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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by alfie on Fri 17 Jul 2020, 4:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Stokes gone at last...and Roach gets one at last ! Bit fluky , reverse leg side edge but I think Kemar was entitled to dome good fortune...

Hell of an innings from Stokes thumbsup

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:04 am

Stokes off and running...

I see KP-fan and I are in broad agreement . I wonder should I be worried Smile

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:08 am

The pace they've gone off at would suggest they are targeting getting more than 80 overs bowling so they get a few with the second new ball.

It's looking like a fun days cricket!

Ouch Campbell. That's a shocker.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:10 am

Just noticed Stokes has crossed 200 runs in the test. And yes that was a shocker of a drop.

Don't want England to bat any more than 11 overs. If Stokes carries on for a bit longer, the declaration might come in after 7/8 overs.

Another four!

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:11 am

Stokes batting like a man who doesn't have a side strain. I wonder how he will do bowling...

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:11 am

and he's wearing half-mittens too. Can't blame the drizzle... that looked like a sitter.
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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:20 am

How well Root and Stokes run between the wickets could buy England a couple more overs at the death here.

I'd guess that Stokes might need a 'bathroom break' for the first 2 or 3 overs of the Windies innings to give him a breather.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:23 am

Productive first four overs today...going at 8+

England's only two world class bats in at present of course. So wickets might slow 'em up. But heading for a pretty decent lead with a potential 85 overs to bowl ? Everything they've done since start of innings says they're aiming for an early closure...

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:23 am

If England wickets fall before the declaration ... Sam at 5? His Holiness at 6? Thoughts?

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:24 am

alfie wrote:

England's only two world class bats in at present of course.

Sir Dom Sibley is mildly offended by that but maybe not the man for the moment!

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:25 am

Yep, promote Woakes and Curran up the order if wickets fall would be my choice.

Really good progress from these two this morning. Very selfless stuff from Root to keep turning the strike over.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:26 am

Perhaps also worth noting that West Indies took 99 overs to reach 287 yesterday. You would think batting in second innings might be trickier ; so fifteen overs less to get a similar target seems a tough assignment.
Fifty for Stokes clap

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:28 am

guildfordbat wrote:If England wickets fall before the declaration ... Sam at 5? His Holiness at 6? Thoughts?

I'd have had Pope ready at the start today. But definitely Sam if one falls now.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:29 am

49 added in six overs. Bat a couple more and declare?

Reckon the progress made will have been beyond Root's prior expectation.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

BALL TRACKING

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

I assume that review by Holder was just timewasting!

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:33 am

Nut out.

Yes, I think maybe only 2-3 more, Duty... up around 290 if possible.
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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:38 am

Must be closing very soon...Root suicide run then , wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Frankly think they have just about enough ; but a couple more overs should be it , no ? Pope in ...with orders to drop and run , I suspect .

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:38 am

guildfordbat wrote:I assume that review by Holder was just timewasting!

I think that's safe to assume!

A bit like the time Andy Murray called for a hawkeye review because he was knackered and wanted a breather Laugh

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:39 am

Feel they couldve declared with the wicket, bit of wasted time. More with the second review....3rd umpire did an excellent job of rushing through it at least

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:40 am

Gooseberry wrote:Feel they couldve declared with the wicket, bit of wasted time. More with the review

I think they are targeting 2 more overs and around 290 total. Holder playing the game by taking overs out the day though!

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:40 am

guildfordbat wrote:I assume that review by Holder was just timewasting!

Yes ..as is this one. They don't want to allow extra overs. Shows their mindset today ...they aren't interested in trying to win this.
All the more reason to start bowling very soon.

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:41 am

alfie wrote:Must be closing very soon...Root suicide run then , wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Frankly think they have just about enough ; but a couple more overs should be it , no ? Pope in ...with orders to drop and run , I suspect .

Good work though by the Windies to accomplish that run out, especially Dowrich being alert as to which man would be in trouble.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:43 am

Time doesn't matter. It's the final day so all the overs have to be bowled even if we go past 7 (provided the light is ok; forecast indicates it should be).

Would hope this is the last over before England declare.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:45 am

Smile

Another review. Give credit ...Holder isn't missing a trick. Good umpiring ...nice and brisk.

That's it for reviews. Holder has slowed the run fest though ...

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:47 am

Duty281 wrote:Time doesn't matter. It's the final day so all the overs have to be bowled even if we go past 7 (provided the light is ok; forecast indicates it should be).

Would hope this is the last over before England declare.

Actually not entirely. Apart from possible light issues : if England bowled their overs quickly enough , they could theoretically have some extra overs.
Of course in the modern era , bowling overs that quickly is a bit unlikely Smile

This should be the last , I think.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:48 am

Magnificent batting from Stokes, again, this morning.

Not sure why England are going on for another over.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:49 am

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Time doesn't matter. It's the final day so all the overs have to be bowled even if we go past 7 (provided the light is ok; forecast indicates it should be).

Would hope this is the last over before England declare.

Actually not entirely. Apart from possible light issues : if England bowled their overs quickly enough , they could theoretically have some extra overs.
Of course in the modern era , bowling overs that quickly is a bit unlikely Smile

This should be the last , I think.

Bowling overs that quickly...about the same chance as seeing Sibley take a hat-trick today!

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:53 am

England going on for another over is just overkill, I think. If the West Indies are 9 down at the conclusion, Root could be in for some pelters.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:55 am

Thought they'd have closed then...Root looked as if he was poised ...

One more ? Hope no more than that. Holder trying every trick in the book here but the lead has gone past 300.


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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:56 am

I can only imagine England are wanting the buffer of keeping slip fielders in for longer to look for wickets. They wont want to feel pressured to put a third man in if edges are going for 4.

Not saying I agree with taking this final over but if it's being done to allow for ultra attacking fields then could be worth the trade off.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:57 am

This is it then...last ball ...yes. Right on cue.

312 to win. 85 to be bowled.

Exactly as KP_fan and I instructed Smile


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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:58 am

Is Stokes the all round all formats best player in the world over the past 18 months? Hard to argue otherwise.

If he can back up his performances with the bat with the ball....

That charge does mean they can crowd the bat with catchers

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 11:59 am

Stupendous from Stokes. Over 250 runs in this test alone. clap

85 overs to take 10 wickets - think England will do it. Two or more wickets before lunch and we're laughing.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:02 pm

Perfect morning with the bat from England - Stokes is just stupid good at this point, enough overs to get them, enough runs to keep the attacking fields the whole time...spot on for me
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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:03 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Is Stokes the all round all formats best player in the world over the past 18 months? Hard to argue otherwise.

If he can back up his performances with the bat with the ball....

That charge does mean they can crowd the bat with catchers

Fun question and probably he is, yes.

Holder is offering stiff competition though.

Honourable mention to Rashid Khan who is an outstanding bowling all rounder. If Afghanistan played more Tests or he had red ball opportunities at first-class level then I could see his batting developing to Holder's standards. He can really give the ball a whack! Plus of course his leg spin, though somewhat unorthodox and a product of the T20 era, is outstanding.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:07 pm

Stokes is in the middle of a push to be considered England's greatest ever cricketer.

Not there yet, but if he maintains the same level of ability over the next 3+ years...who knows?

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:Stokes is in the middle of a push to be considered England's greatest ever cricketer.

Not there yet, but if he maintains the same level of ability over the next 3+ years...who knows?

Steady on , Duty ! That's a big call Smile

Hobbs , Grace , Hammond ...etc etc.

Let's shoot for best ever all rounder first , eh ?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:14 pm

BROADY

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:14 pm

Good review !

One gone already Yahoo

Glad Root has better ears than his keeper Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:15 pm

Root gets in a review with about 0.00004 seconds left and it shows a spike.

Campbell was unlikely to hang in for long, but that's a top early breakthrough.

Buttler didn't even appeal?!! Broad loved it though.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:15 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Is Stokes the all round all formats best player in the world over the past 18 months? Hard to argue otherwise.

If he can back up his performances with the bat with the ball....

That charge does mean they can crowd the bat with catchers

Fun question and probably he is, yes.

Holder is offering stiff competition though.

Honourable mention to Rashid Khan who is an outstanding bowling all rounder. If Afghanistan played more Tests or he had red ball opportunities at first-class level then I could see his batting developing to Holder's standards. He can really give the ball a whack! Plus of course his leg spin, though somewhat unorthodox and a product of the T20 era, is outstanding.

A pedantic addition to this, but recent discussions on this thread of Alec Stewart as an opener vs being a wicket-keeper to give England an 'all-rounder' made me think of it. Quinton de Kock is an exceptional cricketer who basically acts as South Africa's all rounder in all 3 formats. Excellent wicket keeper, opens the batting exceptionally in one day cricket and bats up the order in Tests these days.

Offering that batting alongside his keeping basically buys South Africa room for an extra bowling all-rounder in Dwaine Pretorious who in a Test side with the keeper at 7 would struggle to play given he probably wouldn't bat at 6.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:16 pm

Yes Stu!

England are right in the drivers seat here.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:20 pm

Not sure about that decision myself.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:23 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Not sure about that decision myself.

Why not , Soul ? Clear enough spike...not sure what else could have caused it ?

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:25 pm

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Not sure about that decision myself.

Why not , Soul ?  Clear enough spike...not sure what else could have caused it ?

On the slow-motion replay, it also looked as though the ball deviated after passing the bat.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Not sure about that decision myself.

Why not , Soul ?  Clear enough spike...not sure what else could have caused it ?

The spike appeared to be before the ball passed the bat to me, having hotspot as an aid would help.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:30 pm

king_carlos wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Is Stokes the all round all formats best player in the world over the past 18 months? Hard to argue otherwise.

If he can back up his performances with the bat with the ball....

That charge does mean they can crowd the bat with catchers

Fun question and probably he is, yes.

Holder is offering stiff competition though.

Honourable mention to Rashid Khan who is an outstanding bowling all rounder. If Afghanistan played more Tests or he had red ball opportunities at first-class level then I could see his batting developing to Holder's standards. He can really give the ball a whack! Plus of course his leg spin, though somewhat unorthodox and a product of the T20 era, is outstanding.

A pedantic addition to this, but recent discussions on this thread of Alec Stewart as an opener vs being a wicket-keeper to give England an 'all-rounder' made me think of it. Quinton de Kock is an exceptional cricketer who basically acts as South Africa's all rounder in all 3 formats. Excellent wicket keeper, opens the batting exceptionally in one day cricket and bats up the order in Tests these days.

Offering that batting alongside his keeping basically buys South Africa room for an extra bowling all-rounder in Dwaine Pretorious who in a Test side with the keeper at 7 would struggle to play given he probably wouldn't bat at 6.

Didnt realise it but Stokes is actually behind Holder in the ICC test all rounder rankings, although that doesnt include this game. Makes the top 10 as a batsman, now averaging 55 in the past 18 months. Hes way ahead in ODIs, although neither feature in the T20 rankings thats because they hardly ever play the format internationally outside tournaments. Honorable mention fro Woakes he sniffs in the top 10 all rounders for tests and ODIs.
Nabi does top the all rounder rankings for both whiteball formats, but that is fudged a bit by the quality of opposition and so many top stars not playing often.
It does throw up a bit of an oddity that domestically all the money is in T20 and 50 over cricket is dying, whereas internationally boards are far keener on hosting ODIs than T20s.

QDC is the player England want Buttler/Bairstow to be in tests, maybe not an exceptional keeper but good enough an d a good enough bat to make up for not having a Ben Stokes.

Other thing to note with Stokes is how much he seems to have learnt and improved by playing international cricket and premium domestic competitions. He started off on the international mill pretty young and really didnt do that much at all early days. Played very little cricket for his county, but has just got better and better. I never had him pegged as a genuine top 5 bat, and despite his run in the last couple of years still only averages in the mid 30s but hes matching Steve Smith for reliability now despite playing some tricky conditions. Smith of course another player who if you'd seen him early days you would never have thought he'd go on to be number 2 in the all time batting ratings! Maybe theres hope for Billings yet Whistle


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Post by Duty281 on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:33 pm

That ball that shot low is super encouraging for England - similar ball got Blackwood yesterday.

Good start this.

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Post by alfie on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:37 pm

Been impressed with Broad and Woakes in this spell . Only one wicket so far though...and the stubborn Brathwaite is the one they really want out - preferably before lunch.

Bowling gets harder as the ball ages so they need to do a bit more damage early on , I think.

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Post by guildfordbat on Mon 20 Jul 2020, 12:39 pm

Duty281 wrote:Magnificent batting from Stokes, again, this morning.

Not sure why England are going on for another over.

Oh yes! Ebony on Sky praised Stokes' ''adaptability''. Precisely. Whilst that is an attribute which puts him in the category of world class and so its difficulty should not be underestimated, it is still something which others in the England team should seek to achieve or at least get better at. Sibley immediately comes to mind here but another it also applies to is Burns.

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