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Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

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Post by RDW on Mon 20 Apr 2020, 12:10 am

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

Sad

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 10:30 am

It is not a great read and the SRU have certainly been called out a few times in the past year or so (this, Matt Scott contract, the debacle in Japan, the out of proportion bonus's). I am steadily coming around to the idea that maybe a refresh at the top is the way forward.

It is a desperate shame to lose a guy who had bags of potential in such a shambolic way. If you were not seeing playing time for Matt Smith, pay or subsidise him to play for London Scots or spend a year in Southern France. Rennie's style seems to be more a match for Super Rugby/Internationals where you don't have to worry about getting the youth playing time because they will get it in club rugby.

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Post by EST on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 10:44 am

That was a tough read, pro rugby can be a very difficult environment - especially for younger players around the fringes of the squad.

I think Smith really did get the rough end of the stick when it came to opportunities at Glasgow - he always performed well when he did get a chance and, with Gibbins leaving, there is a gap in that squad that he could be filling now.

Glad he's got things sorted and he is more positive about the future.

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 11:24 am

Morning gentlemen Hug

I've taken a while before joining in on this matter.
As someone who had to walk away from the career he loved (teaching) because it was making his life unbearable I found far too many things in young Matt Smith's interview far too close to home.

Firstly, and most importantly, a lot of us define ourselves through our job; you are what you do, as it were. If we told Saint Gee Of The Bedpan that he couldn't care for people anymore there would be a huge enema shaped hole in his sense of self.
Secondly, the feeling of not being in control of the important decisions in our lives all to often exacerbates anxiety and depression. To be prevented from doing the thing you most want to do (play rugby) and be powerless to change that ( keep asking the coach what you need to do: do it and still be left out) must take it's toll on a person's mental health. It is almost unthinkable that professional sports organisations are not aware of this and are not putting the necessary support measures in place.

Secondly, when you walk away from the thing you love but which has turned into a toxic experience for you...it is not the end of the world. Life goes on and it is worth living. Matt Smith sounds as if he has found another way of defining himself: he doesn't have to be The Rugby Player anymore he can be the engineer. The reference to his sister being a Scottish international and the twitter post where he has his grandad's Scotland jersey and caps would suggest that from a very young age his identity and sense of self were tied up in his sporting prowess. Imagine being constantly denied the chance to show what you can do.
MrsPip, and Princess Daughter, laugh at me because I have retired from teaching more often than Frank Sinatra walked away from show business. When I retired due to depression I struggled with the sense that "it had beaten me" and I had "left under a cloud". I started supply teaching just to prove to myself that I could hack it. Surprisingly enough, going back on my own terms and knowing how to pace myself, in terms of emotional commitment, allowed the skills and abilities I had developed over 30 years to come to the fore: teaching was fun and rewarding again. I keep going back because I keep getting asked and I love it. However, some people need a clean break and a fresh slate. It sounds as if Matt Smith has that. I hope he finds the peace he needs.

Secondly, Glasgow Warriors need to take a long , hard look at themselves. They have a duty of care to all of their employees and that includes mental as well as physical health. There are no ifs or buts here. All employers have a duty of care. I neither know nor care what GW's approach has been all I know is that there have been too many people letting the media know that it isn't good enough. GW need to reflect on their practice and make whatever changes necessary.

Thirdly, I have commented in previous posts on the difference between the Toonie Tombola and DR's Chosen Ones; the comment that a few of us used re. DR's tenure was that the jury was out in terms of success on the field. Well, I think I now know which side of the fence I am on. DR seems to be the kind of Father figure coach who, if you are one of his favourite sons, is wonderful but part of being a favourite is not being one of those excluded from affection and praise. Imagine you are a very young man in your first year of professional rugby and you play in a losing match at the home of the best team in Europe and afterwards in the dressing room, in front of everyone your coach shouts at you, "You're not a professional rugby player, you're an imposter." How would you feel?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 11:37 am

Very eloquent as always jimbo and absolutely on the money.

Lots of contributing factors but it all comes down to the SRU and its respective clubs not being good enough. This is the problem with a top-down organisation, I've worked for big corps and organisations and you see it all the time, they give plenty of lip service to mental health without actually properly addressing it.

Agree on DR, I think a certain amount of accountability lies with the coaches as well. Toonie, for all his faults, seemed to keep a good culture going at Glasgow with plenty of opportunity for youth if they deserved it. They need to be telling players what they've done right as well as what they need to improve on. When you hear stories about coaches telling players they're not quite there every time they have a discussion it smacks of discrimination due to personal preferences.

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Post by RDW on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 11:42 am

Excellent post Jimbo Hug

It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash when Cockers moves on, and how his incredibly tough environment has affected certain players.

I suppose Cockers doesn't have favourites - everyone is a w***er until they prove to him otherwise! Very much tough love over fatherly love.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 11:45 am

Dark times indeed

I'm an advocate in the thinking that people don’t leave jobs because they don’t like the job but because they don’t like the manager.

Smith wasn’t rated by Rennie and was sent to Edinburgh where clearly there wasn’t any room for him. All the SRU did here was try to move the problem from one team to another and unsurprisingly there was no benefit.

Smith had to be sent somewhere meaningful, wherever that may have been.

Glasgow and the SRU need to reflect on what happened here and really take steps to stop this happening in future. For one thing they have some advice from Matt where every player should be sent to the mental welfare professionals on a regular basis. Sometimes people don’t know they are needing some work, no matter how small. I know nothing about cars so I take my car to a mechanic once a year to check everything is ok. Why do we look after cars better than our own mental health?
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Post by bsando on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 12:07 pm

I'm glad Smith came out about his experiences, that is the only way Glasgow, Edinburgh and SRU can learn. Smith labels a lot of specific problems that can easily be remedied such as coaches and psychologist being separate, with the player being able to speak to psychologist away from Scotstoun in a more private location. To be honest, every professional player should be speaking to a welfare officer or sports psychologist as part of their contract. It seems outrageous Smith was able to get into such a bad place and for so many of his coaches to not really notice or care. Even if someone is smiling and seems happy there needs to be honest and frank discussions with every player to ensure everyone is happy and in the right frame of mind. Young men are prone to suicidal thoughts and depression for numerous reasons and it stems from not talking about it. If a club doesn't even give a player a chance to speak their mind then that is deeply concerning.

As much as Edinburgh have improved, the more I read on Cockers the more I am beginning to feel he is pushing some players too hard. He is certainly no saint. Scott and now Smith would probably have a lot to say about him. Of course I would like to see Edinburgh win the Pro14 and make a QF in Europe but I'd like to know the players are enjoying the experience and are happy. I would say the majority are to be honest, but Smith is an example of why the SRU need to improve their approach to mental health further.


Last edited by bsando on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 12:08 pm

RDW wrote:Excellent post Jimbo Hug

It will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash when Cockers moves on, and how his incredibly tough environment has affected certain players.

I suppose Cockers doesn't have favourites - everyone is a w***er until they prove to him otherwise! Very much tough love over fatherly love.

I think whilst Cockers is obviously a ballbuster he's quite fair about it and is self-aware enough to know his flaws. It seems people have moved on from Edinburgh with his encouragement, rather than him just cutting them out of the loop completely. Whilst some of his selections are a bit hit and miss I think he does give players a fair chance a lot of the time, and is doing moreso now a few years on than when he first took over, which shows willingness to adapt a bit.

I think he's maybe one of those bosses who some work for better than others. It's hard to know where the line is between players complaining because he's given them a b*llocking or whether there genuinely is a problem with his man management.
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Post by BigGee on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 1:56 pm

Some great posts on the subject from everybody. It is also very noticeable that the support on social media has been overwhelmingly positive as well, with many players and journos as well as fans all coming out in support of MS. Hopefully he has found this to be a cathartic experience.

I am also coming round to the view expressed by many others that perhaps it is no bad thing that DR has moved on and it may well be time for a new regime at the Warriors, where promising young players do get the chance to show their talents.

The financial constraints imposed by the Covid crisis may go some way to forcing DW hand on this, but you would like to think that some of it may have happened in any case.

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 29 Jul 2020, 7:14 pm

From all accounts DW was good at nurturing local young talent at cardiff and bringing them on leaps and bounds before he left. It's a shame Matt smith fell on the DR years as the Tombola would have favoured him with starts (purely on a probability basis) and DW would have identified him as good young talent.

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Post by RDW on Fri 31 Jul 2020, 11:47 am

Been watching a lot of the Aussie SR - Edinburgh definitely would have been better off with Jono Lance not falling through. There's been a few negative comments on here but he's actually been pretty decent - nothing flashy but has been a key man for the Force being competitive and most of the pundits have been talking him up as one of the better 10s in the competition.

He was certainly more than good enough to be our 2nd choice 10, especially given we have a child as his replacement and a foetus after that!

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Post by bsando on Sat 01 Aug 2020, 6:43 am

At least now Edinburgh are bringing through a young Scottish fly half. Lance would have been good I’m sure, but I doubt Chamberlain would have got nearly as much game time as he’s going to get. If there’s a noticeable drop in performance at ten when it all kicks off again I wonder how Cockers will react?

Looking ahead to the 6N, will DVDM, Keble and JVDW all eligible for Scotland by then?

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Post by RDW on Sat 01 Aug 2020, 6:47 am

VDM and Kebble are now SQ, and VDW will be in November.

If VDW gets Scotland time god knows which 10 will be on the Edinburgh bench!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 01 Aug 2020, 12:07 pm

I guess someone will retrain as a back-up club FH in the Pete Horne mold. Maybe Johnstone or Dean? Have they ever played there before?

I think at a push Bennett has done a bit at FH.

There's also Cameron Scott in the academy who may get some bench time, provided Chamberlain continues his form into the pro arena.

I think it could be quite an exciting season for young talent across the board as the opportunities will come thick and fast.
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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Aug 2020, 12:23 pm

Findlay Christie 2 tries and an assist with the Blues running riot today. He runs good support lines similar to George Horne. He's one of the form 9s in SR NZ right now! Amazing experience for him playing with these superstars.

https://youtu.be/kHF0v0dijMY

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 02 Aug 2020, 12:34 pm

Talking of eligible players, found this interesting interview with Femi Sofolarin. We could become quite nicely stocked on the wings, which is important given Darcy Graham's injury record!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland-sevens-star-femi-sofolarin-explains-why-he-switched-england-2536413%3famp
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Post by bsando on Sun 02 Aug 2020, 9:22 pm

Good capture that! The future is looking not too bad. I’ll be interested to see how some of the new signings at Glasgow and Edinburgh do as well as the ones playing in English Premiership.

I’ve caught up on the Super Rugby and Christie was excellent wasn’t he? I just love his commitment to the little things, like cleaning up loose ball, making a nuisance of himself at scrums and rucks. I didn’t realise but he was part of the Mitre 10 Winners last season with Tasman Makos so he has been building quite well as a player.

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Post by EST on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 11:29 am

RDW wrote:Findlay Christie 2 tries and an assist with the Blues running riot today. He runs good support lines similar to George Horne. He's one of the form 9s in SR NZ right now! Amazing experience for him playing with these superstars.

https://youtu.be/kHF0v0dijMY

From the highlights it looks like he is bang in form - must be pushing his way up the scrum-half AB pecking order, despite the strength in depth they have.


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Post by BigGee on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 1:48 pm

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/kelly-brown-returns-to-glasgow

Well all change on the Glasgow/Scotland coaching front

John Dalziel off to be Scotland forward coach and Kelly Brown returns to Glasgow as a forwards coach focusing on the breakdown.

Petrus du Plessis is moving on, destination unknown currently.

PDP will be missed, but maybe we could not afford the luxury of a full time scrum coach if he is not going to be playing any more, particularly if the scrum coach with Scotland stays on, as has been mooted.

I had a feeling that Dalziel might go to Scotland, he seems highly thought off and is a coach on the up, probably a head coach in the making down the line.

Kelly Brown has been coaching the Sarries academy since retirement and has been assisting Scotland as well. He has a very good pedigree for the role.

Interesting how this one will work out, but DW seems to be putting his own stamp on things.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 2:00 pm

Agreed Gee, Dalziel and PDP have made positive contributions and more than earned their salt.
Elvis' Wee brother may prove to be a very good coach. Here's hoping.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 2:36 pm

I think those are pretty solid choices. Dalziel did an excellent job with the U20s and Glasgow have shown improvements given their limitations in the pack. In particular Fagerson has come on in leaps and bounds since Dalziel joined the coaching setup and must be given some credit.

He also will be considerably cheaper than most of the options out there, given our inevitable budget constraints post-covid. Will be interested to see how much influence he will have on Scotland.

Brown is another good choice. A well-respected player, I just hope he can really stamp down his authority at the senior level, although he did an okay job as captain back in the day. I think he's also done some work with Scotland?
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Post by BigGee on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 2:42 pm

De Villiers, the scrum coach who was contracted for the 6N last year and made quite a difference to our scrum, now joins Scotland on a full time basis.

That is no surprise, as he did a very good job, but maybe explains why PDP has been let go early. PDV would be available to do sessions with the clubs if required plus DW is a forward coach by trade.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 2:47 pm

BigGee wrote:De Villiers, the scrum coach who was contracted for the 6N last year and made quite a difference to our scrum, now joins Scotland on a full time basis.

That is no surprise, as he did a very good job, but maybe explains why PDP has been let go early. PDV would be available to do sessions with the clubs if required plus DW is a forward coach by trade.

That's definitely the best news. The difference him and Tandy have made in such a short period is palpable.
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Post by EST on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 2:50 pm

So did the Scotland team not have a dedicated forwards coach this year, or did PDV cover the scrum and everything else?


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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 3:00 pm

EST wrote:So did the Scotland team not have a dedicated forwards coach this year, or did PDV cover the scrum and everything else?


Wilson was forwards coach up until the end of the 6Ns
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Post by EST on Mon 03 Aug 2020, 3:10 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
EST wrote:So did the Scotland team not have a dedicated forwards coach this year, or did PDV cover the scrum and everything else?


Wilson was forwards coach up until the end of the 6Ns

Ahh of course he was - Doh!

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Post by BigGee on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 12:26 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scotland-international-dougie-fife-is-heading-to-mlr/

DF off to play in MLR for the upcoming season. Good luck to him out there.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 1:38 pm

Happy to see him get to continue his rugby journey in Weymouth. It is not far from Cape Cod (in relative terms) and there are plenty of pretty little towns for him to choose from (if anyone wants to be scarred, check out the cost of renting in Central Boston).

Felt that if Fife was at Glasgow, he would have got more opportunities. This coming season in particular, Glasgow could have done with another wing. As it is, the ship has probably sailed on Fife's international ambitions and taking opportunities to explore new places can't be sniffed at.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 10:32 am

Mark Palmer hinting thst PDP may be heading off to Oz to be Dave Rennie's scrum coach for the Wallabies.

That would make sense

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Post by EST on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 1:26 pm

Really good gig if true, good luck to him.

In a short space of time he seems to have really become part of the fabric with Glasgow, all of the remarks on twitter suggest he will be missed by the fans - and of course he re-joined the NHS as a physio during the height of the pandemic when he could have easily sat on Furlough.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 5:19 pm

I see Sam Yawayawa has signed for London Scottish.

He was a very promising age grade player of Fijian and British army heritage, he played age grade for Scotland and England and was in Leicester and Glasgow academies for a while. A very good 16-17 year old who then faded a bit as other age grade players caught up with him, he fell out of the Glasgow academy and went off to play in the lower divisions in England, for Cambridge I believe.

Anyway, he is having a second bite at the cherry with LS and from his interview feels that he has improved by getting regular game in national division 1, which is still a pretty decent standard.

Still only 21, maybe one to keep an eye on for the future.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 5:37 pm

Yawayawa was a player I always rated really highly and other fans at Tigers looked at me a bit funny when I talked him up so much.

Not quite the pace or footwork of someone like Odogwu coming through the academy but he was more than quick/powerful enough and had a better all round game than other wingers making the England age graders who haven't really transferred into senior rugby.

Hopefully he does well in the Championship.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 07 Aug 2020, 10:21 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/mark-dodson-no-redundancies/?v=79cba1185463

An update from Dodson on the SRUs financial situation.

Bad but could be worse maybe sums it up. Possibly benefitting from running a pretty tight ship over the past few years.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 08 Aug 2020, 7:15 am

Aye it's good to see it's in hand at least and they're not so easily talking about cutting programmes like the other unions. I suppose that's the advantage of having been in the financial sh*t before and got through it, we're experienced in having no money. That also makes it even more frustrating because now we're back there due to bad luck just as we've sorted ourselves out!

All things considered though could definitely be worse.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 9:45 am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/edinburgh-dougie-fife-interview/

Dougie Fife interview about life at Edinburgh and move to States

'we were always trying to catch up with Glasgow' sums it up very nicely!

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Post by RDW on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 11:53 am

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/oguntibeju-the-68-120kg-scottish-qualified-nigerian-born-lock-whos-playing-in-sa-but-could-be-about-to-sign-for-edinburgh/

Quite a story this - he's certainly a big lad! Got a huge amount of rugby education to do over the next few years. Will be interesting to see what happens.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 12:03 pm

Sounds like a nice lad, best of luck to him! Could be a big influence in the boiler room should he learn to use his size properly, although I'll reserve judgement for now as he's still very green, not just to pro but to rugby as a whole by the sound of it!
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Post by BigGee on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 1:16 pm

Mark palmer interview with Jamie Dobie, who really looks to have the full package and why he wisely choose Glasgow!

I am sure we will see a lot more of him this season.


We all saw Jamie Dobie’s technical prowess in the series of slick displays he produced for Glasgow pre-pandemic, initially off the bench then in a first start against Dragons where he recovered from throwing a seven-point intercept after 49 seconds to be named man of the match.

The resilience he showed that night is one of many reasons we are entitled to be seriously excited about this 19-year-old scrum-half who joined the Warriors straight from school last summer. The evidence strongly suggests he really does have the full package, from work-ethic to mental strength via a passion for leadership. These are, of course, early days, but ask around and it’s clear that Dobie has long been living like a professional in waiting.

Born in Inverness and raised just outside the Highland capital, he moved to Edinburgh’s Merchiston Castle school aged 11. He was part of the renowned tennis academy there for four years, but rugby — which he had first sampled with the Highland minis — gradually became a bigger part of his life. “I loved the team element,” he recalls. “When exams started to come along, it was hard to do both tennis and rugby to a reasonably high standard, so I had to make a choice. Hopefully I made the right one.”

Dobie was always small, but impressed his school coaches with his commitment in the gym. The aim was never to get massive, but to ensure he was in a position to be as strong a defender as he is an attacker. Still only 12 and a half stones soaking wet, Dobie punches well above his weight and has excellent tackle technique. He is known for being a good listener, but also a strong speaker, whose charisma and communication skills were sufficiently obvious to see him captain Scotland under-18s and be a key cog in the Merchiston side that won the Scottish Schools Cup in 2018. In addition, he was the school’s head boy in his final year, which meant addressing assembly every Tuesday.

“I really enjoyed that responsibility,” he says. “It’s good to be comfortable speaking in front of people, especially as a scrum-half where one of your roles is to be very vocal, almost bossing people about to make sure they’re in the right positions.

“Being comfortable speaking to boys who have 50 caps for Scotland and are 10 years older than me, is massive. I’ve always liked to work hard and I pride myself on taking people by surprise in defence. I’m just about always one of the smallest players on the pitch, so having that element is important. In the last couple of years, I’ve added more of a running threat to my game as well: having an eye for the gap and being confident to take it.”

Dobie spoke to Edinburgh about going there, but with Ali Price and George Horne almost certain to be involved with Scotland for big chunks of the season, there was more scope to make an immediate impact in the west. Dobie featured heavily in the World Cup period and then again in the initial Six Nations window. It hasn’t escaped his attention just how much Test rugby is around the corner now.

“If those two are away with Scotland which I’m sure they will be, it’s another real opportunity for me to build. I’m now a lot more comfortable with all that goes on, and the Warriors way of playing, so it’s really exciting, the prospect of having some more game-time towards the start of this season if all goes to plan.

“It was a bit of a baptism of fire when Ali and George were away in Japan, which bumped me up the pecking order. I wouldn’t have it any other way, though. It’s exactly what you want, to be thrown out there. Coming from school, I hadn’t played any men’s club rugby so it’s always going to shock you a bit, but I really enjoyed it.

“I was in talks with Edinburgh about a deal where I would have had a year in the academy then moved into being a first-year pro. It was quite clear that I wasn’t going to be playing there for a couple of years, which is absolutely fair enough coming out of school. But in Glasgow I got that opportunity. It was a good chance to show I was ready to play at the highest level.”

Dobie was always going to have options. Academically gifted, he got nine A*s at GCSE and is about to start a Business degree at Strathclyde to complement the day job. “Rugby isn’t a long career and you never know what can happen with injuries and the like. It’s important with the time we’ve got around training to do something. I took last year to get used to the schedule and get used to it, and I was keen this year to get another focus.”

He spent lockdown up north, thriving on the space and the calm rather than being “cooped up” in the Glasgow flat he shares with academy lock Gregor Brown. “I think I could have gone a bit mental, so it was nice to have that freedom with the garden and the like,” he says. “Mum got me busy doing a couple of projects in the garden, but I got my meals cooked so it was a nice wee deal!”

After a stint on enemy territory at Murrayfield, Glasgow are now back training at Scotstoun ahead of the 1872 Cup derby double-header against Edinburgh on August 22 and 28. With former Wallaby Nick Frisby having left the club, Dobie will have even more scope to press his claims, but says he pays no heed to those already touting him for true stardom. “It’s important not to get too wrapped up in what other people are saying. You can have a really good or bad game and people are always going to have something to say about it. You need to be able to put that to one side and know what you’ve still got to work on.”

He can pass off both hands, he defends with conviction and his box-kicking is exceptional. The fact that Dobie knows he’s not the finished article is another reason to wager he will go all the way to the top.


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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 2:15 pm

BigGee wrote:Mark palmer interview with Jamie Dobie, who really looks to have the full package and why he wisely choose Glasgow!

I am sure we will see a lot more of him this season.


We all saw Jamie Dobie’s technical prowess in the series of slick displays he produced for Glasgow pre-pandemic, initially off the bench then in a first start against Dragons where he recovered from throwing a seven-point intercept after 49 seconds to be named man of the match.

The resilience he showed that night is one of many reasons we are entitled to be seriously excited about this 19-year-old scrum-half who joined the Warriors straight from school last summer. The evidence strongly suggests he really does have the full package, from work-ethic to mental strength via a passion for leadership. These are, of course, early days, but ask around and it’s clear that Dobie has long been living like a professional in waiting.

Born in Inverness and raised just outside the Highland capital, he moved to Edinburgh’s Merchiston Castle school aged 11. He was part of the renowned tennis academy there for four years, but rugby — which he had first sampled with the Highland minis — gradually became a bigger part of his life. “I loved the team element,” he recalls. “When exams started to come along, it was hard to do both tennis and rugby to a reasonably high standard, so I had to make a choice. Hopefully I made the right one.”

Dobie was always small, but impressed his school coaches with his commitment in the gym. The aim was never to get massive, but to ensure he was in a position to be as strong a defender as he is an attacker. Still only 12 and a half stones soaking wet, Dobie punches well above his weight and has excellent tackle technique. He is known for being a good listener, but also a strong speaker, whose charisma and communication skills were sufficiently obvious to see him captain Scotland under-18s and be a key cog in the Merchiston side that won the Scottish Schools Cup in 2018. In addition, he was the school’s head boy in his final year, which meant addressing assembly every Tuesday.

“I really enjoyed that responsibility,” he says. “It’s good to be comfortable speaking in front of people, especially as a scrum-half where one of your roles is to be very vocal, almost bossing people about to make sure they’re in the right positions.

“Being comfortable speaking to boys who have 50 caps for Scotland and are 10 years older than me, is massive. I’ve always liked to work hard and I pride myself on taking people by surprise in defence. I’m just about always one of the smallest players on the pitch, so having that element is important. In the last couple of years, I’ve added more of a running threat to my game as well: having an eye for the gap and being confident to take it.”

Dobie spoke to Edinburgh about going there, but with Ali Price and George Horne almost certain to be involved with Scotland for big chunks of the season, there was more scope to make an immediate impact in the west. Dobie featured heavily in the World Cup period and then again in the initial Six Nations window. It hasn’t escaped his attention just how much Test rugby is around the corner now.

“If those two are away with Scotland which I’m sure they will be, it’s another real opportunity for me to build. I’m now a lot more comfortable with all that goes on, and the Warriors way of playing, so it’s really exciting, the prospect of having some more game-time towards the start of this season if all goes to plan.

“It was a bit of a baptism of fire when Ali and George were away in Japan, which bumped me up the pecking order. I wouldn’t have it any other way, though. It’s exactly what you want, to be thrown out there. Coming from school, I hadn’t played any men’s club rugby so it’s always going to shock you a bit, but I really enjoyed it.

“I was in talks with Edinburgh about a deal where I would have had a year in the academy then moved into being a first-year pro. It was quite clear that I wasn’t going to be playing there for a couple of years, which is absolutely fair enough coming out of school. But in Glasgow I got that opportunity. It was a good chance to show I was ready to play at the highest level.”

Dobie was always going to have options. Academically gifted, he got nine A*s at GCSE and is about to start a Business degree at Strathclyde to complement the day job. “Rugby isn’t a long career and you never know what can happen with injuries and the like. It’s important with the time we’ve got around training to do something. I took last year to get used to the schedule and get used to it, and I was keen this year to get another focus.”

He spent lockdown up north, thriving on the space and the calm rather than being “cooped up” in the Glasgow flat he shares with academy lock Gregor Brown. “I think I could have gone a bit mental, so it was nice to have that freedom with the garden and the like,” he says. “Mum got me busy doing a couple of projects in the garden, but I got my meals cooked so it was a nice wee deal!”

After a stint on enemy territory at Murrayfield, Glasgow are now back training at Scotstoun ahead of the 1872 Cup derby double-header against Edinburgh on August 22 and 28. With former Wallaby Nick Frisby having left the club, Dobie will have even more scope to press his claims, but says he pays no heed to those already touting him for true stardom. “It’s important not to get too wrapped up in what other people are saying. You can have a really good or bad game and people are always going to have something to say about it. You need to be able to put that to one side and know what you’ve still got to work on.”

He can pass off both hands, he defends with conviction and his box-kicking is exceptional. The fact that Dobie knows he’s not the finished article is another reason to wager he will go all the way to the top.


Good interview, really he's come at the perfect time, as Ali P retires he will be a regular pro and George Horne will probably have established himself in the Scotland set-up as number 1 with Sheil and Dobie battling it out for two. All very exciting, and that's without Christie in the mix too!
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Post by RDW on Sun 09 Aug 2020, 11:16 pm

I saw a tweet this morning that WR have pushed back the 5 year rule by 12 months meaning Schoeman will actually be elligable after 3 years. No idea if there's any basis on this but it's amazing news if true!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 8:29 am

RDW wrote:I saw a tweet this morning that WR have pushed back the 5 year rule by 12 months meaning Schoeman will actually be elligable after 3 years. No idea if there's any basis on this but it's amazing news if true!

I saw this too. Would actually be most happy for Schoe who seems very keen to play for Scotland and by all accounts is a decent bloke. If Sutherland maintains form this season then from 2021 we could have a very strong front row. Just need another tighthead like Nicol or Rae to push on and start seriously competing for a place so when Nel retires we're not left short. Not a huge fan of Berghan, seems to just give away silly penalties more often than not and definitely isn't the backup solution going forward other than filling a hole.
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Post by BigGee on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 9:27 am

Yes, this seems to be true. Someone put up the official World Rugby revised guidelines on this and the 60 month residency will now apply from 31 Dec 2021. Up to that point it will still be a 36 month continuos residence that is sufficient.

Schoeman will reach that mark at the begining of next season, in the autumn of 2021. He will be eligible to play in the AIs of that season.

That will be a very good result for him and for Scotland.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 10:52 am

Switch off for the weekend and it looks like there is an athletically gifted lock who can perhaps become the next Richie Gray (with better health), Schoeman may qualify two years earlier and the SRU finances are not as bad as expected.

It does sound as if this Edinburgh guy may have potential and is at least three or four years away. He sounds perfect for the Super Six though, from the sounds of it, it is unlikely he will be willing to do a year at Stade Nicois in say 2023 to finish off his rugby education. Long way to go to get from raw potential to international standard.

On the finances section, not sure how they are going to get £14 million or how the Autumn period will fare. More games on TV but losing all the ticket revenue. A smart move might have been saying the SRU board will drop their combined wages by a £1 million+ to support it. I am not sure how they are going to cut costs without letting players or coaches go. There is not much fat in the Scottish game.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 2:44 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/edinburgh-dougie-fife-interview/

Dougie Fife interview about life at Edinburgh and move to States

'we were always trying to catch up with Glasgow players, but they always ran too fast! Even the fat boys.' sums it up very nicely!

Fixed that for you Whistle

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 2:47 pm

BigGee wrote:Mark palmer interview with Jamie Dobie, who really looks to have the full package and
I am sure we will see a lot more of him this season.




Gee, Erm You sound far too much like a Luvvie here. warning

Is this an unwelcome side effect of the covid virus?

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Post by BigGee on Mon 10 Aug 2020, 5:23 pm

jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:Mark palmer interview with Jamie Dobie, who really looks to have the full package and
I am sure we will see a lot more of him this season.




Gee, Erm You sound far too much like a Luvvie here. warning

Is this an unwelcome side effect of the covid virus?


Quite possibly!

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Post by RDW on Tue 11 Aug 2020, 2:29 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:I saw a tweet this morning that WR have pushed back the 5 year rule by 12 months meaning Schoeman will actually be elligable after 3 years. No idea if there's any basis on this but it's amazing news if true!

I saw this too. Would actually be most happy for Schoe who seems very keen to play for Scotland and by all accounts is a decent bloke. If Sutherland maintains form this season then from 2021 we could have a very strong front row. Just need another tighthead like Nicol or Rae to push on and start seriously competing for a place so when Nel retires we're not left short. Not a huge fan of Berghan, seems to just give away silly penalties more often than not and definitely isn't the backup solution going forward other than filling a hole.

I think Berghan has been a good servant for Scottish rugby, and we would have struggled for backup in that position if we hadn't had him. When he arrived in Scotland he was a bit of a big lump who struggled to stay fit. He's turned into a very reliable tighthead prop for Edinburgh and he's been a fairly consistent performer for Scotland. I don't think we can underestimate how hard life is as an international tighthead and he's generally done pretty well and over a number of years now. He's never going to be talked about in a Lions context but conversely I've never seen him as a weak point in the team.

He's got 24 Scotland caps and he's never really let us down in any of them (the odd stupid penalty aside!). He's only 29 too which is just coming into his propping prime. I expect him and Fagerson to be our frontline options up until the next WC. We could really do with others coming through - hopefully Murray McCallum can actually get some gametime. Nichol and Rae really need to step up too.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Yesterday at 4:47 pm

Nothing wrong with having a player like Berghan in the squad. Rarely lets you down and he's been very decent back up for Nel who has had a few injury issues. Nel is still Edinburgh's number one but I have no concerns when Berghan comes on (can't say the same about Bhatti on the other side).

Nel, Berghan and McCallum is a fairly decent group.

Great news today on Schoe as well. Terrific player and in a position where Scotland has very little depth. He and Sutherland will do us very nicely.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Yesterday at 10:41 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Nothing wrong with having a player like Berghan in the squad. Rarely lets you down and he's been very decent back up for Nel who has had a few injury issues. Nel is still Edinburgh's number one but I have no concerns when Berghan comes on (can't say the same about Bhatti on the other side).

Nel, Berghan and McCallum is a fairly decent group.

Great news today on Schoe as well. Terrific player and in a position where Scotland has very little depth. He and Sutherland will do us very nicely.

Bhatti is third choice behind Sutherland.....

It does feel like him moving to Edinburgh has been a mistake. He could have been fighting Kebble for the no. 1 spot and instead is almost certainly stuck in the third spot.

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Post by RDW Yesterday at 11:39 pm

I'd forgotten about Kebble - assuming Schoeman and Kebble are able to make the step up (I'm certain Schoeman will be able to, let's see about Kebble) that's a decent amount of depth at LH. Schoeman, Sutherland, Kebble, Bhatti.

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