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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by alfie Fri 17 Jul 2020, 4:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Stokes gone at last...and Roach gets one at last ! Bit fluky , reverse leg side edge but I think Kemar was entitled to dome good fortune...

Hell of an innings from Stokes thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:09 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Gabriel's done for. Silly selection from the West Indies - now they're paying for it. Chase/Cornwall may have to get through more overs than a fielding side would like in these conditions.

Think 300 overs could be an upper estimate and we'd be fortunate to get that many. Only way I see a result happening is if it's a 190 all out plays 160 all out type test.

So ideally we want England to be bowled out shortly after tea , and grab , say , four wickets this evening ? Not impossible...

Would be nice but Burns and Root look dug in for the long haul!

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:10 pm

He's a big lad , that Cornwall !

Decent first over thumbsup

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Gabriel's done for. Silly selection from the West Indies - now they're paying for it. Chase/Cornwall may have to get through more overs than a fielding side would like in these conditions.

Think 300 overs could be an upper estimate and we'd be fortunate to get that many. Only way I see a result happening is if it's a 190 all out plays 160 all out type test.

So ideally we want England to be bowled out shortly after tea , and grab , say , four wickets this evening ? Not impossible...

Would be nice but Burns and Root look dug in for the long haul!

I'm sure they can manage a collapse at some stage Smile

Rather a proper start , anyway. Will worry about batting too long if they're still going at 1.5 over over after lunch...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Would quite like to see England be proactive against the spinners today - force the field out, or Holder to bring back the already tired/injured quicks

Can't be letting Chase bowl 15 overs at 2 runs an over again

Agreed.  Not much point in going bowler heavy if you aren't going to score fast and get the opposition in early as practically possible .

Root already sweeping and moving about his crease against Cornwall, 7 off the over.
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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:35 pm

Good to see Root getting into gear. Very watchful early on : five off 43 I think it was . Probably partly constrained by knowledge of the rather abbreviated batting list to follow.
More his busy self last couple of overs.

Gabriel back on. Hmm...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:41 pm

Goodness, getting run-out on the first morning of a test. No worse crime in cricket.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:41 pm

Ouch. Run out. 47/2 with Root gone just as he was starting to motor. Good piece of fielding !

Hope Stokes can keep his streak going...

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:42 pm

One of Woakes or Bess, for me. Too much change for the Stokes issue and you’ve put your best two bats out of place for it.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:Goodness, getting run-out on the first morning of a test. No worse crime in cricket.

Even worse than winning the toss and not batting. Wink

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:56 pm

alfie wrote:Before it all happens I guess I should say what I think of the selection (much easier to do so in hindsight , but to be fair...)

If Stokes won't bowl , they had to pick Archer (or Wood , I suppose). So either drop a bat or the spinner ...and they've taken the aggressive approach. Can't complain there.  

BUT : the batting is fragile. Not much you could do with that , though Crawley might feel a little hard done by after his good knock in the first match , with Pope preferred to him despite no runs in the series. Suppose the one other option was Curran instead of Woakes : better recent batting form ,  left arm option , knack of getting wickets out of the blue...but as Woakes would have been in my top three seamers
I'd be loath to leave him out...

So : I'm happy - if a bit anxious - with the XI.

Hi again Alfie - water under the bridge now, I guess, but did they have to pick Archer or even Wood? Thinking back to Lloyd's comments last week, the Lancs bowlers who have done very well at Old Trafford in recent years have been Onions, Bailey, Anderson and Chapple. All in the fast-medium bracket rather than an out and out speedster. That's why I fancied retaining Curran plus him being able to knock up a few quick runs a handy bonus.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:06 pm

66-2, England marginally the happier I would say on match situation alone.

But it looks as though we're sleepily heading towards a tame draw (evens at the moment).

Apparently Root's only averaging 39 since the start of 2019; that's quite poor from a man who was once in the same class as Kohli, Williamson and Smith.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:11 pm

Hi Guildford...

Well I was thinking the lack of the short/bouncy option if things go flat , with Stokes unable to do his thing. I take your point about the fast medium seamers ; and to be honest I would generally be happy with that sort of attack , especially given the likely conditions. I don't think this particular England outfit would though , somehow. They seem rather wedded to their "plan B , short and fast " .
Whether they've made the best choice , who knows ? But I can't really say it is without logic.

Even session ? 66/2 off 27. Next tow hours to tell us more...

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Post by VTR Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:12 pm

The curse of the captaincy, certainly every England captain since Nasser Hussain seems burdened by it and drops their average by about 10. My solution is to bring back Joe Denly and make him captain!

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:66-2, England marginally the happier I would say on match situation alone.

But it looks as though we're sleepily heading towards a tame draw (evens at the moment).

Apparently Root's only averaging 39 since the start of 2019; that's quite poor from a man who was once in the same class as Kohli, Williamson and Smith.

Bit early to call the game ! Draw only hot because the weather looks dodgy , no ? Could still easily see England all out today and anything might happen from there.

Root has indeed been a bit down on runs since the World Cup...though for that matter - apart from Stokes , the spectacular exception - none of the duel format bats have have made any runs. Joe will get back I think , not too worried at this point.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:44 pm

alfie wrote:Hi Guildford...

Well I was thinking the lack of the short/bouncy option if things go flat , with Stokes unable to do his thing. I take your point about the fast medium seamers ; and to be honest I would generally be happy with that sort of attack , especially given the likely conditions. I don't think this particular England outfit would though , somehow. They seem rather wedded to their "plan B , short and fast " .
Whether they've made the best choice , who knows ? But I can't really say it is without logic.

Even session ? 66/2 off 27. Next tow hours to tell us more...

Cheers, Alfie. Yeah, I agree they do seem wedded to the ''short and fast'' plan. Might well work against this ordinary Windies line up but I'm not convinced it's the only or even the most suitable plan here.

Yeah, session about even. Maybe have it marginally belonging to the Windies. England two wickets lost and kept in or below third gear.

Far too early for me to make a call on the outcome. I need to see a lot more cricket or actual weather (not just a forecast) first.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:45 pm

Big afternoon for Burns - had a few starts in this series, has played nicely and looked in decent nick...needs to turn that into more than a 30/40 odd
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:46 pm

VTR wrote:The curse of the captaincy, certainly every England captain since Nasser Hussain seems burdened by it and drops their average by about 10. My solution is to bring back Joe Denly and make him captain!

Root's average has dropped by about 10, actually! 52.8 average without the captaincy, 42.01 with it.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:53 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Big afternoon for Burns - had a few starts in this series, has played nicely and looked in decent nick...needs to turn that into more than a 30/40 odd

Definitely. That was my concern about him when first called up at this level. Tbf he was improving before his football injury. Needs to get back on track before long and today would be really good ....

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 1:59 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Big afternoon for Burns - had a few starts in this series, has played nicely and looked in decent nick...needs to turn that into more than a 30/40 odd

Was thinking that myself... Burns generally has been seen as the most settled of the top three bats , due to a couple of good solid , patient , centuries. But his average still languishes in the low thirties - which is not really enough for a Test opener. Not for a team with ambitions of challenging for top spot.
Not an easy time for him....coming back from injury , and now messed about by the pandemic and its effect on the world game. But not a lot of runs so far in these games so he could do with a score.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:00 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Big afternoon for Burns - had a few starts in this series, has played nicely and looked in decent nick...needs to turn that into more than a 30/40 odd

Definitely. That was my concern about him when first called up at this level. Tbf he was improving before his football injury. Needs to get back on track before long and today would be really good ....

Ha ! Hadn't read this when I posted...

Snap ! Smile

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:21 pm

Just thinking things were quiet since lunch ...then Roach goes straight though Stokes ! 92/3 and Pope needs to be his game now...

That was rather out of the blue . Stokes looked a bit shocked.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:22 pm

That was a bit unexpected. All of the West Indies' wickets today haven't been predictable ones.

One more and Buttler comes in...

Big innings for Pope, too - three 12s and a 7 has been his contribution in this series so far.


Last edited by Duty281 on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:23 pm

Was a good nut thumbsup

Nice length . Came back in sharply . Needed a good one to get the big man...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:28 pm

Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire
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Post by VTR Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:31 pm

Had completely forgotten about Hameed, now we have two decent openers he doesn't get talked about much. In the days of Keaton Jennings (playing abysmally at home), he got a lot of press as the player we needed if he hadn't totally lost his way

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:36 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire

Hopefully at a different county and different surroundings he can return to the player he was in 2016.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:37 pm

VTR wrote:Had completely forgotten about Hameed, now we have two decent openers he doesn't get talked about much. In the days of Keaton Jennings (playing abysmally at home), he got a lot of press as the player we needed if he hadn't totally lost his way

Still young enough to come again. Not predicting he will ; but wouldn't rule it out either. That sort of talent shouldn't just vanish.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:45 pm

Fifty for Rory Burns clap

Good knock...and England need it. Hope he can go on now...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire

Hopefully at a different county and different surroundings he can return to the player he was in 2016.

Still only 23...! Lets hope he can carve out a county career first, he's very much in the last chance saloon on that front with Notts you'd think...
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:49 pm

Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:56 pm

Anyone got any idea why Chase hasn't bowled yet ?

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:57 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire

Hopefully at a different county and different surroundings he can return to the player he was in 2016.

Still only 23...! Lets hope he can carve out a county career first, he's very much in the last chance saloon on that front with Notts you'd think...

Yeah, if he fails at Notts he's probably down to hoping the likes of Leicestershire and Derbyshire take him on.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire

Hopefully at a different county and different surroundings he can return to the player he was in 2016.

Still only 23...! Lets hope he can carve out a county career first, he's very much in the last chance saloon on that front with Notts you'd think...

Yeah, if he fails at Notts he's probably down to hoping the likes of Leicestershire and Derbyshire take him on.

I dont think anyone would hope for that!

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:04 pm

alfie wrote:Anyone got any idea why Chase hasn't bowled yet ?

Windies are playing for a draw. They don't want the over rate to be too high!

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Man of summers past, Haseeb Hameed, passes fifty for Notts in their warm up match against Warwickshire

Hopefully at a different county and different surroundings he can return to the player he was in 2016.

Still only 23...! Lets hope he can carve out a county career first, he's very much in the last chance saloon on that front with Notts you'd think...

Yeah, if he fails at Notts he's probably down to hoping the likes of Leicestershire and Derbyshire take him on.

Trouble there though is that the likes of Derbys and Leics are struggling in every sense. Not just on the field but off it financially as well. Unlikely they could afford the risk of having a punt on him if he fails at Notts.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:18 pm

The Dream don’t drop.

Rory gone and England are 122-4. Jos in.

I just don’t understand this team

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:18 pm

Moves well for a big man , Cornwall thumbsup

Very sharp catch at slip to see off Burns...Chase Golden Arm again...

122/4

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:19 pm

Another dismissal out of nowhere. Burns will be terribly disappointed after making a solid start. Odd sort of day this, but the West Indies are gradually chipping away.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:20 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:Anyone got any idea why Chase hasn't bowled yet ?

Windies are playing for a draw. They don't want the over rate to be too high!

There again, it might have been part of an ICC plan to let Cornwall bowl and give encouragement to every overweight club cricketer in the world. Wink

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:Another dismissal out of nowhere. Burns will be terribly disappointed after making a solid start. Odd sort of day this, but the West Indies are gradually chipping away.

Yeah, I was about to say how assured the Surrey boys were looking. Hope that Pope can carry on anyway.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:28 pm

Amazing record , Chase has against Burns. Got him four times now...one reason I was slightly surprised he didn't bowl earlier. Think he quite likes bowling against England Smile

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:34 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner

Imbalance the whole team and sacrifice a batsman for a Woakes/Bess combination just seems unwise. Especially with Jos creaking, Root having to play 3 (I think such a thing should be illegal).

Not sure Bess’s age matters. If it does, he isn’t worth picking if he’s so inexperienced that the team has to do a lot to manage it.

Broad, Jimmy, Jof, Bess/Woakes. Then whatever Stokes can offer, even if it’s 3 overs on a rare occasion, and a bit of Root to help out for the tired and weary.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:40 pm

Sky have thrown up a Buttler/Gilchrist test batting comparison...most pointless thing in the world.

53 overs bowled so far. Even with the extra 30 minutes, we'll be lucky to see 85 overs at this rate.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 3:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:Sky have thrown up a Buttler/Gilchrist test batting comparison...most pointless thing in the world.

53 overs bowled so far. Even with the extra 30 minutes, we'll be lucky to see 85 overs at this rate.

With Cornwall and Chase amongst the bowlers, that's dreadful.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:01 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner

Imbalance the whole team and sacrifice a batsman for a Woakes/Bess combination just seems unwise. Especially with Jos creaking, Root having to play 3 (I think such a thing should be illegal).

Not sure Bess’s age matters. If it does, he isn’t worth picking if he’s so inexperienced that the team has to do a lot to manage it.

Broad, Jimmy, Jof, Bess/Woakes. Then whatever Stokes can offer, even if it’s 3 overs on a rare occasion, and a bit of Root to help out for the tired and weary.

Well in general I don't think the four man attack works, unless you have a top class spinner like a prime Swann. I especially wouldn't want England to be going with one that consists of a 37 year old whose body has broken down seriously twice in the past year and without that top class spinner. The only time I can ever really remember it working was 2010-12 when we had Swann, Anderson and Broad all at the top of their game

Game here is finely poised - another pretty even session there. Buttler not exactly inspiring confidence he'll shake off the poor form so far though...
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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:Sky have thrown up a Buttler/Gilchrist test batting comparison...most pointless thing in the world.

53 overs bowled so far. Even with the extra 30 minutes, we'll be lucky to see 85 overs at this rate.

Yes, I suspect I'm not the only one who thought that a little...embarrassing ?

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:29 pm

Dowritch is having a horrible time behind the stumps...I reckon he always looks a bit untidy ; though to be fair he's taken a couple of good catches in these games.
Doesn't look at all comfortable today. Byes , fumbles.

145/4. Run rate under 2.5 so neither side really going anywhere at the moment. Gabriel winding himself up for another go...

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:34 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Sky have thrown up a Buttler/Gilchrist test batting comparison...most pointless thing in the world.

53 overs bowled so far. Even with the extra 30 minutes, we'll be lucky to see 85 overs at this rate.

With Cornwall and Chase amongst the bowlers, that's dreadful.

Cornwall doesn't even have a run-up, just two steps and bowls. He and Chase have bowled 25% of the overs, so I can't understand how they're bowling at nearly as low as 12 overs per hour.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:40 pm

Don't think they're in any hurry.  Still surprisingly slow over rate though. Haven't been any long delays ...no drs hold ups...

Bowlers getting tired now I think. Some loose stuff coming down and England are starting to take advantage of it.  A welcome lift to the run rate.
Review for lbw now but I think they're just fishing...

Actually closer than I thought ! Umpires call on height so Pope survives...

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