The summer of cricket 2020

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too

Tidy start from the English openers. Chase coming in now, could be a key passage of the game as the pitch seems unresponsive to the seamers.

Chase on pretty early...I guess they aren't expecting to race through England quickly and are intent on not flattening the key bowlers all at once. Sensible I think.
Need Joseph to stand up this innings , can't leave it all to the top three.

Burns and Sibley have played nicely so far . Good to see their intent in looking for runs - no risks but they've gone at about 3.5 per over with some good running. Good first hour for England

About as perfect a first hour we could’ve asked for - let’s hope one of these two now in can go on and get that big score we need

Excellent start from Burns and Sibley. Only two balls have misbehaved in that first hour, and if the pitch stays mostly true England will fancy building a decent lead.

Been reading some criticism of Broad on BBC idiot comment page over his frank reaction to his omission. Personally can't see a problem on what I've read : he didn't rubbish his teammates , just honestly said how hurt he was to be left out. On his form last year I think he has a fair point ! Anyway surely better to have a man passionate and determined enough to show the selectors they're wrong than someone too meekly accepting being sidelined ?

I note though Atherton already muttering about the idea that Old Trafford might suit the faster bowlers so maybe bringing him back immediately would be a questionable move ... He'll be ready to explode if he's left out again I think !

Still an innings to go here so how the incumbents perform second time around might be significant. But it seems to me the appetite in the media for pushing change - and pace at all costs - has perhaps overflowed into the selection panel...

We will see as the summer goes on . But in any case I am not a huge fan of the notion that preparing for an Ashes Series a couple of years away should be prioritised over ensuring winning the current matches ; so I hope that isn't going to be the number one concern.

Zaltzman on the BBC live thread wrote:This is England's sixth fifty partnership in their last 12 innings. They had only had six fifty opening stands in the previous 36 innings.
Since the tour of India in 2016-17 England had nine fifty opening stands up until the end of last summer.
They have now had six in seven Tests since Sibley came into team at the start of the New Zealand tour last winter.

A good stat there from Zaltzman. I think Burns and Sibley look a really solid partnership, especially with Root/Stokes/Pope at 4/5/6 all naturally aggressive players.

That said I do still feel that Sibley gets tied down by spinners very easily. He's never going to be a player who will look to dominate spinners hitting over the top like Trescothick or even one who looks to use his feet like Strauss was good at. He needs to develop his game against spin to rotate the strike and relieve some pressure though as currently it's an easy way for the bowling side to race through overs whilst Sibley is at the crease. With his huge stride and reach he should be able to develop a good sweep shot, smothering the spin and looking to work the ball square for runs.

alfie wrote:Been reading some criticism of Broad on BBC idiot comment page over his frank reaction to his omission. Personally can't see a problem on what I've read : he didn't rubbish his teammates , just honestly said how hurt he was to be left out. On his form last year I think he has a fair point ! Anyway surely better to have a man passionate and determined enough to show the selectors they're wrong than someone too meekly accepting being sidelined ?

I said yesterday i'd be dropping him for the foreseeable for those comments, if you're not picked then you shut up, simple as that really.

Just seeing the pitch starting to misbehave more and, with the aid of Chase's economical seven overs and Holder's tight line, England are still behind by 50. Though it's been a good ninety minutes for the batting side, the English are still well adrift of a match-winning lead.

Last 45 balls have cost two runs, in actual fact!

I don't think either Burns or Sibley are too bothered by the scoring rate, as long as they're still out there they will continue doing what they are.

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:Been reading some criticism of Broad on BBC idiot comment page over his frank reaction to his omission. Personally can't see a problem on what I've read : he didn't rubbish his teammates , just honestly said how hurt he was to be left out. On his form last year I think he has a fair point ! Anyway surely better to have a man passionate and determined enough to show the selectors they're wrong than someone too meekly accepting being sidelined ?

I said yesterday i'd be dropping him for the foreseeable for those comments, if you're not picked then you shut up, simple as that really.

So anyone who is left out should tell interviewers to p... Off ? Or lie about how they feel ? I guess we will have to agree to differ on this one , Soul.

Back on the field , I see a couple of balls misbehaving. Interesting.

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:Been reading some criticism of Broad on BBC idiot comment page over his frank reaction to his omission. Personally can't see a problem on what I've read : he didn't rubbish his teammates , just honestly said how hurt he was to be left out. On his form last year I think he has a fair point ! Anyway surely better to have a man passionate and determined enough to show the selectors they're wrong than someone too meekly accepting being sidelined ?

I said yesterday i'd be dropping him for the foreseeable for those comments, if you're not picked then you shut up, simple as that really.

So anyone who is left out should tell interviewers to p... Off ? Or lie about how they feel ?  I guess we will have to agree to differ on this one , Soul.

Back on the field , I see a couple of balls misbehaving. Interesting.

Do his comments benefit the team in anyway? If the answer is no then he should keep his mouth shut.

alfie wrote:Been reading some criticism of Broad on BBC idiot comment page over his frank reaction to his omission. Personally can't see a problem on what I've read : he didn't rubbish his teammates , just honestly said how hurt he was to be left out. On his form last year I think he has a fair point ! Anyway surely better to have a man passionate and determined enough to show the selectors they're wrong than someone too meekly accepting being sidelined ?

I note though Atherton already muttering about the idea that Old Trafford might suit the faster bowlers so maybe bringing him back immediately would be a questionable move ... He'll be ready to explode if he's left out again I think !

Still an innings to go here so how the incumbents perform second time around might be significant. But it seems to me the appetite in the media for pushing change - and pace at all costs - has perhaps overflowed into the selection panel...

We will see as the summer goes on . But  in any case I am not a huge fan of the notion that preparing for an Ashes Series a couple of years away should be prioritised over ensuring winning the current matches ; so I hope that isn't going to be the number one concern.

Didn't have a problem with Broad's comments. He wasn't abusive, he just spoke with great passion about how hurt he was to be left out. Nothing wrong with that. I'd much rather hear sportspeople talk like human beings rather than carefully crafted PR automatons.

With regards to the Ashes, I'm not sure how sensible it is to build plans around a bowler as injury-prone as Mark Wood. There again, England are likely to be without Anderson and, possibly, Broad for that tour.

Duty281 wrote:Just seeing the pitch starting to misbehave more and, with the aid of Chase's economical seven overs and Holder's tight line, England are still behind by 50. Though it's been a good ninety minutes for the batting side, the English are still well adrift of a match-winning lead.

Last 45 balls have cost two runs, in actual fact!

Yes. Chase is doing a good job strangling the run rate. But risky attacking isn't these chaps' job : first task is to try and get through to lunch. Longer they bat the better for later players against an older ball . And the more they make Holder in particular work now ...

Oh dear, Burns throws it away to one of the worst balls Chase has bowled today. Was looking so serene and untroubled to that point.

Just the pick-me-up the West Indies needed before the interval.

Aarrrghh. Oh Rory. You can see him kicking himself the second it left the bat.

I don't like being negative with the Burns/Sibley partnership as compared to our issues opening the batting for years I feel very positive about them as a pairing. That there feels like a symptom of two batsman who can get tied down pretty easily, especially against spin.

It's good bowling by the Windies. Chase and Holder keeping it tight then latterly Joseph doing the same. That's all they had to do though. Just put it on a spot for a prolonged period and the runs dried up then the poor shot comes.

king_carlos wrote:

Zaltzman on the BBC live thread wrote:This is England's sixth fifty partnership in their last 12 innings. They had only had six fifty opening stands in the previous 36 innings.
Since the tour of India in 2016-17 England had nine fifty opening stands up until the end of last summer.
They have now had six in seven Tests since Sibley came into team at the start of the New Zealand tour last winter.

A good stat there from Zaltzman. I think Burns and Sibley look a really solid partnership, especially with Root/Stokes/Pope at 4/5/6 all naturally aggressive players.

That said I do still feel that Sibley gets tied down by spinners very easily. He's never going to be a player who will look to dominate spinners hitting over the top like Trescothick or even one who looks to use his feet like Strauss was good at. He needs to develop his game against spin to rotate the strike and relieve some pressure though as currently it's an easy way for the bowling side to race through overs whilst Sibley is at the crease. With his huge stride and reach he should be able to develop a good sweep shot, smothering the spin and looking to work the ball square for runs.

Agree on Sibley, Carlos. We saw it in the winter, and seeing it again today, against even worse spin. Needs to find a release shot against the spinners. Roston Chase shouldn’t be bowling 11 overs at like 1.7 runs per over on a pitch that is turning just a tad

Disappointing throw away from Burns close to lunch...

I like Burns. He has a good temperament, and already a couple of good scores to his credit . But after 16 Tests he averages about 34 : he needs to raise that if he's to help England back to the top of the Test tree. Today he will feel he's rather wasted a lot of good work.

That seems harsh even as I type it ! Should be clear I see Burns as a fixture in the short/medium term ; and I think he can improve those figures. Just to make the point when we complain about England not sweeping "ordinary" opposition aside : right now there are not many players in this team who can truly be said to be "undisputed Test Match class". So we should never assume too much...

Denly , another one with a lot to prove to make the step up from journeyman to top player , up next. Still 37 behind. Decent session if they survive this last over ; but a lot left to do...

The main problem with Sibley's inclusion is his low strike rate. At times, he's been totally tied up by Chase's bowling which, in turn, heaps pressure on his partner. It's because of his low strike rate that I don't see him as a long-term option for England in tests (in an ideal world that is; England may not have the luxury of choice!). Don't think Burns is long-term either, which I've said before. He's averaging in the mid-thirties which would have got him jettisoned in 2013/2014/2015.

Great session of test cricket - disclipline v resolve. Still, it's England's session, even though the West Indies ended it with a bounce in their step. England still have to find at least another 200 runs from somewhere to be considered favourites going into the fourth innings, and that will be tough on this pitch.

And it's always in the back of your mind that an England collapse is never too far away...

Strike rate as an opener is irrelevant if you're scoring runs.

A strike rate of 38 as opposed to 45 equates to about 7 runs in 33 overs.

Sibley's strike rate is currently 25 though to be fair Soul.

Duty - I understand the point but comparing these openers to 2013-15 makes less sense when we don't have the same calibre of top order batsman available. Burns needs to keep improving and push his average up into the high-thirties. Elgar's average was in the mid-thirties for much of his test career, with it pushing up into the high-thirties more recently.

king_carlos wrote:Sibley's strike rate is currently 25 though to be fair Soul.

Duty - I understand the point but comparing these openers to 2013-15 makes less sense when we don't have the same calibre of top order batsman available. Burns needs to keep improving and push his average up into the high-thirties. Elgar's average was in the mid-thirties for much of his test career, with it pushing up into the high-thirties more recently.

That's for this innings though Carlos because the situation dictated it.

Don’t think there is much to worry about with Sibley’s strike rate - he’s pretty good at putting the bad balls away off the seamers, he just needs to develop that against the spinners, probably in a similar way to how Cook learnt to rotate the strike against spin.

Either way - solid start to the session again. Trailing by 19 now

Sibley averages 40 - small sample size though. And it is a little misleading as that is basically all down to one large , not out , innings.

However he has shown an ability to soak up a lot of early overs. Which really only makes him another Denly , I suppose , at this stage.

I honestly don't see this (combination) top three as a long term fixture : they are hardly Cook Strauss Trott But top order woes have been such in recent times they have earned some time to sort out who if any will have a proper career. With Crawley in the mix as well , of course.

And unless someone new pops up out of the blue I reckon there are places for two of them. I'd fancy Pope to move up to three eventually , but not just yet thanks !

Fifty for Sibley

And gone...commentators curse from Nasser

Nearly a no ball but no , it's just ok .hes out.

Two down still 2 runs adrift ...

No I'm wrong ...it is a no ball ! West Indies might be feeling the umpires are all against them : but on microscopic view it is true his heel has at best landed on the front of the line...

And anyway it doesn't matter he's gone now .caught down leg ..could have saved me a lot of typing

Nasser does for Sibley...check for a no-ball but I think he's ok? Or not. I thought the bowler would have got the benefit there.

Ah, it matters not as Sibley tickles it down the leg side. Only cost a run.

alfie wrote:Fifty for Sibley

And gone...commentators curse from Nasser

Nearly a no ball but no , it's just ok .hes out.

Two down still 2 runs adrift ...

Was called a no ball but went next ball anyway, clearly no part of the ball behind the line. The legside strangle is an issue.

How can they be 100% sure that's a no ball? I thought benefit of the doubt should go to the bowler?

Soul Requiem wrote:

alfie wrote:Fifty for Sibley

And gone...commentators curse from Nasser

Nearly a no ball but no , it's just ok .hes out.

Two down still 2 runs adrift ...

Was called a no ball but went next ball anyway. The legside strangle is an issue.

Action too fast for my editing

Game well and truly on now with both obdurate openers out of the way. The draw was beginning to come heavily into the equation until that Sibley dismissal.

New ball 28 overs away - Windies will want at least three more wickets by that stage.

So : after all that excitement...basically level , two wickets gone. More or less odds even now with WI batting last , no ?

Pity no Root : ideal time for a proper busy and experienced bat to come in. Danger that these two might just go nowhere for an hour : but I guess that would be better than a clatter of wickets now...still a few stroke players to follow.

Sibley must have set a record for being caught on the leg side : must be what , six or seven times in a dozen or so innings ?

Shot of the day by Zak Crawley, gorgeous drive.

23/2 = well in the balance. Brilliantly poised. All four results possible.

Duty281 wrote:Game well and truly on now with both obdurate openers out of the way. The draw was beginning to come heavily into the equation until that Sibley dismissal.

New ball 28 overs away - Windies will want at least three more wickets by that stage.

Most of this game I have struggled to see a way to a draw. Lot of time left - unless we have weather issues - and I still think both teams bowl better than they bat. But I suppose if England were to continue at their current glacial pace - and not get skittled in the evening session - we could see a situation where they resumed tomorrow perhaps 110 ahead and obviously looking to bat on ...Declaration wouldn't then be on until they had a "safe" lead...and bowling out a team in under two sessions might be a stretch.

But that really is getting ahead of ourselves. Anything can happen with a round ball...

Duty281 wrote:Shot of the day by Zak Crawley, gorgeous drive.

23/2 = well in the balance. Brilliantly poised. All four results possible.

Crawley definitely better to watch than his top order teammates. Needs solid runs though ...attractive thirties don't win Test matches.

Good to see he and Denly are looking to get on with it

This is set-up very interestingly now. The Windies will be desperate to break into the free scoring lower middle order of Stokes/Pope/Buttler before the new ball.

England will be wanting to push that lead up to around 90-100 by then.

Well poised game. The second new ball will tell us a lot about the pitch. The odd ball has misbehaved in terms of variable bounce but there hasn't been much going on. Perhaps the new ball will bring a bit more out the pitch with another couple of sessions wear in it.

It's only going to take two hours of Stokes or Pope for things to get away from the Windies.

Soul Requiem wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Sibley's strike rate is currently 25 though to be fair Soul.

Duty - I understand the point but comparing these openers to 2013-15 makes less sense when we don't have the same calibre of top order batsman available. Burns needs to keep improving and push his average up into the high-thirties. Elgar's average was in the mid-thirties for much of his test career, with it pushing up into the high-thirties more recently.

That's for this innings though Carlos because the situation dictated it.

The issue I could see for Sibley is trying to push that strike rate up during long innings though. Seeing off the new ball and quicks I have no issue with his strike rate being that low.

Having watched him from a pretty young age when I was still based in London he does have a tendency to get bogged down against the spinners which builds pressure on him and gives the bowling side an easy plan. Hopefully he can develop his game against the spinners to rotate the strike more.

As I've said I feel positive about the Burns/Sibley partnership overall and hope they are given time.

Soul Requiem wrote:It's only going to take two hours of Stokes or Pope for things to get away from the Windies.

Or two hours of Denly and Crawley if they keep pushing things on as they are looking too.

This partnership has an interesting footnote to it as if both of them get runs there will be an interesting decision to be made by the selectors when Root returns.

Bloody hell Joe

Denly out for 29 after getting set. I'm shocked.

All three dismissals today have been soft. Door open for the West Indies.

OK : no one posted a curse : but which of you was thinking "England are getting on top here " ?

Denly just can't break out of his mould , can he ?

Big opportunity for Crawley now. He's batting well so far.

I'm glued to this. It could swing either way very quickly.

Really have been soft , the outs today. Annoying. And at , essentially , 38/3 , the situation is full of tension.

And we don't have Sam Curran to bat

West Indies still look a bit flat in the field for my liking. Think the advantage is narrowly with them, currently, and a new ball (which does quite a bit here) only 14 overs away.

A lot rests on Stokes...as ever!

Heart in mouth time.

Stokes doesn't look worried.

Think that's a case of Holder reviewing purely because it's Stokes. He's been good with the reviews during this test up until that!

king_carlos wrote:Think that's a case of Holder reviewing purely because it's Stokes. He's been good with the reviews during this test up until that!

Got a bit of the Tim Paine’s about him with that one

54 ahead, 7 wickets in hand, second new ball a few overs away...what a last session we have in store

60 overs today has brought 150/3. Next 30 probably will decide the match.
New ball in ten.

Anyone's guess.

Two reviews punted away by the Windies. Agree that they only went for it because it was Stokes - may cost them later on.

54/3. What an absorbing game this is. The second new ball period, ten overs away, will likely decide it - England need to ensure Stokes and Crawley are at the crease for it.

Alastair Cook saying England need a 200 lead at least...

Can't see them getting that. Perhaps I'm a pessimist ?

On the other hand I'm not sure batting tomorrow will be easy so if they can get through to end of day a lead of 160-180 might possibly be enough.

Not much sparkling stroke play - or devastating bowling spells - but this match has been absorbing throughout. Might be a good finish too...

It does feel like a lot will rest on the next two partnerships, Alfie. I think we need Crawley, Stokes and Pope to put another 100 runs on the board before Buttler gets to the crease.

The second new ball will be vital.

That's an excellent drive from Stokes. He's looked in good touch in the warm-up game and the first innings.