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Wilder v Fury Part Two

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Post by rapidringsroad on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 2:21 am

First topic message reminder :

Anyone interested in this fight or have they lost interest in boxing altogether? I'm keen to hear the views of posters on this Forum, as I'm sure there will be various predictions to how the fight will end. My feelings are, even though I thought Fury won their first encounter, I think Wilder will think "he didn't hurt me last time so he won't hurt this time" and go all out for a knockout. What do the rest of you think?

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 1:38 pm

He scored the round Fury had a point deducted 9-9, I remember there being a knockdown in that round so don't how he managed that.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:36 pm

Seems to be kicking off with Whyte and Hearn.....

Whyte is number 1 contender and Hearn is talking about Joshua v Fury in the summer...

Have to feel sorry for Dillian as he has fought more contenders than anyone else recently to get a shot...Bit of a conflict of interest.

Have time for Mr Whyte..

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Post by Eyetoldyouso on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:37 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:He scored the round Fury had a point deducted 9-9, I remember there being a knockdown in that round so don't how he managed that.

I think that Fury had a point deducted for hitting on the break. Not 100% certain.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Seems to be kicking off with Whyte and Hearn.....

Whyte is number 1 contender and Hearn is talking about Joshua v Fury in the summer...

Have to feel sorry for Dillian as he has fought more contenders than anyone else recently to get a shot...Bit of a conflict of interest.

Have time for Mr Whyte..

In a perfect world you'd have Whyte fight Fury, AJ fight Pulev then the winners face off for the undisputed title. It won't happen however as Dillian is too much of a risk.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:49 pm

Eyetoldyouso - I know why Fury had a point deducted, but can't understand why it wasn't a 9-8 round.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:54 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:Eyetoldyouso - I know why Fury had a point deducted, but can't understand why it wasn't a 9-8 round.

Feldman gave Wilder the 2nd round.

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 10:26 pm

Not bad form the judges then. Disagree with the cumulutive punching power. Wilder has probably the hardest single punch to grace the ring. It has been (apart from Fury) a game changer and anyone it's hit has been finished. Fury took it, i think he can take AJ's too and i think on this showing, Fury walks it.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 11:36 pm

Deontay Wilder blames ring entrance costume for his loss to Tyson Fury and WILL be taking the third fight:

“He didn’t hurt me at all, but the simple fact is my uniform was way too heavy for me. I didn’t have no legs from the beginning of the fight… I didn’t think it was going to be that heavy. It weighed 40lbs with the helmet and all the batteries.”

Source: YahooSports
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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 11:43 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Not bad form the judges then. Disagree with the cumulutive punching power. Wilder has probably the hardest single punch to grace the ring. It has been (apart from Fury) a game changer and anyone it's hit has been finished. Fury took it, i think he can take AJ's too and i think on this showing, Fury walks it.

You've completely missed the point of cumulative punching there.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 12:05 am

PaulHv2 wrote:Deontay Wilder blames ring entrance costume for his loss to Tyson Fury and WILL be taking the third fight:

“He didn’t hurt me at all, but the simple fact is my uniform was way too heavy for me. I didn’t have no legs from the beginning of the fight… I didn’t think it was going to be that heavy. It weighed 40lbs with the helmet and all the batteries.”

Source: YahooSports

Quite possibly the worst excuse of all time. A third fight would be pointless.

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 2:49 am

This is what Deontay Wilder told ESPN - see link below.  Despite the excuses the key take home message is that Deontay Wilder will take the third fight. Bob Arum says he needs a formal reply from Deontay's team within 25 days following the fight for the third fight to go ahead, and that the third fight has to take place in America by July 18, but could be delayed until the autumn.

Among the things Wilder is reported to have said is that Tyson Fury should have been disqualified because he was hitting him with rabbit punches all night long, including the first knockdown, as well as punching him after the break.
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/28775487/deontay-wilder-confirms-third-tyson-fury-fight-says-40-pound-costume-wore-legs

Of course the last time Tyson Fury had such a victory - beating Wladimir Klitschko, he went into a bout of depression and didn't box again for nearly three years.

ps: Tyson Fury's father said he now wants his son to retire because he has nothing left to prove. Tyson Fury said after his win that he will take the rematch then fight Joshua if it can be arranged. He said last year that he would have three fights in 2020 and retire. I think his ESPN deal is for another two fights.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 10:19 am

Wilder is coming across as a spoilt brat, blaming Breland for stopping the fight because as a 'warrior' he wanted to continue.

It's such an over rated word in boxing, guys like Lamotta, Hagler and Chuvalo were warriors.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 2:10 pm

Wilder's suggestion that his ring walk outfit sapped all the energy in his legs is laughable. Does he realise how ridiculous that sounds? Fact is he got beaten up quite badly and has gone looking for any excuse to make himself feel better. Fury figured him to be a bully who couldn't fight on the back foot and exposed him.

I know how discombobulating that a blow to the ear can be - I once got hit square in the ear by a shuttlecock smash and I was all over the place for about 15 minutes. If that was a 270-odd bloke punching me I can see who bad that would be. Thing is though, Wilder's a boxer and should be far more used to having to block shots like that. He looked out of ideas after the first 1 1/2 minutes. I am no fan of Fury's but he did exactly what he said he would. Wilder's cloak of invincibility, like Joshua's, has gone for good.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 2:26 pm

Wilder suffering the fate all Boxers suffer from...

Hero to Zero....

Stiverne twice....Ortiz twice...Fury draw and a lengthy reign puts him among the Thomas.. Berwick...Tubbs...Page...Weaver parade....Which is respectable..

Wilder is limited...

I admire fighters that get the most out of their potential...Like that Steve Robinson kid from years ago...

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Post by PaulHv2 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 3:55 pm

Don't think many have changed their tune from before the fight Truss, most, if not everyone, have always said he's limited but has the equaliser through his power but once that was taken away he had as much skills as a novice.
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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 3:59 pm

But isn't that the main thing with any type of "celebrity"? Your light burns brightly and in all but a few cases, goes out quite quickly. Wilder has certainly made a name for himself as a hard hitter and a bit of a personality. Hero to Zero is part of championship boxing.

When a fighter's invincibility is taken from them, they very rarely reach the top step again. Hamed for example, fought once more (not brilliantly) and then gave it all up.

Whilst we can't deny that Wilder made several defences, he didn't do it against the top opposition. His ability and achievement are not in question, but Ortiz and Fury aside, his opponents were a little limited. Duhaupas? Szpilka? Arreola? Shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 - any of them. I always wanted to see what would happen if Wilder went up against someone who would happily hit him back and control the centre of the ring and now I know.

I know it's the easiest thing to pull a fighter's resume to bits, but if we didn't do that we'd all be celebrating the likes of Brian Nielsen.

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 4:34 pm

I am interested in the claim that the first knockdown was a rabbit punch.  Some respected boxing experts have said it was including some professional boxers.  The video footage appears to show that the punch hit the back of Deontay's head but I haven't seen anything conclusive (there needs to be a frame by frame breakdown).  Deontay falls as if he was pushed over or if there was a delayed reaction.  However, he didn't look like he had been concussed - he just looked shocked and angry turning his look towards the referee.

As far as the video evidence - it seems that while Tyson Fury was throwing the right hook, Deontay Wilder was turning his head and moving towards Fury, effectively moving the back of his head towards the oncoming punch, so if it was a back of the head punch I can't see that it was intentional - Deontay turned the back of his head towards the punch.

The only penalty I can see that would have been possible if the punch had been deemed to hit the back of the head - is a no knockdown, and recovery time.

Interestingly there is youtube video of Deontay's fight with Ortiz that shows that Deontay was slapping Ortiz with the palms of his gloves and rabbit punching him to the back of the head all night long without any punishment.  This might be one of the reasons why many claim that Deontay has no boxing skills and why he appears wild and frenetic.  He slaps, he rabbit punches and he has the devastating single punch.  Maybe Deontay himself needs to be banned until he learns to punch properly (too many windmill slaps and rabbit punches).  It is like illegal deliveries in Cricket. He seems to use his arms like a club.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpl08_h9_U

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 4:50 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:But isn't that the main thing with any type of "celebrity"? Your light burns brightly and in all but a few cases, goes out quite quickly. Wilder has certainly made a name for himself as a hard hitter and a bit of a personality. Hero to Zero is part of championship boxing.

When a fighter's invincibility is taken from them, they very rarely reach the top step again. Hamed for example, fought once more (not brilliantly) and then gave it all up.

Whilst we can't deny that Wilder made several defences, he didn't do it against the top opposition. His ability and achievement are not in question, but Ortiz and Fury aside, his opponents were a little limited. Duhaupas? Szpilka? Arreola? Shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 - any of them. I always wanted to see what would happen if Wilder went up against someone who would happily hit him back and control the centre of the ring and now I know.

I know it's the easiest thing to pull a fighter's resume to bits, but if we didn't do that we'd all be celebrating the likes of Brian Nielsen.

Why I put him in the Page...Weaver...Thomas category...Not a great section.

Some ordinary defences plus some longevity..

Was Haye a great win for Wlad ???...Bellew slapped him twice...

Sanders for me was the best guy he fought..Embarrassed him....Got big brother to sort him out..

But Wlad does belong with the top heavies in fairness.

I think Ortiz beats Chisora....So Wilder moves above Haye into the Page section.

Just an opinion.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 4:52 pm

Bellew beat Haye many years and many injuries later.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 5:01 pm

Should never have lost to a straight up light heavy like Bellew..

Spinks never would have lost to a stiff like Bellew even with his crap knees...

Ortiz would have beaten the Haye that fought Harrison/Chisora.

Cheers...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 5:52 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Should never have lost to a straight up light heavy like Bellew..

Spinks never would have lost to a stiff like Bellew even with his crap knees...

Ortiz would have beaten the Haye that fought Harrison/Chisora.

Cheers...

Yeah you might be right, not being able to move around the ring isn't a big deal.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 9:39 am

Ken Bayless should be allowed to ref a big fight ever again?

There not even subtle anymore these bent yank officials. Same gameplan as Cortez in the Hatton Mayweather fight. Break the action as soon as Fury gets close try to make out Fury’s done something wrong every time there’s a clinch. We know the routine. How badly did he want Wilder to win?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 11:26 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Should never have lost to a straight up light heavy like Bellew..

Spinks never would have lost to a stiff like Bellew even with his crap knees...

Ortiz would have beaten the Haye that fought Harrison/Chisora.

Cheers...

Yeah you might be right, not being able to move around the ring isn't a big deal.

Yawn..

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 11:44 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Ken Bayless should be allowed to ref a big fight ever again?

There not even subtle anymore these bent yank officials. Same gameplan as Cortez in the Hatton Mayweather fight. Break the action as soon as Fury gets close try to make out Fury’s done something wrong every time there’s a clinch. We know the routine. How badly did he want Wilder to win?

I must remember the Hatton fight much differently to you; Mayweather was beating him up on the inside and Hatton was the one spoiling.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Ken Bayless should be allowed to ref a big fight ever again?

There not even subtle anymore these bent yank officials. Same gameplan as Cortez in the Hatton Mayweather fight. Break the action as soon as Fury gets close try to make out Fury’s done something wrong every time there’s a clinch. We know the routine. How badly did he want Wilder to win?

Yep....Ian John Lewis....and the Charlie that refereed Froch v Groves should referee instead....

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 11:58 am

Let em fight on the inside ffs and stop ruining fights

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 11:59 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Let em fight on the inside ffs and stop ruining fights

Are you just repeating what you've read elsewhere again Herman?

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 1:14 pm

Such a cynical job from Bayless that’s what the sports become in America its all about the money

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 26 Feb 2020, 1:32 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Such a cynical job from Bayless that’s what the sports become in America its all about the money

Much better when the sport was run by the mob with boxers throwing fights for money and title shots.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 9:18 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Such a cynical job from Bayless that’s what the sports become in America its all about the money

Much better when the sport was run by the mob with boxers throwing fights for money and title shots.

laughing

Yeah, that was a weird opinion considering the history of boxing. Don King didn't like money neither.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 10:41 am

Obvious Bayless had a gameplan he knew Fury weight would tire Wilder out in clinches he was obsessed with breaking them up from the opening

The scoring’s bad enough in boxing but what can the sport do to ensure neutral referees?

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 10:49 am

I hate this attitude that we should accept bad judging/refereeing etc because it happens elsewhere as well (and no not a dig at you Truss ;-) hope your well btw). It's about time they started getting called out more and asked to explain they're actions when it comes to certain things. The points deduction looked ridiculous to me and Bayliss did seem to be giving Wilder every opportunity to 'look' better. At least the judges cards were pretty decent though (and it was 3 yankee judges as well).

Start getting the judges to explain they're decisions on why they gave a close fight to a certain fighter or if it looks terribly corrupt (Canelo/Mayweather) get them to stand there and explain to the press WHY they thought the fight went a certain way.

Ahhhh the days of the mob, used to justify anything you disagree with these days (would you rather go back to them days????) how about we'd just like to see it fair across the board, boxing costs fans a lot of money whether yourattending or it's PPV (especially America) so they should be given at least a bit of fairness.

And whilst I agree with you Hermy, it's not just in America and it's not just the big fights it's across the board and everywhere from the smallest hall show to the biggest arena

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 10:54 am

Derbymanc wrote:IAhhhh the days of the mob, used to justify anything you disagree with these days (would you rather go back to them days????) how about we'd just like to see it fair across the board, boxing costs fans a lot of money whether yourattending or it's PPV (especially America) so they should be given at least a bit of fairness.

If people are going to imply that it is an issue that has suddenly arisen in America it is worth pointing out to people how wrong they are. Judging is terrible in boxing in general but the hyperbole that certain refs in certain countries are worse is pathetic.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 11:56 am

The refereeing in America in big fights is definitely becoming a little bit of an issue. Weeks, Cortez(thankfully retired,) Bayless spring to mind. Any others I’ve missed?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 12:04 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:The refereeing in America in big fights is definitely becoming a little bit of an issue. Weeks, Cortez(thankfully retired,) Bayless spring to mind. Any others I’ve missed?

How about Ian John Lewis, Howard Foster or even Marcus McDonnell?

...awaits a non reply.

Let us not forget that Terry O'Connor had Tyson Fury winning 8 rounds in his first fight with John McDermott.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 3:10 pm

The latest conspiracy theory to come out is that Fury didn’t have his right glove on correctly. Video footage shows the right glove flicking as if the first is located in the wrist area, fair few are jumping on the band wagon.
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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 4:47 pm

PaulHv2 wrote:The latest conspiracy theory to come out is that Fury didn’t have his right glove on correctly. Video footage shows the right glove flicking as if the first is located in the wrist area, fair few are jumping on the band wagon.
It is easier to sell the third fight if the second fight was cast as Tyson Fury cheating, Deontay Wilder being handicapped by weakened legs due to wearing a heavy costume, and Deontay Wilder being cheated by both his corner man and the referee. Wilder says Tyson's punches didn't hurt him, that the bleeding from his mouth and ear were from minor cuts, that he would have knocked Tyson out in the later rounds if he had been allowed to box on.

Tyson Fury himself is likely to retire after two more fights. He himself has made no secret of his plans to retire. Sugar Hill and Andy Lee of the Kronk gym would like to work with him for longer than the seven weeks they had with him for the Deontay Wilder second fight. They reckon they can significantly add to Fury's skill set.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Sat 29 Feb 2020, 1:38 pm

Duty281 wrote:I read it was 59/52 on two scorecards, and 58-53 on a third, all in favour of Fury (of course).

Not sure what round they could have scored to Wilder

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 03 Mar 2020, 11:24 am

Poor Wilder, I hope he gets better soon
https://www.thesportrag.com/single-post/Deontay-Wilder-in-hospital-after-trying-on-Canada-Goose-coat


Seriously though I think he's lost a hell of a lot of respect over this (although still not as much as Haye :-)

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 03 Mar 2020, 4:49 pm

Whyte facing Povetkin in May, he's been a mandatory for what seems like years but continues to fight respectable opponents.

Chisora*2, Helenius, Rivas, Browne, Parker and Wach is more than deserving of a world title shot.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue 03 Mar 2020, 8:36 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Whyte facing Povetkin in May, he's been a mandatory for what seems like years but continues to fight respectable opponents.

Chisora*2, Helenius, Rivas, Browne, Parker and Wach is more than deserving of a world title shot.

Fury aside, it's better than Wilder's entire resume....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 12:03 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Whyte facing Povetkin in May, he's been a mandatory for what seems like years but continues to fight respectable opponents.

Chisora*2, Helenius, Rivas, Browne, Parker and Wach is more than deserving of a world title shot.

Fury aside, it's better than Wilder's entire resume....

Ortiz beats all of them including Whyte........but Whyte has been shafted and looks like he will get shafted by his promoter over a title shot..

Whyte v Povetkin PPV ?????......I remember when Hearn said Froch v Kessler was a one off...Wrote back then if people buy it it will be a slippery slope...

£20 isn't a lot of money but principles are principles.....PPV should be for PPV talent..

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Wilder v Fury Part Two - Page 2 Empty Re: Wilder v Fury Part Two

Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 12:57 pm

I'd take Whyte over Ortiz myself, not a lot in it.

Soul Requiem

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Wilder v Fury Part Two - Page 2 Empty Re: Wilder v Fury Part Two

Post by Muscular-mouse on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 9:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Mr Bounce wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Whyte facing Povetkin in May, he's been a mandatory for what seems like years but continues to fight respectable opponents.

Chisora*2, Helenius, Rivas, Browne, Parker and Wach is more than deserving of a world title shot.

Fury aside, it's better than Wilder's entire resume....

Ortiz beats all of them including Whyte........but Whyte has been shafted and looks like he will get shafted by his promoter over a title shot..

Whyte v Povetkin PPV ?????......I remember when Hearn said Froch v Kessler was a one off...Wrote back then if people buy it it will be a slippery slope...

£20 isn't a lot of money but principles are principles.....PPV should be for PPV talent..

The PPV numbers will surely be terrible for this.

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Wilder v Fury Part Two - Page 2 Empty Re: Wilder v Fury Part Two

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