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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by dynamark Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

I suppose it sort of makes sense with the Dyson effort because they just have to switch to blow.
Hope it works.
The self employed will have to adjust in future and get a bit closer to the NI and paye system.It has always been a bit unwritten that you can limit your contributions somewhat as self employed in the building trade and others but a big part of the economy. Again this may close a few gaps

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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:39 am

Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".
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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:41 am

Super

There is a guy running a marathon in his 6mx6m back garden at the moment to rise funds for the NHS. If you commit to running a marathon in your garden I will donate the bus money I saved this week to a cause of your choosing.
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:43 am

McLaren wrote:Super

There is a guy running a marathon in his 6mx6m back garden at the moment to rise funds for the NHS. If you commit to running a marathon in your garden I will donate the bus money I saved this week to a cause of your choosing.

That sounds very harmful to the knees and ligaments to be running 26.2 miles in such an enclosed space. I don't think this guy will manage. Would say its considerably harder than running an actual marathon.

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:44 am

McLaren wrote:Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".

Yet, you'd defend the government of your choice if they did that.

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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:49 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".

Yet, you'd defend the government of your choice if they did that.

No I wouldn't. Can you really imagine the green party adopting a policy that would result in mass deaths? They are way too namby pamby for that.

(Also the greens adhere strictly to policies derived from scientific evidence)
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:52 am

I can't imagine the green party having any policies Mac, they are a joke and completely irrelevant in UK politics now.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".

Yet, you'd defend the government of your choice if they did that.

Bingo.

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Post by JAS Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:08 pm

I've got to say (and I can't believe I'm actually saying this!!) I actually miss Johnson doing the daily briefings. I'm not pretending I agree with much of what he says politically in normal circumstances but he DID have that kind of engaging "we're all in this together" type personality and with that he and the government have been given the benefit of the doubt so far and I do hope that continues. I'm actually willing Tories to succeed (because this is way way bigger than normal party politics). However that doesn't mean they should be given and blind free pass.

As the days go by, Raab, Jenrick and especially Gove just do not come across in the same reassuring way as Johnson and that is coinciding with it becoming clear that despite the same things being parroted day after day we are NOT where we've been led to believe we would be in terms of testing and PPE at this point.
A case can now also be made re "essential workers" after seeing the clip of the Acton station tube station this morning. There are a lot of essential workers required, sure but I also think there's more than just a few Mike Ashley type bosses out there who have an unreasonably elevated ideas about how "essential" their business is. The scenes at Acton and the repeated messages to stay at home just DO NOT add up.


Last edited by JAS on Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:09 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Big of you to say so JAS. Mac on the other hand can't give anyone credit for anything unless he 100% is in agreement with them on every point. It's pathetic

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:44 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".
Hear that sound? That was the point going over your head...
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Post by dynamark Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:21 pm

I am not in the knowledge but common sense says that immunity will not happen as such, what will happen is a lack of transmission as more have the virus and we stick to minimal contact.Seen a story today that suggests an infected person will now only infect 0.6 others whilst they are contagious.Now that is a good number.
Just had a slightly alarming e mail from the golf course owners which wasn't really needed saying that their finances have been decimated (quote) bearing in mind subs due today .I m pretty sure they weren't that healthy to start with as they were doing all sorts of offers and deals over recent months big ideas but shallow pockets. Daughter works there as well but I have been trying to get her to find something else for ages.
Im sure there are hundreds of clubs in similar situation.

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Post by I'm never wrong Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:30 pm

My club Dyna, has just taken my last monthly instalment and using it as a "holding" payment for next year. We can wait for up to a year until we have to make a decision as to whether to take up playing again. If we do, that amount with be deducted of our pro rata fee. If you don't do this, you may lose your membership as we have a waiting list at the club.

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:33 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:My club Dyna, has just taken my last monthly instalment and using it as a "holding" payment for next year. We can wait for up to a year until we have to make a decision as to whether to take up playing again. If we do, that amount with be deducted of our pro rata fee. If you don't do this, you may lose your membership as we have a waiting list at the club.

St Andrews have extended it to May 31st. Hoping for pro rata as they're absolutely minted.

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Post by dynamark Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:42 pm

I have not renewed (cos I struggle to play)but they were offering an extra 3 months free if you paid in advance over last few months.I do have some understanding of this and that is never a good sign.
Im assuming they are getting e mails from members(who are not daft) asking about money and the best thing to do would be to say now in no uncertain terms that the closed period will be added on to next year so lets say 2 months closed subs not due till May 21 .Its called crisis management and it needs some strong and serious action.Every problem has a solution and that e mail was exactly the opposite.I have known the lady who is secretary for 30 years but she may be a bit out of her comfort zone.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:09 pm

dynamark wrote:I am not in the knowledge but common sense says that immunity will not happen as such, what will happen is a lack of transmission as more  have the virus and we stick to minimal contact.Seen a story today  that suggests an infected person will now only infect 0.6 others whilst they are contagious.Now that is a good number.
Just had a slightly alarming e mail from the golf course owners which wasn't really needed saying that their finances have been decimated (quote) bearing in mind subs due today .I m pretty sure they weren't that healthy to start with as they were doing all sorts of offers and deals over recent months big ideas but shallow pockets. Daughter works there as well but I have been trying to get her to find something else for ages.
Im sure there are hundreds of clubs in similar situation.
I'm afraid that's just a story. You wouldn't see the exponential infection rates we're seeing at R0 < 1.

Looking like I'm quitting my membership. Club are only going to defer 60% to August w/ no guarantee of any golf before then, or after. Sod that and I have a child w/ underlying health issue to think of too. Pity as just invested in 5 doz. Vice balls for new season. Time for a new hobby maybe...
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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:23 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:Navy

I can see that you want to garner a cohesive spirit during this trying time but for me I cannot go so far as to defend a Tory government, or any government that came within a bees dick of fighting covid with "herd immunity".
Hear that sound? That was the point going over your head...

Take it as a small victory in these bleak times, but yes I am really not understanding you.
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Post by westisbest Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:48 am

I guess one small positive about this lockdown in terms of fitness, is people who are overweight will/may start to exercise more.

Through boredom, or thinking they actually have more than enough time to do it. Few friends of mine do the Joe Wicks workout with their kids, who don’t like exercising,  which is great. I do those to. Then there are other home workouts.
That’s the hope I guess.

Now, people can’t use the I don’t have time excuse.

On the other sign of the coin, you may get people who simply can’t be bothered and maybe eat more, sit around more etc.

A perfect time for people to become healthier.

Maybe.

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:55 am

westisbest wrote:I guess one small positive about this lockdown in terms of fitness, is people who are overweight will/may start to exercise more.

Through boredom, or thinking they actually have more than enough time to do it. Few friends of mine do the Joe Wicks workout with their kids, who don’t like exercising,  which is great. I do those to. Then there are other home workouts.
That’s the hope I guess.

Now, people can’t use the I don’t have time excuse.

On the other sign of the coin, you may get people who simply can’t be bothered and maybe eat more, sit around more etc.

A perfect time for people to become healthier.

Maybe.

I think the response from people is that because they are being told to stay indoors that they feel the need to rebel and go outside. Personally from a runners point of view I can't wait until this is over so everyone can go back indoors again. I am still seeing stupid people walking in pairs not willing to move to single file when someone approaches, still see people who have clearly never run in their lives ambling all over the pavement and not looking any further than the end of their feet.
I'm all for people doing more exercise, but a bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss.

I also saw 4 young ne'er do wells out on BMX's last night, clearly nor related and too young to live on their own. Which morons are letting their children out to mess about with friends still?

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:06 am

super_realist wrote:from a runners point of view

What a strange perspective to view anything from. Running is an exercise the forms part of the training for doing a sport. The crappy bit where you run round the field before working on your skills. What is running when it is just for the sake of running? Are you all massive Forrest Gump fans or something?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:12 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:from a runners point of view

What a strange perspective to view anything from. Running is an exercise the forms part of the training for doing a sport. The crappy bit where you run round the field before working on your skills. What is running when it is just for the sake of running? Are you all massive Forrest Gump fans or something?

I wouldn't expect you to understand Mac, you're too much of a WUM.

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Post by beninho Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:13 am

From this runners* point of view, I'm more snacking the sh€t out of what's in the cupboards and eating lunch from Iceland.

*I occasionally go on spurts when I run. I am a runner.

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:22 am

Iceland? I presumed you had more discerning taste than that Beninho

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Post by beninho Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:25 am

In the office this week, we have open Wenzels, iceland, poundland, Mark's and Spencer, Wilko, lidl, Savers. In the whole town. I went with an Iceland chicken and mushroom slice and a strawberry frijj milkshake.

Living the fu£kin dream in lockdown Britain.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:31 am

super_realist wrote:

I wouldn't expect you to understand Mac, you're too much of a WUM.

We have the time, enlighten me on the wonders of being a "runner". What is it to be a "runner"?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:35 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I wouldn't expect you to understand Mac, you're too much of a WUM.

We have the time, enlighten me on the wonders of being a "runner". What is it to be a "runner"?

Mac, you're an F1 fan, I would have thought you had the ability to understand something that others might find boring.

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:39 am

The Old farts at the R and A will not like that next year at St Andrews is the 149th, unless they push everything back a year.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:50 am

Super

But I would never define myself by my f1 fandom, you are a runner. What does it mean to be a runner?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:56 am

McLaren wrote:Super

But I would never define myself by my f1 fandom, you are a runner. What does it mean to be a runner?

Probably means the same as it does to be anything else Mac, a footballer a golfer, a bus traveller.
My point was that I have a different perspective on the new found runners of Edinburgh because I've been doing it for years and these Johnny come lately's have been at it a week and have zero common sense. Clear enough?

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:30 pm

Gary Neville, what a plank. Made some really good decisions on his hotel, now he's stuck his foot in his mouth by saying footballers in the Premier League shouldn't be supporting lower paid staff at their clubs. Always thought he was pretty thick.
Only stance he could possibly have is that reducing players wages would mean less tax for exchequer.

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Post by McLaren Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:36 pm

Super

That is not what he said. Stop reading the daily express.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:40 pm

He said they are more than likely working on something but it takes more two weeks to put together. Enough time to furlough staff while the players are still getting paid though.

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:42 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:He said they are more than likely working on something but it takes more two weeks to put together. Enough time to furlough staff while the players are still getting paid though.
Precisely, takes 2 minutes to change staffs salaries on the computer.
I wouldn't expect football to donate to the NHS, I would expect them to finance their own club.

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:43 pm

"I wish I was a player for 10 more mins.The PL players are more than likely working on a proposal to help clubs , communities and The NHS. It takes longer than 2 weeks to put together. Matt Hancock calling them out when he can’t get tests in place for NHS staff is a f@@@@@g cheek!"

On another note, I don't think Gary Neville is an idiot.


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Post by JAS Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:45 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:from a runners point of view

What a strange perspective to view anything from. Running is an exercise the forms part of the training for doing a sport. The crappy bit where you run round the field before working on your skills. What is running when it is just for the sake of running? Are you all massive Forrest Gump fans or something?

Not following here Mac, Are you saying running isn’t a sport? Even if you are what’s that got to do with a runners perspective? So if running isn’t a sport, what is Mo Farah? Eliud Kipchogi?

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:45 pm

If you are not an expert in contract law within football you cant have an opinion. Is that how it works?

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:49 pm

beninho wrote:If you are not an expert in contract law within football you cant have an opinion. Is that how it works?

How would I need to be an expert to know that if the players had any sense of perspective they would be donating money to support the poorly paid people inside their clubs?

Funny how Neville has a go at the lack of testing, then says it takes more than two weeks to sort things out at a football club how long does he think it would take to get the requisite number of effective tests in position? Irony? Completely lost on half wit Neville

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:50 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:If you are not an expert in contract law within football you cant have an opinion. Is that how it works?

How would I need to be an expert to know that if the players had any sense of perspective they would be donating money to support the poorly paid people inside their clubs?

Funny how Neville has a go at the lack of testing, then says it takes more than two weeks to sort things out at a football club how long does he think it would take to get the requisite number of effective tests in position? Irony? Completely lost on half wit Neville

Exactly. Ben is too busy trying to point score.

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:54 pm

I have no idea what all the clubs are doing. I read 4 were furloughing non playing staff.

I have no idea how easy it is to amend the contracts of highly paid players, without breaching those tenancies meaning a 59m player walks for free.

I do think clubs should do something to cover all staff, but as things stand the league is due to start on 30th April. So would probably need a further extension, which I gather will be announced soon after a meeting.

Its probably not as simple as shouting footballers earn loads blah blah blah.


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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:56 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:If you are not an expert in contract law within football you cant have an opinion. Is that how it works?

How would I need to be an expert to know that if the players had any sense of perspective they would be donating money to support the poorly paid people inside their clubs?

Funny how Neville has a go at the lack of testing, then says it takes more than two weeks to sort things out at a football club how long does he think it would take to get the requisite number of effective tests in position? Irony? Completely lost on half wit Neville

When you say clubs, do you mean just premier league clubs?

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Post by JAS Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:56 pm

beninho wrote:"I wish I was a player for 10 more mins.The PL players are more than likely working on a proposal to help clubs , communities and The NHS. It takes longer than 2 weeks to put together. Matt Hancock calling them out when he can’t get tests in place for NHS staff is a f@@@@@g cheek!"

On another note, I don't think Gary Neville is an idiot.


I’m not sure this is a player driven thing (for them to be on full pay and other staff not). To me it’s symptomatic of the mindset of the money men that run clubs and indeed big companies. It’s a mindset that has no place in football but it unfortunately has become embedded in the last couple of decades. What they think they are doing is protecting their prize assets whereas what they are actually doing (instinctively) is creating division.

It’s the kind of stinking attitude that the likes of Fergie, Shankly, Busby, Clough etc would have fearlessly torn into their board about. It would be nice to see the players shame the financiers and volunteer cuts in their own wages to finance the job security of the lower paid at clubs. A Club, is and should be just that, a club, in institution where everybody unites.

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:00 pm

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:If you are not an expert in contract law within football you cant have an opinion. Is that how it works?

How would I need to be an expert to know that if the players had any sense of perspective they would be donating money to support the poorly paid people inside their clubs?

Don't mind, any club or any sport where the players earn a disproportionate amount of money ought

Funny how Neville has a go at the lack of testing, then says it takes more than two weeks to sort things out at a football club how long does he think it would take to get the requisite number of effective tests in position? Irony? Completely lost on half wit Neville

When you say clubs, do you mean just premier league clubs?
I don't mind, I don't even care about the sport. If you are earning  disproportionate money to the lowest paid players at your club, without even asking you should be donating money to these employees if your club are threatening to sack, make redundant or furlough them. With that amount of money swimming around then the highest earners on 100k plus a week should be doing the decent thing, and that doesn't require "contract negotiation"
They could simply write a cheque. Its not hard.


Last edited by super_realist on Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:01 pm

JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:"I wish I was a player for 10 more mins.The PL players are more than likely working on a proposal to help clubs , communities and The NHS. It takes longer than 2 weeks to put together. Matt Hancock calling them out when he can’t get tests in place for NHS staff is a f@@@@@g cheek!"

On another note, I don't think Gary Neville is an idiot.


I’m not sure this is a player driven thing (for them to be on full pay and other staff not). To me it’s symptomatic of the mindset of the money men that run clubs and indeed big companies. It’s a mindset that has no place in football but it unfortunately has become embedded in the last couple of decades. What they think they are doing is protecting their prize assets whereas what they are actually doing (instinctively) is creating division.

It’s the kind of stinking attitude that the likes of Fergie, Shankly, Busby, Clough etc would have fearlessly torn into their board about. It would be nice to see the players shame the financiers and volunteer cuts in their own wages to finance the job security of the lower paid at clubs. A Club, is and should be just that, a club, in institution where everybody unites.

Yep, how to get pay cuts without breaching contracts, I would also guess image rights are part of all contracts. Football is a business. It's what it has become, and this is all just part of it. Players may not actually be classed as staff in some instances.




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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:04 pm

Why does it need to be a pay cut Beninho, do you think that they can't eat until they grt their brown envelope on Friday afternoon.
These guys are all multi millionaires. They've got plenty in the bank. No low earner at these clubs should be financially bereft as a result of this. There is too much money in the game.

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:09 pm

I don't know what individual players do with the money they get or even how they are paid.

I would like to think clubs at the top end will do something and considering only 4 have been mentioned it's hard to say it's a big problem.

I doubt many clubs under the premier league will be able to keep everyone on. I'm sure my own club cant.

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:16 pm

beninho wrote:I don't know what individual players do with the money they get or even how they are paid.

I would like to think clubs at the top end will do something   and considering only 4 have been mentioned it's hard to say it's a big problem.

I doubt many clubs under the premier league will be able to keep everyone on. I'm sure my own club cant.


I would think Championship clubs could. They still earn great money.

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:19 pm

Do they, how many clubs in the championship make a profit? How much do you think a player at Luton or Barnsley gets a week?

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:29 pm

beninho wrote:Do they, how many clubs in the championship make a profit?  How much do you think a player at Luton or Barnsley gets a week?

Average Championship salary is 11k a week. If the clubs aren't making a profit all the more reason for players to support those on low wages don't you think? Guys on 572000 a year can't donate 10k each to their club? 🤣

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:36 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Do they, how many clubs in the championship make a profit?  How much do you think a player at Luton or Barnsley gets a week?

Average Championship salary is 11k a week. If the clubs aren't making a profit all the more reason for players to support those on low wages don't you think? Guys on 572000 a year can't donate 10k each to their club? 🤣


Don't understand why footballers are specifically on the hook here. There are people all over the country, any country, making millions and not thinking twice about the poor sucker who helped get them there.
Hancock should deliver the same message universally. Which he won't do.

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:38 pm

Some players in all walks of football may be able to, some may not. Its the same in all walks of life. Some rich people will donate, some will not. I dont think footballers need to be singled out.


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Post by McLaren Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:50 pm

For any club on championship or EPL TV money it is a strange and somewhat unbelievable decision to furlough any staff member. They could instantly whip up the finance to purchase a player for tens of million so they can afford to pay the cleaners and turnstile people for a couple of months.

And I agree the onus isn't on the players to sort this stuff out.

There are way richer people in the UK than footballers, when will Dyson, Branson, Ashley, ineos guy etc be donating to the cause?
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