get paid for for their equipment, so I don't see how they are losing out (financially, at least).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52186477
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Post by No name Bertie Tue 07 Apr 2020, 12:37 pm

R&D is very expensive - mainly in terms of salaries to highly educated / trained people with experience. Plus various bits of research / engineering equipment that generally require a specialist team to operate. They are not going to recoup that if they only sell in very low quantities.
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Post by Guest Tue 12 May 2020, 8:28 am

Vettel officially leaving Ferrari at end of 2020.

No real surprise. Back-to-back choke jobs, and being a large financial outlay, can see why Ferrari have made the decision. I’d imagine Ricciardo as his replacement.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 12 May 2020, 8:39 am

Who are the realistic options to take that seat?
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Post by Guest Tue 12 May 2020, 9:05 am

Ricciardo free agent
Sainz is apparently keen
Hamilton free agent, but he won’t leave Mercedes
Alonso 😂
Cheap Hulkenberg #2

That’s it. I’d bet Danny Ric

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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 12 May 2020, 11:41 am

I'd put money on the fact Ferrari wouldn't guarantee him #1 driver status was the reason Seb decided to up sticks (he himself stated money wasn't the issue).

Names being touted as possible replacements include Sainz, Ricciardo and Giovinazzi.

Thing is, are Ferrari going to continue the "equal driver status" experiment from last season, or are they going to revert to having a #1 driver (presumably Leclerc), with whoever joins being the wingman?

If thats the case, would either of those two want to join...even for the prestige? Carlos is the senior driver at McLaren and Danny has equal status (I'm guessing) at Renault. That has to count for a lot, over and above bigger salaries and status that goes with the Ferrari name.

If they are going to pin their hopes on Leclerc, Giovinazzi would make the most sense, as he'd be a much more compliant #2 (IMHO).

In any case, it looks like this is the end of Vettel in F1. Mercedes don't look like changing their lineup any time soon and Red Bull wouldn't have him back. Maybe he'll sign up with Sky and become a pundit / pit lane reporter?
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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 12 May 2020, 11:45 am

Just John wrote:Ricciardo free agent
Sainz is apparently keen
Hamilton free agent, but he won’t leave Mercedes
Alonso 😂
Cheap Hulkenberg #2

That’s it. I’d bet Danny Ric


Well if Sainz got the call and accepted, that would leave the door open for Alonso to return to McLaren... Whistle

I can see the temptation of scoring podiums on a fairly regular basis might be hard to resist. But on the flip side, being the wingman to a much younger, less experienced driver would be hard to stomach, I feel.
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Post by Marky Tue 12 May 2020, 6:39 pm

I agree on Giovinazzi getting the gig, unlikely to upstage Leclerc in the short term, but still talented enough to grow into what Ferrari want long term. Plus he's Italian so the fans would give them the benefit of the doubt for not bringing in a big name to replace Vettel.

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Post by GSC Tue 12 May 2020, 6:55 pm

Riccardo seems like the obvious candidate to me.

Alonso burnt his bridges enough, and unlikely to accept parity with LeClerc.

Sainz seems a bit of a reach given some of the guys RB preferred to put in the 2nd seat.

Giovanazzi seems a stretch to be promoted at the moment. That would be the last resort I guess
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Post by Guest Tue 12 May 2020, 9:43 pm

Hey everyone newbie poster here. I was based in Italy for a long time with my business therefore got into F1 and naturally followed Ferrari.

I'd like to offer up a few caveats regarding on the Ferrari woes.

There was a high % of Ferrari employees not happy with the signing of Vettel, also some pro Ferrari media often criticised the German somewhat needlessly. There are still employees that blame Vettel for 'stealing' two championships from Alonso. Make of that what you will.

Another issue has been that 'Alonso beat Raikonnen better than Vettel'. There's some hearsay that during Alonso's time at Ferrari the car was heavily designed with oversteer in mind - raikonnen historically struggled with this. When Vettel joined Ferrari, they swapped to understeer as it's suited both drivers - supposedly they had similar driving styles. As such some say the gap closing was irrelevant, others used it to beat Vettel's reputation.

All that aside, the relationship soured in 2017, Vettel crashed into Verstappen and Raikonnen. That wasn't terminal but the subsequent issues in the following races eroded Vettel's faith. The Ferrari team felt their integrity was questioned.

As for what's next. I can't envisage Ricciardo getting the seat. However much 'Italian' blood he has. His salary at Renault is $20m, LeClerc is on $12m. Not great business sense. More so Ricciardo is desperate to win a championship. He's not going to be a willing second drIver.

Sainz has really matured into a very good, solid driver. As someone above mentioned Red Bull overlooked him. That's more due to issues between Sainz and Verstappen. Sainz would be a very able partner for LeClerc.

Giovinazzi is by no way a last resort. When I was in Italy, he was spoken of very highly. He's incredibly fast. The only issue is his career stalled when he couldn't get a seat back in 2017 and 2018. Given the opportunity he would be a fantastic driver for his boyhood dream team.

So in summery:
1. Sainz
2. Giovinazzi
3. Hulkenberg - cheap option
4. Bottas - cheap option and very much a second driver
5. Ricciardo
6. Schumacher more of a roll the dice option.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 12 May 2020, 10:47 pm

I just wanted to add that Daniel Ricciardo is of Italian ancestry - his father was born in Sicily while his maternal grandparents were both from Southern Italy.

However, Jeff Navarro has just appeared with a pretty insightful and fact filled comment.   OK

I am hearing that Sainz and Giovinazzi are both strong choices, Sainz will be happy with a top seat and won't want to rock the boat - and will play fair, but McLaren won't want to lose him given the Sainz - Norris partnership is running smoothly.  I heard about the Bottas option as well, which would disrupt the Hamilton - Bottas partnership, however I am not sure Bottas would want to move.

ps With Vettel it has been suggested he might be tempted to join a "new team" - Aston Martin - which I think will be a rebranded racing point.
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Post by dyrewolfe Wed 13 May 2020, 9:56 am

Welcome to the boards Jeff!

Thanks for the "behind the scenes" insights. It may be mostly opinion and hearsay, but it does help shed some light on why things have panned out the way they have.

@Bertie: interesting idea re Vettel joining Racing Point / Aston Martin.

That does assume he'd be up for another "rebuilding job" like the one he was meant to spearhead at Ferrari. Though at least in this case there would be no pressure to deliver wins or titles.

It also assumes that the team would be willing to both pay a top driver salary and deal with someone who is likely viewed as a problematic character.
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Post by Guest Wed 13 May 2020, 2:03 pm

Quite a few sources stating that Sainz is heading to Ferrari, with McLaren going back in for Ricciardo, who they wanted two years ago.

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Post by dyrewolfe Thu 14 May 2020, 8:45 am

According to the BBC the moves are all but agreed and everyone just needs to put pen to paper.

A little surprised Sainz agreed to go to Ferrari - but I guess the chance to win podiums on a fairly regular basis, coupled with a bigger salary is pretty tempting.

Very surprised to read that McLaren went for Ricciardo...I had no idea they tried to get him a couple of years ago. Could be seen as almost a sideways move, but McLaren were "best of the rest" outside the top 3 last season, while Renault seem to be going backwards. Then there was the announcement McLaren would be switching back to Mercedes engines.

That leaves a seat available at Renault...but I doubt Vettel would be tempted by that...even with the knowledge that the major reg changes will be implemented in 2022.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52627900
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Post by Guest Thu 14 May 2020, 10:14 am

dyrewolfe wrote:Welcome to the boards Jeff!

Thanks for the "behind the scenes" insights. It may be mostly opinion and hearsay, but it does help shed some light on why things have panned out the way they have.

Thank you for the welcome Hug

I would like to add a few other opinions on Vettel. I don’t think a return to Red Bull can be discounted. Dr Marko suggestion that Vettel is too expensive is a smokescreen. Vettel has already said money is a motivator, I’d have to take his word for if as he supposedly has a net worth of $200m.

Therefore Red Bull could quite easily low ball Vettel say $3-5m salary and see what he does.

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Post by Guest Thu 14 May 2020, 10:33 am

Only way that unfolds, is if Renault want to pair another French driver with Ocon. They would need Gasly, therefore, allowing Albon to go back to Alpha Tauri, enabling Vettel to partner Verstappen.

I just can’t see that happening. He’s jumped ship from RB when Ricciardo beat him, and he’s jumped ship or been pushed, when LeClerc has beat him. Not sure being bent over by Verstappen does Vettel any favours, and just tarnishes his weakening legacy even more so.

Ricciardo confirmed at McLaren
Sainz confirmed at Ferrari

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Post by Guest Thu 14 May 2020, 10:48 am

I don't really understand the legacy thing. Does Schumacher have a damaged legacy because he joined Mercedes? I'd say no.

Vettel and Ferrari & Alonso and Ferrari didn't work out. Ferrari are a team without structure. Vettel made mistakes but there's very little clue from the team bosses either.

Vettel's relationship at Ferrari soured when he was photographed with Dr Marko and Horner back in 2018. Many 'Tifoso' felt he was betraying the team. Also Vettel has a close relationship with Dr Mateschitz, with the occasional 'flirting' not going down well.

Essentially for Vettel, Red Bull will always be 'home'. Also it's speculated that Kvyat will leave Red Bull to join Haas.

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Post by GSC Thu 14 May 2020, 11:42 am

Vettel and Verstappen (or the old golden boy Vs the current one) doesn't seem like it would end well, but Red Bull have entertained combustible pairings before and they don't really have a wide range of options for the other seat with Albon picking up the 2nd seat by default while TR/AT have 2 demoted RB drivers.
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Post by GSC Thu 14 May 2020, 11:44 am

I also think saying he jumped when Riccardo beat him is a decent bit of spin. The chance to drive for Ferrari was probably a bigger factor
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Post by Guest Thu 14 May 2020, 6:28 pm

I’d say it’s retirement or Mercedes for Vettel. Tbh, I’m not a fan of Vettel, but given the clear #2’s at RB/Ferrari, I’d imagine most F1 fans would be keen on seeing Vettel at Mercedes, even I would, just to add some much needed spice and intrigue. Financially it might be a no-go, depending on Vettel’s demands, but seeing Bottas bent over for four years in a row, and given his contract is also expiring, might just open the door for Vettel.

Given reports that Renault are apparently unwilling to make the same financial mistake they made with that ridiculous $40m deal they gave Ricciardo, that pretty much ends the thought of Vettel or Alonso back at Renault. Bottas on the other hand, would be considerably cheaper.

Looks good
F1 2020 Season - Page 2 <a href=F1 2020 Season - Page 2 24fa4210" />

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Post by GSC Thu 14 May 2020, 7:47 pm

I doubt Mercedes want a 2nd driver who can threaten for the title again and Toto went out of his way to get Ocon a seat.

Gasly to Renault might make sense. RB let Sainz out in a similar situation.
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Post by No name Bertie Thu 14 May 2020, 11:32 pm

I think Red Bull really see their future as being with Max Verstappen and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize that.  What they need is a strong number two that will play fair with Verstappen, accept their number two status, but be good enough to support Verstappen in races, or challenge for the win when Verstappen falters, and gain enough points to finish well in the constructors championship.  At this stage it is not clear whether Albon is the person for that, but he has performed very well as a rookie in his rookie year with all the upheavals he went through.  He has performed solidly in races and shown an aggressive streak.

ps I don't know how contracts are worked out but someone like Vettel would bring in a lot of income from image rights and prestige.
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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 8:38 am

Looks might my personal favourite, Fernando Alonso, will be going back to Renault. According to reports Renault can’t afford the Spaniard star’s $30m salary - so liberty group will pay the difference.

Vettel to Mercedes or Red Bull isn’t as ‘crazy’ to me as is being suggested by the media. With Ferrari now pinning their hopes on LeClerc and Red Bull on Verstappen. Even a lesser version of Vettel will always be superior to Bottas.

We saw when it was Hamilton and Rosberg, two top drivers essentially closes out the other teams.

And as Bertie says Vettel would bring revenue and Mercedes would be able to be billed as ‘we have 10-11 drivers championships’. I’m sure liberty group would love it

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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 9:00 am

I think the sport needs star names, especially in the promotion and rebuilding of the sport, post-Virus, but I just can’t envisage that LM will stump up some cash, given the financial losses they’ve made recently. In that case, the other teams should object or demand partial payment for their drivers salaries, too.

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 15 May 2020, 9:22 am

Just John wrote:Only way that unfolds, is if Renault want to pair another French driver with Ocon. They would need Gasly, therefore, allowing Albon to go back to Alpha Tauri, enabling Vettel to partner Verstappen.

I just can’t see that happening. He’s jumped ship from RB when Ricciardo beat him, and he’s jumped ship or been pushed, when LeClerc has beat him. Not sure being bent over by Verstappen does Vettel any favours, and just tarnishes his weakening legacy even more so.

Ricciardo confirmed at McLaren
Sainz confirmed at Ferrari


I'd have to agree with that. Some fairly complex musical chairs would be required, in order for Vettel to return to RB.

Regardless of what Dietrich Mateschitz or Helmut Marko may have said, Christian Horner has repeatedly stated he is committed to developing and working with younger drivers. They have a future champion in Verstappen in the #1 seat and very decent backup in Albon.

Even if the driver switches occurred, could anyone honestly see Vettel agreeing to be Verstappen's wingman? I also couldn't see them agreeing to give the drivers parity, as they will have seen what happened at Ferrari between Seb and Charles.


GSC wrote:I also think saying he jumped when Riccardo beat him is a decent bit of spin. The chance to drive for Ferrari was probably a bigger factor

Its looking less like spin now that he's leaving Ferrari, having been comprehensively out-performed by another younger driver. Wink Ferrari may be the glamour team of the pit lane, but it was a hell of a gamble to leave the team where he won all his titles.


Jeff Navarro wrote:
Vettel to Mercedes or Red Bull isn’t as ‘crazy’ to me as is being suggested by the media. With Ferrari now pinning their hopes on LeClerc and Red Bull on Verstappen. Even a lesser version of Vettel will always be superior to Bottas.

We saw when it was Hamilton and Rosberg, two top drivers essentially closes out the other teams.

And as Bertie says Vettel would bring revenue and Mercedes would be able to be billed as ‘we have 10-11 drivers championships’. I’m sure liberty group would love it

Have to disagree with that.

You've evidently forgotten all the stress and hassle Mercedes endured during the Hamilton - Rosberg years.

While Hamilton might relish the chance to go up against Vettel in the same car and Seb would almost certainly demand equal billing, so he could fight for the title, Toto Wolff definitely did not enjoy having to deal with the fallout of having 2 drivers fighting for the title.

While Bottas has a lot more average races than good ones, it does mean there is a lot more harmony in the garage. I'm pretty sure they will want to avoid more of this:


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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 9:41 am

There’s two caveats to this debate regarding Vettel ‘running away’ from Red Bull and now Ferrari.

Vettel always envisaged himself going to Ferrari, the Schumacher thing and all that. The allure of Ferrari was always there. So had he beaten Ricciardo in 2014, that move more than likely would’ve still happened somewhere down the line.

One important thing to remember with Vettel and Ferrari was, the German was signed by Stefano Domenicali, but soon after the deal was done the Italian left Ferrari. Subsequently Ferrari had 3 team bosses - Mattiacci, Arrivabene and latterly Binotto. The first two absolutely loved Vettel. But once the late Sergio Marchionne took a greater role - the faith in Vettel was eroded.

It’s worth remembering Marchionne signed LeClerc prior to his death and Binotto worked under Marchionne previously.

Essentially once LeClerc arrived Vettel knew his race was run.

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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 9:47 am

Dyrewolfe - with regards to Hamilton and Rosberg. Whilst I agree that the team was fairly toxic. Hamilton and Rosberg ‘only’ crashed into each other 3 times IIRC - Belgium 2014, Spain 2016 and Austria 2016? Along with Rosberg’s Monaco pole with some dodgy actions. For me Hamilton vs Rosberg was no different to Senna vs Prost. And Mercedes still won all 6 championships.

We need to bear in mind even if Vettel gets ‘equal status’, I feel he’s regressed to it won’t really make any difference. Naturally Vettel is very strong at certain tracks but I don’t think the consistency is the same anymore.

Basically put, in that Mercedes Vettel would take more points from Verstappen and LeClerc

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 15 May 2020, 9:48 am

Just John wrote:I think the sport needs star names, especially in the promotion and rebuilding of the sport, post-Virus, but I just can’t envisage that LM will stump up some cash, given the financial losses they’ve made recently. In that case, the other teams should object or demand partial payment for their drivers salaries, too.

There is definitely that.

Plus I think Alonso will feel he's done his time "slumming it" in the midfield during McLaren's bad run.

I reckon he will want to wait and see how the new regs change things, before angling for another drive...even though time isn't exactly on his side.
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Post by No name Bertie Fri 15 May 2020, 10:24 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:... Vettel and Ferrari & Alonso and Ferrari didn't work out. Ferrari are a team without structure. Vettel made mistakes but there's very little clue from the team bosses either...
With Ross Braun and Schumacher Ferrari must have had structure / a strict regimen imposed on them - so presumably that changed when they left.  I have heard too that Ferrari are more about passion and intuition rather than strict regiment of the Mercedes and Red Bull, but I can't believe that was also the case when Braun / Schumacher were at the helm.
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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 2:54 pm

Silverstone and the FIA have reached an agreement for two races, set to be held behind closed doors on July 26 and August 2. A provisional 19 race calendar as it stands.

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Post by GSC Fri 15 May 2020, 3:18 pm

Dunno how feasible it would be, but running the track in the opposite direction would help keep it fresh
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Post by Guest Fri 15 May 2020, 3:27 pm

Yeah, not a fan of watching back-to-back races at the same venue, especially if conditions are similar on both weekends. But I won’t complain. Think it was Horner who recently rejected the idea of reverse layouts. Safety barriers, and gravel traps would be in the wrong places, and would put drivers at risk. Probably be too costly in order to carry out the essential work too.

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Post by GSC Fri 15 May 2020, 3:56 pm

Wouldn't seem to be a massive problem at Silverstone given the massive amounts of run off at the track even if I see the point.
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Post by dyrewolfe Sat 16 May 2020, 9:56 am

GSC wrote:Wouldn't seem to be a massive problem at Silverstone given the massive amounts of run off at the track even if I see the point.

Well the biggest problem (well, a couple actually) I see with running tracks in reverse is:

1. The cars are set up to deal with corners in a very specific way...suspension, steering etc. is all calibrated to drive the track a certain way. I know this sounds like a very minor point...but F1 is a sport that obsesses over minute details. Entry and exit points might be different, (unless the corner is absolutely symmetrical), levels of grip and even track gradient might be different if you approach it from the opposite direction.

2. By far the biggest issue is that drivers learn the tracks in the conventional way. They drive hundreds of laps, (in simulators and during practice), to the point they could almost do it with their eyes closed. Running the track the other way would completely disrupt that. The twitch reflexes they use to correct steering in the corners, instinctive feel for braking points and just generally memorising where the car needs to be at any given point on the track, speed they should be doing, gear they should be in etc.

3. One other minor but important detail - they'd also have to swap round the pit lane entry & exit points. More work and scope for more confusion.


Agree that 2 races per track isn't exactly ideal, but they are making the best of a bad situation and are likely hoping to just make it to 8 races, so they can claim a proper championship season.
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Post by GSC Mon 18 May 2020, 11:20 am

1. I would argue this changes track to track though in any case.

2. I don't really see this as a negative, might mix up the order a bit and wouldn't take that long to get up to speed.

3. Logistically yeah but neither is on an apex of a corner so I don't think it would be an insurmountable issue.

I don't expect it to happen but would be more entertaining than a repeat GP
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Post by No name Bertie Mon 18 May 2020, 4:09 pm

Of course the danger of having back to back races at the same track, is that both races turn out to be more or less identical and pedestrian with the same cars following each other.  

The only possible difference between the back to back races will be the weather.  If the weather is the same then you would expect the same type of race to recur a week or two afterwards.  

However, beggars can't be choosers - I think most people here would just like to see them back racing (safely of course).

ps: I wonder if there is flexibility in the layout (e.g. adding in or taking out sections of track etc).
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Post by dyrewolfe Tue 19 May 2020, 9:26 am

No name Bertie wrote:Of course the danger of having back to back races at the same track, is that both races turn out to be more or less identical and pedestrian with the same cars following each other.  

The only possible difference between the back to back races will be the weather.  If the weather is the same then you would expect the same type of race to recur a week or two afterwards.  

However, beggars can't be choosers - I think most people here would just like to see them back racing (safely of course).

ps: I wonder if there is flexibility in the layout (e.g. adding in or taking out sections of track etc).


Well given that the races will be held behind closed doors, I don't think they're too worried about races panning out the same way. There's no crowd entertainment to worry about. Don't suppose they're too worried about TV audiences. As long as they're fulfilling their contractual obligation of holding races, they will still get Sky's money.

Would be interesting if they altered the track layout (at circuits where that is possible), but I expect the teams and drivers would object...well some anyway.

I think if ever there was a time to experiment with reverse grids, this would be it...but again I would expect a lot of complaints.


In related news, Flavio Briatore has confirmed Alonso would be interested in returning next season. The Renault seat made available by Ricciardo's departure is the most likely choice, given his previous history with the team.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52682505
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Post by GSC Tue 19 May 2020, 10:25 am

I don't really think reverse grids adds much of anything. You'd just end up with slower cars not really fighting the faster cars anyway to avoid losing time
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Post by No name Bertie Tue 19 May 2020, 12:57 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:Wouldn't seem to be a massive problem at Silverstone given the massive amounts of run off at the track even if I see the point.

Well the biggest problem (well, a couple actually) I see with running tracks in reverse is:

1. ...

2. By far the biggest issue is that drivers learn the tracks in the conventional way. They drive hundreds of laps, (in simulators and during practice), to the point they could almost do it with their eyes closed. Running the track the other way would completely disrupt that. The twitch reflexes they use to correct steering in the corners, instinctive feel for braking points and just generally memorising where the car needs to be at any given point on the track, speed they should be doing, gear they should be in etc.

3. ...

I don't think 2) will really be a significant factor - racing in the reverse direction will be like racing on a new track - all the previously learnt cues will be completely inapplicable - everything will look different as things that appeared on the left from the front would now appear on the right in the rear.  So all the visual cues will be different and it would be like having to learn a new track. (ps but maybe if the car spun around they might be confused in what direction to head off on).

Does anyone know what the actual plans are - are they going to race exactly the same circuit in the forward direction with no changes to circuit layout?
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Post by GSC Tue 19 May 2020, 1:40 pm

Given liberty are making up the costs for the lack of ticket sales I doubt they're going to fund the costs associated with setting up the track to run the opposite direction
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Post by Guest Fri 22 May 2020, 9:32 am

Bottas in talks with Renault for 2021 seat. Mercedes parent group Daimler has reported decided he’s got to go. Seems harsh but that’s motorsports

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Post by Guest Fri 22 May 2020, 9:42 am

Tbh, I thought this would happen. Daimler wanting Vettel is no surprise. Bottas being bent over by Hamilton for four years in a row is enough in many peoples eyes.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 22 May 2020, 10:25 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:Bottas in talks with Renault for 2021 seat. Mercedes parent group Daimler has reported decided he’s got to go. Seems harsh but that’s motorsports
I am not sure that this is a "motorsporting" decision. It would be the parent company interfering with their motorsport division - enforcing a commercial decision by the parent group over it.

As mentioned by John this may be due to the parent group wanting Vettel or it could be for other reasons.

As it stands it seems there is uncertainty regarding Toto Woolf - whether he wants to remain as head of the F1 Mercedes operations. And it seems that Lewis Hamilton's future is also tied in with what Toto Woolf does.

It is unclear whether a Hamilton - Vettel "dream team" will be the best in terms of F1 sporting operations, and whether it can be afforded in terms of driver salaries - although driver salaries lies outside the budget cap - and they both bring in a lot of money in their own rights (image rights & prestige).

Another reason for ditching Bottas may be to introduce a younger challenger. I think George Russell and Lando Norris could be potential next generation stars (to challenge LeClerc & Verstappen), but they are not German (maybe the parent company want Schumacher?), and this is really a decision for the sporting side of the operations.
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Post by Guest Fri 22 May 2020, 10:43 am

No name Bertie wrote:
Jeff Navarro wrote:Bottas in talks with Renault for 2021 seat. Mercedes parent group Daimler has reported decided he’s got to go. Seems harsh but that’s motorsports
I am not sure that this is a "motorsporting" decision.  It would be the parent company interfering with their motorsport division - enforcing a commercial decision by the parent group over it.

As mentioned by John this may be due to the parent group wanting Vettel or it could be for other reasons.

As it stands it seems there is uncertainty regarding Toto Woolf - whether he wants to remain as head of the F1 Mercedes operations.   And it seems that Lewis Hamilton's future is also tied in with what Toto Woolf does.

It is unclear whether a Hamilton - Vettel "dream team" will be the best in terms of F1 sporting operations, and whether it can be afforded in terms of driver salaries - although driver salaries lies outside the budget cap - and they both bring in a lot of money in their own rights (image rights & prestige).

Another reason for ditching Bottas may be to introduce a younger challenger.  I think George Russell and Lando Norris could be potential next generation stars (to challenge LeClerc & Verstappen), but they are not German (maybe the parent company want Schumacher?), and this is really a decision for the sporting side of the operations.
With regards to Mick Schumacher, he has a deal in place to join Alfa Romeo in 2021. The only issue with this deal is that it was based on the principle of the rule changes and Raikonnen’s supposed retirement. With the rule change being delayed it’s undecided what Ferrari plan to do with Mick. But it’s 100% that Schumacher will not be going to Mercedes anytime soon.

By punting Bottas out, I was under the impression he was managed by Toto Wolff - please correct if this is false - it’s rather obvious that Mercedes will sign Vettel. Aside from Daimler wanting Vettel, German sports minister has requested a ‘solution’ for Vettel. IIRC if Vettel quits there will no German drivers for the first tine in 25 years. Bitter pill to swallow for the powerhouse nation of automobiles.

I don’t see Russell at Mercedes unless Hamilton retires. Especially as they could’ve promoted him in 2020.

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