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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by alfie Fri 17 Jul 2020, 4:31 pm

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Stokes gone at last...and Roach gets one at last ! Bit fluky , reverse leg side edge but I think Kemar was entitled to dome good fortune...

Hell of an innings from Stokes thumbsup

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:43 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner

Imbalance the whole team and sacrifice a batsman for a Woakes/Bess combination just seems unwise. Especially with Jos creaking, Root having to play 3 (I think such a thing should be illegal).

Not sure Bess’s age matters. If it does, he isn’t worth picking if he’s so inexperienced that the team has to do a lot to manage it.

Broad, Jimmy, Jof, Bess/Woakes. Then whatever Stokes can offer, even if it’s 3 overs on a rare occasion, and a bit of Root to help out for the tired and weary.

Well in general I don't think the four man attack works, unless you have a top class spinner like a prime Swann. I especially wouldn't want England to be going with one that consists of a 37 year old whose body has broken down seriously twice in the past year and without that top class spinner. The only time I can ever really remember it working was 2010-12 when we had Swann, Anderson and Broad all at the top of their game

Game here is finely poised - another pretty even session there. Buttler not exactly inspiring confidence he'll shake off the poor form so far though...

Hi Dolph - as always it's a game of opinions but I do side with our Norfolk correspondent on this.

Rather than seeing who can help us out to get through the necessary overs, our top priority should be having a bowling unit to take 20 wickets. Obviously we still need to be left with enough batters to make a decent score - you think we haven't got enough and I can understand that. However, there's always going to be some sort of imbalance when your premier all rounder can't (properly) bowl.

Whilst I would have picked different individuals at outset of this match (Curran in place of Archer, Crawley for Pope), my approach was the same as the England management in choosing to bolster the bowling rather than the batting. Particularly as we have to dismiss the Windies twice to win the Test and win back the Wisden Trophy.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:48 pm

Good fifty Pope clap

Couple of really nice shots in the last few minutes. Good to see him back in runs after a couple of dry games.

England gradually getting on top.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:48 pm

Curse from the armchair but Pope looking good and as if he can go big ....

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 4:53 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner

Imbalance the whole team and sacrifice a batsman for a Woakes/Bess combination just seems unwise. Especially with Jos creaking, Root having to play 3 (I think such a thing should be illegal).

Not sure Bess’s age matters. If it does, he isn’t worth picking if he’s so inexperienced that the team has to do a lot to manage it.

Broad, Jimmy, Jof, Bess/Woakes. Then whatever Stokes can offer, even if it’s 3 overs on a rare occasion, and a bit of Root to help out for the tired and weary.

Well in general I don't think the four man attack works, unless you have a top class spinner like a prime Swann. I especially wouldn't want England to be going with one that consists of a 37 year old whose body has broken down seriously twice in the past year and without that top class spinner. The only time I can ever really remember it working was 2010-12 when we had Swann, Anderson and Broad all at the top of their game

Game here is finely poised - another pretty even session there. Buttler not exactly inspiring confidence he'll shake off the poor form so far though...

Hi Dolph - as always it's a game of opinions but I do side with our Norfolk correspondent on this.

Rather than seeing who can help us out to get through the necessary overs, our top priority should be having a bowling unit to take 20 wickets. Obviously we still need to be left with enough batters to make a decent score - you think we haven't got enough and I can understand that. However, there's always going to be some sort of imbalance when your premier all rounder can't (properly) bowl.

Whilst I would have picked different individuals at outset of this match (Curran in place of Archer, Crawley for Pope), my approach was the same as the England management in choosing to bolster the bowling rather than the batting. Particularly as we have to dismiss the Windies twice to win the Test and win back the Wisden Trophy.

True, I just suppose I don’t see having a Woakes and Bess combination as extremely necessary in this test. If you go with three frontline bowlers - which I’m guessing their first choice were Broad, Archer and Anderson - then the other two seem to be about workload. And as you can probably make up that workload in this side without the necessity of both Woakes and Bess.

I’d wonder whether they’ve taken the bigger risk and the one with the least reward.

It might just be that I instantly refuse to trust any opinion of Olly’s when Woakes is involved

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:05 pm

Can't see Cornwall running through England here. Tidy enough ; but not exactly menacing.
Chase seems under bowled .

This partnership batting England into a very handy position. Run rate edging up towards three per over thumbsup

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:11 pm

And Buttler seems to agree with my assessment of Cornwall Smile

Couple of big sixes and the 200 is up...

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Post by king_carlos Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:11 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Curse from the armchair but Pope looking good and as if he can go big ....

He's looking reminiscent of Root at his best here. Rotating the strike with ease and punishing anything loose.

In other words we're about to see a world class 73.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:14 pm

Hi again Dolph - an England win here will clearly justify any risk and give the best reward. If not ... well, that leaves the management open to criticism but that's what they're paid for. I'm not, so I won't say any more on their behalf for now.

Regardless of Olly's opinion, trust me - Woakes is actually a good bowler and someone doing more than making up the workload. Wink

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:16 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well done Rory. Good innings so far as everything else seems a bit weird around him.

Think England might just be punished for their hubris in assuming they could leave out a batsman to extend their bowling options.

I don't think they could go in with just four frontline bowling options, especially one being a young spinner

Imbalance the whole team and sacrifice a batsman for a Woakes/Bess combination just seems unwise. Especially with Jos creaking, Root having to play 3 (I think such a thing should be illegal).

Not sure Bess’s age matters. If it does, he isn’t worth picking if he’s so inexperienced that the team has to do a lot to manage it.

Broad, Jimmy, Jof, Bess/Woakes. Then whatever Stokes can offer, even if it’s 3 overs on a rare occasion, and a bit of Root to help out for the tired and weary.

Well in general I don't think the four man attack works, unless you have a top class spinner like a prime Swann. I especially wouldn't want England to be going with one that consists of a 37 year old whose body has broken down seriously twice in the past year and without that top class spinner. The only time I can ever really remember it working was 2010-12 when we had Swann, Anderson and Broad all at the top of their game

Game here is finely poised - another pretty even session there. Buttler not exactly inspiring confidence he'll shake off the poor form so far though...

Hi Dolph - as always it's a game of opinions but I do side with our Norfolk correspondent on this.

Rather than seeing who can help us out to get through the necessary overs, our top priority should be having a bowling unit to take 20 wickets. Obviously we still need to be left with enough batters to make a decent score - you think we haven't got enough and I can understand that. However, there's always going to be some sort of imbalance when your premier all rounder can't (properly) bowl.

Whilst I would have picked different individuals at outset of this match (Curran in place of Archer, Crawley for Pope), my approach was the same as the England management in choosing to bolster the bowling rather than the batting. Particularly as we have to dismiss the Windies twice to win the Test and win back the Wisden Trophy.

True, I just suppose I don’t see having a Woakes and Bess combination as extremely necessary in this test. If you go with three frontline bowlers - which I’m guessing their first choice were Broad, Archer and Anderson - then the other two seem to be about workload. And as you can probably make up that workload in this side without the necessity of both Woakes and Bess.

I’d wonder whether they’ve taken the bigger risk and the one with the least reward.

It might just be that I instantly refuse to trust any opinion of Olly’s when Woakes is involved

Woakes has the best wicket taking record of any bowler in home tests over the past few years. He should be the go to guy, hes not "a workload bowler". The Gabriel incident, and Englands issues in the last Ashes and over the winter show that picking just three seamers is too much of a risk for them. They maybe could've lived without Bess but really does Crawley add that much in a game they are chasing a win that likely to be heavily rain affected? The five bowlers strategy is a bit of a gamble but most (any except when stokes is fit) teams dont have the luxury of the number 3 ranked batsman in the world being able to bowl at under 30. Most teams only have 5 out and and proper batsmen, a batting allrounder, a keeper and a tail...in the west indies case its arguable they dont even have 3 proper test bats.

Its of course easy to hindsight it and point to the early wickets as the risk, but I think this was a risk they accepted although they wouldve hoped for a bit more from Sibley given hes been the hardest man in cricket to get out in the last year. We are currently witnessing the flip side...Buttler and Pope smashing enough quickly to put some pressure on the west indies. If the bowlers deliver then England get in a winning position despite the dodgy weather.



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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:19 pm

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Curse from the armchair but Pope looking good and as if he can go big ....

He's looking reminiscent of Root at his best here. Rotating the strike with ease and punishing anything loose.

In other words we're about to see a world class 73.

Ha! Very Happy I did wonder where you were going from your first sentence.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:25 pm

The other thing we're seeing is that West Indies are struggling with just three seamers - all of whom have played in each match . They are looking pretty weary now ; and the batsmen are collecting runs quite freely . You wonder if they will even have much energy left for a new ball ?
True a wicket or two would change things : but right now you'd think England are on for a good end of day position...

I really do think Chase should have done some bowling.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:26 pm

Scoreboard looking a lot healthier for England at 210/4. Also, run rate noticeably upped by these two and approaching 3.

As we all know so well, 2 quick wickets would change that look considerably but for now we can afford at least a small smile. Smile

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:31 pm

alfie wrote:Can't see Cornwall running through England here. Tidy enough ; but not exactly menacing.
Chase seems under bowled .

This partnership batting England into a very handy position. Run rate edging up towards three per over thumbsup

I certainly can't see Cornwall running. Very Happy

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:36 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Can't see Cornwall running through England here. Tidy enough ; but not exactly menacing.
Chase seems under bowled .

This partnership batting England into a very handy position. Run rate edging up towards three per over thumbsup

I certainly can't see Cornwall running. Very Happy

Very Happy

Four per over since tea. These two doing a good job thumbsup


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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:37 pm

alfie wrote:

I really do think Chase should have done some bowling.

Ask Burns about that

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:43 pm

Have the west indies successfully reviewed a not out lbw in this series?

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:43 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
alfie wrote:

I really do think Chase should have done some bowling.

Ask Burns about that

I mean , some more bowling Smile

West Indies not doing well with drs today... Lost two of three reviews now. To be fair , I thought that was closer than it was.

223/4. They need something from the new ball...

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:47 pm

alfie wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
alfie wrote:

I really do think Chase should have done some bowling.

Ask Burns about that

I mean , some more bowling Smile

West Indies not doing well with drs today...  Lost two of three reviews now.  To be fair , I thought that was closer than it was.

223/4. They need something from the new ball...

The one plus for them is that it will still be new tomorrow and the seamers at least a little bit rested. Forecasts have improved a bit, but theres should be some cloud around as well. Looking at the full picture will probably lose half a day Sunday and most of Monday, but thats much better than what we did have.

Fieldings absolutely gone to pot now, Gabriel can be excused but Braitwaite less so.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:50 pm

All risks can be justified when you win!

The guys they’d have wanted to get the runs have got the runs, that’s definitely a bonus. Would guess Jos is happy to see two spinners out there.

I love Pope. Looks like Pippy Longstocking but a very enjoyable batsman to watch

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:51 pm

West Indies started out flat; now they look like they've given up entirely. Easy runs for Buttler and Pope.

The BBC are currently saying it'll be dry Sunday + Tuesday, but at least half of tomorrow and all of Monday will be rained off. The Met Office only disagree on the dry Sunday - they think most of that will be rained off as well!

Be interesting to see what England's tactics will be if they don't get back on until tomorrow afternoon sometime.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:53 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Curse from the armchair but Pope looking good and as if he can go big ....

He's looking reminiscent of Root at his best here. Rotating the strike with ease and punishing anything loose.

In other words we're about to see a world class 73.

Ha! Very Happy I did wonder where you were going from your first sentence.

Very relieved when Pope nurdled that 4 to get off 73* Laugh

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:53 pm

Really odd not to take the new ball with only a short spell to close

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:54 pm

Pope into the eighties...run rate over three...

New ball due now but I reckon England are taking a real grip on this. Cornwall looking a very questionable selection.

Go berserk tomorrow morning ; get West Indies in around lunch. They are already thinking draw at best so the chance will be there to really put them under pressure.

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 5:58 pm

Fifty for Buttler clap

Relief for him . In truth if he wasn't going to get a score against this lacklustre attack he never would ; but he's mixed defence with attacking strokes really well today. Has a chance to turn it into a big one now...

Taking the new ball at last .

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Post by VTR Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:01 pm

Buttler secures his place in the team for the next two years! Trolling like that aside, hopefully this is the start of something for him rather than a blip in amongst the mediocrity. Surely another failure in this match and he'd have been out for the Pakistan series

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:03 pm

I’ve been in and out today but cannot see the justification in Cornwall bowling so much more than Chase

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:05 pm

VTR wrote:Buttler secures his place in the team for the next two years!

George Dobell with be gutted.

Worth noting that hes now 40 pus in in 3 of his last 6 test innings, which is reasonable for a keeper. Maybe lucked out a little in this situation coming in against a flat opposition, but hes making the most of it so far. Also showed a bit of restraint early on to anchor Pope before starting to go at the spinners.

If these two last out the day whilst still scoring it really puts England in a strong position given how bad the west indies batsmen are and how much they look heads down as a team.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:10 pm

Turns out I was wrong about Woakes being the best at home in recent years, its Anderson.
Averages in England since 2016:
Archer 22
Woakes  20
Anderson 16.3
Broad  26

Also underlines why Broad was dropable.

(Bess 41, Root 53)

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:15 pm

What on earth are they doing
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:16 pm

VTR wrote:Buttler secures his place in the team for the next two years! Trolling like that aside, hopefully this is the start of something for him rather than a blip in amongst the mediocrity. Surely another failure in this match and he'd have been out for the Pakistan series

You may joke, but Geraint Jones once got some runs against some garbage Kiwi and West Indian attacks in 2004 and secured his place for two and a bit years!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:17 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What on earth are they doing

Gonna rain for most of the rest of the game, but hey, it got a tad dark so let’s go off when there was nothing wrong with play

Cricket is so stupid
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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:18 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What on earth are they doing

It was really dangerous out there, Olly. Batsman could barely see the ball, never mind hit it. More intelligent officiating from the world of cricket. Whistle

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:19 pm

Off we go. Light has robbed us of four overs.

Good day England : if Noah's flood doesn't arrive at the weekend they'll have a chance to pile on runs tomorrow and get stuck into a West Indian team which is looking like it's just about had enough...

Hope Pope can get started again tomorrow : deserves a hundred. And Buttler has done a fine job in support ; so they've sort of got away with dropping a batsman , no ?

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Post by alfie Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:What on earth are they doing

It was really dangerous out there, Olly. Batsman could barely see the ball, never mind hit it. More intelligent officiating from the world of cricket. Whistle

Once upon a time they would ask the batsmen...

Reckon these two might have been happy to stay out there !

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Post by Duty281 Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:27 pm

Not trying to overstate it, but I would put all of my earthly possessions, all my fingers and toes, and all the loose change down the back of the sofa on this one being a draw.

If the early part of tomorrow is rained off, I hope England do a daring declaration at something like 350, though I think it's pretty unlikely.

Every batsman who got out today will be kicking themselves that they didn't go on, especially Burns who got through the only testing part of the day unscathed and played a horror shot.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:32 pm

king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Curse from the armchair but Pope looking good and as if he can go big ....

He's looking reminiscent of Root at his best here. Rotating the strike with ease and punishing anything loose.

In other words we're about to see a world class 73.

Ha! Very Happy I did wonder where you were going from your first sentence.

Very relieved when Pope nurdled that 4 to get off 73* Laugh

Ha! Again! Very Happy

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:54 pm

alfie wrote:Off we go.  Light has robbed us of four overs.  

Good day England : if Noah's flood doesn't arrive at the weekend they'll have a chance to pile on runs tomorrow and get stuck into a West Indian team which is looking like it's just about had enough...

Hope Pope can get started again tomorrow : deserves a hundred. And Buttler has done a fine job in support ; so they've sort of got away with dropping a batsman , no ?

For sure. Turned out nice again.

Feel there's a bit too much emphasis on what the weather might do. I'm content just to play the Windies for now.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 24 Jul 2020, 6:56 pm

What is there about Test captains? All three toss decisions were wrong in this series IMHO. Root should have inserted in the first Test and Windies should have batted in Tests 2 and 3.
Good to see the two guys who hadn't made scores making them today. Doubt we'll get a result given the forecast but England very unlikely to lose from here.
Given the proportions of the Windies slow bowler, wonder if it's OK to describe the spinners in this match as Podgy and Bess?

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 24 Jul 2020, 7:29 pm

sirfredperry wrote:What is there about Test captains? All three toss decisions were wrong in this series IMHO. Root should have inserted in the first Test and Windies should have batted in Tests 2 and 3.
  Good to see the two guys who hadn't made scores making them today. Doubt we'll get a result given the forecast but England very unlikely to lose from here.
  Given the proportions of the Windies slow bowler, wonder if it's OK to describe the spinners in this match as Podgy and Bess?

Sir Fred - Holding said exactly the same shortly after Holder won the toss today and before play started.

That's old school thinking for sure but most theories that stay around and become old have substance underlying them.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 24 Jul 2020, 8:36 pm

-at 250 odd for 4 with a super last session, Eng is almost  in a "Undefeatable" position.
The pitch had usual Eng swing and seam in first session....but by no means a green beast worth putting opposition in.

-WI have blundered to have not batted first. If not for anything else, for the sake of giving their 2 picked spinners a chance to bowl in 4th inning.
Once the shine had worn off....you could stand and hit through the line

-WI bowling looked quite benign with 2 sub 80mph seamers....And Rakhim often times a foot short of the right length.
He uses his strong body to give it a real rip....but has to pitch it further up.....for which he has to toss the ball just a bit ...which is easier if the bowler has a bit of a hop/skip/jump/leap at the point of delivery...none of which he has even an inch of and obvious reasons.

-Eng did the right thing by picking 5 bowlers.....but left their batting shallow.....WI could have exploited that had they exposed Eng to a 4th inning 175ish chase....but they blundered I say again.

Now for WI to have a chance..they have to bowl out last 6 for 75 runs.....and than bat for a solid 450 runs....to get back in the game
Possible....but not very likely
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Post by alfie Sat 25 Jul 2020, 2:59 am

England ending the day in a strong position. A lot of folk wondering why Holder chose to field first - especially with tired bowlers from previous games : my take is that he had seen the weather forecast and is having a bit of an each way bet. If he skittles England - fine. But if not , it may well be they bat too long , weather limits game time , and West Indies can bat out the match.
Of course this didn't quite work out for them last time : but it may be that they feel they just don't have the resources to take the more conventional approach . Does make the selection of a spinner instead of a replacement fast bowler a little odd though.

And I acknowledge guildford's point that we should not focus too much on the - predicted - weather. But given the regular prophesies of torrential rain we've been seeing it might be prudent for England to aim at closing earlier than last week in order to move this game along ? Batting into the sixth session is rarely a winning ploy when any sort of time reduction is likely...to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing a few wickets tumble in the morning so they don't get tempted to go too long ! I've a hunch even 350 might be enough to put them in with a good winning chance here as West Indies are looking a bit worn down to me...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 25 Jul 2020, 8:39 am

Journos tweeting that the covers are coming off this morning, albeit quite a patch of rain just off the square...hopefully nothing that can’t be mopped up...
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Post by Gooseberry Sat 25 Jul 2020, 10:05 am

Forecasts seem all over the place and very changeable but at the moment it looks like we are losing Monday and nothing more than minor disruptions other days so there should be plenty of time to force a result the way this is shaping up. I fancy at least one innings will be a complete car crash during this game.
No need for England to rush or worry about declarations first digs, a decent score here piles pressure on the west indies and gives them the comfort to do what they did in the last test and play ODI for the second if needed.
Theres enough in the pitch and cloud all test to ensure wickets will keep falling with two fragile batting line ups. Englands biggest concern now should be Pope and Buttler not continuing from yesterday, given they are facing the new ball with fresh(er) bowlers it wont be so easy going this morning and theres still a danger England could fold quickly and put the west indies back in confident mode. If England see through this morning then the windies are goosed as far as Im concerned, cant see their quicks roaring back in the second and beyond Burns vs Chase the spinners dont seem to have England terrified for a change.

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 25 Jul 2020, 10:43 am

alfie wrote:England ending the day in a strong position. A lot of folk wondering why Holder chose to field first - especially with tired bowlers from previous games : my take is that he had seen the weather forecast and is having a bit of an each way bet. If he skittles England - fine. But if not , it may well be they bat too long , weather limits game time , and West Indies can bat out the match.
Of course this didn't quite work out for them last time : but it may be that they feel they just don't have the resources to take the more conventional approach . Does make the selection of a spinner instead of a replacement fast bowler a little odd though.

And I acknowledge guildford's point that we should not focus too much on the - predicted - weather. But given the regular prophesies of torrential rain we've been seeing it might be prudent for England to aim at closing earlier than last week in order to move this game along ? Batting into the sixth session is rarely a winning ploy when any sort of time reduction is likely...to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing a few wickets tumble in the morning so they don't get tempted to go too long ! I've a hunch even 350 might be enough to put them in with a good winning chance here as West Indies are looking a bit worn down to me...

Yeah on the decision its a hindsight thing all 3 times that it was wrong. England based their decision on trusting their batsmen and the way the pitch had performed in the warm ups, it was based on sound thinking plus the old faithful batting first is never a bad idea. There maybe was a bit of misreading of the pitch but they would've looked even sillier if they'd bowled first and Archer/Woods radar had been as off as it was. With the West Indies they know where their strength and Englands weakness is. Their only real hope is reproducing what happened in the first test, getting England out cheaply then doing enough with the bat to get a lead, and when they see early cloud cover and a touch of green on the pitch not only do they back their bowlers but they also look at their batting line up and know they could lose the test on day one. Even in the second test there was a point where it really looked like the tactic could work with England 81/3. The bit that doesnt quite square is picking two spinners and bowling first, feels like they hedged their bets expecting England would put them in if they lost the toss.

West Indies by the end of the day were absolutely worn down. We've seen this happen to England on some tours in recent years, and it really shows why they went withe rotation system on the bowlers but also the luxury that Stokes gives them in being able to field 5 genuine front line options. I cant think of any other side in the world that can do that and still have a decent bat at 8 (or even 9). Think the other seamers in the west indies squad should feel a bit miffed that they hvaent been given a go, Gabriel has incredible heart but hes clearly not fit to bowl. As with the toss I guess you can argue that West Indies took a big gamble with their selections on running through England, which to be fair but for some sloppy keeping would've done. England too picked a risky looking side, its nice to see two teams laying it on the line and wanting to win a series rather than being afraid to lose it.

I do hope the windies can muster something with the bat and make this another arm wrestle test. Its been a great series so far and deserves a decent finale.

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 25 Jul 2020, 10:49 am

alfie wrote:England ending the day in a strong position. A lot of folk wondering why Holder chose to field first - especially with tired bowlers from previous games : my take is that he had seen the weather forecast and is having a bit of an each way bet. If he skittles England - fine. But if not , it may well be they bat too long , weather limits game time , and West Indies can bat out the match.
Of course this didn't quite work out for them last time : but it may be that they feel they just don't have the resources to take the more conventional approach . Does make the selection of a spinner instead of a replacement fast bowler a little odd though.

And I acknowledge guildford's point that we should not focus too much on the - predicted - weather. But given the regular prophesies of torrential rain we've been seeing it might be prudent for England to aim at closing earlier than last week in order to move this game along ? Batting into the sixth session is rarely a winning ploy when any sort of time reduction is likely...to be honest I wouldn't mind seeing a few wickets tumble in the morning so they don't get tempted to go too long ! I've a hunch even 350 might be enough to put them in with a good winning chance here as West Indies are looking a bit worn down to me...

Thanks, Alfie. I think we're cooking the same bird. Just that maybe I have the oven 10 or 20 degrees lower. In line with goose's post, I just don't want to see our promising 250+/4 fold to under 330 all out. Admittedly that might still be sufficient to put us well on top but we can't bank on that and, if turns out to be the case, will only know it in hindsight.

You're doing an admirable job in trying to find a case for Holder's decision to bowl but, as you acknowledge, it doesn't really stack up with the selection of Cornwall. With so many different factors involved, I would always go old school and choose to bat ... but you know that. Smile

Anyway, I'm more worried about the weather tomorrow and Monday in the recently glorious south. Got tickets for Surrey's 2 day friendly against Middlesex at the Oval. All part of the Government trialling the admittance of spectators to a sporting event. Forecast reasonable for tomorrow but rotten for Monday. According to sources, Surrey have adopted the view that it's their ground so we've won the toss and will bat on day one. Quite right too! Wink

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Post by Duty281 Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:00 am

Slice of luck to get going on time today. Been pelting down in Yorkshire all morning.

Wonder how much play we'll get today with plenty of dark clouds hanging around. And how early will it be when they go off for bad light? Whistle

England should be looking for 400+ from here. Expect the West Indies to drag their heels in the field.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:03 am

If these two are there when (if...) England hit 300 then a big score will be possibly. With Woakes batting form of late we could see wickets tumble if the partnership is broken early.

I'm looking forward to this!

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:12 am

Looking a bit chancy so far but would help if the bowlers new where the crease was and the fielding was up to scratch

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Post by Duty281 Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:12 am

Certainly a bit lively out there with the new ball.

Cornwall drops a sitter. Pope should be out.

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:17 am

So about that only hope for the west indies....

Does make you wonder why they waited an over to take the new ball last night!

Cornwall will be feeling a nit better about that drop now


Last edited by Gooseberry on Sat 25 Jul 2020, 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total

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