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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 23 May 2020, 8:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

We have actual cricket news for the first time in forever...and some hope that we will see some test matches this summer!

England bowlers began a return to individual training on Thursday, with batsmen and wicketkeepers scheduled to make a return on 1st June, in anticipation of the West Indies series being rescheduled to begin on 8th July (all according to various reports).

There was also reports a few weeks back they might play some one day games, whilst tests are happening too. Not seen anything else about that, but with England’s depth in the shorter format it could be done you’d think players wise (and actually would present a good opportunity to some on the fringes)

ECB is going to confirm the full list of players who will resume training next week. Murmurings about Hales in the one day stuff don’t go away...

So anyways - let’s keep fingers crossed, and hope everyone who posts here is healthy and staying safe too Hug
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 19 Jun 2020, 8:50 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They really should be broadcasting that inter squad three day game - would be quite a good watch I suspect!

...

I would still be up for watching it but suspect this may be a 14 or 15 a side game with players flipflopping in and out as sometimes happens on tour. If so, that would be less appealing to broadcasters and some viewers.

Id be very surprised if it wasnt done in that format otherwise why bother keeping a 30 man squad for it?


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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 20 Jun 2020, 11:17 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They really should be broadcasting that inter squad three day game - would be quite a good watch I suspect!

...

I would still be up for watching it but suspect this may be a 14 or 15 a side game with players flipflopping in and out as sometimes happens on tour. If so, that would be less appealing to broadcasters and some viewers.

Don't doubt most wouldn't watch, but a sad case like me who's working from home for the foreseeable would watch any form of live cricket at this moment! Very Happy

I wouldn't expect anything else of you, Olly! clap Wink

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 3:12 pm

Reading half the Pakistan squad have tested postiive for COVID...s on the plus side if the antibodies do give immunity then at least they should be a lot safer for the England games.

Does make you wonder with so many players of all kinds of sports getting positive tests just how many asymptomatic cases there would be if everyone were as robustly tested as professional sportsfolk. And also the risks for of it being passed on to the more vulnerable as distancing is eased and increasingly ignored.

Not sure banning spitting on balls is really going to make that much difference in the grand scheme of things. Im sure the purists will be happy to see players standing a discreet distance and applauding wickets rather than running up for a hug and high fives mind.

Edit - Just recreational cricket came up in PMQs and the ball declared a "a natural vector of disease". So even with 1m gaps in the slip cordon and county crowds village cricket, just the pub after.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 11:26 am

Some county chairmen pointing out that they can open their grounds as pubs, but not for cricket.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 1:06 pm

Which is even more bonkers when the crowds in a pub will be much bigger than for a county game.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 1:42 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Which is even more bonkers when the crowds in a pub will be much bigger than for a county game.

This might be a bit presumptuous, and I don't want to alarm anyone, but having posted on these boards for a while I'm getting a sneaking feeling that Goose doesn't think much of county cricket. The signs have been incredibly subtle, Goose might even be displaying it subconsciously, but I've shown some notes to one of the Mets leading forensic linguistics and he thinks I might be onto something.

We of course don't want to risk being accused of corrupting this study but if a few of our stalwarts better respected than me offer some bait of sorts we might get more conclusive findings. Something along the lines of, "how has Chris Rushworth never played for the England Lions?" Or if you're feeling brave we could mention James Hildreth in the same whispered tones that Harry Potter characters speak of you-know-who. I draw the line at bringing up Darren Stevens though. We have a committed and experienced 606ers sanity to worry about here as well as scientific study.

I shall return to the shadows to gather more data on the subject.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 5:02 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Which is even more bonkers when the crowds in a pub will be much bigger than for a county game.

This might be a bit presumptuous, and I don't want to alarm anyone, but having posted on these boards for a while I'm getting a sneaking feeling that Goose doesn't think much of county cricket. The signs have been incredibly subtle, Goose might even be displaying it subconsciously, but I've shown some notes to one of the Mets leading forensic linguistics and he thinks I might be onto something.

We of course don't want to risk being accused of corrupting this study but if a few of our stalwarts better respected than me offer some bait of sorts we might get more conclusive findings. Something along the lines of, "how has Chris Rushworth never played for the England Lions?" Or if you're feeling brave we could mention James Hildreth in the same whispered tones that Harry Potter characters speak of you-know-who. I draw the line at bringing up Darren Stevens though. We have a committed and experienced 606ers sanity to worry about here as well as scientific study.

I shall return to the shadows to gather more data on the subject.

Hi Carlos - Even when Tim Linley was at his peak, Goose remained silent on an international call up for the Viscount. If that's not conclusive proof of your ''sneaking feeling'', what is?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 27 Jun 2020, 7:21 am

West Indies got held to a battling draw against themselves in their warm up. Not many of the test usuals did much of note by the look of the scorecard.

The county game ...well it's an easy target of course but even Tendulkar got called a flat track bully at times. Being a Leicestershire fan by association I'm perhaps a bit harsh on the competition crowd wise. But I've long held they are a couple of decades behind the curve on where it needs to be and no longer serves either the counties or the england team in generating money and providing a breeding ground for high quality test players. The decline is only going to get faster with the impact of covid, and really the situation does give the ECB an opportunity along with the 100 and franchises to really shake up the pro game here and cut down the number of first class teams.
It's a happy accident that Englands top talent has been able to do an extended training camp together and with the top coaches, but this is a one off.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 11:12 am

Joe Root to miss the first test next week with the birth of his child

Do we see Dan Lawrence come in, or have a shootout between Crawley/Denly to help decide who gets the 3 spot when Root returns
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 11:21 am

...and who gets the captaincy? I'm sure Broad will think it should be him but Stokes would be the other candidate.

A top 4 of Burns Crawley Sibley Denly would be pretty turgid. I'd prefer the option of Lawrence tbh, with Pope pushed to 4.
Bairstow as a specialist bat is yet another option in there of course. Hard to know where England are going to go with the gloves.



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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 11:34 am

Stokes is vice captain isn't he? Would imagine he just fills in, albeit I wouldn't want him taking on the burden of captaincy full time anytime soon.

Certainly a lot of options to choose from, both in the seam department and now that Root is out, batting department. Be interesting to see what snippets come out of the intra squad friendly this week
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Post by king_carlos on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 12:20 pm

Stokes confirmed as captain for the first test.

1.Burns
2.Sibley
3.Crawley
4.Denly
5.Stokes (c)
6.Pope
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Moeen
9.Archer
10.Broad
11.Anderson

That'd be my prediction. In roundabout way I think Root missing a test might help Moeen's chances. The coaches will want experience to help Stokes.

I agree with Olly it's a pretty turgid top 4. Shows how important Root's class is to the fragile top order. I'd keep Pope at 6 though. Long term I think 4.Root 5.Stokes 6.Pope is a really strong backbone to build the batting around. When you add in depth in keepers with Buttler, Foakes and Bairstow the middle order is strong.

Lawrence is talented no doubt but I'm a bit surprised that Sam Northeast isn't in the squad. He'd fit that 3/4 spot well. Dawid Malan also had a very good 2019 summer as well.

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Post by alfie on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 1:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Stokes is vice captain isn't he? Would imagine he just fills in, albeit I wouldn't want him taking on the burden of captaincy full time anytime soon.

Certainly a lot of options to choose from, both in the seam department and now that Root is out, batting department. Be interesting to see what snippets come out of the intra squad friendly this week

Yes Id imagine Stokes logically takes the reins for this one. Lord knows who fills the batting spot as they've no match form to go on...might be who is considered mentally up for it and/or looks good in the nets ?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 1:34 pm

I'd be picking Lawrence over Denly, would possibly make sense to open with Sibley and Crawley with Burns at three, breaks up the grinders a bit more.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 2:02 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Stokes is vice captain isn't he? Would imagine he just fills in, albeit I wouldn't want him taking on the burden of captaincy full time anytime soon.

Certainly a lot of options to choose from, both in the seam department and now that Root is out, batting department. Be interesting to see what snippets come out of the intra squad friendly this week

Yes Id imagine Stokes logically takes the reins for this one.  Lord knows who fills the batting spot as they've no match form to go on...might be who is considered mentally up for it and/or looks good in the nets ?

Theres a 3 day game starting Wednesday which is likely to be the decider.

Its also been noted that they will be picking a strongest XI for the first test (aside from Root) then rotating after that. Whilst thats likely to be largely focused on the seamers you could see some of the other positions, especially the three format players, shuffled through the summer tests.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 29 Jun 2020, 10:05 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They really should be broadcasting that inter squad three day game - would be quite a good watch I suspect!

...

I would still be up for watching it but suspect this may be a 14 or 15 a side game with players flipflopping in and out as sometimes happens on tour. If so, that would be less appealing to broadcasters and some viewers.

Don't doubt most wouldn't watch, but a sad case like me who's working from home for the foreseeable would watch any form of live cricket at this moment! Very Happy

I wouldn't expect anything else of you, Olly! clap Wink

Good news! The ECB are going to have a live stream for this, likely on their website similar to how the Counties do a county championship game. Should be good

Interesting little interview with Broad today. Question was asked if the illness that struck the England camp in South Africa before the Boxing Day test was COVID-19, and whilst obviously he doesn’t know and can’t really answer, if you look back at reports of what the symptoms were and how many were affected by it...you do wonder
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 30 Jun 2020, 9:07 am

Great news about the live stream

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 30 Jun 2020, 4:37 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They really should be broadcasting that inter squad three day game - would be quite a good watch I suspect!

...

I would still be up for watching it but suspect this may be a 14 or 15 a side game with players flipflopping in and out as sometimes happens on tour. If so, that would be less appealing to broadcasters and some viewers.

Don't doubt most wouldn't watch, but a sad case like me who's working from home for the foreseeable would watch any form of live cricket at this moment! Very Happy

I wouldn't expect anything else of you, Olly! clap Wink

Good news! The ECB are going to have a live stream for this, likely on their website similar to how the Counties do a county championship game. Should be good

Interesting little interview with Broad today. Question was asked if the illness that struck the England camp in South Africa before the Boxing Day test was COVID-19, and whilst obviously he doesn’t know and can’t really answer, if you look back at reports of what the symptoms were and how many were affected by it...you do wonder

Heah, thanks, Olly. Didn't know about the live stream. To have an even better chance of you winning the caravan, grateful if you could post a link on day one. Very Happy

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 9:44 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They really should be broadcasting that inter squad three day game - would be quite a good watch I suspect!

...

I would still be up for watching it but suspect this may be a 14 or 15 a side game with players flipflopping in and out as sometimes happens on tour. If so, that would be less appealing to broadcasters and some viewers.

Don't doubt most wouldn't watch, but a sad case like me who's working from home for the foreseeable would watch any form of live cricket at this moment! Very Happy

I wouldn't expect anything else of you, Olly! clap Wink

Good news! The ECB are going to have a live stream for this, likely on their website similar to how the Counties do a county championship game. Should be good

Interesting little interview with Broad today. Question was asked if the illness that struck the England camp in South Africa before the Boxing Day test was COVID-19, and whilst obviously he doesn’t know and can’t really answer, if you look back at reports of what the symptoms were and how many were affected by it...you do wonder

Heah, thanks, Olly. Didn't know about the live stream. To have an even better chance of you winning the caravan, grateful if you could post a link on day one. Very Happy


Well you'll be glad to see their livestreams page

https://www.ecb.co.uk/matches/live

..has day four of Northpants vs Surrey listed as on.
Sadly I suspect that's an admon error.

We are also missing out on the live streams of the Euro T10 league which would've featured featuring the mighty Swardeston representing England.

But can't find any links to England vs England

Teams are up though :

Team Stokes: Dominic Sibley, Keaton Jennings, Zak Crawley, Jonathan Bairstow, Ben Stokes (c), Ben Foakes, Moeen Ali, Lewis Gregory, Craig Overton, Jack Leach, Olly Stone, James Anderson, Saqib Mahmood.

Team Buttler: Rory Burns, James Bracey, Joe Denly, Dan Lawrence, Ollie Pope, Jos Buttler (c), Sam Curran, Chris Woakes, Dominic Bess, Mark Wood, Jofra Archer, Stuart Broad, Matthew Parkinson, Ollie Robinson

No place for Vidri ...not cross checked the whole squad but he's the only name that I noticed missing.
6 potential openers ...how times have changed! Whilst none of them are exactly established world class test players it's a welcome change to see too many rather than the barrel scrapings ( cough Jennjngs cough)

Broad Wood Anderson Archer Leach all fit at the same time too seems unthinkable. The doctors must be wondering what to do with themselves, not even a pre match football kick about to keep them in business.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 10:26 am

https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/news/1703010/watch-live-england-men-intra-squad-match

That should be the right link - think it starts at 11
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 11:14 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/news/1703010/watch-live-england-men-intra-squad-match

That should be the right link - think it starts at 11

Thanks, Olly. Pictures work a treat. No comms though, right? Sure Churchy would have volunteered!

From a quick read, teams are 13 and 14 a side. Looks like Virds is the water boy for both! Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 11:47 am

45 minutes in and Jimmy is already visibly grumpy. Good to have it back
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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 12:51 pm

Bracey looks like a decent player so far, missed the Burns dismissal.

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Post by alfie on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 1:53 pm

Blimey...never expected to be watching a 13 a side practice match on a stream from another hemisphere  Smile

That's what starvation does to you...

Don't know this Bracey at all . Another left hander. Where are they all coming from ?

And why on earth could they not put Woakes in the same team with Stokes and Foakes to give Olly peace at last !

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 2:15 pm

alfie wrote:Blimey...never expected to be watching a 13 a side practice match on a stream from another hemisphere  Smile

That's what starvation does to you...

Don't know this Bracey at all . Another left hander. Where are they all coming from ?

And why on earth could they not put Woakes in the same team with Stokes and Foakes to give Olly peace at last !

Bracey plays for Gloucestershire Alfie - bit out of the blue his selection, but not doing himself any harm here so far...

Not great for Leach that's getting a bit of a tonking from...Joe Denly. 32 runs off his 6 overs so far
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 2:22 pm

Speaking of Bracey, goes to a well made fifty. Denly has got his customary thirty or so...
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 2:30 pm

Hi Alfie and all - just to add - almost inevitably, Bracey is also a keeper!

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 2:33 pm

A quick check would suggest that Bracey is a wicket keeper in the Burns and Pope mould, as in he can do it but very rarely does, seems to be used almost exclusively as a batsmen by Gloucestershire.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 3:08 pm

Joe Denly getting in for a while, and just as he looks good, getting out before he makes a fifty. The more things change, the more they stay the same
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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 4:00 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:A quick check would suggest that Bracey is a wicket keeper in the Burns and Pope mould, as in he can do it but very rarely does, seems to be used almost exclusively as a batsmen by Gloucestershire.

I've not seen Bracey but suspect he's a bit more than that behind the stumps. I first really noticed his name when he was with the England Lions in Australia early this year. He kept in all the unofficial tests and limited over games on that tour.

He may not get an opportunity to wear the gloves in this game but it'll be another thing to look out for.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 4:19 pm

Leach continues to leak runs and not look effective...surprised Moeen hasn't been given a bowl (unless he isn't part of the XI?). Sounds like Olly Stone picked up a hamstring injury and isn't being risked (he might take Wood's sicknote tag at this rate)

Bracey onto 80* and Dan Lawrence in and off to a brisk start, 28 off 31
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 4:30 pm

Mo is in the same team as Leach so perhaps its more to do with giving Leach an extended bowl. Its no shock if he is a bit off, he's barely played any cricket at all in the past year and a bit and not been able to train for most of it.

Bracey making a score isn't likely to trouble the first test squad given how much of an outsider he is but maybe he might get kept around as part of the squad when its trimmed and have a chance if things are shuffled around later in the series as planned.

Also just realised the other name missing from the sides .... our man Billings has been SNUBBED. Whistle

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 6:22 pm

Well Mo did get a good spell in the end...and mauled even more than Leach. Maybe just not a good day for the spinners, especially rusty ones. In terms of likely first choice test players the only bright spot really is Anderson, 14 in overs in a day uninjured and wickets.

Forecast is good for the next two days thankfully.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 6:32 pm

Great seeing Jimmy bowling well again. I really hope he stays fit to push past that 600 Test wickets mark!

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 7:00 pm

I ducked in and out of today's coverage. Pretty good and certainly competitive from what I saw - not a pre-season jolly by any stretch.

Think Jimmy ended up with 2/49 off 18. That's a proper return and work out.

Fine knock of 80 odd from Bracey. As goose honked, that won't get him an immediate Test call up but it'll help keep him in the picture. Same probably applies to Lawrence's 50 something.

Anyway, the guy who, as so often, particularly impressed me with a reliable and unflustered performance was Foakes. He deserved his two catches - the second, an excellent low legside take off Overton to dismiss Bracey. If Foakes can get some runs, he could just be pushing for a recall.

That all said, great to see some cricket. Very Happy

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 7:26 pm

I'm unashamedly a consistent, nagging, often exacerbating advocate of Foakes I will admit. But all the same I'd love for him to get a recall. I'd put him equal with James Foster, Michael Bates and the brilliant Sarah Taylor as the best English gloveman I've seen in the last 20 years. Chris Read was also outstanding but I'd consider him a fraction below Foster. It's a big claim but I actually think Foakes might be even better than his old mentor Foster. Both are/were incredibly tidy keepers and excellent standing up but I think Foakes might be even more athletic standing back!

His batting form wasn't up to his usual standards last summer which probably shot him in the foot thinking about the Test that Pope kept for when Bairstow had been dropped. I do wonder whether Foakes would have traveled as reserve keeper had his batting form been better in the preceding summer.

I love watching Buttler play and his keeping has improved a lot, as did Bairstow's as well. Buttller is a freak capable of remarkable things with the bat. He's also widely acknowledged as having a very good cricketing brain and being a good leader. Fact remains though that he has one Test century in 41 tests and an average in the low 30s.

Remarkably for such a talented and influential player Buttler actually only has 17 centuries in all professional cricket. 1 in Tests, 9 in ODIs, 5 in first-class and 2 in List-A. This raises the shamelessly futile, utterly unanswerable, completely subjective and hence perfectly 606v2 question of:

Is Jos Buttler the most talented batsman of all time with only 17 professional centuries?

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Post by JDizzle on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 7:48 pm

Bracey the star of the day for sure - just a shame he is chosen now to propel himself into the conversation when we have too many top order batsmen!

Decent days for Lawrence and Denly too, although they both will be kicking themselves they didn't go on and get a hundred which would probably secure themselves a spot in T1.

And good figures for COverton too. Didn't see him bowl, and one of his wickets sounds a bit lucky being a leg side feather, but just a reminder he is a good bowler!

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 7:54 pm

I'd flip the question there KC and ask;

Is Jos Buttler the most over rated current batsmen and is his reputation built upon minority innings rather than his overall career?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 8:19 pm

Jos Buttler is one of England’s greatest all time white ball batsmen.

Clearly in the red ball game he isn’t upto much overall mind

I thought Lawrence looked good from what I saw - particularly against the spinners
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Post by JDizzle on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 9:50 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Jos Buttler is England’s greatest all time white ball batsmen.

Clearly in the red ball game he isn’t upto much overall mind

I thought Lawrence looked good from what I saw - particularly against the spinners

Fixed. Wink

I don’t really see why they feel he has to work as a Test cricketer though. He’s probably going to be white ball captain in a years time, and I’d let him bat 4 in the ODI side too. That is enough. Keeper bat is the one spot we aren’t short of candidates!

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 01 Jul 2020, 9:58 pm

Buttler has been given more than enough time to cement his test spot but still flatters to deceive, there's the odd innings here and there but he's not yet produced a single match winnings performance. Behind the stumps he is clearly inferior to Foakes so not entirely sure why they keep persisting with an experiment that isn't paying dividends, tend to think it's affected his ODI performances too.

On a separate note, one of the all time greats in Everton Weekes passed away today, his five consecutive centuries is unlikely to ever be repeated, RIP.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 9:42 am

In the grand scheme if England batsmen in the past 5 years or so is an average in the low 30s bad? Given he's in as a keeper now ....

I do feel England sleepwalked a little into him being the number one with Bairstows loss of form and his huge confidence and good run of scores on recall. As others have noted Foakes was probably harshly treated on his initial dropping but didn't do anything to make it look like a mistake and in some ways his recall could be argued as a bit odd and as much to do with England wanting options to rest Buttler as anything else.
The onus is now on him to force himself into the number two spot and make the most of any rotation that happens. Same goes for Bairstwo really, I suspect England will want to give him a test this summer, but with Lawrence is adding to the competition in the middle order its hard to see him getting it as a pure bat unless he makes big runs somewhere.

That Foakes and Bairstow are on the same team signals to me that Buttler ( who got the captaincy of his team) remains number one in Englands thinking. Foakes getting the gloves ahead of Bairstow suggests he's number two at the moment, so a fair bit of pressure on Bairstow to get some runs.

Nice problem for England to have.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 9:55 am

Team Buttler have "declared" overnight, so teams are swapping roles today. Means we'll likely get an early look at Jofra and Wood against...Keaton Jennings. Might be over quickly that one folks
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Post by alfie on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 10:05 am

Ed Smith is besotted with Buttler. He seems determined to shoehorn him into the XI one way or another somewhat regardless of form , so I think Foakes is facing an uphill battle to get a look in.
I have no problem with them giving Buttler a fair chance to make the move from white ball cricket to the Test scene : his initial batting form on recall was quite promising , albeit perhaps skewed by being given the luxury spot of "specialist batsman at number seven".  When he moved up the order in Sri Lanka with Foakes taking the gloves from the injured Bairstow , the opportunity was there for him to settle at five/six. But he didn't fire against stronger attacks so was shuffled back down the order ... And then in order to get Pope a go he was popped back in the WK spot. And it really hasn't been working.

But I don't see it changing in the short term. Might not matter this summer but unless there is an unlikely serious improvement on the results of forty-odd Tests England are essentially carrying a player more on hope than hard evidence into some tough assignments...

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 10:27 am

I'd always assumed Buttlers recall was more of a Bayliss thing than Ed Smith, although it may well have been Smith coming in that enabled Bayliss to get what he wanted. Either way I was very Buttler sceptic, but felt I had to eat some humble pie after the Sri Lanaka tour.

Checking Buttlers record though hes actually played a lot more tests than I realised. I was going to cite Stokes' early career struggles (despite 2 centuries he was only averaging 27 after 20 tests) but I think we have gone a bit beyond the realms of early days with Buttler who's also had the luxury of hiding down the order. His post recall average is no better than he pre recall one too, something else I'd lost sight of. That run of good scores is two years ago now and came largely against spinners, no evidence hes up to much in an English summer against quality seamers.


I guess with guys like Buttler, and to some extent Stokes, what coaches and selectors see is players who can do things others simply can't. Buttler is capable of some remarkable batting and instilling a level of fear into bowlers, but hes yet to adapt that into a overall package that actually makes him a real success in red ball cricket. Its certainly handy to have guys who are capable of dismantling the oppositions magic bowler as well as the steady plodders they have in the top 3, but average counts for a lot more than SR in tests.

I'm being increasingly won over by the Foakes argument, but it really is up to him to prove the point. I assume he'll be batting a fair but down the order today, if he comes in ahead of Bairstow though that will be a big signal from Englands leadership.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 11:07 am

Buttler's strike rate isn't spectacular in tests anyway, he scores less runs at a lower rate lower down the order than Stokes for instance and is only marginally quicker than Root so for me that is another problem with his selection. By comparison Adam Gilchrist averaged over 47 striking at over 80 which is frankly absurd but that strike rate is what the selectors must have been expecting from Buttler but instead he's half and half at the moment, he's either not scoring quickly enough or not scoring enough full stop.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 11:16 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Buttler's strike rate isn't spectacular in tests anyway, he scores less runs at a lower rate lower down the order than Stokes for instance and is only marginally quicker than Root so for me that is another problem with his selection. By comparison Adam Gilchrist averaged over 47 striking at over 80 which is frankly absurd but that strike rate is what the selectors must have been expecting from Buttler but instead he's half and half at the moment, he's either not scoring quickly enough or not scoring enough full stop.

Certainly interesting that when you look at his series by series stats, his best series in terms of average/runs scored, are also his highest strike rates too (Sri Lanka as Goose mentioned, where he was noticeably more positive, particularly against spin). Obviously some of that is naturally the longer he's in, the quicker he'll score...but it does feel like sometimes he's trying to force himself into being a "traditional" test batsman, when actually, he'd probably have more success going out there at 7 and just having a swing/taking the attack to the bowler. He's never really found that comfort in the red ball stuff...

Either way he's clearly going to get the West Indies series at least - so hopefully it can all click for him. And hopefully in whatever cricket he does get, Foakes does score some runs...because he did have a horror show of a summer with the bat in 2019.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 11:25 am

I'm not sure if it's a personal decision or one taken by the selectors but he does look to build an innings in a similar way to Stokes but I don't think he possesses the technique or ability to play like that. I don't think the failed Roy experiment has helped matters in that regard.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 12:31 pm

Team Stokes rather turgid so far, Archer getting Sibley in a worryingly similar way to he got out in SA in the winter, strangled down the legside
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 02 Jul 2020, 12:43 pm

There's no way to know if Foakes would have taken it of course, but that was a very catch-able if tough chance from Sibley down the leg side that Buttler just shelled of Broad.

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