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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 3:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Great ton from Morgan. Came in at 44/3 - now victory looks assured for England after this partnership.

(Spoiler: It wasn't.)


Last edited by Duty281 on Wed 05 Aug 2020, 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alfie on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 12:12 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Some suggestions in the media they might have to use the same wicket as this game was played on, as the groundsman hasn't, and isn't going to get enough time with the weather to prepare a new pitch. Might bring the idea of an extra spinner into play, considering Yasir was already getting turn yesterday a fair bit.

Two spinners ? In England ? Once upon a time used to be common...not so much these days. Would be surprised if they can't get the other pitch up in time though.

Not that old one exactly got overworked Smile

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm

Gooseberry wrote:England aren't going to be looking at anyone outside the existing group for the time being. Suspect wood or archer will come into the side.

I wasn't thinking for the next test or even this winters tours. More for over the course of the next 18 months as England gear up for an Ashes down under.

I can't see them looking outside this group for home Tests this summer. Why would they when the seamers have bowled so well!

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 1:53 pm

If they are playing curran and woakes then bess' batting really shouldn't be a significant consideration, whether he's going to actually get to bowl or do anything when he gets the chance would be a much bigger one. I do note that the talk of leach has come more from the pundits than the England camp though, hes barely been mentioned all summer. Its a huge frustration to have a player firstly through injury , then illness and now being a reserve barely play any competitive cricket for two years.
I do think it would be more likely that England took the extra seamer option than pick Leach. But that talk of using the worn pitch does make a spinner more valuable to England even if Pakistan made light work of Bess on a very spin friendly wicket at old trafford.
I assume the mention of two spinners was aimed more at Pakistan. I dont think they will go down that road, they just dropped the all rounder to strengthen the batting and still struggled to make a good score. I did joke about dropping Fawad Alam and as hilarious as it would be they'd have to be pretty certain of batting first. The two tests this summer where a side has picked two spinners they lost.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 5:08 pm

If they went with a 3 seamers and 2 spinners then presumably Curran would be the first choice to be left out. Which does then leave a long tail. If there's good weather I wouldn't put money a draw between this sides though so England need to go on the attack with their bowling.

The 2nd Test being washed out took away Pakistan's chances of winning the series but it did also give their two quicks some time with their feet up. With their attack rested and the potential of a turning wicket it should be a very good final Test.

England's big strength over the Pakistan and Windies squads is depth in their seamers. The washout does mitigate that to some extent though, Stokes missing is a big loss and a turning wicket against Yasir would add another layer. A good challenge for England in home conditions awaits I reckon.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 18 Aug 2020, 9:57 pm

T20 squad has been announced for the Pakistan games.

England T20I squad: Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Jonathan Bairstow, Tom Banton, Sam Billings, Tom Curran, Joe Denly, Lewis Gregory, Chris Jordan, Saqib Mahmood, Dawid Malan, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, David Willey

Reserves: Pat Brown, Liam Livingstone, Reece Topley

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 19 Aug 2020, 12:06 pm

Being reported that play in the third test will commence half an hour early at 10:30 am if play has been lost during the previous day.

A sensible and welcome move albeit long overdue.

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Post by alfie on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 6:09 am

guildfordbat wrote:Being reported that play in the third test will commence half an hour early at 10:30 am if play has been lost during the previous day.

A sensible and welcome move albeit long overdue.

Blimey ! Lateral thinking from cricket authorities Shocked

Whatever next ? Boris & co reconsidering Brexit timing in the light of the coronavirus situation perhaps ? Nah, that would be just too much Smile

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 7:58 am

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Being reported that play in the third test will commence half an hour early at 10:30 am if play has been lost during the previous day.

A sensible and welcome move albeit long overdue.

Blimey !    Lateral thinking from cricket authorities Shocked

Whatever next ?  Boris & co reconsidering Brexit timing in the light of the coronavirus situation perhaps ? Nah, that would be just too much  Smile


The ICC has allowed it for a long time, its pretty much only tests in england where they choose not to do it. The frustration being that its the one place its most commonly needed, albeit not so much in recent years where draws have been pretty uncommon. The extra 4 hours it couldve given in the last wouldnt have been enough to get a result.
I believe the argument here has been that conditions can be almost unplayable in the morning on a humid day, and the earlier the worse it gets. Also the effects it has on spectators getting to grounds, but thats not really an issue this summer. Englands leadership have said they don't have a problem with it being used for the thrid test though, the barrier now appears to be with braodcasters and rearranging schedules but not seen as insurmountable. I guess they'd recognise the value the extra play and potential for results ballances that out. Its not like there's much other sport to broadcast at 1030 on Monday morning.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 9:31 am

Not sure we would have got much extra play in the last test as did we even start at 11 on any day?

Here we tend to add the extra time available to the end of the day as we do not see sunset quite so fast as many other cricketing countries. Early starts do tend to cause issues with dew. Also if they decide to add 30 minutes on at the start, does this mean it cannot be added at the end?

the going off for bad light is for me a much bigger issue.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:11 am

Also includes the decision to start at half ten if the weather looks good; so there’s extra time even without rain the day before, if I’m reading correctly?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 11:18 am

Its the same basis as adding time on at the end of the day, you have the option to start early if there's overs to make up from previous days not just a blanket 1030 start.

Theres understandle reluctance to just lengthen the days indefinitely, there has to be some kind of garaunteed break for the players. As it is a batsman could be sat padded up not knowing if or when they'd have to go out for 8 hours straight, and bowling having to try and stay loose and not being able to completely switch off. Theres also limits on what the broacasters are willing to pad out time for in schedules.

A window of 1030 till 730 is pretty big. Over rates while there is play would be the next port of call to inprove the chances of results, and that includes cracking down on batsmen time wasting.

At least in England we tend to get sporting pitches and not absolute roads and balls that only swing when brand new. Despite the weather we tend to get as many results here as anywhere.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 6:09 pm

Rumours on the XI is that Woakes is gonna need a fitness test in the morning on his knee

Root says it’s likely one of Archer or Wood comes in (can’t say I’m too surprised, Curran didn’t bowl great in perfect conditions, would weaken the batting mind).

Some rumours Bess might be left out, but can’t see them going in with five seamers personally...

Pakistan have to decide between Alam and Shadab. Otherwise all should be the same
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 6:59 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Some rumours Bess might be left out, but can’t see them going in with five seamers personally...


I get the impression that Silverwood wants to give Bess the run but Root is overly fussed by him. Hes generally been increasingly used as a last resort as the summers progressed. Theres two tests he wasnt bowled at all. In SA he was bowling 50-60 in a match, now 20. Average of 46 at 3.4 an over really isn't contributing a great deal despite a couple of pitches that have turned a lot. His batting at 9 reallys houldnt come into the equation, especially as Wood/Archer arent quite in the Pakistan tail mould.
If they do use the same pitch again the not having a spinner could look very foolish, but then the turning pitch in the first test of this series was won without a significant contribution from Bess and the opposition had two.
I do agree though that its more likely than not he will play, but picking a quick to bowl quickly instead would be more aggressive and help to avoid those periods with the old ball and tail where England have let the game drift. Of course you can still have the quick and Bess, just means risking a heavier load on the 4 seamers or bowling Bess just to rest them. The argument for him would be stronger if the seamers were struggling to contain the opposition and the spinner could hold up an end as has often been required on flat pitches with the kookabura, but at home the seamers are being more economical than Bess. Pakistan look very comfortable playing Bess. Its not like they are packed with left handers for him to bowl at, and Englands right arm seamers haven't had much trouble cleaning them up anyway.
Missing Woakes will be a blow, and likely ensure Bess does play ... unless they really go in all with both quicks.

Anyway I rest my case and am now putting a fiver on Bess to be MOTM Whistle

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 7:46 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Rumours on the XI is that Woakes is gonna need a fitness test in the morning on his knee

Root says it’s likely one of Archer or Wood comes in (can’t say I’m too surprised, Curran didn’t bowl great in perfect conditions, would weaken the batting mind).

Some rumours Bess might be left out, but can’t see them going in with five seamers personally...

Pakistan have to decide between Alam and Shadab. Otherwise all should be the same

Cheers for that, Olly.

Like you, I'm no fan of going with five seamers.

Any news on whether the track for this Test is the same as last time?


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Post by Duty281 on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 9:27 pm

Fresh wicket used for this test, according to Cricinfo. Cricinfo also seem to be leaning in favour of Curran getting the nod over Bess, with Jofra coming back into the XI.

Weather unfortunately looks pretty dodgy again, with rain forecast for the final two days of the test, but let's remain hopeful.

If Pakistan win, they'll be on a good run of five consecutive test series unbeaten against England, with three of those five being played in England. Not bad.

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Post by GSC on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 9:50 pm

Hard to keep picking Bess if he's only bowled 32 overs in the last 2.5 tests.
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Post by JDizzle on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:03 pm

As Olly says, do you really need 5 seamers in that case though? May as well pick an extra batsman (Bracey the only one left in the bubble?) rather than the five man Anderson/Broad/Woakes/Archer/Curran attack.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:36 pm

JDizzle wrote:As Olly says, do you really need 5 seamers in that case though? May as well pick an extra batsman (Bracey the only one left in the bubble?) rather than the five man Anderson/Broad/Woakes/Archer/Curran attack.

To be fair, I’d probably rather Curran at 8, than Bracey at say 7 in terms of batting anyways
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:41 pm

Get Samit Patel in the bubble I say.

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Post by GSC on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:48 pm

This Rikki Clarke fella looks like the best like for like swap for Stokes to me
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 20 Aug 2020, 10:53 pm

GSC wrote:This Rikki Clarke fella looks like the best like for like swap for Stokes to me

Aye. Matt Coles and Zak Chappell aren't quite there yet. Give it a year or two.

A shame that Will Gidman retired.

Chris Schofield...

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 7:24 am

5 seamers does seem excessive, but with 4 they still ended up bowling Broad into his 28th over in a low scoring innings in the last test. 5 means they can keep shuffling and always have a fresh bowler to come in who is a wicket taking threat.
If Root doesnt trust and wont use Bess theres no point in him being in the team. If he doesnt get picked I hope that means Leach will at least be released and able to play some cricket, its hugely frustrating that Englands best wicket taking spinner has barely played cricket at all since Sri Lanka. Meanwhile Silverwoods talking up a possible return to tests for Rashid, presumably with an eye to the winter, who has played almost no red ball cricket for an even longer period. Moeen too has been sat in the white ball squad and hasnt played red ball for nearly a year. Even Bess whos at least played a few tests hasnt actually had that many red ball games in the past 18 months. England could go to Asia with 4 spinners who have at best played a handfull of red ball games between them in the preceding two years. Not ideal, but I guess much of the opposition will be in a similar position with domestic seasons having been disrupted and cancelled. Theres of course every chance that tour wont happen given the latest warnings about a the winter flu season.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 8:15 am

No real reason to pick five seamers except you can't make up your mind. If four of them can't do the job the fifth is unlikely to help much...and if they are effective one of them will be seriously underused.
Yes Bess has been sparsely used (wrongly , in my opinion , in the first match of the summer) ; but when one match featured only one innings , and in another (also shortened) the opposition caved quickly
to the pace men it was more a case of "not needed " than disregarded. A spinner is sometimes a bit like a lifebelt or a fire extinguisher : just sits on the wall most of the time ; but when you need it - rather comes in handy Smile

I know goose would probably favour picking KP_fan over Bess ; but Warne seems to rate him so I reckon he might be worth persevering with for this game.

If Woakes is unfit it is an easy way in for Archer or Wood. Will weaken the batting but not much you can do about that. Question then is which one ? Wood hasn't been seen since the first match of the summer so should be well rested ; and brings more serious pace. But his record in England is fairly ordinary ; and Archer had excellent figures last year (though he has been largely peripheral this summer). Net form ? I will leave it to Root and Silverwood.

I guess Robinson is just there to soak up the atmosphere.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 8:33 am

Just for a change looks like wind might be the issue today. A near hurricane currently battering the South coast for much of the day, more due on Saturday too. Sunday looks to be the best weather with patchy rain Monday and Tuesday.

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:11 am

king_carlos wrote:
GSC wrote:This Rikki Clarke fella looks like the best like for like swap for Stokes to me

Aye. Matt Coles and Zak Chappell aren't quite there yet. Give it a year or two.

A shame that Will Gidman retired.

Chris Schofield...

The Worcestershire Woakes, Ed Barnard is the man.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:26 am

JDizzle wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
GSC wrote:This Rikki Clarke fella looks like the best like for like swap for Stokes to me

Aye. Matt Coles and Zak Chappell aren't quite there yet. Give it a year or two.

A shame that Will Gidman retired.

Chris Schofield...

The Worcestershire Woakes, Ed Barnard is the man.

You're forgetting Joe Leach!

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:27 am

The BBC team seem pretty certain that Woakes is fit and Archer will return.

That likely leaves a choice between Curran and Bess for the final spot.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:28 am

I'd rather be picking Bracey and batting him at five than have five seamers.

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:43 am

This test is a big chance for Archer. I really do hope that Root bowls him to his strengths and not use him as a battering ram. Hard on Curran but i think Archer is the better call.
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Post by GSC on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 10:54 am

England win the toss and bat, just Archer for Curran so Woakes is fit
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Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:04 am

Well the ball is moving out there...
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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:06 am

I don't want Archer to be used as a battering ram. But if he is to offer something different from the other seamers then he does need to "bend his back" and bowl at 90 +
Otherwise he is just another right arm fast bowler , bowling 85-88.

Not that there is anything wrong with that , if he does it well ! But when you already have three capable of similar speeds , who operate in slightly different ways ; you want a real alternative. They've ditched the left arm variation ; so pace (and bounce , of course) is what Archer must bring to this game.

To be honest , I'm not sure he wasn't a little less than 100% fit last match , so expect he will be a bit livelier this time.

England batting for a change. Here's hoping for a decent start ...

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:15 am

Well alfie looks like Bess will get that MOTM ...if Root lets him bowl at all Whistle Bet hes glad they aren't bowling today though, wont be fun for the spinners trying to keep accuracy in a hurricane. Could be an issue for Pakistan who have to use Shah.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:16 am

I'm hoping we get a decent bit of Fawad Alam batting.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:23 am

Gooseberry wrote:Well alfie looks like Bess will get that MOTM ...if Root lets him bowl at all Whistle Bet hes glad they aren't bowling today though, wont be fun for the spinners trying to keep accuracy in a hurricane. Could be an issue for Pakistan who have to use Shah.

Might be a good toss to have won , if the forecast is accurate. Long as they can make use of it for a decent first innings. Looks like a fairly good pitch to bat on And more rest for the fast bowlers - Bess of course is well rested Smile ...

Think that's one down though...Burns gone.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:32 am

Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:36 am

Duty281 wrote:Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

Who are you bringing in to replace him?

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:36 am

I really think that England should stick with Burns myself. He has had a rough few tests but the quality is definitely there.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:39 am

Duty281 wrote:Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

Huh?

He averaged 46 in the West Indies series. Scored a ton and a fifty in New Zealand after a good Ashes last summer, and then had the unfortunate injury in SA after a good first test there.

Had a poor series against Pakistan here sure...but no wonder we've been through a thousand openers since Strauss if we dump them after one poor series (in tough conditions too).
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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:50 am

Bit early to be writing Burns off I'd say...

I am still not certain he will have a long Test career ; but I think he has enough credit in the bank at present that he can have a couple of poor games without being ditched out of hand.

Crawley has started well today - but he doesn't half like a very tight leave on off stump ! Going to look silly if one of those comes back a fraction more ...


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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 11:50 am

Yasir on early.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:03 pm

alfie wrote:Yasir on early.

Good to see them being proactive against him early - Crawley putting away the bad ball there. He'll give you a few, and it isn't turning much at the moment either, hopefully can continue to take him for a few and give Azhar some problems.
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

Who are you bringing in to replace him?

Crawley can open, unless a better opener can be found from the FC game. England can then find a different batsman from the county arena to go in at either 3 or 4, Sam Hain who averaged over 50 last season might be worth considering.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:15 pm

Writing Burns of is utterly silly. Hardly anyone has a good avergae opening in England, even Cook struggled here. All the tests hes played have been against strong new ball attacks.
England have spent a decade trying to find a functional opening partnership and currently have a rookie in the other spot and a number 3 who's barely finding his way in first class cricket.
If there's pressure on Burns it needs to be coming from the outside, its not like county cricket is overflowing with players demanding to be picked like Sibley did ...and the knives have even been out for him!
The reserve opener keaton jennings. Think about that.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

Who are you bringing in to replace him?

Crawley can open, unless a better opener can be found from the FC game. England can then find a different batsman from the county arena to go in at either 3 or 4, Sam Hain who averaged over 50 last season might be worth considering.

Sam Hain Laugh

Superb limited overs batsmen but he is not an option for the test team. Do you always make snap decisions based on one series?

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:27 pm

Daft review from Sibley. Plumb as you like.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:28 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Tick-tock, Burns. Time's running out.

Who are you bringing in to replace him?

Crawley can open, unless a better opener can be found from the FC game. England can then find a different batsman from the county arena to go in at either 3 or 4, Sam Hain who averaged over 50 last season might be worth considering.

Sam Hain Laugh

Superb limited overs batsmen but he is not an option for the test team. Do you always make snap decisions based on one series?

No, I've held the view that Burns isn't test class for over a year now. This isn't a 'snap decision'.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:29 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Yasir on early.

Good to see them being proactive against him early - Crawley putting away the bad ball there. He'll give you a few, and it isn't turning much at the moment either, hopefully can continue to take him for a few and give Azhar some problems.

Was about to say I liked the fact that Sibley had been a lot busier against Yasir today , and was doing a pretty good job of rotating the strike and keeping the runs ticking over...

...and then Yasir does him , with the aid of a bold but correct lbw call by umpire Gough .  He came well down but it hit him low so out he goes...

Pakistan needed that wicket.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:Daft review from Sibley. Plumb as you like.

Although in a pre DRS age, the likes of Dickie Bird wouldn't have given it out. Sibley and his long legs were a fair way down the track.

For all the comms' talk of England's positive scoring rate, we've lost 2 wickets in under 90 minutes on the first morning after winning the toss and batting. If Pakistan can get a third before lunch, the session will be theirs.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 12:38 pm

To say Burns "isn't Test class " is a bit OTT , I think.

Even guildford , who might be expected to support a Surrey boy , says that he has doubts about Burns at the top level. As do I ... Despite several good knocks , an average in the low thirties is nothing to write home about ; but it is better than a lot of players who have been tried recently for England , and as good as many who have occupied the spot in the past , for many teams.

If he's to be a long term player he will need to build on that ; but he's surely entitled to a proper run in the side based on what he's done so far. Not as if there are a host knocking the door down either...

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