Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

I'm fine with immigration of people who bring value to the country in one way or another, who wouldn't be? What I'm not in favour of is people who bring nothing to the country in terms of skills, education, money etc. I wouldn't expect the many millions of useless Britons to be able to go the other way either just for balance.

What policy is has actively being engaged to stop people of a particular race unable to enter the country anyway? I've not seen any.

[beninho]

Of course they shouldn't be proresting at this time. But it just so happens yo be a time that a movement has happened for black people, triggered by the murder in America of an innocent man.

[Soul Requiem]

Thats no excuse for stupidity in this country, endangering the lives of thousands.

[pedro]

Ben, most protesters are white as well. And why are we over here breaching guidelines to protest against what’s happening in the US when we have our own (racial) issues? Too much snowflake BS if you ask me.

[super_realist]

Of course they shouldn't be proresting at this time. But it just so happens yo be a time that a movement has happened for black people, triggered by the murder in America of an innocent man.  

Why weren't they protesting in solidarity of Gilet Jaune, and police brutality in France? How about Hong Kong and what is happening there right now? How about protesting about China's treatment of ethnic minorities? How about protesting about the British man shot by Netherlands police recently? Why do they pick and choose which cause is worthy of their time?


He didn't deserve to die but you dont know he was innocent at all.
Just a load of mostly white middle class, massively hypocritical virtue signallers.

[beninho]

Morning all.

Realist, you seem to be telling generally black people what they should or shouldn't protest about? If you think it is, purely because of America I think you probably need to educate yourself.

Also trying to question the innocence of George Floyd, who can only ever be innocent as he was never charged of found guilty of what he was accused of, using a counterfeit note, is also not a good look.

Unsure what makes you think anyobe is hypocritical though. Though, your obvious disregard for guidelines doesn't put you in a position to comment

Virtue signalling - generally a phrase used by an imbecile.

[beninho]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

[beninho]

Thats no excuse for stupidity in this country, endangering the lives of thousands.

Which is very true, unfortunately not much can be done when the vote was in December.

[beninho]

Ben, most protesters are white as well. And why are we over here breaching guidelines to protest against what’s happening in the US when we have our own (racial) issues? Too much snowflake BS if you ask me.

In general l, white people protesting along with black people should be praised. My understanding is that the us issues are being used for people in the UK to also express concerns with how they are treated here. Its just sparked the whole movement.

[super_realist]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

Is it untrue though? Why are these people protesting about something which isn't even a problem here? These idiots are like the Extinction Rebellion idiots, making up lies on their placards. I saw one yesterday "They're killing our families". Utter rubbish.

[super_realist]

Morning all.

Realist, you seem to be telling generally black people what they should or shouldn't protest about?  If you think it is, purely because of America I think you probably need to educate yourself.

Also trying to question the innocence of George Floyd, who can only ever be innocent as he was never charged of found guilty of what he was accused of, using a counterfeit note, is also not a good look.

Unsure what makes you think anyobe is hypocritical though.  Though, your obvious disregard for guidelines doesn't put you in a position to comment  

Virtue signalling - generally a phrase used by an imbecile.

They are mostly white people as far as I can see and this is not the time to be having mass gathering protests. When have I ever told them what they can protest about? I've only ever said that their protest is taking place at a stupid time in our history and that police brutality isn't really a thing in the UK.

How can you not think these people are hypocritical? They were frothing at the mouth about Cummings due to the perceived risk, then they put even more people at risk. Do you know what hypocrisy means?

[beninho]

Morning all.

Realist, you seem to be telling generally black people what they should or shouldn't protest about?  If you think it is, purely because of America I think you probably need to educate yourself.

Also trying to question the innocence of George Floyd, who can only ever be innocent as he was never charged of found guilty of what he was accused of, using a counterfeit note, is also not a good look.

Unsure what makes you think anyobe is hypocritical though.  Though, your obvious disregard for guidelines doesn't put you in a position to comment  

Virtue signalling - generally a phrase used by an imbecile.

They are mostly white people as far as I can see and this is not the time to be having mass gathering protests. When have I ever told them what they can protest about? I've only ever said that their protest is taking place at a stupid time in our history and that police brutality isn't really a thing in the UK.

How can you not think these people are hypocritical? They were frothing at the mouth about Cummings due to the perceived risk, then they put even more people at risk. Do you know what hypocrisy means?

Your claims of hypocrisy is based on guess work though. I guess you don't know anyone protesting? So your guess is that everyone out protesting had issues with Cummings. Some maybe, some maybe not. We also have people who went to the beach complaining about protestors. Its all over the place.

My understanding is that the British protests are not just about police brutality, though it wasn't long ago the police was declared as institutionaly racist. But also ther perceived injustices or just treatment. Should it be done now, nope. But should they wait for another black man murdered to bring it up again when it garners the full media attention. Protesting is better when it is actually noticed.

[super_realist]

It is almost guaranteed that the vast majority of these people were opposed to Cummings because most of the country were.
Anyone breaking social distancing rules is up for criticism whether that's beach, bandwagon rent a mob protests or Rosie Duffield or Cummings, but you only seem to want to criticise those who oppose your political position.

Protesting is better when its message is not clouded by the stupidity of the protestors.

[beninho]

You seem to think I have said I agree with people out protesting.

Understanding it, not thinking people who have opinions are idiots is not the same as agreeing with it.

I think I have said on many occasions thats its not something I would do, neither is going to the beach. But, i just don't have as strong views on them all as you.

[Soul Requiem]

No strong views about thousands protesting with no social distancing at all but you had strong opinions on one person and his immediate family going for a drive. The word imbecile comes to mind, does it not?

[beninho]

No strong views about thousands protesting with no social distancing at all but you had strong opinions on one person and his immediate family going for a drive. The word imbecile comes to mind, does it not?

I have the same views for the beach dwellers, the protestors. They shouldn't be doing it.

I'm not getting back into a Cummings debate with a brexiteer tory. It serves no good.

[Soul Requiem]

It's serves no good debating anything with someone who feels the need to virtue signal constantly and is too afraid to say anything negative about the ridiculous protesting.

[beninho]

Do you understand why people are protesting?

And virtue signalling, again, is that the best you can cone up with? Its such a ridiculous phrase. Its just means nothing. Its like people having a go at Liberals or anti fascists.

[Soul Requiem]

The why is not at all important right now, are you struggling to understand that? I'm not arguing against the reasoning at all.

If the boot fits Ben, it's all you ever do and you come up with such pathetic defences for it too.

[beninho]

I'm bot defending anything. I say I understand why, but I'm not defending. Why the constant need to create an argument.

[westisbest]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

Is it untrue though? Why are these people protesting about something which isn't even a problem here? These idiots are like the Extinction Rebellion idiots, making up lies on their placards. I saw one yesterday "They're killing our families". Utter rubbish.

Super. Sorry, are you saying rasism is not a problem in the UK?

I’d say it is. You only have to look at some football fans for an example.

[super_realist]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

Is it untrue though? Why are these people protesting about something which isn't even a problem here? These idiots are like the Extinction Rebellion idiots, making up lies on their placards. I saw one yesterday "They're killing our families". Utter rubbish.

Super. Sorry, are you saying rasism is not a problem in the UK?

I’d say it is. You only have to look at some football fans for an example.

No, Where did I say or even imply that? I'm talking about people being killed by the police in similar incidents to this which is certainly not the same in Britain. I heard one of this rent a mob, a middle class black girl claim she was more concerned about dying through police brutality in the UK than she was about spreading Covid, which is a laughably stupid thing to say.

[super_realist]

You seem to think I have said I agree with people out protesting.

Understanding it, not thinking people who have opinions are idiots is not the same as agreeing with it.

I think I have said on many occasions thats its not something I would do, neither is going to the beach. But, i just don't have as strong views on them all as you.

No, I just think you have double standards. You were absolutely enraged by Cummings, but it's been pretty hard to tease out even the slightest indignation about these people who are moronic on an equal level.

Everyone is held to the same standard, that's how we beat something like this.

[beninho]

You seem to think I have said I agree with people out protesting.

Understanding it, not thinking people who have opinions are idiots is not the same as agreeing with it.

I think I have said on many occasions thats its not something I would do, neither is going to the beach. But, i just don't have as strong views on them all as you.

No, I just think you have double standards. You were absolutely enraged by Cummings, but it's been pretty hard to tease out even the slightest indignation about these people who are moronic on an equal level.

Everyone is held to the same standard, that's how we beat something like this.

I'm not sure if I need to say it, but they are different things. At different times, with different actions and fir different reasons by different people. Well that's how I see it anyway.

Again, you seem to be making stuff up about trading out indignation, in fact that's just a lie. I've said its wrong.

[super_realist]

Yeah, Cummings was far less serious (not that I support his actions)

If I get pulled over now, I've got an arsenal of excuses, I can just say I'm off to a protest.

[dynamark]

Whatever happened to extinction rebellion?I suppose now theres no flights,little transport,no work,economy down the pan,everyone riding a bike they have nothing left to campaign for.
Those gatherings should not have happened but they were always going to and lucky no one was killed falling from their horse.
World cup final this afternoon lets hope the result is the same as last time

[beninho]

Yeah, Cummings was far less serious (not that I support his actions)

If I get pulled over now, I've got an arsenal of excuses, I can just say I'm off to a protest.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

[Soul Requiem]

Opinion or simple fact.

[westisbest]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

Is it untrue though? Why are these people protesting about something which isn't even a problem here? These idiots are like the Extinction Rebellion idiots, making up lies on their placards. I saw one yesterday "They're killing our families". Utter rubbish.

Super. Sorry, are you saying rasism is not a problem in the UK?

I’d say it is. You only have to look at some football fans for an example.

No, Where did I say or even imply that? I'm talking about people being killed by the police in similar incidents to this which is certainly not the same in Britain. I heard one of this rent a mob, a middle class black girl claim she was more concerned about dying through police brutality in the UK than she was about spreading Covid, which is a laughably stupid thing to say.

Well, you said why are they protesting about something which isn’t even a problem here.
I thought you meant rasism wasn’t an issue here.

Only a question.

[McLaren]

Super

From what I can gather you don't approve of protesting regardless of the cause?

[beninho]

I am already getting annoyed with all the bloody queuing. Queuing for Sainsbury's queuing fir a coffee.

First World problems I know, but annoying none the less.

[Soul Requiem]

On the subject of racism being a problem in this country I would personally point to football and two players in particular; John Terry and Luis Suarez, a pair of racist scumbags who in an ideal world would have received lifetime bans. The issue isn't so much the pair but their reception by fans based solely on the teams they played for, revered by Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans respectively purely because of who they played for.

I dont believe we're an overly racist country although it does of course exist but the existence on the whole is more subtle and harder to pinpoint so harder to eradicate. Sport is the perfect place to start but on the whole action is too soft, fines achieve nothing so it's time teams were deducted points for the actions of their so called fans.

[dynamark]

Ben I wouldn't go to Sainsbury huge shop lots of people pottering about queues as you say.Local coop or Tesco is a much quicker job and they've got the basics.In and out .
The supermarket big shop thing seems to have become a engrained must do for a proportion of us.Have you been to an M and S full of elderly folk having a day out frankly.

[I'm never wrong]

Doing this click and collect thing. At my local supermarket, normally you have to queue. Not with click and collect, go to head of queue, tell the customer service desk (which is just inside the door) your name and then wait outside the (closed) shop next door to have your groceries delivered on a little trolley to you. 5 minutes, job done.

[beninho]

Whike the queue to get into Sainsbury's is annoying, I quite enjoy the hour or do out the house! I started using the self scan which is pretty good. Also, no way I'm prepared enough to online oder, I like to pick and choose as I go.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

I have no idea if anyone has tried to isolate the effect of masks if a population wears them during an epidemic (although I am sure someone has). But would you agree that lab tests on droplet and spray would not give the full picture on whether masks are worth wearing?

In SE Asia it is thought that the science backs up wearing masks for covid.

I thought that was something I mentioned earlier i.e. associated behaviours detracting from any benefit overall. As a cynic, I wouldn't be surprised it people are told to wear masks at least partly so they feel a bit better.

[navyblueshorts]

Nothing to do with Drumpf, or Merkel etc; much more to do with people saying, this might help, certainly can't harm¹, doesn't hurt the economy, just do it.
A bit like the daft imposition of travel quarantine², making things up as they go along.

Anyway, much better to have 4 deaths than 40,000.

¹ Yes, it can, which is part of the issue. The complexities of this pandemic, the age groups it targets, the nations that have done 'well' and 'poorly' - all those things have too many variables to unpick just now.
² Why is this daft, pray? Especially when internal infections rates/incidences are low enough for incoming infectees to influence the local dynamic?

[navyblueshorts]

You say liberal like its a bad thing, like trump talking about anti fascists.

Are you liberal?

I mean in the way that the Liberal press are described, the simpering pathetic papers like The Guardian and Channel 4 News who if this was Tories would be frothing at the mouth, but because it isn't, they are all in favour of it, a bit like you admitted to being this morning.
This is an absolute scandal that it is being allowed to happen and no person who was sane could think this ought to be permissable.  Why have the government and terminal Plank Sadiq Khan done nothing about this?

Are you fine with the mass hypocrisy of these protestors?

It's wrong in the context of Covid guidance. Get over it. Police are being pragmatic, given the inflamed tensions. You want to see them wade in? Get real.

[westisbest]

Have done click and collect before. Or try to get deliveries.

[navyblueshorts]

Protesting is fine and it’s for a very serious issue all around the world, not just the states.

Now unfortunately is not the time for hundreds of people to be protesting, or any other large gatherings.

As far as the States is concerned, though, they're protesting the wrong thing.
Good that they're doing the BLM thing, but that helps to miss the point about intolerance in the US, Black, White, Yellow, Brown, some sort of discrimination is everywhere, and it starts from the top down.

Ah. The #AllLivesMatter thing? You're correct of course, but in the mode of these boards, that could be construed as whataboutery, don't you think?

[navyblueshorts]

Of course they shouldn't be proresting at this time. But it just so happens yo be a time that a movement has happened for black people, triggered by the murder in America of an innocent man.  

Why weren't they protesting in solidarity of Gilet Jaune, and police brutality in France? How about Hong Kong and what is happening there right now? How about protesting about China's treatment of ethnic minorities? How about protesting about the British man shot by Netherlands police recently? Why do they pick and choose which cause is worthy of their time?  


He didn't deserve to die but you dont know he was innocent at all.
Just a load of mostly white  middle class, massively hypocritical virtue signallers.

#Whataboutery

[navyblueshorts]

Just realised, you are basically quoting Katie Hopkins. Thats what she has been saying on her twitter. So, that's a good bedfellow.

Is it untrue though? Why are these people protesting about something which isn't even a problem here? These idiots are like the Extinction Rebellion idiots, making up lies on their placards. I saw one yesterday "They're killing our families". Utter rubbish.

Seriously. Think about what you're saying. Just once.

[navyblueshorts]

No strong views about thousands protesting with no social distancing at all but you had strong opinions on one person and his immediate family going for a drive. The word imbecile comes to mind, does it not?

Still not getting it re. Cummings? What he did is likely to have caused more damage to the behaviour of people re. Covid than anything else. Yes, he was just one person, but that's missing the point...and you know it .

[navyblueshorts]

On the subject of racism being a problem in this country I would personally point to football and two players in particular; John Terry and Luis Suarez, a pair of racist scumbags who in an ideal world would have received lifetime bans. The issue isn't so much the pair but their reception by fans based solely on the teams they played for, revered by Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans respectively purely because of who they played for.

I dont believe we're an overly racist country although it does of course exist but the existence on the whole is more subtle and harder to pinpoint so harder to eradicate. Sport is the perfect place to start but on the whole action is too soft, fines achieve nothing so it's time teams were deducted points for the actions of their so called fans.

Terry, I can definitely buy. Suarez? Nah. Racist comments, sure, but actually racist? I don't think so; not given his family. If you were stupid/naive and wanted to wind up a black opponent in the EPL to try and gain an advantage, what might you say to him?

[McLaren]

I can't decide if #alllivesmatter is racist or just totally missing the point of targeted campaigns?


Should cancer research or chest heart and stroke face calls of #alldiseasesmatter?

[navyblueshorts]

I can't decide if #alllivesmatter is racist or just totally missing the point of targeted campaigns?


Should cancer research or chest heart and stroke face calls of #alldiseasesmatter?

Reasonable analogy. That said, I think to tar all people who mention 'all lives matter' as racists is dumb.

[Soul Requiem]

No strong views about thousands protesting with no social distancing at all but you had strong opinions on one person and his immediate family going for a drive. The word imbecile comes to mind, does it not?

Still not getting it re. Cummings? What he did is likely to have caused more damage to the behaviour of people re. Covid than anything else. Yes, he was just one person, but that's missing the point...and you know it .

I'm not the missing the point at all, people using him as an excuse would have done the same regardless of his actions, it's just a convenient excuse for idiots. Their actions impact on far more lives.

[Soul Requiem]

On the subject of racism being a problem in this country I would personally point to football and two players in particular; John Terry and Luis Suarez, a pair of racist scumbags who in an ideal world would have received lifetime bans. The issue isn't so much the pair but their reception by fans based solely on the teams they played for, revered by Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans respectively purely because of who they played for.

I dont believe we're an overly racist country although it does of course exist but the existence on the whole is more subtle and harder to pinpoint so harder to eradicate. Sport is the perfect place to start but on the whole action is too soft, fines achieve nothing so it's time teams were deducted points for the actions of their so called fans.

Terry, I can definitely buy. Suarez? Nah. Racist comments, sure, but actually racist? I don't think so; not given his family. If you were stupid/naive and wanted to wind up a black opponent in the EPL to try and gain an advantage, what might you say to him?

I wouldnt wish to wind up a black player any more than a white player in the first place and as a rugby player feel I'm above such childishness.

[beninho]

On the subject of racism being a problem in this country I would personally point to football and two players in particular; John Terry and Luis Suarez, a pair of racist scumbags who in an ideal world would have received lifetime bans. The issue isn't so much the pair but their reception by fans based solely on the teams they played for, revered by Chelsea fans and Liverpool fans respectively purely because of who they played for.

I dont believe we're an overly racist country although it does of course exist but the existence on the whole is more subtle and harder to pinpoint so harder to eradicate. Sport is the perfect place to start but on the whole action is too soft, fines achieve nothing so it's time teams were deducted points for the actions of their so called fans.

Terry, I can definitely buy. Suarez? Nah. Racist comments, sure, but actually racist? I don't think so; not given his family. If you were stupid/naive and wanted to wind up a black opponent in the EPL to try and gain an advantage, what might you say to him?

I wouldnt wish to wind up a black player any more than a white player in the first place and as a rugby player feel I'm above such childishness.

Don't rugby players just grab players by the man sausage or something then laugh it off?

[beninho]

I can't decide if #alllivesmatter is racist or just totally missing the point of targeted campaigns?


Should cancer research or chest heart and stroke face calls of #alldiseasesmatter?

Reasonable analogy. That said, I think to tar all people who mention 'all lives matter' as racists is dumb.

They are probably not all racist, but surely most would realise that flaggibg all lives matter is generally used as an excuse to belittle the black lives matter movement. Either they don't realise, and are generally stupid or they do realise and probably a bit racist.

[Soul Requiem]

Or perhaps different people have different opinions and different priorities in the middle of a pandemic, easier to call them racist though I suppose.

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