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Post by McLaren on Sat 20 Jun 2020, 1:31 pm

Navy

And what super has also missed is that the statues and TV shows are not really the main focus of the protests. They are easy news bites to bring up but the meat of the protesters argument is about equality for black people.

I also don't think super is correct that just because you support BLM you don't also worry about atrocities committed in other spheres of life. It is just that currently the focus is on racism towards black people.

As much as he hates America, Super would really fit into their libertarian ways.
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Post by beninho on Sat 20 Jun 2020, 5:12 pm

Had someone use the Sr excuse today. We went to the park, with my sisters and dad, sat out had a picnic, kicked a ball around. A couple came along later and jumped the fence with their child to the play area, which is closed. My wife said, loudly to my kids, no you are not allowed to play in there, and my sister bluntly said, its closed for a reason. The argument started off being, people have been demonstrating so its fine we argued why, but also that everyone else has kids and have stayed away. They then said about not having a garden, which was irrelevant as they were in a big park area! Anyway, got a bit heated and we all left, were going anyway.

But annoying.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 20 Jun 2020, 6:12 pm

That definitely happened didn't it Ben. The demonstrations are a perfect excuse for breaking the guidelines and I fully back those doing it.

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Post by beninho on Sat 20 Jun 2020, 6:56 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:That definitely happened didn't it Ben. The demonstrations are a perfect excuse for breaking the guidelines and I fully back those doing it.

I did not back the people today, its a crap excuse and generally used by idiots I woukd think. Not sure why they think they were so special when everyone else followed the rules.

I've always said, i don't think anyobe should be protesting, but can sort of understand the blm protesters. The others and the people today, I dont really get acting like idiots for only generally selfish reasons.

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Post by pedro on Sun 21 Jun 2020, 11:31 pm

beninho wrote:I think a white (assumption) middle class Scotsmen should definitely go for a chat with a BLM protestor and tell them what they should be protesting, and that there are more things in life then the racism or injustice they feel.
Why not? Most protesters are white middle class anyway.

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Post by dynamark on Tue 23 Jun 2020, 5:19 pm

Golf club called today to ask why I had not renewed membership on April 1st .
Fairly obvious bur credit for trying.
I had my finger hovering over the book button on Ryan air today listening to Boris but he didn't lift the 14 day isolation rule £50 to Majorca return id sit on the wing at that price.

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Post by JAS on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 12:59 pm

dynamark wrote:Golf club called today to ask why I had not renewed membership on April 1st .
Fairly obvious  bur credit for trying.
I had my finger hovering over the book button on Ryan air today listening to Boris but he didn't lift the 14 day isolation rule £50 to Majorca return id sit on the wing at that price.

It’s a difficult call re memberships Dyna, not paying when not playing is perfectly understandable but of course the knock on effect is that Unless the club is awash with reserves or has a good credit line then they will have no money to pay the greenkeepers and other staff. Obviously it’s more than just golf clubs that will have to deal with that equation in the coming months. Seems like a good time to tap the banks for all the taxpayer dosh they were given to survive in 2008.

I’d love to get away too, should have gone to Gran Canaria May half term but obviously that was cancelled. Having said that, not sure I Now fancy sitting in a restaurant being served by waiting staff in masks etc or even worse, in room dining. Of course the other thing is that if we look at it logically, travel and in particular holiday travel is effectively the virus’s best friend in terms of spreading.

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Post by JAS on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 1:06 pm

Not very difficult to have complete and utter disdain for the media, they’ve hounded and badgered and agitated for an easing of lockdown, virtually campaigned for it the past few weeks....So here we are the day after major easing announcements and all they’re on about now is concern about the 2nd wave...FFS, can’t these cretins join the dots??

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Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 1:18 pm

Don't know if I've mentioned it before but my club offered members the chance to "furlough" their membership for up to a year. For £120 you remain a "member" - but no access to club etc, and when you want to rejoin, that £120 is deducted from your fee.

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Post by dynamark on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 3:27 pm

JAS in truth couldn't renew due to difficulty with my hip.
Our club is a private company I would sympathize if it was a members owned set up there would be a responsibility to keep the ship afloat.
INW that is a fair effort to keep you interested.
Opening up the patio and garden areas on 4th July so at least my daughter can get back to work up there.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 4:44 pm

JAS wrote:Not very difficult to have complete and utter disdain for the media, they’ve hounded and badgered and agitated for an easing of lockdown, virtually campaigned for it the past few weeks....So here we are the day after major easing announcements and all they’re on about now is concern about the 2nd wave...FFS, can’t these cretins join the dots??
Why would they look at themselves in the mirror? They've been doing this sort of thing the whole way through. They aren't interested in raw, unexpurgated 'news' anymore, except insofar as it sells papers/media advertising and therefore makes them money. Most stuff they publish should be labelled as editorials.
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Post by beninho on Wed 24 Jun 2020, 8:22 pm

Hitler was far left. Who knew?

Norman Tebbit trying to rewrite history.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 12:10 pm

beninho wrote:Hitler was far left. Who knew?

Norman Tebbit trying to rewrite history.
🤷 Extreme left and right. Neither have a proud history.
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Post by superflyweight on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 12:51 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Hitler was far left. Who knew?

Norman Tebbit trying to rewrite history.
🤷 Extreme left and right. Neither have a proud history.

No, but no one ever claims that Stalin or Mao were far right.

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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 1:19 pm

beninho wrote:Hitler was far left. Who knew?

Norman Tebbit trying to rewrite history.

The clue is in the full name of the Party abbreviated to Nazi (National Socialist). Quite where Socialism has any other connection to Hitlers antics is anybody’s guess.

It does however highlight how badly wrong things can go if the working class masses start believing fascist rhetoric. There are disturbing parallels between the 1930s and today.
There was a massive financial crash causing widespread depression/poverty. Hitler chose the Jews to demonise, our modern day fascists choose Islam. Nationalism is rising as it did in the 30s. The post war inclusivity vehicles set up to encourage international relations and discourage future wars are in danger of being dismantled, we’re leaving the EU, the US are rejecting WHO and grumbling about the UN, NATO etc.

The whole right wing left wing thing isn’t a line it’s a circle, if 12:00 is center our politics generally happen between 11:00 & 3:00 (yes we tolerate going further right than we do left). Of course extremists live around 6:00, irrespective of whether they got there via 9:00 or via 3:00 it’s an ugly place to exist.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 1:30 pm

The Nazi party prior to the Rohm Purge did have both and left and right wings, the SA for instance was largely made up of the working classes and did promote actual socialism whereas the SS which was made up largely of the middle classes and was anti capitalist. The labels aren't at all important though and whether you're a left or right wing extremist you're still an extremist but beyond face value the Tebbit comment isn't as ridiculous as it sounds.

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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 1:44 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:The Nazi party prior to the Rohm Purge did have both and left and right wings, the SA for instance was largely made up of the working classes and did promote actual socialism whereas the SS which was made up largely of the middle classes and was anti capitalist. The labels aren't at all important though and whether you're a left or right wing extremist you're still an extremist but beyond face value the Tebbit comment isn't as ridiculous as it sounds.

The Tebbit comment kind of is and isn’t at the same time, whilst not entirely inaccurate if the right context is applied, it’s clearly aimed at those who struggle in the thinking/dyor dept. Much like how the Tories also demonise Labour for the banking crisis, as they were in power at the time. Of course they had no inkling what was going on in the Boardrooms of Golden Sacks, Lehman’s etc.

I will never cease to be amazed at how many are prepared to lap up the inaccurate Poopie spouted and still being spouted to this day

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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 1:52 pm

Worry less about what words are in their name and more about the aims of the Nazi party. Then think about who in today's politics shares more of those aims.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 1:59 pm

McLaren wrote:Worry less about what words are in their name and more about the aims of the Nazi party. Then think about who in today's politics shares more of those aims.

Fortunately he's not the leader of the Labour Party anymore.

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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:15 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Worry less about what words are in their name and more about the aims of the Nazi party. Then think about who in today's politics shares more of those aims.

Fortunately he's not the leader of the Labour Party anymore.

Lol are you actually comparing Corbyn to Hitler?? Proof positive that those kind of Tebbitty comments work then?


Last edited by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:20 pm

So hypothetically...in trying to transpose the night of the long knives into present day political discourse...humour me Super, would you say that momentum were more the SA or the SS?

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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:27 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:Worry less about what words are in their name and more about the aims of the Nazi party. Then think about who in today's politics shares more of those aims.

Fortunately he's not the leader of the Labour Party anymore.



Lol are you actually comparing Corbyn to Hitler?? Proof positive that those kind of Tebbitty comments work then?

Christ Jas, it was a bloody joke, I know Corbyn and Labour are famous for a lack of humour but I didn't think you'd caught it.


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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:44 pm

You mean banter? As in 2 way banter?

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Post by dynamark on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 2:49 pm

When you think about it just amazing Corbyn was leader of anything .Not sure id allow him to be a crossing warden.Someone obviously had a plan

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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:03 pm

dynamark wrote:When you think about it just amazing Corbyn was leader of anything .Not sure id allow him to be a crossing warden.Someone obviously had a plan

That’s what I find quite amusing Dyna, one moment the Right wing media had him as an evil despot, the next minute they also had him as a dithering idiot. By definition how could he have been both.

For me some of his rhetoric about poverty and inequality resonated (infact it still does). I was prepared to overlook the inadequacies of leadership to get the principles. In reality on reflection had he been elected he’d probably have been assassinated by now for being so flip floppy indecisive. It was probably essential for the survival of the Labour party (for now) that he didn’t get in given what was round the corner. There is part of me that says, actually he may have done better (locked down earlier, and more securely, secured enough PPE etc) However I’m more of the view that the elites would have grounded him high and dry and he wouldn’t have been sharp enough to outwit them.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:15 pm

Why would he have locked down earlier? It was Sage who advised the government not to lockdown earlier. Do you seriously think that Corbyn would go against the team who would be his advisers?

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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:17 pm

The issue with Corbyn is that he is a prime example of how it is not just sufficient to hold the correct position but it also matters how you came to that position. He held good ideas but clearly through luck rather than having a good epistemology.  
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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:19 pm

I see Corbyn in a skirt Rebecca Long Bailey has been fired.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:22 pm

superflyweight wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:Hitler was far left. Who knew?

Norman Tebbit trying to rewrite history.
🤷 Extreme left and right. Neither have a proud history.

No, but no one ever claims that Stalin or Mao were far right.
Fair point! OK
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:24 pm

McLaren wrote:The issue with Corbyn is that he is a prime example of how it is not just sufficient to hold the correct position but it also matters how you came to that position. He held good ideas but clearly through luck rather than having a good epistemology.  
Laugh
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:25 pm

super_realist wrote:I see Corbyn in a skirt Rebecca Long Bailey has been fired.
Nah. Anti-Semitism in Labour wasn't an issue...
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Post by JAS on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:45 pm

super_realist wrote:Why would he have locked down earlier? It was Sage who advised the government not to lockdown earlier. Do you seriously think that Corbyn would go against the team who would be his advisers?

Aye and if the government has followed every word of scientific advice I’m a monkeys uncle. When they say “Following the science” what they actually mean is

We let the scientists present all their data, facts, recommendations etc then select the bits we like. There may be some bits we don’t like and we’ll use those too if the alternative would be we’d be completely exposed as incompetent liars. The beauty of all that is if we do end up with world body count bronze medal we can always blame the scientists

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:57 pm

beninho wrote:Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.  

Sage weren't advising the government to lockdown at the time.
You can look in the Sage minutes if you like.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 3:59 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:Why would he have locked down earlier? It was Sage who advised the government not to lockdown earlier. Do you seriously think that Corbyn would go against the team who would be his advisers?

Aye and if the government has followed every word of scientific advice I’m a monkeys uncle. When they say “Following the science” what they actually mean is

We let the scientists present all their data, facts, recommendations etc then select the bits we like. There may be some bits we don’t like and we’ll use those too if the alternative would be we’d be completely exposed as incompetent liars.  The beauty of all that is if we do end up with world body count bronze medal we can always blame the scientists

Nice way of trying to circumvent that Sage did not advise lockdown earlier, so if they didn't, why would Corbyn have done so?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 4:00 pm

beninho wrote:Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.  

As opposed to just blindly believing the opposite.

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 4:20 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.  

Sage weren't advising the government to lockdown at the time.
You can look in the Sage minutes if you like.

But they did advise a significant increase in testing? Which wasn't followed, in fact wasn't it restricted ?


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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 4:40 pm

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.  

Sage weren't advising the government to lockdown at the time.
You can look in the Sage minutes if you like.

But they did advise a significant increase in testing? Which wasn't followed, in fact wasn't it restricted ?

Umm. Maybe, just maybe, UK didn't have capacity? Another issue, but doesn't equate to UKG ignoring the suggestion.
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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 5:33 pm

Also SAGE do not encompass all scientific advice. Many epidemiologists and other relevant specialties were questioning what SAGE were doing as far back as February.



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Post by westisbest on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 5:43 pm

Packed beaches again here in Bournemouth. Some folks are acting surprised.

Some, I’ve heard have come as far as the midlands.
Not really surprising when you can travel far distances.

I’ve seen a video of groups of people fighting.

This will continue until something changes.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 5:52 pm

I get why Starmer has to be firm on anything surrounding Jews but I have just read the bit in the Maxine Peak interview that has been deemed anti semetic.

Guardian Live Feed wrote:Born in Bolton to a lorry driver father and care worker mother, Peake is strident and expressive; if religion wasn’t anathema to her, she’d be perfect in the pulpit. “Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” (A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”.)

Not exactly the lizard people or new world order stuff I was expecting to find.
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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 6:22 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Are people still believing the government just followed the science?

OK.  

Sage weren't advising the government to lockdown at the time.
You can look in the Sage minutes if you like.

But they did advise a significant increase in testing? Which wasn't followed, in fact wasn't it restricted ?

Umm. Maybe, just maybe, UK didn't have capacity? Another issue, but doesn't equate to UKG ignoring the suggestion.

Thats the issue, we probably didn't. But, back in March we weren't told that, nor in April. I'm sure, Johnson said we were ready. It wasn't for weeks that it came out that we weren't. So, basically, they tried to con everyone along. Tge Charlie Brooker Show was very good for remembering what was said.

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 6:24 pm

McLaren wrote:I get why Starmer has to be firm on anything surrounding Jews but I have just read the bit in the Maxine Peak interview that has been deemed anti semetic.

Guardian Live Feed wrote:Born in Bolton to a lorry driver father and care worker mother, Peake is strident and expressive; if religion wasn’t anathema to her, she’d be perfect in the pulpit. “Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” (A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”.)

Not exactly the lizard people or new world order stuff I was expecting to find.

But, it opens up questionable judgement to praise an article with that in. Sack her for stupidity.

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Post by beninho on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 6:27 pm

Its good that tory mps clapped on a Thursday but don't want routine covid tests for NHS or care workers.

All that nhs talk, was just nonsense then.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 7:19 pm

westisbest wrote:Packed beaches again here in Bournemouth. Some folks are acting surprised.

Some, I’ve heard have come as far as the midlands.
Not really surprising when you can travel far distances.

I’ve seen a video of groups of people fighting.

This will continue until something changes.

A second spike wouldn't surprise me. Doubt if HMG could enforce a second lockdown.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 25 Jun 2020, 9:40 pm

beninho wrote:
McLaren wrote:I get why Starmer has to be firm on anything surrounding Jews but I have just read the bit in the Maxine Peak interview that has been deemed anti semetic.

Guardian Live Feed wrote:Born in Bolton to a lorry driver father and care worker mother, Peake is strident and expressive; if religion wasn’t anathema to her, she’d be perfect in the pulpit. “Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” (A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”.)

Not exactly the lizard people or new world order stuff I was expecting to find.

But, it opens up questionable judgement to praise an article with that in. Sack her for stupidity.

Does it though? The context of that paragraph seems to be about how the militarization of the police has been devastating for black Americans. It is ridiculous to think that was an anti Semitic comment.

I am not a fan of hers so I don't really care but she has gone because Starmer was always going to off people like her the first chance he got.
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Post by beninho on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 7:03 am

'The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd's neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.'

Maybe, its not outright anti semitic, but its trying to pin something back on Israel, when its got nothing to do with them. If RLB wasn't aware, she had to be seen to be pretty clean, after her position in the previous regime and claims of AS. There was also a report about sonething during the leadership hustings.

But, what was maybe so hard to have tweeted, Maxibe Peake, what a diamond...unsure sbout the Israeli secret services but though. Sbe would have been fine.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 7:43 am

Also aren't we always told not to equate Israel and Jews? Seems the Jewish interest groups are happy to do so when it suits them.
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Post by JAS on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 9:00 am

McLaren wrote:Also aren't we always told not to equate Israel and Jews? Seems the Jewish interest groups are happy to do so when it suits them.

That's what I struggle with, I deplore racism, anti semitism, indeed all forms of discrimination and bigotry but where does the line get drawn? How can one state be criticised for certain actions but if anyone criticises Israel for the same actions they are then anti-semitic. Are Israel agitating for a free pass on human rights abuses?

I've even heard it in the banking world, criticise the behaviour of RBS, Citibank, Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman etc leading up to the financial crisis...fine. Criticise Goldman Sachs for their role...how very dare you that is so anti semitic. At the risk of sounding anti semitic, Goldmans were at the very heart of the crisis and to use accusations of antisemitism to deflect away from their role in it is pathetic.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 26 Jun 2020, 9:19 am

beninho wrote:'The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd's neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.'

Maybe, its not outright anti semitic, but its trying to pin something back on Israel, when its got nothing to do with them. If RLB wasn't aware, she had to be seen to be pretty clean, after her position in the previous regime and claims of AS. There was also a report about sonething during the leadership hustings.

But, what was maybe so hard to have tweeted, Maxibe Peake, what a diamond...unsure sbout the Israeli secret services but though. Sbe would have been fine.

Maxine Peake is a well known idiot to be fair, so RLB should have known better tobretweet anything from her. Furthermore she was given the opportunity to retract her tweet, but didn't and Peake's article was also condemnatory of Starmer's leadership.
I've never considered RLB to be bright, but that really confirms it. Good riddance.

Seeing those idiots on the beaches in England, covid or not, how can anyone enjoy being in such a crowded environment? It looks absolutely awful.
Then there's those idiots in Brixton who blamed the police for the disturbance.

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