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Edinburgh v Glasgow 22/08/20 - bring the hand gel, there's going to be a lot of contact

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 11 Aug 2020, 9:30 am

First topic message reminder :

So the first plague games are to be played in less than two weeks, provided Scotland isn't overrun with the 'rona in that time.

Teams:
Edinburgh
Edinburgh v Glasgow 22/08/20 - bring the hand gel, there's going to be a lot of contact - Page 4 Onesuit%20shield
TBC
Glasgow
Edinburgh v Glasgow 22/08/20 - bring the hand gel, there's going to be a lot of contact - Page 4 Hc74efd10d50b448ebe8e13999fa50ad80
TBC

Edinburgh are playing for a home semi.

Glasgow are playing for a slim chance.

Who would you like to see? Who should be starting on form (from 6 months ago...)? What changes do you think we'll see from DW? With Lance gone will we see Chamberlain on the bench? Will any more of the young new talent feature?

It's been a while since we've been able to discuss an actual game so am definitely relishing this.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 9:10 am

I don't think Hastings was class, however I think his individual performance was good. Which behind a struggling back row is very difficult to achieve. VdW was absolutely solid but behind a back row who minced Glasgow at the breakdown. I think had the FHs been the other way around we may well have seen a much higher score or bonus point.

Although it could of course just be down to Hodges insightful "if you run at the opposite players, statistically you'll score at some point" coaching technique.

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Post by RDW on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 11:06 am

There seemed to be a lot more niggle yesterday than normal yesterday, and McInally certainly lost his cool a few times which is unlike him.

Let's of pent up frustration after 5 months obviously!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 11:12 am

RDW wrote:There seemed to be a lot more niggle yesterday than normal yesterday, and McInally certainly lost his cool a few times which is unlike him.

Let's of pent up frustration after 5 months obviously!

Didn't help that Wilson was being a first class c*ck
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Post by RDW on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 12:10 pm

Cockers suggesting he'll mix things up next game since we've already got a home semi final. I'd rather we put our best team out again - we need to be battle ready, and we've got good depth to cover most positions should someone get injured.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 1:07 pm

RDW wrote:Cockers suggesting he'll mix things up next game since we've already got a home semi final. I'd rather we put our best team out again - we need to be battle ready, and we've got good depth to cover most positions should someone get injured.

Problem is they are going to need a full strength team for semis, then hopefully the final as well as straight into the euro knock outs as well, he is going to have to rotate a bit. A lot of players are struggling to do a full 80 mins as well at this stage of the season and will end up getting injured if pushed to hard at this stage.

Edinburgh have got the squad depth to do a bit of rotation and make good use of the bench. How things have changed from a few years ago!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 2:25 pm

I don't mind a bit of pack rotation, but I'd want the backs to stay as they were, particularly Groom and VDW.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 4:35 pm

I’m not a 10 by any stretch jimbo but I think his blind alley running was simply a way of trying to retain possession and reset the play.

He was moaned at for doing too much kicking so if he’s been told to cut down on the kicks and there isn’t a pass on, the run is all he has left.

I think he did well with the keek ball that was provided to him. What he could really have done with was for Horne not to stand has flat, take a yard back to give a deeper option for another kick or a pass out wide.

The Edinburgh centres and backrow nullified Glasgow’s midfield. So much so that tam didn’t get a touch of the ball.
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Post by jimbopip on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 5:05 pm

tigertattie wrote:I’m not a 10 by any stretch jimbo but I think his blind alley running was simply a way of trying to retain possession and reset the play. Yes, but if the 10 runs up a blind alley to reset the ball then who is there for the 9 to pass to when it has been reset? haircut should have been handing the ball to an ugly, fat lump and saying "Here, run into someone would you?" Until the defence was stretched.

He was moaned at for doing too much kicking so if he’s been told to cut down on the kicks and there isn’t a pass on, the run is all he has left. This is where Dunbar, Johnson and McDowall offer a different option: they would crash and present, which is not really Furra's forte.

I think he did well with the keek ball that was provided to him. What he could really have done with was for Horne not to stand has flat, take a yard back to give a deeper option for another kick or a pass out wide. That's two consecutive games at the Library where we have squandered a winning position: is it that once ahead our decision makers think it's too easy? That is a serious question.

The Edinburgh centres and backrow nullified Glasgow’s midfield. So much so that tam didn’t get a touch of the ball. So the devcision makers (9, 10, captain) should havebeen thinking on their feet.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 23 Aug 2020, 6:21 pm

Glasgow need a few hard nosed forwards. I’m not talking walking liability bampot things like Wilson, I’m talking not give an inch types like brown.

Especially in the backrow. Fagerson could still be one for the future but he’s just, well, not josh Strauss.

The breakdown was the single biggest difference yesterday.
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Post by RDW on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 5:27 am

I'm not saying flog the same 15 every game, I just think we've got to get players fully up to speed before the SF. This is a unique environment in that we're into knockouts but not at the end of a long hard season - the players are fresh but undercooked. i.e. Sutherland only played 40 minutes at the weekend - if he sits out the next game he's hardly going to be battle ready. There's no point looking past the SF if we lose it.

For me Cockers should look at what his 15 for the Ulster game will be and make sure all of them have at least 80 minutes across the two fixtures. The subs would ideally have had the same but that's less important.

That means if Toolis, Bradbury and Ritchie are fit they should be involved. As should Darcy Graham.

He could pick something like:

1 Schoeman
2 Mcinally (needs another blowout after looking off the pace)
3 Berghan
4 Toolis
5 Gllchrist (subbed off on 45-50 minutes)
6 Bradbury (or Haining if Bradbury isn't going to be fit)
7 Ritchie
8 Mata (subbed off for Watson on 45-50 minutes)

9 Groom
10 VDW (subbed off early just in case!)
11 VDM (it's not like he had a strenuous workout)
12 Dean
13 Bennett
14 Graham
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Sutherland,  Willemse, Nel, Davidson/Hodgson/Charmichael, Watson, Shiel, Chamberlain, Taylor

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Post by bsando on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 2:06 pm

Cockers could even start Chamberlain for the next fixture, VDW looked sharp and up to speed so worth saving him on the bench incase of a total meltdown. I'd also like to see a pack that can get as much game time as possible pre Ulster semi. They're the ones Edinburgh need to be at their best really going off the win over Glasgow. I think Watson threw a few speculative passes from rucks and Toolis, Ritchie and Bradbury should start like you say RDW. I'd like to see George Taylor and Johnstone involved in the backs and Darcy to start.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 3:06 pm

I had a good look at Sutherland in this game, guy is a unit. Good player, and great for Edinburgh to have front-row depth.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 3:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I had a good look at Sutherland in this game, guy is a unit. Good player, and great for Edinburgh to have front-row depth.

Was toted as a future star a few years ago but a horrendous injury put the brakes on. It was the kind of injury that was nearly life altering let alone rugby career altering!

He's done a great job coming back into things and if he goes the way he has been, he could be a shout for a Lions place yet.
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Post by EST on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 4:58 pm

Managed to watch the game today, very little difference in the first half - but as has been noted, Edinburgh's front-row reserves and the back-row battle was the deciding factor.

On the first point, its not all doom and gloom - Pierreto and Seiuli would have made a massive difference there if available. It's a different story in the backrow, with no players coming in it's hard to see how this area isn't going to cost Glasgow.

Harley looks like what he is now, a lock playing 6; Wilson offered nothing, aside from his normal handbags; Fagerson jnr looked out of place at 7 and Gordon offered little. Vakaloloma, Ashe, Flockhart and Fusaro were the players not involved - no obvious knight in shining armour from that lot. One solution is to play Naks at 6 or 8, but even still the pool to chose from just isn't all that good anymore.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 5:02 pm

It's hard to argue with that summation EST.
Crying or Very sad

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Post by EST on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 5:09 pm

jimbopip wrote:It's hard to argue with that summation EST.
Crying or Very sad

It's all the more annoying given that there are so few (any?) BR players in the academy and it's been obvious we need to strengthen for a while - although I take the point that Covid may have put paid to that.

Here's hoping that Flockhart can make the step up and that Big Jale gets fit - i'd love to see him next week. Afraid i'm not holding out much hope for Ashe and Fusaro hasn't been good enough to start for us in years.


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Post by BigGee on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 6:11 pm

EST wrote:
jimbopip wrote:It's hard to argue with that summation EST.
Crying or Very sad

It's all the more annoying given that there are so few (any?) BR players in the academy and it's been obvious we need to strengthen for a while - although I take the point that Covid may have put paid to that.

Here's hoping that Flockhart can make the step up and that Big Jale gets fit - i'd love to see him next week.  Afraid i'm not holding out much hope for Ashe and Fusaro hasn't been good enough to start for us in years.  


DW has already said that he has signed Naks to play in the back row, likley at No.8. We are actually pretty well stocked in the second row and we should not need him there if the others stay fit.

I am not holding out much hope for Fusaro or Ashe either unfortunately. Flockhart gives more hope, but he needs to stay fit, something he has struggled to do so far.

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Post by Eejit on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 6:40 pm

As expected only Edinburgh season ticket holders will have the chance to attend next week. Understandable decision given what’s been happening but certainly doesn’t do anything to counter the suggestion that the SRU are only focused on Edinburgh at the moment given it was their decision in the first place to host all games at Murrayfield.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 6:43 pm

tigertattie wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I had a good look at Sutherland in this game, guy is a unit. Good player, and great for Edinburgh to have front-row depth.

Was toted as a future star a few years ago but a horrendous injury put the brakes on. It was the kind of injury that was nearly life altering let alone rugby career altering!

He's done a great job coming back into things and if he goes the way he has been, he could be a shout for a Lions place yet.

Yeah he could be a good shout for the Lions, I really haven’t watched him enough yet. Pretty good going if he came back from a career-changing injury. Lydiate did that and he came back stronger. Whilst he might not be as good now he did achieve many great honours.

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Post by RDW on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 11:16 pm

Eejit wrote:As expected only Edinburgh season ticket holders will have the chance to attend next week. Understandable decision given what’s been happening but certainly doesn’t do anything to counter the suggestion that the SRU are only focused on Edinburgh at the moment given it was their decision in the first place to host all games at Murrayfield.

To be fair that was completely down to the current situation and the hoops needing to be jumped through to play these games - it makes complete sense for the SRU to get Murrayfield set up as the base for both teams right now. In Australia a lot of the sporting teams are playing in a Queensland 'bubble' - the Melbourne teams haven't played at home all season.

The SRU are aiming to be the first pro sport in the UK that has a crowd which will be a huge achivement, but also one that requires a huge amount of planning and investment to make it happen.

I've seen on social media lots of people complaining about not being able to get tickets, and asking why only 700 people are allowed in when it's a 67,000 seater stadium. picard

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 24 Aug 2020, 11:53 pm

Common sense is is something sorely missing from the tin foil hat section of the warriors supporters.

Even though the numbers are showing that the SRU are not favouring Edinburgh, the theorists are out in force

The reason Edinburgh season ticket holders only are able to apply for tickets isn’t the SRU looking after their chums, it’s because the government and society don’t want fans travelling from one city to another for what is a test situation. And the season ticket holders already have their details with the SRU so can be passed over to whoever needs this in the event there’s some tracing needing done.

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Post by EST on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 8:58 am

BigGee wrote:
EST wrote:
jimbopip wrote:It's hard to argue with that summation EST.
Crying or Very sad

It's all the more annoying given that there are so few (any?) BR players in the academy and it's been obvious we need to strengthen for a while - although I take the point that Covid may have put paid to that.

Here's hoping that Flockhart can make the step up and that Big Jale gets fit - i'd love to see him next week.  Afraid i'm not holding out much hope for Ashe and Fusaro hasn't been good enough to start for us in years.  


DW has already said that he has signed Naks to play in the back row, likley at No.8. We are actually pretty well stocked in the second row and we should not need him there if the others stay fit.

I am not holding out much hope for Fusaro or Ashe either unfortunately. Flockhart gives more hope, but he needs to stay fit, something he has struggled to do so far.

I hadn't realised DW had confirmed that - it will certainly make a difference if you replace Harley with Naks, but i'm wary of being overly reliant on one player - the overall quality is the issue.

Flockhart is an odd one, he's 23 now and should really have played more than he has - I do get he has been repeatedly injured, but this season has to be a bit of a statement from him or he will be left behind.

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 9:23 am

So if Uncle Naknaks is primarily a 6 where does that leave the Jale?
6.Naknaks
7. Mullet
8. Fagerson

6. Jale
7. Batman
8. Flockhart/Ashe

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Post by EST on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 9:32 am

Think that's about right Jimbo - best team includes Fagerson Jnr and Naks, so 8 & 6 respectively.

Big Jale as a reserve 6, hopefully get to see him this weekend - he wasn't down as injured on the team list last week.
Fingers Crossed

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Post by BigGee on Tue 25 Aug 2020, 10:43 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/edinburgh-v-glasgow-cockerill-changes/?v=79cba1185463


Looks like we will see a pretty different team out for Edinburgh this friday.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 9:07 am

jimbopip wrote:So if Uncle Naknaks is primarily a 6 where does that leave the Jale?
6.Naknaks
7. Mullet
8. Fagerson

6. Jale
7. Batman
8. Flockhart/Ashe

Fusaro is still about isn't he? It is almost like we needed another OS....

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Post by bsando on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 9:54 am

Fagerson was not very good at 7 in my opinion, gave away a few penalties off feet when trying to jackal ball. I’d have Gordon or Fusaro at 7 ideally.

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Post by bsando on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 10:04 am

Very interesting comments from him regarding SA. Imagine SA in a 7 Nations!? That would be pretty amazing. Away trips to Cape Town for the 7 Nations would be very popular, especially when it’s Baltic in the NH in Feb/March.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 10:21 am

Aye it would be something to behold. Though we would kiss our chances of a title goodbye for the next few years at least!
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Post by jimbopip on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 10:59 am

As far as I can tell from the website Fozzie and the Mullet are Glasgow's only out and out 7's. You're then looking at Batman or Middle Fagerson to "do a job". Clearly, Glasgow lost the breakdown on Saturday so perhaps we should start calling him Matt Fagerson8. Age has taken some of Batman's pace and he's too tall to be snaffling on the floor anyway.
Perhaps if we had held on to Matt Smith? Or Alex Dunbar?

I get the feeling 7 may become a bit of a problem for us. perhaps if Dolokoto and Stewart make a claim for the second hooker spot Turner may be seen at flanker.

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Post by EST on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:10 am

jimbopip wrote:As far as I can tell from the website Fozzie and the Mullet are Glasgow's only out and out 7's. You're then looking at Batman or Middle Fagerson to "do a job". Clearly, Glasgow lost the breakdown on Saturday so perhaps we should start calling him Matt Fagerson8. Age has taken some of Batman's pace and he's too tall to be snaffling on the floor anyway.
Perhaps if we had held on to Matt Smith? Or Alex Dunbar?

I get the feeling 7 may become a bit of a problem for us. perhaps if Dolokoto and Stewart make a claim for the second hooker spot Turner may be seen at flanker.

Rory Darge or Connor Boyle would have racked up plenty of minutes at Glasgow this season...

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:19 am

In other news Sam HC looked good for Exeter yesterday and scored a nice try against bristol. I think he could be quite important in the Scotland squad over the next year and offers depth with experience and good game management. I think Horne starting and HC on the bench would be a good squad!
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Post by bsando on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:24 am

Yeah that is a good start to his Exeter career for him. He has been in a similar place to Christie in NZ who was moving clubs a lot but is now very settled and playing well at Blues. So fingers crossed SHC can settle in at Exeter and become a solid replacement for Nick White. scrum half depth could be at an all time high in a year or two if everything works out.

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Post by EST on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 11:47 am

I was very impressed with SHC last night - looked composed and dangerous throughout. He has really landed on his feet at Exeter - high potential to come away from this year as a premiership winner after his nomadic lifestyle around various corners of rugby playing Europe.

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Post by bsando on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 12:24 pm

Yeah I'm sure plenty of pro players would be pretty envious!

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/if-you-asked-cockers-what-the-craic-was-with-something-hed-tell-you-to-your-face-ill-never-lay-any-blame-at-his-door-darryl-marfo-edinburgh/

I just noticed this from May, an interview with Marfo on his rise and then leaving Edinburgh. Despite not getting the game time he praises Cockers approach and attitude as a coach. Hope he can still kick on at struggling Ospreys and maybe add to his 3 Scotland caps.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 2:46 pm

EST wrote:I was very impressed with SHC last night - looked composed and dangerous throughout. He has really landed on his feet at Exeter - high potential to come away from this year as a premiership winner after his nomadic lifestyle around various corners of rugby playing Europe.

To be honest I think he's better than Price and his roaming from club to club has been the only thing holding him back. It's a shame it didn't work out at Edinburgh or we may have seen a lot more caps.
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Post by EST on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 3:29 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
EST wrote:I was very impressed with SHC last night - looked composed and dangerous throughout.  He has really landed on his feet at Exeter - high potential to come away from this year as a premiership winner after his nomadic lifestyle around various corners of rugby playing Europe.

To be honest I think he's better than Price and his roaming from club to club has been the only thing holding him back. It's a shame it didn't work out at Edinburgh or we may have seen a lot more caps.

He's definitely talented enough to challenge Price, if he manages to get some regular game time at Exeter he will be in contention.

Although it took a while, maybe the move away from Scotland has probably worked out for the best. He would be the best 9 at Edinburgh just now, but at least he is putting his talent to good use now.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 26 Aug 2020, 6:31 pm

EST wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
EST wrote:I was very impressed with SHC last night - looked composed and dangerous throughout.  He has really landed on his feet at Exeter - high potential to come away from this year as a premiership winner after his nomadic lifestyle around various corners of rugby playing Europe.

To be honest I think he's better than Price and his roaming from club to club has been the only thing holding him back. It's a shame it didn't work out at Edinburgh or we may have seen a lot more caps.

He's definitely talented enough to challenge Price, if he manages to get some regular game time at Exeter he will be in contention.

Although it took a while, maybe the move away from Scotland has probably worked out for the best.  He would be the best 9 at Edinburgh just now, but at least he is putting his talent to good use now.

Jury still out on SHC I am afraid.

He was always talented but never consistent, not attributes that would have endeared him to Cockers. Hopefully the school of hard knocks he has gone through since leaving home will have knocked him into shape, still young enough to come good for Scotland.

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Post by EST on Thu 27 Aug 2020, 12:57 pm

BigGee wrote:
EST wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
EST wrote:I was very impressed with SHC last night - looked composed and dangerous throughout.  He has really landed on his feet at Exeter - high potential to come away from this year as a premiership winner after his nomadic lifestyle around various corners of rugby playing Europe.

To be honest I think he's better than Price and his roaming from club to club has been the only thing holding him back. It's a shame it didn't work out at Edinburgh or we may have seen a lot more caps.

He's definitely talented enough to challenge Price, if he manages to get some regular game time at Exeter he will be in contention.

Although it took a while, maybe the move away from Scotland has probably worked out for the best.  He would be the best 9 at Edinburgh just now, but at least he is putting his talent to good use now.

Jury still out on SHC I am afraid.

He was always talented but never consistent, not attributes that would have endeared him to Cockers. Hopefully the school of hard knocks he has gone through since leaving home will have knocked him into shape, still young enough to come good for Scotland.

Yeah I agree BigGee, he has all the tools but needs to get regular game time and show it across a good chunk of games. If he does that then he is definitely good enough to challenge for a starting spot.

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Post by bsando on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 10:14 am

There’s some gonna be some hot competition for the starting 9 jersey over next few seasons. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it swap owners a few times.

Are weegie fans confident they can win this one? I think they should looking at the team sheets.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 2:27 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53937857

Jacko's take on where we are at the moment.

Probably fair comment.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 3:52 pm

"centre Ollie Smith"?!?! We're bemoaning the lack of fullback options and we have a centre at FB and an excellent jr FB considered a centre, whilst one of the promising young wings is considered a fullback. picard we have resources but they aren't being used properly!
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Post by BigGee on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 4:02 pm

Give him a chance Nelly

If Ollie Smith is as good as we think he is, he will get a chance, probably a much better one than he might have gotten in normal circumstances.

The kids in the squad may well be the only ones pleased with the way this next season may work out!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 4:12 pm

BigGee wrote:Give him a chance Nelly

If Ollie Smith is as good as we think he is, he will get a chance, probably a much better one than he might have gotten in normal circumstances.

The kids in the squad may well be the only ones pleased with the way this next season may work out!

It's just frustrating, given we don't have a out and out fullback apart from Bryce, that one of the best U20s fullbacks of the last 6 nations is being considered at centre while one of our brightest Scottish centres is being shoved into FB while Grigg (hard worker though he is, Huw Jones he is not) plays at centre. Meanwhile McLean who played on the wing for the 6 nations and looked great there is our fullback understudy. That's even before we get on to the back row!

I'm not slating DW's coaching per se but it seems to be a very strange approach! It's already suboptimal having Horne covering FH let alone getting everyone else to play new positions.
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Post by BigGee on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 4:24 pm

There is a lot going to be sub optional about this season unfortunately.

I can kind of see why he is pkaying his test pkayets at the moment though, probably Toonie wants them to get some game time as well.

I'd be amazed if Jines is not in the Scotland squad and the others can then audition for the FB role.

The youngsters may do better getting debuts agsinst other Pro 14 sides who might also be s bit wesker with their international players away.

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Post by bsando on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 6:15 pm

I think Jackson is right about character building and some of the players like Hastings and Horne stepping up to the plate to help the younger players get off to a good start. Hopefully Wilson can get a few signings in for next season and a few players who’ve been injured can get back playing.

Having Nakarawa, Cummings and Gray is fantastic though. Plus Kebble, Brown and Fagerson top off a formidable front 5. Better than Toonies last days at Glasgow. So it’s not panic stations yet for Glasgow. Wyne and Vakaloloma look like they have potential in the backrow to accompany the more established players.

Glasgow might well be better off playing a slightly less chaotic game plan which I think Wilson said he wants to do. It makes sense really. Plus when you have Naka who can create something from nothing you just need players who run good support lines which Glasgow have plenty of. Gray will really help with the set piece as well at lineout time.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 7:53 pm

Really harsh yellow card for Huw Jones, don’t agree with that

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Post by bsando on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 8:21 pm

I know Edinburgh will be better next week but jeez, awful stuff so far.

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Post by bsando on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 8:54 pm

Sheil has had a shocker

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Post by bsando on Fri 28 Aug 2020, 9:21 pm

Well glad they’re getting all the crap out now before next weekend. Worst Edinburgh performance I’ve watched for a while

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