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F1 2020 Season

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 07 Feb 2020, 11:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017

F1 2020 Season - Page 17 _110799339_haas_car


Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...
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Post by GSC on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 6:22 pm

I mean if Jean Todt and Ross Brawn are giving Ferrari preferential treatment imagine how bad they'd be without them
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Post by Just John on Thu 24 Sep 2020, 9:40 pm

I don’t like it, but F1 is such a unique, sporting and political environment, that it really can only be run and understood, by people who have a keen understanding of it, and have motorsport in their DNA. Chase Carey was winging it, and, therefore, I’m not surprised he’s palmed the job off to someone with more experience.

I understand the dislike of it being another ex-Ferrari man though, especially after the fishy nature of Jean Todt’s handling of the Ferrari engine scandal. We know they cheated, but it was all covered up.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 25 Sep 2020, 4:55 pm

GSC wrote:I mean if Jean Todt and Ross Brawn are giving Ferrari preferential treatment imagine how bad they'd be without them

Well not on the track...obviously (duh).

I mean when it comes to the politics and financial aspects of the sport. Continuing to let them have the power to veto decisions they don't like, for example.

Also FYI Ross Brawn is purely concerned with the engineering aspects...he's been heading up the working group that came up with the regs for 2021 (now 2022).
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Post by Just John on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 9:17 am

Mick Schumacher wins in Russia. Great drive, and extends his championship lead.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 9:19 am

Mick Schumacher powers to victory in Sochi feature race. Red Bull’s Yuki Tsunoda second and Ferrari’s Callum Illot third. Another horror show for Robert Schwartzman and his hopes are evaporating.
Schumacher 186pts
Illot 168pts
Seems like it will be between the two Ferrari boys.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 9:53 am

Renault approached Haas to switch from Ferrari engines to Renault engines. Unsurprisingly it was promptly rejected. Gene Haas has been associated with Ferrari for nearly 3 decades and he’s not that petty to ditch the relationship so quickly. Additionally Haas to receive further benefits when Illot joins the team

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 1:42 pm

Oof! Vettel crashes in Q2. Session red flagged. Leclerc was right behind him and only just avoided the wreck.

Hamilton only has 2 minutes when it restarts to get into Q3.

Mercedes looking a bit out of sorts with both Lewis and Valtteri having lap times scrubbed due to exceeding track limits.


EDIT:
--------

Gasly backed up a bunch of cars out of the pit lane - almost cost some drivers the chance of getting a lap in. Hamilton made it over the line by the skin of his teeth (1.25 seconds).

Well Lewis found his mojo pretty quickly:

STARTING GRID (Top 10)
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Bottas
4. Perez
5. Ricciardo
6. Sainz
7. Ocon
8. Norris
9. Gasly
10. Albon

Would love it if Max can have a real go at Lewis. Expecting a late-braking contest into the first corner.


Last edited by dyrewolfe on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Just John on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 2:17 pm

Hamilton pole. Normal service resumed for Albon back in 10th, while Max puts it on the front row. Bottas in third. Perez comfortably out-qualifying Stroll now.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 4:52 pm

I’m starting to question what is the purpose of Valterri Bottas. All this bravado “I’ve spent the off season with Mika Hakkinen and it’s given me new belief”.
Well he was clearly talking nonsense as Bottas can’t even out qualify a Red Bull on his ‘favourite track’.
I don’t mean to be insulting but Bottas wouldn’t win a championship even if Hamilton retired.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 5:59 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:I’m starting to question what is the purpose of Valterri Bottas. All this bravado “I’ve spent the off season with Mika Hakkinen and it’s given me new belief”.
Well he was clearly talking nonsense as Bottas can’t even out qualify a Red Bull on his ‘favourite track’.
I don’t mean to be insulting but Bottas wouldn’t win a championship even if Hamilton retired.

But could the same not be said if you put Leclerc and Vettel into Mercs as in it would not be Vettel winning the title? Hamilton is just a far better driver than Bottas - no secret there and no disgrace either. The question is what do Mercedes do about it? Well they don't need to do anything as they are stacking up drivers and constructors championships year after year. The only way/time I see any change is if Hamilton retires or Bottas moves on but why would he?
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:16 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jeff Navarro wrote:I’m starting to question what is the purpose of Valterri Bottas. All this bravado “I’ve spent the off season with Mika Hakkinen and it’s given me new belief”.
Well he was clearly talking nonsense as Bottas can’t even out qualify a Red Bull on his ‘favourite track’.
I don’t mean to be insulting but Bottas wouldn’t win a championship even if Hamilton retired.

But could the same not be said if you put Leclerc and Vettel into Mercs as in it would not be Vettel winning the title? Hamilton is just a far better driver than Bottas - no secret there and no disgrace either. The question is what do Mercedes do about it? Well they don't need to do anything as they are stacking up drivers and constructors championships year after year. The only way/time I see any change is if Hamilton retires or Bottas moves on but why would he?
I think we all agree Bottas will never reach the levels of really great drivers but he must be embarrassed how Verstappen in an inferior car has his number. Had Verstappen not had three engine failures he’d be clear of Bottas in the championship - as brilliant as the Dutchman is, it’s woeful for Bottas.

Hamilton will supposedly retire at the end of 2021 and early rumours suggest Mercedes will go for Verstappen and Russell. Bottas will be left in the midfield as the other big teams won’t sign him.

You only have to look at Rosberg, he was able to keep Hamilton honest. Bottas can’t do that.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 6:56 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Jeff Navarro wrote:I’m starting to question what is the purpose of Valterri Bottas. All this bravado “I’ve spent the off season with Mika Hakkinen and it’s given me new belief”.
Well he was clearly talking nonsense as Bottas can’t even out qualify a Red Bull on his ‘favourite track’.
I don’t mean to be insulting but Bottas wouldn’t win a championship even if Hamilton retired.

But could the same not be said if you put Leclerc and Vettel into Mercs as in it would not be Vettel winning the title? Hamilton is just a far better driver than Bottas - no secret there and no disgrace either. The question is what do Mercedes do about it? Well they don't need to do anything as they are stacking up drivers and constructors championships year after year. The only way/time I see any change is if Hamilton retires or Bottas moves on but why would he?
I think we all agree Bottas will never reach the levels of really great drivers but he must be embarrassed how Verstappen in an inferior car has his number. Had Verstappen not had three engine failures he’d be clear of Bottas in the championship - as brilliant as the Dutchman is, it’s woeful for Bottas.

Hamilton will supposedly retire at the end of 2021 and early rumours suggest Mercedes will go for Verstappen and Russell. Bottas will be left in the midfield as the other big teams won’t sign him.

You only have to look at Rosberg, he was able to keep Hamilton honest. Bottas can’t do that.

Like I said though the only ones who can change all of that are Bottas and Mercedes. Mercedes have no real motivation to change anything since they are mopping up all the titles. And Bottas simply is not as good as Hamilton to be able to change it. It happens. Russell is consistently better than Latifi. Gasly is consistently better than Kyvatt. Leclerc consistently better than Vettel. Verstappen is consistently better than Albon. So you see that is half of the teams (at least) on the grid who have one driver better than his team-mate. You could add other teams into that mix too but that is more of a case for debate.
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 7:23 pm

The purpose of Bottas is to not challenge Hamilton and hoover up enough podiums to make the constructors safe.

Added to that the team boss is his manager.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 7:30 pm

GSC wrote:The purpose of Bottas is to not challenge Hamilton and hoover up enough podiums to make the constructors safe.

Added to that the team boss is his manager.

Nah there has been odd occasions where he has out-qualified Hamilton and beat him in races. Its not like the Schumacher-Barichello relationship - remember when he pulled over on the winning line to let Schumacher win. He is just not consistent enough or willing to push real hard taking risks and it shows.
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 7:38 pm

When Hamilton isn't on it and/or Bottas has an inspired weekend he can beat him yeah. He won't do it enough times over 20 races for it to matter much though. Mercedes don't want another Rosberg/Hamilton fight, they want a compliant #2, whether that takes the form of pulling over on the line or tamely finishing 20 seconds off the pace and not racing Lewis hard (Silverstone)
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 7:44 pm

GSC wrote:When Hamilton isn't on it and/or Bottas has an inspired weekend he can beat him yeah. He won't do it enough times over 20 races for it to matter much though. Mercedes don't want another Rosberg/Hamilton fight, they want a compliant #2, whether that takes the form of pulling over on the line or tamely finishing 20 seconds off the pace and not racing Lewis hard (Silverstone)

That is a fault with Bottas though - not Mercedes. I cannot remember too well but he got the better start to this season and you cannot tell me Mercedes were telling him to move over when he led the Championship. He just lacks the consistency and out-and-out speed of Hamilton. Its no disgrace. It happens. As it does in every sport ever played.
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 8:29 pm

The "fault" is that Mercedes want a Bottas rather than a legitimate challenger.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 9:29 pm

GSC wrote:The "fault" is that Mercedes want a Bottas rather than a legitimate challenger.

Is it?

Ferrari have always went along that road. Red Bull had big problems in the past with two drivers fighting for supremacy that damaged them. Williams in their heady days also had favoured drivers with Damon Hill. All teams are interested in is winning both titles. Mercedes have done that in recent years - mission accomplished.
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Post by GSC on Sat 26 Sep 2020, 9:59 pm

That's why it's in quote marks, I don't think we're disagreeing here lol
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 10:42 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:I’m starting to question what is the purpose of Valterri Bottas. All this bravado “I’ve spent the off season with Mika Hakkinen and it’s given me new belief”.
Well he was clearly talking nonsense as Bottas can’t even out qualify a Red Bull on his ‘favourite track’.
I don’t mean to be insulting but Bottas wouldn’t win a championship even if Hamilton retired.

Sort of agree with you there. Any self-belief he had at the start of the season would have evaporated after just a few races, once it became clear Lewis was going to dominate this season.

But then we are assuming that the team and race strategies are set up to give both drivers equal opportunity to win (as Toto likes to say). The other thing is, as CaledonianCraig said, Bottas just isn't good enough to live with Hamilton...which is no disgrace.

Personally I think Toto's spiel is just good PR. Mercedes is Hamilton's team and Bottas is just there to pick up podiums.

But then there has been no driver on the grid for the last few years...with the possible exception of Verstappen...who could give Lewis a real fight.

Even if they were team mates, I suspect Hamilton would still beat him through experience, his precise and clinical approach to driving and his sheer knack of delivering performances when it matters. Max, although quick and one of the best wheel to wheel racers around, is still a little rough around the edges IMO. Over the course of a season, I'd expect Hamilton's extra quality to shine through.

That said, it is somewhat embarrassing to get out-qualified by a Red Bull which (supposedly) lack the same power as Mercedes...and also doesn't have the benefit of the DAS system.

Its not really a problem as long as Hamilton continues to dominate. But if / when he leaves, I suspect Bottas will be gone as well.


GSC wrote:
When Hamilton isn't on it and/or Bottas has an inspired weekend he can beat him yeah. He won't do it enough times over 20 races for it to matter much though. Mercedes don't want another Rosberg/Hamilton fight, they want a compliant #2, whether that takes the form of pulling over on the line or tamely finishing 20 seconds off the pace and not racing Lewis hard (Silverstone)

Pretty much hit the nail on the head right there.

Although Bottas probably isn't going to have a chance to "do a Barrichello". Even if he did, the team would rather pull him in for an unscheduled pit stop or something, after the furore over what Rubens did.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 11:32 am

Ferrari has changed pretty much everything not power unit related on Vettel’s car, following yesterday’s crash.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 11:32 am

Albon and Lafiti both with gearbox penalties

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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 11:46 am

Hamilton under investigation for an illegal practice start

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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:01 pm

Eh, seems minor but have to be consistent in application
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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:15 pm

Luck turning against Stroll now

Sainz out
Stroll out

Safety car deployed

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Post by Marky on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:22 pm

Stroll punted into the wall after a great start. Such a shame.

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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:30 pm

5 second timed penalty for Hamilton. No actually, they are punishing him twice. It’s a 10 second penalty.

Xmas for Bottas

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:36 pm

Someone want to give me an explanation please? Two pens for one infringement?

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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:40 pm

Apparently there were two incidents. It is what it is. All very petty, to me.

You’d imagine Bottas gets a gifted win from here.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 12:42 pm

If Bottas can’t win from here he can’t win from anywhere

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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 1:40 pm

A comfortable win for Bottas, albeit gifted. Verstappen in second and Hamilton in third. Good drive from Perez in 4th, who’s luck has turned and has pretty much reduced the points deficit he had to Stroll in the WDC. Super drive from Leclerc too in 6th. Terrible day for McLaren. Unsurprisingly, normal service resumed for Albon.

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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 1:51 pm

At the end of the day rules are rules. Can't choose when to selectively apply them, particularly when it's a safety regulation
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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 1:55 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Someone want to give me an explanation please? Two pens for one infringement?
he did 2 starts I think
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:00 pm

Bottas’ “whom it may concern” celebration is a bit meh

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:01 pm

Still a fairly pedestrian race, despite the potential for some real excitement, after Hamilton managed to "beat himself" incurring 2 5-second penalties for practice starts in unauthorised places.

Trouble-free win for Bottas. Verstappen never got close enough to really challenge and Hamilton looked like he was instructed to settle for 3rd after rapidly making his way back up the placings (team concerned about engine reliability?).

Guess Max will be somewhat frustrated he couldn't capitalise on a great opportunity to take the win, but I'm sure the team will be happy enough. Another stinker for poor old Alex...the less said the better. At least he picked up a point today.

Great drive by Perez...he's really putting himself in the shop window for the end of the season. Reckon they will come to regret letting him go.

Another good weekend for Renault...they really seem to be making good progress now. Looking more like Ricciardo will be taking a backwards step when he joins McLaren.

Valiant effort by Leclerc, bringing his Ferrari home in 6th. He really deserves a decent car under him. Lets hope the team can start delivering next season.

Good day for Alpha Tauri with both cars finishing in the points.

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Bottas’ “whom it may concern” celebration is a bit meh

Yep - a bit cringeworthy this time. Its not as though he really had to fight for it.
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Post by Just John on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:03 pm

Those radio messages when he wins are embarrassing and cringy.

You’ve inherited a win, mate. Hamilton more concerned about those penalty points on his licence, than the WDC gap being down to 44.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:10 pm

Just John wrote:Those radio messages when he wins are embarrassing and cringy.

You’ve inherited a win, mate. Hamilton more concerned about those penalty points on his licence, than the WDC gap being down to 44.
Penalty points?

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:25 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Just John wrote:Those radio messages when he wins are embarrassing and cringy.

You’ve inherited a win, mate. Hamilton more concerned about those penalty points on his licence, than the WDC gap being down to 44.
Penalty points?

Yes two penalty points added to his Super License. He moves onto 10 points on that and if he earns two more for an infringement he will be banned for a race.

Aside from the first lap crashes it was all a bit of a meh race. The best battles were in mid-division for the last few points positions.

Bottas did what he had to do but it proves nothing.
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:28 pm

Seems odd you get a pen that takes a win away then you get points on the license.

Anyway I agree Sochi is a bland track.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:51 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Seems odd you get a pen that takes a win away then you get points on the license.

Anyway I agree Sochi is a bland track.

I am not sure how the penalty points system works - perhaps because he had the two infringements over the race weekend is when points are added.
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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 4:04 pm

The points go on regardless of whether you got penalised mid race,it's for repeat offenders
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Post by GSC on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 5:28 pm

Anyway they've now been rescinded because Mercedes were deemed culpable
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 27 Sep 2020, 9:09 pm

GSC wrote:Anyway they've now been rescinded because Mercedes were deemed culpable

Bet they were only too happy to accept that whopping €25,000 fine instead.
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 8:02 am

Think sanity prevailed with the removal of those penalty points for Hamilton. Imagine the PR disaster had Hamilton subsequently received a ban. Especially if that had a knock on effect in championship.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 11:00 am

Interesting video here that goes over the incoming changes for 2021:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-JKrs0rrc
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Post by GSC on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:29 pm

To be fair to Stroll, he got a mega start and ended up behind Perez before LeClerc tagged him and sent him into the wall.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 3:48 pm

GSC wrote:To be fair to Stroll, he got a mega start and ended up behind Perez before LeClerc tagged him and sent him into the wall.

Screwed by the team in Mugello and qualifying here with car failures, and screwed by inferior drivers after a storming start despite those team issues here.

If that had happened to Perez I'm sure we'd be hearing the conspiracy theorists out in force.
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F1 2020 Season - Page 17 Empty Re: F1 2020 Season

Post by Just John on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:20 pm

I have to credit Stroll with his starts, and without stats at hand, he must be leading the charts on ‘most places gained’, on lap 1 this season.

As for the rest, the luck has started to go against the Canadian now. Hasn’t helped himself by the fact he’s been out-qualified by his teammate at the last six Grand Prix, either. Perez has cut that sizeable deficit to one point now, and you’d imagine the Mexican’s experience and consistency, will see him ease away from Stroll in their inter-team battle as the season draws to a conclusion. Be a shame for Sergio to end up at Haas, but not entirely sure where else he ends up, unless RB come calling.

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Post by Marky on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 5:26 pm

You just know that if Stroll had punted Leclerc into the wall, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

But no criticism of Golden Boy Charles I see, just how well he did to get 6th, and ignoring how he should have gotten a penalty for what he did.

At least Charles only smashed somebody into the wall. Didn't do anything really unsafe, like a practice start in the wrong place with nobody around him...

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Post by GSC on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 6:42 pm

Not completely off base (not the Hamilton bit, the part about where you are allowed to stop on an active race track exists for obvious reason)
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