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2020/21 Premier League Thread: VAR Check Complete - No Cough

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 10:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

We have our 20 as Fulham take the playoff spot and we welcome back West Brom, Fulham and, most importantly to the nation (apparently) Leeds.

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Post by GSC on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 10:47 am

As abject as United were, Artetas Arsenal revival showing some momentum. Best defense in the league with trips to Liverpool, City and United under their belts so far
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:01 am

With every passing game week it becomes more and more ludicrous Utd haven't just got Pochettino in
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Post by GSC on Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:06 am

Honestly would he even want to stake his next job on Ed Woodward and co
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Post by Atila on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 5:28 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:With every passing game week it becomes more and more ludicrous Utd haven't just got Pochettino in
Personally, I don't understand the fascination people have for Poch getting the United job. He certainly wouldn't be my first choice. That doesn't mean that I have someone in mind for the United job as I don't profess to know who would be a good fit, but Poch has won just as much as Ole....nothing.

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Post by GSC on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 7:52 am

I still think the bigger issue lies in how the club is ran and that's going to handicap any manager who takes the job. Ole having the job is a symptom of a greater problem.

Brendan probably might look back at his Liverpool collapse as a good thing, reinvented himself as a top manager since
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Post by Atila on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 8:18 am

GSC wrote:I still think the bigger issue lies in how the club is ran and that's going to handicap any manager who takes the job. Ole having the job is a symptom of a greater problem.

Brendan probably might look back at his Liverpool collapse as a good thing, reinvented himself as a top manager since
I think you are closer to the mark than those who think that simply sacking Ole is the solution. However, I do think that they changed course a little with their hiring of Ole and former assistant coach Mike Phelan...seem to be a little more cautious with their money and who they buy. I also don't think that recruitment is 100% down to the manager these days at any big club, so blaming Ole for any player that doesn't turn into an immediate success seems harsh. Don't forget too, that many of the players there were bought under Mourinho's watch.

I'm also inclined to not fire managers so quickly. I remember when Ferguson first went to United. There was a time when the knives were out for him too and people thought that United had been hasty in firing the previous manager Ron Atkinson. The board of United were right to be patient with Ferguson weren't they?

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Post by GSC on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 8:35 am

Sure, to an extent true even if a different era. But that doesn't entitle to boundless patience. If Moyes was considered out of his depth after a season then the biggest thing probably saving Ole is that standards have fallen so far since the SAF era.

To me United need a clean break, a manager capable of imprinting his own personality and style on a side. But most importantly, credible and competent management above him to enable that. Poch showed he can do the former at Spurs.
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 12:24 pm

If Manchester United are to remove Ole, who quite frankly is clueless, the overwhelming candidate should be Massimiliano Allegri he’s got proven pedigree - winning league titles with Juve is considered ‘easy’ but he won the league title with Milano as well.

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Post by Atila on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 6:13 pm

GSC wrote:Sure, to an extent true even if a different era. But that doesn't entitle to boundless patience. If Moyes was considered out of his depth after a season then the biggest thing probably saving Ole is that standards have fallen so far since the SAF era.

To me United need a clean break, a manager capable of imprinting his own personality and style on a side. But most importantly, credible and competent management above him to enable that. Poch showed he can do the former at Spurs.
I missed something that you said earlier about Brendan Rodgers " reinvented himself as a top manager". If I owned a club, I would go for him before I would go for Poch. But as he managed Liverpool, I doubt United would consider him.

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Post by Just John on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 7:00 pm

Not overly convinced on this BR stuff. Tried to reinvent Leicester last season, and tried to make them a more possession based side, but it didn’t really work. They’ve resorted back to counter attack play and utilising, Vardy. That’s why they still have more success away from home, and got spanked at home vs WHU, and lost to Villa. They still struggle to break down teams.

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Post by GSC on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:48 pm

Ended up finishing 5th after losing key players to injury over the 2nd half of the season, and now 2nd at an early stage of this year.

Pretty hard to argue with what Brenda's done
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 05 Nov 2020, 1:31 pm

Just John wrote:Not overly convinced on this BR stuff. Tried to reinvent Leicester last season, and tried to make them a more possession based side, but it didn’t really work. They’ve resorted back to counter attack play and utilising, Vardy. That’s why they still have more success away from home, and got spanked at home vs WHU, and lost to Villa. They still struggle to break down teams.

To be fair, a lot of teams do. We caught them cold, but then drew with City (and should have gone for the kill) and barely lost to Liverpool, probably edging the chances. And that’s the Villa that spanked Liverpool.

He’d be daft to ignore Leicester’s strengths, but he’s shown different approaches in his jobs.

Him and Poch should be top two choices. Poch would probably organise that side and fix the key flaws, but I think Rodgers, for all his sins, makes better to watch teams than Poch.

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Post by compelling and rich on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 1:40 pm

cant se us going for a ex liverpool manager

Im not convinced with getting rid of ole and getting poch in will do anything majorly positive. if anything the clubs needs some stability. ole finished 3rd last season and reached two semi finals not bad for a clueless manager. these players have underperformed for 3 different managers, we sacked the manager and let the players continue just reinforcing that they can do what they want. we need someone with united best interest at the club not just their own, something i think ole and phelan will do. the signing under ole have pretty much been positive and if he were to be sacked id feel like the only manager who has taken over and left us in a stronger position than when he joined.

we ended last season pretty well and was going in to the new season in a positive mindset, que the transfer window lots of fans turned very negative and we started this season under a massive cloud. obviously the league for hasnt been the best this season but weve only had six games!! in that six weve had chlesea, spurs and arsenal

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 2:20 pm

Congratulations to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for achieving the prestigious we reached the semi final of the Carabao Cup trophy
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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 2:30 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Congratulations to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for achieving the prestigious we reached the semi final of the Carabao Cup trophy

Your smartarse comments fails when you realise that the two semi finals made reference to were the Europa League and Fa Cup.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 2:42 pm

Are we not above you and we've played City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs? Plus Wolves and Leicester?

I think you have to take manager performance in context, but always examine their own performance. You cant say Ole is a good manager to have because the others managers before did bad too. Although they did better, what with the last two winning actual trophies (and Moyes get to that Community Shield).

And the trophies didn't really matter with them. You looked at the team, the performances, the atmosphere at the club and it was trending downwards. Can't see how Ole's trajectory isn't even worse.

Poch is a very different manager to Solskjaer. That defensive ridiculousness (and the first goal was so bad that the second is barely being examined as also absolutely abysmal) in Europe the other day just wouldn't happen with Poch. Wouldn't with Brenda either, but definitely not Poch. Christ, in Sunday league you'd have had someone on the side shouting to cover the middle.

I'm not sure the recent "flexibility" is a good thing because I'm not sure where the original plan is. What is he deviating from?

You're going to win games as Man United are always going to be able to bring in good players. I do wonder where the influence of the manager is in that. Poch and Brendan can point at players they have signed who werent names that have become important players. And it looks like Solskjaer is making some actively worse. Maguire and Lindelof werent elite players by any means, but they've become worse.

It reminds me of arguments people have over managers with West Ham. They say you can't judge any of our managers because the structure around them is so poor. But good managers and coaches show evidence of their positive work despite that. Ole seems to be allowed to fluctuate between decent and Poopie because "Woodward." Woodward might not be any good, but he's not handed Ole Craig Dawson, Danny Welbeck and Harry Winks and told him to win the league.

I do agree that your club could very well be so immature that they couldn't bring in an ex-Liverpool manager.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 2:50 pm

I do remember an equally awful goal being scored by the very same Demba Ba for Chelsea against Rodgers Liverpool, a team that had its fair share of defensive breakdowns as did Pochettinos Tottenham. The Gerrard slip somewhat disguises the awful shape the Liverpool defence was in at that exact moment, he was five yards within his own half with no defensive cover whatsoever.

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Post by GSC on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 2:55 pm

As above I think Solksjaer is a symptom of the greater problem, but equally he's no kind of solution for a club the size of United. Players need to take some responsibility for their own performances also.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 3:26 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Congratulations to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for achieving the prestigious we reached the semi final of the Carabao Cup trophy

Your smartarse comments fails when you realise that the two semi finals made reference to were the Europa League and Fa Cup.

Bloody hell, what a haul the 2019/20 season was for Manchester United. Big clubs around the land look on in envy at semi finals in the Europa League and Carabao Cup. Solskjaer the magician
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Post by x12x on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 3:52 pm

I think if I still supported United the scariest thing for me would be that if the table was based on just home games, United would be 19th in the table...like they haven't won there this season yet and they've played 4 games.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 4:43 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I do remember an equally awful goal being scored by the very same Demba Ba for Chelsea against Rodgers Liverpool, a team that had its fair share of defensive breakdowns as did Pochettinos Tottenham. The Gerrard slip somewhat disguises the awful shape the Liverpool defence was in at that exact moment, he was five yards within his own half with no defensive cover whatsoever.

I'm sorry, these arent even comparable. That's silly. You're a silly person

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 4:47 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I do remember an equally awful goal being scored by the very same Demba Ba for Chelsea against Rodgers Liverpool, a team that had its fair share of defensive breakdowns as did Pochettinos Tottenham. The Gerrard slip somewhat disguises the awful shape the Liverpool defence was in at that exact moment, he was five yards within his own half with no defensive cover whatsoever.

I'm sorry, these arent even comparable. That's silly. You're a silly person

Perfectly comparable, just doesn't suit your original post to point it out.

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Post by GSC on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 4:51 pm

Gerrard falling over while in possession doesn't really stack up with not leaving someone back for a corner at 0-0 in the first half
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 06 Nov 2020, 5:40 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I do remember an equally awful goal being scored by the very same Demba Ba for Chelsea against Rodgers Liverpool, a team that had its fair share of defensive breakdowns as did Pochettinos Tottenham. The Gerrard slip somewhat disguises the awful shape the Liverpool defence was in at that exact moment, he was five yards within his own half with no defensive cover whatsoever.

I'm sorry, these arent even comparable. That's silly. You're a silly person

Perfectly comparable, just doesn't suit your original post to point it out.

I see. You won the legal argument.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 07 Nov 2020, 2:42 pm

Bruno Fernándes saves OGS’s ass once again as the Portuguese international inspired Man united to come from 0-1 down at Goodison Park to win 3-1. Two goals for Fernándes and first club goal for Cavani.

Pickford did one of those leg breakers on Maguire, again went unpunished

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Post by Atila on Sat 07 Nov 2020, 2:47 pm

Everton 1 Manchester United 3

Good win for United today. I said somewhere earlier in this thread that I believe having no fans in the ground takes away any sort of advantage that teams used to have when they played at home, so I'm not too surprised that United won away at Everton today or that they lost at home the other day to Arsenal.

I hope that Ole gets some credit for todays result.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 07 Nov 2020, 2:58 pm

Ole’s job would probably easier if he never starts Pogba.

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Post by Just John on Sun 08 Nov 2020, 1:50 pm

Relegation looks like three from WBA, Fulham, Sheff Utd and Burnley.

Kane bangs his 150th PL goal

WBA 0-1 Spurs FT
Man City 1-1 Liverpool FT
Leicester 1-0 Wolves FT

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Post by Just John on Sun 08 Nov 2020, 9:21 pm

GSC wrote:Artetas Arsenal revival showing some momentum. Best defense in the league with trips to Liverpool, City and United under their belts so far

Lost at home to Leicester and Villa now. It’s still same old Arsenal under Arteta. Squad just isn’t good enough. They’ve gone defensive to cover their issues, but it’s hindered their attacking play, and they’re still losing games they shouldn’t be. Wasting Aubameyang on the left too.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 8:39 am

I'm not really one for making excuses for multi millionaire footballers but there's got to be a point where they are simply playing too much too often, we'll start to see the injuries piling up and the ridiculous international breaks are just further exasperating the situation.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 8:45 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I'm not really one for making excuses for multi millionaire footballers but there's got to be a point where they are simply playing too much too often, we'll start to see the injuries piling up and the ridiculous international breaks are just further exasperating the situation.

I can't believe the international games schedule they're playing this season, utter nonsense that some are playing three games per break! They don't even do that in a "normal" season
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Post by westisbest on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 12:03 pm

It does seem crazy. England play Ireland on Thursday, is that game really needed?

Then both teams have nations league games Sunday and Wednesday.
Then back to the league that weekend.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 09 Nov 2020, 6:37 pm

Just John wrote:
GSC wrote:Artetas Arsenal revival showing some momentum. Best defense in the league with trips to Liverpool, City and United under their belts so far

Lost at home to Leicester and Villa now. It’s still same old Arsenal under Arteta. Squad just isn’t good enough. They’ve gone defensive to cover their issues, but it’s hindered their attacking play, and they’re still losing games they shouldn’t be. Wasting Aubameyang on the left too.

Perhaps if Arsenal sort their transfer dealings out they'll get somewhere. They did finally invest in the defence this summer after the farce of the summer before when they blow £70m on a another attacker they didn't need. They need a midfield general, someone that's going to dominate and protect their defence.

Currently they look like they'll be chasing Europa League football again.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 6:42 pm

Arsenal look further away from the top four than ever before. Difficult to blame Arteta as the group of players that he has at his disposal are, mostly, a long way apart from Champions League standard.

Brighton, Fulham, West Brom, Burnley and Sheffield United are all adrift from the rest of the league. They've all looked atrocious so far this season, just a matter of which two can manage to be not as bad as the other three in order to survive.

Klopp's 4-2-4 innovation at the weekend was interesting, but ultimately fruitless and didn't pay off. Liverpool's defensive issues are getting worse, with Gomez suffering a 'potentially serious' knee injury today - apparently Liverpool's 14th injury in two months. The fixture pile-up is making a mockery of the sport.

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Post by Atila on Wed 11 Nov 2020, 7:05 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Are we not above you and we've played City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs? Plus Wolves and Leicester?

I think you have to take manager performance in context, but always examine their own performance. You cant say Ole is a good manager to have because the others managers before did bad too. Although they did better, what with the last two winning actual trophies (and Moyes get to that Community Shield).

And the trophies didn't really matter with them. You looked at the team, the performances, the atmosphere at the club and it was trending downwards. Can't see how Ole's trajectory isn't even worse.

Poch is a very different manager to Solskjaer. That defensive ridiculousness (and the first goal was so bad that the second is barely being examined as also absolutely abysmal) in Europe the other day just wouldn't happen with Poch. Wouldn't with Brenda either, but definitely not Poch. Christ, in Sunday league you'd have had someone on the side shouting to cover the middle.

I'm not sure the recent "flexibility" is a good thing because I'm not sure where the original plan is. What is he deviating from?

You're going to win games as Man United are always going to be able to bring in good players. I do wonder where the influence of the manager is in that. Poch and Brendan can point at players they have signed who werent names that have become important players. And it looks like Solskjaer is making some actively worse. Maguire and Lindelof werent elite players by any means, but they've become worse.

It reminds me of arguments people have over managers with West Ham. They say you can't judge any of our managers because the structure around them is so poor. But good managers and coaches show evidence of their positive work despite that. Ole seems to be allowed to fluctuate between decent and Poopie because "Woodward." Woodward might not be any good, but he's not handed Ole Craig Dawson, Danny Welbeck and Harry Winks and told him to win the league.

I do agree that your club could very well be so immature that they couldn't bring in an ex-Liverpool manager.
It has been claimed that Graeme Souness nearly became United manager.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/graeme-souness-reveals-how-he-close-he-came-to-replacing-alex-ferguson-at-manchester-united-69425

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 13 Nov 2020, 5:14 pm

Salah tests positive for Covid - Klopp must be thinking Liverpool are cursed this year.

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Post by GSC on Sun 15 Nov 2020, 1:50 pm

Pep signing an extension at City according to the telegraph
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Post by Just John on Sun 15 Nov 2020, 2:35 pm

Guardiola signs two-year extension. Messi must of given him the nod about next summer

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 20 Nov 2020, 10:21 pm

Good to get back to the PL after the stale international break.

Crucial two games for Tottenham coming up. Home tomorrow against a misfiring Man City team, then away the week after to Chelsea. Take 4, or even 6, points from those games and we'll know they're definitely in contention in the title race.

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Post by Just John on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 7:19 pm

Spurs are genuine title contenders.

Guardiola didn’t address the issues over the summer, so this looks like a long season ahead for City.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 7:21 pm

Mourinho masterclass as Tottenham top the table. Kane was absolutely stupendous in his role today. City's attack, most of which looks out of form, continues to struggle.

Pep's job in peril, despite his recent extension? Apparently City's worst start to the season since 2008, when Mark Hughes was managing.

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Post by JDizzle on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 7:22 pm

Chelsea Spurs will be a tasty one next week.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 7:38 pm

Mourinho reborn, properly glad he’s never got to speak to Woodward again. Early doors yet but Mourinho might be warming up a four finger celebration come May

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 9:55 pm

Manchester United beat West Brom 1-0 via a Bruno Fernándes penalty. WBA had a penalty reversed via VAR. Fernándes had his penalty saved but it was retaken and he scored. Truly woeful performance from Manchester.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 9:58 pm

"Kane has provided nine assists in his nine Premier League games this season, after providing just eight assists in his previous three campaigns, or 94 games, combined."

Good stat which highlights Kane's new role in the Spurs team. Still scoring plenty, too.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 21 Nov 2020, 10:04 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Manchester United beat West Brom 1-0 via a Bruno Fernándes penalty. WBA had a penalty reversed via VAR. Fernándes had his penalty saved but it was retaken and he scored. Truly woeful performance from Manchester.

Was surprised West Brom's pen was reversed. Soft one, yes, but they don't usually get flipped. In the build up to United's pen, I thought a West Brom player was fouled, but no dice from VAR.

Either way, both teams were woeful. You wouldn't have known West Brom were a goal down the way they played the final ten minutes. And United's tempo couldn't be any more pedestrian.

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Post by Lowlandbrit on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 12:11 pm

Every team that fails to score against Fulham this season should be relegated out of principle.

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Post by westisbest on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 1:16 pm

Disappointing from Villa yesterday. Defence was poor.
Inconsistent this season.

Don’t think it was a penalty. Trezeguet made a meal of it.

We move on

Hammers away next. Another tricky game.

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Post by westisbest on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 2:47 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:Every team that fails to score against Fulham this season should be relegated out of principle.

West Brom so far then Wink

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Post by Just John on Sun 22 Nov 2020, 3:49 pm

Second season syndrome for Sheff Utd. Home games were their staple, and this year it’s not happening. Fulham are gone for obvious reasons. You’d imagine it’s a toss up between Burnley and WBA to join them.

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