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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:48 am

Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:29 pm

Jas

The key to this issue is in the title. It would just be called medicine if it were legitimate.
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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:33 pm

Super, do you think this guy is just too dumb to understand there are "other factors" or is this a fair comparison?


Gabriel Scally @GabrielScally wrote:Ireland is an 'experiment' in #coronavirus response. N Ireland has followed Whitehall approach. Rep of Ireland has followed
@WHO advice. The death rate for #COVID19 deaths in hospital (and for all COVID deaths) is 50% higher in Northern Ireland.
Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread EWNetIoXsAEIRVt?format=jpg&name=900x900


https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1252949950289371137


One comment in the replies to this tweet which I agree with said something like, if this were a clinical trail it would have been stopped. The increased death rate in the NI group would be unacceptable.  This is probably the case.


(And for you info, and not as an appeal to authority but to show his credentials for speaking on the topic, his bio is "Public health physician, Visiting Professor of Public Health at Uni of Bristol. President of Epidemiology & Public Health section, Royal Society of Medicine")
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:43 pm

What on earth are you talking about Mac?
Northern Ireland has a population of 1.9 million and 193 deaths
ROI has a population of 4.9 million and 769 deaths.
On these figures Northern Ireland has a lower death rate.

Do you seriously believe that fewer than 100 people in the Republic have died in hospital?


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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:49 pm

Super

Check the graph. It is deaths per million of population.
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:50 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Check the graph. It is deaths per million of population.

It's wrong on the figures that I've found.

Based on the graph it is trying to say that only around 375 paddies have died (in hospital). Sorry, I don't believe that figure,
But even if that is true, it speaks volumes about how much more rural Ireland is or how more dense the population is (pun intended) than Northern Ireland.
If you're comparing two countries you have to take every factor into account which might cause a difference and far too many people looking at stats simply aren't doing that.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:04 pm

Again, read the title of the graph. This is hospital deaths.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:05 pm

Super, I really hope you don't work in an area where the basics of reading data and presenting it are required. Reading the parts of a graph is like late primary school level.
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Post by beninho Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:06 pm

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/

Maybe the Irish Gov are lying?

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:14 pm

I'm not finding anywhere that states the Northern Irish numbers are hospital only.


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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:14 pm

Also Super, I posted this for you because I thought you would like the like for like comparison of hospital deaths without the "other factors" of how deaths in the community are being investigated and recorded. In both cases this will be people who have died from obvious covid symptoms and with a coivid19 +ve PCR test.

Do you think it likely that the NI and ROI record covid deaths in hospital differently?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:15 pm

McLaren wrote:Again, read the title of the graph. This is hospital deaths.


Mac I stated it was hospital Mac, perhaps you should try reading.


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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:19 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:It might help if the Northern Irish numbers were hospital specific but like Ireland they are not.

They are.
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:24 pm

If they are Mac then that means Ireland has 78 deaths per million and NI has 101 in terms of hospital deaths, hardly such a big deal as you are making out.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:31 pm

McLaren wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:It might help if the Northern Irish numbers were hospital specific but like Ireland they are not.

They are.

I'm not finding anything that specifies that.

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Post by beninho Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:51 pm

Why would NIron be different in reporting compared to the rest if the uk?

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:57 pm

beninho wrote:Why would NIron be different in reporting compared to the rest if the uk?

Abortion has only just become decriminalised there, so who knows how they're recording their data. No reason to think it's definitely the same as England.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:24 pm

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:32 pm

So what Mac, all we've shown is that NI has a slightly higher death rate in hospital than the spud munchers based South of the border. Big bloody deal. Its a difference of around 20 for every million people, also known as bugger all.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:48 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

What was your enforced absence for?

As if you don't know?
For the record, it wasn't me. It was Admin responding to a number of complaints.
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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:07 pm

Navy

I suspected it wasn't you. But how can it have been for a number of complaints given my only insult was aimed at super?

Why were a "number" of people complaining (one might say getting offended) on Supers behalf? How come so many people were bothered by calling super a "prick"?

Just seems like a very minor incident to get banned for a week.
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:09 pm

Mac, remember I got banned for calling you a plank. Someone must be very sensitive on here.

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Post by westisbest Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:28 pm

Hey. Realist. Ain’t nothing wrong with spuds.
And we ain’t dense. Well not all of us. Very Happy

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:34 pm

Does anyone else find this story a bit odd

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52393074

Just shows how inconsistent the application of lockdown is.

And if these businesses can run with many workers in enclosed spaces how come we can't hit a ball round a field that people are already walking all over?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:41 pm

Slightly Mac, in the way that it goes against government advice to shop for essentials only.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:53 pm

To be honest I don't really care what they do I just want the golf courses opened. If people can build austin martins or shop for bathrooms then the time has come to get the courses open.
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:10 pm

McLaren wrote:To be honest I don't really care what they do I just want the golf courses opened. If people can build austin martins or shop for bathrooms then the time has come to get the courses open.

Golf certainly has to be considered one of the safest things to do.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:17 pm

Super, are you feeling ok?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:19 pm

McLaren wrote:Super, are you feeling ok?

What? I mean safest as in regards to Coronavirus.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:22 pm

Not that
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:26 pm

What are you referring to?

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:29 pm

Can't believe you managed to let it go.
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:31 pm

Your spelling mistake? Yeah I saw it.

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Post by McLaren Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:43 pm

But not really a spelling mistake. I got a car thing wrong. How is your inner richard Hammond coping?
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:44 pm

I just hope they don't start making Austin's again.

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Post by beninho Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:15 pm

Peter Kay really not looking well. But Phoenix Nights was funny as f$I!

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Post by beninho Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:01 am

Anyone going to try injecting themselves with disinfectant?

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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:09 am

beninho wrote:Anyone going to try injecting themselves with disinfectant?

Trump has said some stupid things in his time, but that is maybe the funniest ever. It's actually the sort of thing I'd expect Alex Jones or the Flat Earthers to say. It is also guaranteed that at least one American will try this and die.

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Post by westisbest Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:14 am

Trump Laugh

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Post by JAS Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:23 am

super_realist wrote:Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

I misread the authorship of the post I assumed it was Mac asking...because it is the kind of question he would ask :-p

If you must know, I had an undiagnosed skin condition that used to flare up periodically, showing as a kind of cellulitis that made the lymph glands go into overdrive. It was extremely debilitating for 2-3 days, it was getting more frequent from every 6 months to every couple of months. My Crohn's consultant thought it might be related either to Crohns or to my Crohns medication but also referred me to a skin specialist who referred me to a top specialist in London. They never ever got to the bottom of it. As I wasn’t getting a solution, I tried TCM, a combination of herbs and acupuncture sessions. All the Chinese practitioner said was that I was out of balance, too much fire. I stuck for a good few months (weekly, then fortnightly then monthly). The skin flare ups and lymph node chaos receded. I now no longer even take any preventative Crohns medication. So yeah...it must all be complete bunkum.

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Post by McLaren Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:53 am

JAS wrote: So yeah...it must all be complete bunkum.

At least you came to the correct conclusion.
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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:01 am

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

I misread the authorship of the post I assumed it was Mac asking...because it is the kind of question he would ask :-p

If you must know, I had an undiagnosed skin condition that used to flare up periodically, showing as a kind of cellulitis that made the lymph glands go into overdrive. It was extremely debilitating for 2-3 days, it was getting more frequent from every 6 months to every couple of months. My Crohn's consultant thought it might be related either to Crohns or to my Crohns medication but also referred me to a skin specialist who referred me to a top specialist in London. They never ever got to the bottom of it. As I wasn’t getting a solution, I tried TCM, a combination of herbs and acupuncture sessions. All the Chinese practitioner said was that I was out of balance, too much fire. I stuck for a good few months (weekly, then fortnightly then monthly). The skin flare ups and lymph node chaos receded. I now no longer even take any preventative Crohns medication. So yeah...it must all be complete bunkum.

Or, it could have just cleared up on its own. Sounds like the Marvin Andrews school of reasoning.
Correlation is not causation.

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Post by JAS Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:44 am

Unbelievable!! There are none so blind as those that WILL not see because they choose not to.

I’d never say I’d exclusively abandon western medicine (that would be bonkers) but I had a condition which couldn’t be diagnosed, treated or cured by what we would call conventional means so I sought an alternative, not because I believed western medicine was crap and Chinese medicine was wonderful and scientifically proven (I really didn’t care, my prime objective was to get resolved a debilitating condition which was getting progressively worse). My doctors/consultants had pretty much exhausted their investigations and had only a vague notion of what it might be. I therefore looked at an alternative. It may we’ll be that it was a MASSIVE coincidence that a condition that had been getting steadily worse and more frequent over a 3-4 year period started to recede and over a few months disappeared completely after a course of Chinese Herbal medicine and acupuncture. I don’t really give a Poopie if was a coincidence or even a fluke. It went and I’m grateful it did.
Chinese Medicine will have its flaws, charlatan practitioners etc but so does all branches of medicine (Harold Shipman anyone??). It’s way too easy to ridicule something you don’t understand. I don’t understand it myself, I don’t need to, I tried it because I was desperate and it either worked or a HUGE coincidence happened. This was about 14-18 years ago and I’m still symptom free both from the cellulitis and lymph gland issues and indeed Crohns.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:54 am

JAS wrote:Unbelievable!! There are none so blind as those that WILL not see because they choose not to.

I’d never say I’d exclusively abandon western medicine (that would be bonkers) but I had a condition which couldn’t be diagnosed, treated or cured by what we would call conventional  means so I sought an alternative, not because I believed western medicine was crap and Chinese medicine was wonderful and scientifically proven (I really didn’t care, my prime objective was to get resolved a debilitating condition which was getting progressively worse). My doctors/consultants had pretty much exhausted their investigations and had only a vague notion of what it might be. I therefore looked at an alternative. It may we’ll be that it was a MASSIVE coincidence that a condition that had been getting steadily worse and more frequent over a 3-4 year period started to recede and over a few months disappeared completely after a course of Chinese Herbal medicine and acupuncture. I don’t really give a Poopie if was a coincidence or even a fluke. It went and I’m grateful it did.
Chinese Medicine will have its flaws, charlatan practitioners etc but so does all branches of medicine (Harold Shipman anyone??). It’s way too easy to ridicule something you don’t understand. I don’t understand it myself, I don’t need to, I tried it because I was desperate and it either worked or a HUGE coincidence happened. This was about 14-18 years ago and I’m still symptom free both from the cellulitis and lymph gland issues and indeed Crohns.
Perhaps it was stress, JAS, and you went to get some needles, relaxed and/or believed it might help, so it did. When they test this sort of thing double-blind etc, I'll take it on board. Stress is well known to be linked to outbreaks of psoriasis, eczema etc.


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Post by navyblueshorts Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:54 am

Re. Trump. See:

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:56 am

Those that wonder if they had SARS2 pre-Christmas; you didn't. If it was rife in UK then, where were the bodies piling up as a result of new respiratory disease in UK ICUs at that point? You think China spotted the pattern and we somehow didn't? Or is the suggestion now that Boris et al covered it up?
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Post by super_realist Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:02 am

JAS wrote:Unbelievable!! There are none so blind as those that WILL not see because they choose not to.

I’d never say I’d exclusively abandon western medicine (that would be bonkers) but I had a condition which couldn’t be diagnosed, treated or cured by what we would call conventional  means so I sought an alternative, not because I believed western medicine was crap and Chinese medicine was wonderful and scientifically proven (I really didn’t care, my prime objective was to get resolved a debilitating condition which was getting progressively worse). My doctors/consultants had pretty much exhausted their investigations and had only a vague notion of what it might be. I therefore looked at an alternative. It may we’ll be that it was a MASSIVE coincidence that a condition that had been getting steadily worse and more frequent over a 3-4 year period started to recede and over a few months disappeared completely after a course of Chinese Herbal medicine and acupuncture. I don’t really give a Poopie if was a coincidence or even a fluke. It went and I’m grateful it did.
Chinese Medicine will have its flaws, charlatan practitioners etc but so does all branches of medicine (Harold Shipman anyone??). It’s way too easy to ridicule something you don’t understand. I don’t understand it myself, I don’t need to, I tried it because I was desperate and it either worked or a HUGE coincidence happened. This was about 14-18 years ago and I’m still symptom free both from the cellulitis and lymph gland issues and indeed Crohns.

JAS, you sound like an evangelical. I will accept Chinese Medicine as soon as it is scientifically proven to work. Until then I am not justified in believing that is what relieved you of your  ailment. (nor are you)
It could have been many things which caused your turnaround, so what method did you use to determine it was the Chinese "medicine" and not some other reason?
Was it your lucky socks that is responsible for your beloved Rangers doing better in Europe this year? That's the level you are currently operating at, and accepting the nonsense from your " practitioner" that you are out of balance is simply crazy.

Harold Shipman wasn't a charlatan, he was a serial killer. What he did had nothing to do with properly proven Medicine not working and everything to do with him being a psychopath. Terrible analogy Jas. You can do better than that.

What is more coincidental, that a scientifically unproven method worked over a period of months, or that your symptoms receded naturally as they frequently over the same time period.

How did you rule out the magic dermatology fairy?


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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:06 am

navyblueshorts wrote:Those that wonder if they had SARS2 pre-Christmas; you didn't. If it was rife in UK then, where were the bodies piling up as a result of new respiratory disease in UK ICUs at that point? You think China spotted the pattern and we somehow didn't? Or is the suggestion now that Boris et al covered it up?

I fully agree but it does give credence to the idea that this has coincided with a particularly bad flu season.

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:26 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Those that wonder if they had SARS2 pre-Christmas; you didn't. If it was rife in UK then, where were the bodies piling up as a result of new respiratory disease in UK ICUs at that point? You think China spotted the pattern and we somehow didn't? Or is the suggestion now that Boris et al covered it up?

I fully agree but it does give credence to the idea that this has coincided with a particularly bad flu season.
Could be. Always makes me laugh those that say (when they have some form of 'cold') - oh, I had the flu recently. No, you didn't. If you did, you would have known it. It's a b-stard.
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Post by beninho Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:31 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Those that wonder if they had SARS2 pre-Christmas; you didn't. If it was rife in UK then, where were the bodies piling up as a result of new respiratory disease in UK ICUs at that point? You think China spotted the pattern and we somehow didn't? Or is the suggestion now that Boris et al covered it up?

I fully agree but it does give credence to the idea that this has coincided with a particularly bad flu season.
Could be. Always makes me laugh those that say (when they have some form of 'cold') - oh, I had the flu recently. No, you didn't. If you did, you would have known it. It's a b-stard.

I know that it wasn't actually covid, but there was a really bad viral infecion going round. Which is what the doctor told me and prescribed some antibiotics. Was curious to see whether others had it.

beninho

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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread Empty Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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