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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Roller_Coaster
Pal Joey
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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Just wondering what ailment you have which does not have a proven cure from modern medicine but for which Chinese "medicine" does.
Mac is the secretive one, not me.

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Post by super_realist Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:05 pm

Certainly out of leftfield that one Mac. Just can't see it myself.

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Post by JAS Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:19 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Kuennsberg just gives me the horn.

You do realise she was a fairly prominent young conservative at uni Mac? Guardian reader she ain’t :-p


Last edited by JAS on Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by dynamark Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:18 pm

Please Mac she is horrid.
Id rather go out with Peston he is weirdly brilliant

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Post by super_realist Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:50 pm

dynamark wrote:Please Mac she is horrid.
Id rather go out with Peston he is weirdly brilliant

He's another one guilty of "Gotcha" journalism too. Absolute bell end

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Post by McLaren Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:48 pm

Jas

I know. It adds to the appeal.
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Post by Be_the_ball Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:27 am

German newspaper suggests China should pay Germany $165bn, and Trump says US will seek damages. There is going to be a global backlash on this, how China react is going to be very interesting. If they don't accept responsibility and pay compensation there could be tariffs which would hurt their competitiveness and make it more cost effective to move manufacturing elsewhere. Interesting times ahead for the Global economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/trump-says-china-could-have-stopped-covid-19-and-suggests-us-will-seek-damages

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Post by super_realist Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:51 am

No country had any jurisdiction over China so threats of suing are effectively useless.
The only way would be sanctions, but that doesn't really help anyone, we are too reliant on China.

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Post by Be_the_ball Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:58 am

Tariffs were already applied to China by the US during Trumps trade war. This is a much more serious global impact. There is going to be big fallout from this.

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Post by Pal Joey Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:49 pm

I'm going to have to start using my plastic claw back-scratcher more sparingly. If it breaks I'm in big trouble.
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Post by Davie Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:09 pm

Was that I'm Never Wrong got a namecheck on a YouTube pub quiz tonight?

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Post by I'm never wrong Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:50 am

I've PM'd Davie and we've established it wasn't me. I must have someone looking like me (horror) or using my username.

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Post by Davie Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:22 am

I'm never wrong wrote:I've PM'd Davie and we've established it wasn't me. I must have someone looking like me (horror) or using my username.

Wasn't a photo or a username - just a shoutout to a family name. I happen to know your surname and it's not a particularly common one - there must be others around the Berkshire area!

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:50 am

super_realist wrote:I don't need to WHO tweeted in January that Coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from Human to Human, have been very sympathetic to China and have stated that they approve of them restarting wet markets.
Tin foil alert! No evidence in Jan re. human-human transmission. Your opinion re. China sympathy - I disagree they're more sympathetic to them than anyone else.
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:51 am

McLaren wrote:I haven't watched any of the briefings. What are they like?
picard
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:52 am

Be_the_ball wrote:German newspaper suggests China should pay Germany $165bn, and Trump says US will seek damages. There is going to be a global backlash on this, how China react is going to be very interesting. If they don't accept responsibility and pay compensation there could be tariffs which would hurt their competitiveness and make it more cost effective to move manufacturing elsewhere. Interesting times ahead for the Global economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/trump-says-china-could-have-stopped-covid-19-and-suggests-us-will-seek-damages
Laughable. China will just give them the finger. Trump, I understand; the rest, not so much. Why don't they grow the **** up?
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:54 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I don't need to WHO tweeted in January that Coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from Human to Human, have been very sympathetic to China and have stated that they approve of them restarting wet markets.
Tin foil alert! No evidence in Jan re. human-human transmission. Your opinion re. China sympathy - I disagree they're more sympathetic to them than anyone else.

Not tin foil. Just seem to be giving them rather free reign considering their part in all of this and also the flat refusal to recognise Taiwan when they completely ignored and pretended not to hear question about Taiwan shows simpering to China.
Who tweeted that there was no evidence of human to human transmission.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:04 am

I don't think it's that outlandish to claim that WHO have sympathetic towards China because they simply have and their refusal to place to blame on them speaks volumes.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:18 am

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:I don't need to WHO tweeted in January that Coronavirus couldn't be transmitted from Human to Human, have been very sympathetic to China and have stated that they approve of them restarting wet markets.
Tin foil alert! No evidence in Jan re. human-human transmission. Your opinion re. China sympathy - I disagree they're more sympathetic to them than anyone else.

Not tin foil. Just seem to be giving them rather free reign considering their part in all of this and also the flat refusal to recognise Taiwan when they completely ignored and pretended not to hear question about Taiwan shows simpering to China.
Who tweeted that there was no evidence of human to human transmission.
Your interpretation re. Taiwan.

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't think it's that outlandish to claim that WHO have sympathetic towards China because they simply have and their refusal to place to blame on them speaks volumes.
No, it doesn't. In early Jan, there was no actual evidence of human-human transmission. Looking back, you might say it was obvious, but that's the benefit of 20:20 hindsight. I thought it was an untenable position at the time, but there wasn't actual evidence, unless you think about and model transmission. Easy to look back and apportion blame. Not a good look, though, and most are doing so to hide their own failings.

🤷 I'm past caring now. This crisis has been an exemplar in blame, poor understanding of statistics, poor journalism, poor crisis management etc etc. People are looking for someone to blame, and China nicely fits the bill as the evil bogeyman. You can keep it; I'm not joining in yet, for all I dislike their régime.
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Post by Soul Requiem Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:23 am

Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:26 am

It's not my interpretation at all Navy. The WHO representative completely blanked the question when asked about Taiwan. What would you call it? Diversion?

How do you know there was no evidence in January of transmission? Coronavirus began in December in Wuhan.

Of course China has a part to play. MERS, SARS, Bird Flu and Coronavirus all began there and have been attributed to their revolting practices. I don't think we will get anything out of them, but that's no reason not to attach blame to them.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:00 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.
Was he part of the WHO?
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:05 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.
Was he part of the WHO?
Does he need to be? WHO tweeted one thing when there were people saying the opposite. Not very responsible to tweet what a duplicitous untrustworthy government were claiming.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:10 pm

super_realist wrote:It's not my interpretation at all Navy. The WHO representative completely blanked the question when asked about Taiwan. What would you call it? Diversion?
🤷 Didn't see/hear it, so hard for me to really comment. Maybe you're right.

super_realist wrote:How do you know there was no evidence in January of transmission? Coronavirus began in December in Wuhan.
There wasn't insofar as was proven and widely enough known. As I said, it was likely obvious from patterns of transmission, but for the WHO to confirm would require positive verification, I suggest.

super_realist wrote:Of course China has a part to play. MERS, SARS, Bird Flu and Coronavirus all began there and have been attributed to their revolting practices.  I don't think we will get anything out of them, but that's no reason not to attach blame to them.
I didn't say China don't have a part to play in the long-term solution for possible future pandemics. Don't put words in my mouth. China is billions of people, many of whom live cheek by jowl w/ livestock and are only recently emerging from subsistence in many places. Forget Ebola did you? These things happen - see cholera, typhoid, TB etc from the past and outbreaks didn't, generally, develop in China.
It's interesting - you pan Mac for a lack of proportion etc, but when you have an axe to grind cf. China/WHO, that doesn't stop you from going down the same path.

Edit: Actually, MERS didn't originate in China, either. Clue's in the name.


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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:12 pm

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.
Was he part of the WHO?
Does he need to be? WHO tweeted one thing when there were people saying the opposite. Not very responsible to tweet what a duplicitous untrustworthy government were claiming.
Yes, of course he does, in this context. We're talking about the role of the WHO in confirming human-human transmission in a possible new pandemic. He was one doctor raising concerns about a new virus.
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:16 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.
Was he part of the WHO?
Does he need to be? WHO tweeted one thing when there were people saying the opposite. Not very responsible to tweet what a duplicitous untrustworthy government were claiming.
Yes, of course he does, in this context. We're talking about the role of the WHO in confirming human-human transmission in a possible new pandemic. He was one doctor raising concerns about a new virus.

Do you think WHO should just get their information from a famously unreliable source then? Or should they have actually done some research themselves?

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:51 pm

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Li Wenliang warned the Chinese government way back in December so that isn't actually true Navy.
Was he part of the WHO?
Does he need to be? WHO tweeted one thing when there were people saying the opposite. Not very responsible to tweet what a duplicitous untrustworthy government were claiming.
Yes, of course he does, in this context. We're talking about the role of the WHO in confirming human-human transmission in a possible new pandemic. He was one doctor raising concerns about a new virus.

Do you think WHO should just get their information from a famously unreliable source then? Or should they have actually done some research themselves?
Whatever. You have your belief - nothing I say will change it, I'm sure.
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:01 pm

I just don't think WHO were being sceptical enough bearing in mind China's history of respiratory diseases. Seems rather naive to trust their word on whether it was possible to have human transmission.
It's not a belief, its a position of common sense.

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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:37 pm

Super

How should these countries be dealt with.

Mexico (08/09 swine flu)
Saudi /Qatar/Egypt (12 Mers)
Hong Kong (bird flu 97 & 03)
UK (Cjd 80's and 90's)

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:40 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

How should these countries be dealt with.

Mexico (08/09 swine flu)
Saudi /Qatar/Egypt (12 Mers)
Hong Kong (bird flu 97 & 03)
UK (Cjd 80's and 90's)


I don't think you have grasped the point Mac. Did any of those governments make the claim that any of those diseases were not transferable to humans just as China did, and did the WHO believe that claim? The answer to both is no.

The point is that WHO got the entire world off to a slow start by believing what China said on the spread of the disease rather than find out for themselves.

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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:58 pm

Super

Baring in mind that they would not have had the data to confirm human to human transmission at that point what message do you think the WHO should have put out?
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Post by kwinigolfer Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:59 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

How should these countries be dealt with.

Mexico (08/09 swine flu)
Saudi /Qatar/Egypt (12 Mers)
Hong Kong (bird flu 97 & 03)
UK (Cjd 80's and 90's)


I don't think you have grasped the point Mac. Did any of those governments make the claim that any of those diseases were not transferable to humans just as China did, and did the WHO believe that claim? The answer to both is no.

The point is that WHO got the entire world off to a slow start by believing what China said on the spread of the disease rather than find out for themselves.


In the context of coronavirus, there is a "Severe Blood Shortage" in the US.
For many years, both in GB and in the US, up to the late 90's, I was a regular blood donor.
Then the Red Cross here decided that, as I'd lived in England for two years in the early Mad Cow 80's, I was no longer eligible to offer my every-two-months "armful".
(No record of any Americans needing blood while travelling in GB waiting until a suitable supply arrived from MAGA of course.)
Couldn't be many better examples of cutting off one's nose, etc.

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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:02 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Baring in mind that they would not have had the data to confirm human to human transmission at that point what message do you think the WHO should have put out?

Never mind your naturist proclivities Mac, I would expect WHO to reserve comment until they can be sure, wouldn't you? Especially in light of China's history in such diseases and not being a trustworthy state.

Of course there's an element of hindsight here, but it does appear that WHO are rather pandering towards the Chinese when there should be condemnation, which there still hasn't been. I wonder why?
You wouldnt trust Russia on this, so why trust China?

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:54 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

Baring in mind that they would not have had the data to confirm human to human transmission at that point what message do you think the WHO should have put out?

Never mind your naturist proclivities Mac, I would expect WHO to reserve comment until they can be sure, wouldn't you? Especially in light of China's history in such diseases and not being a trustworthy state.

Of course there's an element of hindsight here, but it does appear that WHO are rather pandering towards the Chinese when there should be condemnation, which there still hasn't been. I wonder why?
You wouldnt trust Russia on this, so why trust China?
Because it's nonsensical?
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:03 pm

You'd prefer China to just carry on as usual and permit the type of conditions to prevail which caused this problem in the first place? That sounds like a good idea. Laugh

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Post by JAS Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:11 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Super

Baring in mind that they would not have had the data to confirm human to human transmission at that point what message do you think the WHO should have put out?

Never mind your naturist proclivities Mac, I would expect WHO to reserve comment until they can be sure, wouldn't you? Especially in light of China's history in such diseases and not being a trustworthy state.

Of course there's an element of hindsight here, but it does appear that WHO are rather pandering towards the Chinese when there should be condemnation, which there still hasn't been. I wonder why?
You wouldnt trust Russia on this, so why trust China?

Condemnation based on unequivocal proof...obviously!!!

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:21 pm

super_realist wrote:You'd prefer China to just carry on as usual and permit the type of conditions to prevail which caused this problem in the first place? That sounds like a good idea. Laugh
Did I say that? No. Once again - stop putting words in my mouth. You're very good at extrapolating (wrongly) to generate some sort of justification for saying what it is you really want to say.
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:24 pm

So why do you think criticism of the way they behave is not a good idea?
Why would it be nonsensical (your words) to not condemn China?

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Post by McLaren Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:04 pm

Super

I agree that the WHO and other international organisations should strongly consider extreme changes to wet market practices if they are found to be the point of animal to human transmission of covid 19.

But what does that have to do with what evidence the WHO had to work with in January?
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Post by super_realist Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:31 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I agree that the WHO and other international organisations should strongly consider extreme changes to wet market practices if they are found to be the point of animal to human transmission of covid 19.

But what does that have to do with what evidence the WHO had to work with in January?

Mac, the issue is why an organisation like WHO would take for granted the word of a notoriously unreliable country. Why weren't they withholding their view until it was proven to be non transmitable? Surely they have the resources, knowledge and testing facilities to look at the virus themselves? Why rely on the untrustworthy word of a communist state?

If WHO didn't have confirmation that what China was claiming was true, then they should not have tweeted what China was saying.

Also, the insinuation that China form some that they shouldn't be condemned is stupid. Do we not condemn America for their gun laws and their need for modification? Not sure why China shouldn't be held up for scrutiny when the science is leading to poor hygiene in wet markets being the likely cause.

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Post by dynamark Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:16 pm

Be interesting to see what Bossa says today.6 weeks now and I'm starting to loose interest in everything.No get up and go done the painting lawn looks like augusta early nights bad dreams .Shows how bad it is when I look forward to conversing on here!

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:18 pm

Hopefully he'll tell the Thursday night morons on Westminster Bridge to eff off.

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Post by dynamark Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:33 pm

Super you have lost me there? Question time?

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Post by I'm never wrong Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:42 pm

dynamark wrote:Super you have lost me there? Question time?
No, everyone who lines up on Westminster Bridge to clap for carers. Too many people too close together.

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:45 pm

dynamark wrote:Super you have lost me there? Question time?

You'll see it tonight no doubt. London residents appear to think that social distancing can be thrown out the window on a Thursday night, so long as you are doing it for the NHS.
Police, residents all doing it together and barely a fag paper between them as if it's the Notting Hill carnival.

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Post by Davie Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:49 pm

dynamark wrote:Be interesting to see what Bossa says today.6 weeks now and I'm starting to loose interest in everything.No get up and go done the painting lawn looks like augusta early nights bad dreams .Shows how bad it is when I look forward to conversing on here!

As far as I know, although he is making an appearance at the daily press conference today it's not yet time for the 6 week review. It's so far only 5.5 weeks and the review is due next Thursday. Expect nothing today

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Post by super_realist Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:58 pm

I'm anticipating at least another 2 weeks, one of the main criteria is a reduction in deaths, and I don't think that's remotely low enough at the moment, especially with the grim reaper waving his scythe towards the coffin dodgers in Care homes.
It's also rather odd that no one is placing any blame on care home owners for lack of PPE as its their responsible to do so, not the government as most are private , and why are these residents who have C19, not presenting at the hospital instead of karking it in a care home?

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Post by dynamark Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:00 pm

Get you .The polis were round mine last week because my son had been stripping a few bits from his defunct BMW to sell online he was on private land didn't come into mine isolated but technically doesn't live here so slightly out of order and someone called the law despite dozens of folk out jogging dog walking(if you have a dog you are special case)horses kids on scooters.Anyway they turned up two in the car about 3 feet apart no masks.
Davie I just want to know they are planning our future not expecting any dates

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Post by dynamark Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:07 pm

True Super most care homes are private sector often with contracts from Local authourites and they have been happily jogging along now the pressure is on They do deserve max guidance and back up though.The guys that owned our golf club until last year have two large setups and believe me they are not short of a couple of bob.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Fri May 01, 2020 11:51 am

I'm never wrong wrote:
dynamark wrote:Super you have lost me there? Question time?
No, everyone who lines up on Westminster Bridge to clap for carers. Too many people too close together.

Patrick Reed said that it was the camera angle and that there was nothing wrong with the distance between them

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Post by I'm never wrong Fri May 01, 2020 12:51 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:Patrick Reed said that it was the camera angle and that there was nothing wrong with the distance between them

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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