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The golfers' Music Room

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 2:43 pm

Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 2:57 pm

Davie wrote:
super_realist wrote:I think it's the singers voice which I don't like. He makes it an effort to listen to Muse.

That's exactly it for me. He always sounds out of breath and trying to catch it. Gets very irritating after a while. The music is pretty good but once I've got that breathlessness in my head I can't shake it

I saw them last June at the London Stadium and I noticed the breathing thing after a couple of songs and couldn't stop concentrating on it for the rest of the gig, they were the last true live band I hadn't seen and was quite disappointed afterwards.

Also saw the Stranglers in Hyde Park back in 2017 I believe playing on the second stage, was waiting waiting for Green Day on the main stage and have to say without Hugh Cornwell it wasn't for me.

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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 3:09 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

Cover or not, I hate that song.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 4:16 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

I quite like the Rufus Wainwright version. I like a bit of plinky piano warbling though.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 03 Jun 2020, 4:24 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.
Yeah. Not only could he play (love the musicality of that closing solo), but great showman to boot.
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 03 Jun 2020, 4:25 pm

super_realist wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

Cover or not, I hate that song.
Hmm. Why am I not surprised? OK
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 03 Jun 2020, 4:31 pm

Something a bit different - covering Pachelbel. Original (MattRach) and newer version (Cole Rolland):





Soft spot for this tune as like it anyway and wife walked down aisle to it. Love the joy in the MattRach version and Rolland can't half play, sweep picking and all.
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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 4:32 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.
Yeah. Not only could he play (love the musicality of that closing solo), but great showman to boot.

Prince is a great guitarist, but doesn't always cone to mind when you think of great guitarists.

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:00 pm

beninho wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.

I quite like the Rufus Wainwright version. I like a bit of plinky piano warbling though.


Adam Cohen reckoned it took his Dad months to perfect Hallelujah, but it somehow seems so out of character with most of his (wonderful) stuff.
Brandi Carlile's version is the only one to come close to Jeff Buckley's.


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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:05 pm

He's clearly a very good guitarist, or rather was before he croaked it but I don't really think his music really lends itself to showing off great guitar playing as much as some other bands if that makes sense.

When you think of great guitarists you think of Gilmour, Page, Hendrix, Marr, Townshend, Richards, Clapton not Prince, even if he was technically as good as them.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:17 pm

beninho wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Cover wise it's hard to look past Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley, not usually my kind of thing but the haunting beauty of his voice is a guilty pleasure, one of the weaker songs on his only true album to be fair.

I love that Prince solo and i've always got to the end and thought the exact same thing 'where the **** did his guitar go?', can't go wrong with a bit of Stevie Ray Vaughan but not a fan of Hendrix being covered, it's near impossible to get the guitar tone right to do him justice but SRV does an admirable job.
Yeah. Not only could he play (love the musicality of that closing solo), but great showman to boot.

Prince is was a great guitarist, but doesn't always cone to mind when you think of great guitarists.
Agree. He was a strange one. Could have been a Jackson or a Hendrix, but chose some mashup of both. That said, he was pretty original and wrote a lot for others too. Not generally my sort of thing at all, but he could certainly play his axe pretty good - I would have liked more of it.
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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:43 pm

I think for Prince the word varied can be used. He definitely falls into the group for me, of artists im not that fond of, but can clearly see how talented he was.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 5:49 pm

Has to be said there is very little of his stuff that I actually enjoy listening to, tend to think he was a somewhat wasted talent and not being easily pigeon holed means he doesn't appear on any lists of great guitarists.

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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:02 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Has to be said there is very little of his stuff that I actually enjoy listening to, tend to think he was a somewhat wasted talent and not being easily pigeon holed means he doesn't appear on any lists of great guitarists.

Wasn't part of a great genre really. Soppy balladeer.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:03 pm

Wanted talent? Not sure on that. Net worth estinated at 300m at death, and at times one if the biggest stars on earth. Purple rain has sold 13m in America alone.

If hes wasted, I'd like to see your view on someone who didn't waste the career.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:07 pm

Record sales and net worth dont mean anything with regard to talent. In my humble opinion he could have had a more balanced career with regards to his output where often he went for quantity over quality.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:08 pm

super_realist wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Has to be said there is very little of his stuff that I actually enjoy listening to, tend to think he was a somewhat wasted talent and not being easily pigeon holed means he doesn't appear on any lists of great guitarists.

Wasn't part of a great genre really. Soppy balladeer.

Soppy ballads? Is that your view?

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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:13 pm

I admittedly don't know much of his work, but what I've heard is a bit slow and boring.

In terms of over rated guitarists I'd have to say the ludicrously named The Edge is one of the worst. Best thing he ever did was fall off stage. I see U2 the same way I see Springsteen. MOR.

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Post by westisbest Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:17 pm

Ah U2. Another great band imo.


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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:20 pm

super_realist wrote:I admittedly don't know much of his work, but what I've heard is a bit slow and boring.

In terms of over rated guitarists I'd have to say the ludicrously named The Edge is one of the worst. Best thing he ever did was fall off stage.  I see U2 the same way I see Springsteen. MOR.

A lot of funky and some downright fifty songs done by prince. I wouldn't put in in the pure ballader group. Though he did have his moments, but as I said earlier, he was very varied and hard to pigeonhole.

U2 were anything but boring if you listen to the earlier and peak stuff, probably the same with Springsteen. Bands that stick around tend to be easier to bash. People think the Stones are boring, but sone early stuff is phenomenal. Gimme Shelter is one of the best songs ever!

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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:27 pm

Gimme Shelter has a tremendous intro.

U2 make Status Quo look like Jimmy Page when it comes to guitar though, far too much similarity in their sound. Bill Bailey does a good sketch about what a boring guitarist the edge is.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:30 pm

To be over rated the Edge would have to be rated in the first place, superb guitar tech but can't say I've ever seen him described as anything but a decent guitar player.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:32 pm

Just relistened to frontier psychiatrist by the avalanches greaat song with a bonkers video.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:37 pm

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ritchie-blackmore-52823/

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:44 pm

That is a truly awful list, Blackmore at 50 was enough for me.

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Post by super_realist Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:51 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That is a truly awful list, Blackmore at 50 was enough for me.
laughing
The Edge and his effect pedal at 38

Don't think Hendrix was the best either, but these lists are all very subjective.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 6:57 pm

Its not definitive. Its just who that group of musicians or journalists voted for. Another group would be a different order,though probably the same names.

I would always go Clapton at one.

Though Alive by Pearl Jam has probably my favourite solo, but also lot of love for Tom Morello

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Post by Davie Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:09 pm

Clapton is/was possibly the most overrated guitarists of all time. Even he admits he is rather average. BUT ... he was in the right place at the right time.
That Rolling Stone list is pretty awful though

And super "dissing" Status Quo is pretty funny when he puts people like Townshend, Clapton and Richards right up there. Influential maybe but not that good

My list would include the likes of Blackmore, Buck Dharma (Blue Oyster Cult), John Petrucci (Dream Theater), Joe Satriani, Nuno Bettencourt (Extreme), Jimmy Page etc.


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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:10 pm

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_newguitar.html

That's an on the whole a better list but you need to factor in that the pure blues guys are largely omitted and the heavy metal guys are marked down quite a bit.

Mike McGready's best work for me is on the sole Mad Season album with the following being a particular highlight


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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 7:28 pm

Basically, no obes right and no ones wrong. I love music because it can be what you want it to be. It can be personal and mean different things to different people. Like it or hate it, its generally irrelevant just enjoy whatever you like.

Its always fun though to debate it, even if us mere fans are able to call out legends as overated or rubbish. When we all probably wish we could be half as good.

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Post by I'm never wrong Wed 03 Jun 2020, 8:55 pm

beninho wrote:When we all probably wish we could be half as good.
Or just be able to play

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 03 Jun 2020, 9:12 pm



Something a bit different, these guys really know how to play.

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Post by beninho Wed 03 Jun 2020, 10:09 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:

Something a bit different, these guys really know how to play.

Each to their own...

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:39 am

beninho wrote:https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ritchie-blackmore-52823/
Ta. An interesting list (with some great musicians, rather than just technicians) - the content of it would always be disputed, but they don't really give the criteria on which they're judged. Suggest some are only there due the legendary status of the bands they were in.

Blackmore only just on it? Hmm.

George Harrison on it at all? Ditto 'The Edge'?

No, for example, Joe Satriani? No Bonamassa? No Malmsteen? No Becker? Loomis? Etc, etc.
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:41 am

Davie wrote:Clapton is/was possibly the most overrated guitarists of all time. Even he admits he is rather average. BUT ... he was in the right place at the right time.
That Rolling Stone list is pretty awful though

And super "dissing" Status Quo is pretty funny when he puts people like Townshend, Clapton and Richards right up there. Influential maybe but not that good

My list would include the likes of Blackmore, Buck Dharma (Blue Oyster Cult), John Petrucci (Dream Theater), Joe Satriani, Nuno Bettencourt (Extreme), Jimmy Page etc.

To be fair, Clapton was good enough in his early (Cream) days, especially live.
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Post by super_realist Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:49 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ritchie-blackmore-52823/
Ta. An interesting list (with some great musicians, rather than just technicians) - the content of it would always be disputed, but they don't really give the criteria on which they're judged. Suggest some are only there due the legendary status of the bands they were in.

Blackmore only just on it? Hmm.

George Harrison on it at all? Ditto 'The Edge'?

No, for example, Joe Satriani? No Bonamassa? No Malmsteen? No Becker? Loomis? Etc, etc.

It's a top 100 list. The link only takes you to the top 50.
I don't see Lots of guitarists that I would put on there too, but it's a subjective list and no one will agree 100% on it.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:52 am

super_realist wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ritchie-blackmore-52823/
Ta. An interesting list (with some great musicians, rather than just technicians) - the content of it would always be disputed, but they don't really give the criteria on which they're judged. Suggest some are only there due the legendary status of the bands they were in.

Blackmore only just on it? Hmm.

George Harrison on it at all? Ditto 'The Edge'?

No, for example, Joe Satriani? No Bonamassa? No Malmsteen? No Becker? Loomis? Etc, etc.

It's a top 100 list. The link only takes you to the top 50.
I don't see Lots of guitarists that I would put on there too, but it's a subjective list and no one will agree 100% on it.
Of course. I made that point right off the bat...
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Post by super_realist Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:54 am

Pretty sure Satriani is on the list somewhere.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:57 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-guitarists-153675/ritchie-blackmore-52823/
Ta. An interesting list (with some great musicians, rather than just technicians) - the content of it would always be disputed, but they don't really give the criteria on which they're judged. Suggest some are only there due the legendary status of the bands they were in.

Blackmore only just on it? Hmm.

George Harrison on it at all? Ditto 'The Edge'?

No, for example, Joe Satriani? No Bonamassa? No Malmsteen? No Becker? Loomis? Etc, etc.

Blackmore is easily top ten, his work with Rainbow and Blackmore's Night is sublime, think he's remembered more for his rather basic Deep Purple riffs but he was so much more than that. I'd argue that he's the finest hard rock technician which sometimes works against him in comparison to Hendrix, Iommi and Page.

Never been a big fan of Satriani or Malmsteen to be honest, too much scaling for my liking, tend to see the pair of them alongside Steve Vai as flair over substance but each to their own. An old school teacher of mine summed it up best when he said that BB King could get more out of one note than Satriani could out of a whole song.

Jason Becker?

Clapton is god, his stuff with Cream and the Yardbirds is brilliant.

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Post by super_realist Thu 04 Jun 2020, 9:58 am

The list is very genre specific. No mention of some of the superb jazz guitarists. Perhaps not everyones taste but incredible guitarists.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 04 Jun 2020, 10:01 am

super_realist wrote:The list is very genre specific. No mention of some of the superb jazz guitarists. Perhaps not everyones taste but incredible guitarists.

You end up with a list like this if you include the Jazz guys, Clapton ends up down at 50 and the general public recognises next to no one.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitar-all.html

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Post by incontinentia Thu 04 Jun 2020, 10:31 am

How about awesome bass players? Have to say I'm loving some Les Claypool stuff the last while, so so funky.



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Post by Davie Thu 04 Jun 2020, 10:39 am

Bass players - no one compares to Geddy Lee (IMO of course)

And back to guitarists (and jazz influences) Jan Ackerman of Focus was always one of my favourites - he crossed over to jazz (ish) when he left Focus

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 04 Jun 2020, 10:46 am

Geddy Lee is right up there; Jack Bruce of Cream is a personal favourite watching him play a fretless bass at the Albert Hall was a musical highlight of mine. I do think the power trios lend themselves to having bassists who can showcase their skills a bit more, I can't think of many twin guitar bands where the bass is that prominent; Cliff Burton in early Metallica being an exception there.

My top five would be something like;

Jack Bruce
Geddy Lee
Geezer Butler
John Paul Jones
Noel Redding (Hendrix Experience)

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 04 Jun 2020, 12:43 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Geddy Lee is right up there; Jack Bruce of Cream is a personal favourite watching him play a fretless bass at the Albert Hall was a musical highlight of mine. I do think the power trios lend themselves to having bassists who can showcase their skills a bit more, I can't think of many twin guitar bands where the bass is that prominent; Cliff Burton in early Metallica being an exception there.

My top five would be something like;

Jack Bruce
Geddy Lee
Geezer Butler
John Paul Jones
Noel Redding (Hendrix Experience)
I'd add Billy Sheehan and Steve Harris to that list...

There's loads that can be added to these sorts of lists. Suppose it sparks conversation!
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Post by beninho Thu 04 Jun 2020, 12:44 pm

Being a 90s child, the bass players that stood out for me where flea and timmy c from ratm.

Though Neds atomic dustbin had 2 bass players, and pwei were a bit bass.

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Post by JAS Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:44 pm

super_realist wrote:Gimme Shelter has a tremendous intro.

U2 make Status Quo look like Jimmy Page when it comes to guitar though, far too much similarity in their sound. Bill Bailey does a good sketch about what a boring guitarist the edge is.  

Oh ok, enlighten me on the similarities of between One, Pride, Bad, Vertigo, Beautiful Day, Numb? After over a dozen albums there's bound to be some similarities but there's enough of a difference in the random sample above to blow away your "too much similarity" assertion.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:48 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Geddy Lee is right up there; Jack Bruce of Cream is a personal favourite watching him play a fretless bass at the Albert Hall was a musical highlight of mine. I do think the power trios lend themselves to having bassists who can showcase their skills a bit more, I can't think of many twin guitar bands where the bass is that prominent; Cliff Burton in early Metallica being an exception there.

My top five would be something like;

Jack Bruce
Geddy Lee
Geezer Butler
John Paul Jones
Noel Redding (Hendrix Experience)
I'd add Billy Sheehan and Steve Harris to that list...

There's loads that can be added to these sorts of lists. Suppose it sparks conversation!

Never really considered Harris in fairness, always focused more on Nicko's drumming which has always been the driving force behind Maiden, add in what is now a triple threat of guitars he probably does get a bit overlooked.

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Post by super_realist Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:48 pm

It's an opinion Jas and I don't think that The Edge is a great guitarist or that he's particularly diverse in his playing. Far too much reliance on effects.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 04 Jun 2020, 1:49 pm

beninho wrote:Being a 90s child, the bass players that stood out for me where flea and timmy c from ratm.

Though Neds atomic dustbin had 2 bass players, and pwei were a bit bass.

Timmy C would be right up there.

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