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England: 8 Nations

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 20 Aug 2020, 8:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Not sure if theres already a thread kicking about but seeing as the prem is back I thought it may be nice to argue over the numerous players impressing.

As ever it seems to be scrum half, flankers, centre and full back are where there are chances for people to force their way in. Can't say I've ever been able to call what Eddie Jones thinks but Willis and hill must be tempting him to widen the player pool. A number of scrum halfs have started well also but has the time come for Spencer or Robson? Thought Maunder was very good too and Mitchell showed great flashes.

I'm at a bit of a loss for full back based on the games last week. Furbank looked anonymous and let's face it Daly is a Jones favourite.

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Post by bsando Fri 23 Oct 2020, 10:19 am

Maybe a few were peer pressured? Bit bananas in the current climate. Just hope they get some good replacements and a nice story can come out of this from their last minute inclusion.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 23 Oct 2020, 10:50 am

RDW wrote:Whatever your view on the effectiveness of bubbles and Covid in general, the bottom line is the players signed an agreement not to do this kind of thing, they did it anyway, and now a high profile game, commercial revenues and the reputation of the Barbarians has taken a big hit. If the game ends up cancelled because of this then that's a huge issue in rugby terms.

I agree it shouldn't turn into a personal which hunt of each of the players, but there's absolutely no justifying what they did.

And they were being paid a decent whack to do it too. A "which hunt" is not needed as the players involved are obvious as they have been dropped from the squad. A "witch hunt" is also probably not needed, but with many of these guys being Saracens there is a ready made group of haters.

Press and social media gave Phil Foden and Mason Greenwood a pretty hard time when they broke the rules to party with two Icelandic beauty queens (as a teenager I would probably have done the same), Wigglesworth and Robshaw (while being paid much less) are far more experienced and should have known better.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 23 Oct 2020, 11:56 am

Robshaw being involved does surprise me. The guy owns a cafe/restaurant/wine bar type thing I believe so should be acutely aware of the situation.

Wigglesworth also surprises me, having had the pleasure of meeting him he's seemed a switched on fellow. Maitland and Wray surprise me less to be honest!

There are some suggestions that it's basically the 11 Saracens players plus Robshaw who went out for a meal. The rumours of de Glanville being one of them don't square with that though so perhaps people are just putting together 11 Sarries players being in the squad and Robshaw being reported to get 12 players.

If England go with:

1.Vunipola 2.George 3.Sinckler 4.Itoje 5.Ewels 6.Curry 7.Underhill 8.Vunipola
9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Lawrence 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Furbank

16.Dunn 17.Genge 18.Stuart 19.Wilson 20.Earl 21.Heinz 22.Francis 23.Marchant

Then England could release the others as they did with Kerrod and de Glanville. Presuming for the sake of argument it is the Sarries players and Robshaw.

1.Chris Eves
2.Tevita Ika
3.Simon Kerrod
4.David Ribbans **
5.Alex Moon **
6.Rusiate Nasove
7.Will Boyde
8.Manueli Ratuniyarawa

9.Simione Kuruvoli
10.Max Malins **

11.Fergus McFadden
12.Max Llewellyn
13.Fraser Dingwall **
14.Serupepeli Vularika
15.Ioan Davies

16.
17.Haereiti Hetet
18.Samu Tawake
19.Ted Hill **
20.Alex Dombrandt **
21.Alex Mitchell **
22.
23.Ollie Thorley **

That's with the ** players being released from the England squad.

If Bristol, the regions, Edinburgh or Glasgow can loan out a hooker and fly-half there could be a game on. It would be a pretty weak Baabaas side though.

If they were to fill out the Baabaas squad by sending players over from the England bubble I'd probably prefer to see a weakened England side but bench players like Genge, Stuart, Earl etc starting for the Baabaas against the England incumbents.

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Post by RDW Fri 23 Oct 2020, 12:04 pm

I don't think it's going to be a very competitive Barbarians team. Was very much scraped together to start with never mind having to replace half the squad too!

There's a full set of Pro 14 fixtures this weekend so they'll not be getting any help from the Celts.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Oct 2020, 12:07 pm

its a good idea for the 'spare' players to be shared with the Barbarians, can't see Malins being released now though with Ford out.

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Post by RDW Fri 23 Oct 2020, 12:34 pm

BBC reporting that the England spares will play for the Barbarians due to complications on new players from prem clubs coming into the Barbarians bubble.

The 12 players could be facing an RFU hearing.

What a mess!

All for some pasta, because apparently a Mayfair hotel isn't good enough.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 23 Oct 2020, 2:06 pm

If the spares are going out to the Baabaas I really hope that some strength is given out to try to get a competitive game of it.

Even something like releasing Mitchell (Wigglesworth), Francis (Vunipola), Dingwall (Morris), Moon (Kpoku), Ribbans (Swinson) as they are all from Saints so there is still a spine of players who know each other. Harsh perhaps on someone like Mitchell or Moon/Ribbans who might have been on the bench but it's a non cap game. I'd argue that they'd have more chance to press their case by shining in a scratch side against England's first XV than coming off the bench and scoring a brace in a thrashing.

It sounds like all 4 of the Baabaas props are still available. Delighted that the 4 of them were bright enough to not get kicked out but in a weird way the England squad could have offered strong cover there with Obano and Heyes likely to be surplus.

If Manu Vunipola and Juan Pablo Socino have both been released for breaking the bubble then fly-half will be the biggest issue with the England squad having little cover anyway.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Oct 2020, 2:38 pm

Games off. I'm more upset with Robshaw now than when he turned down the chance for 3 points.

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Post by Mr Bounce Fri 23 Oct 2020, 2:42 pm

Gutted. I love a Baa-Baas game. Robshaw and co are prize Doughnuts. The RFU will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

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Post by tigertattie Fri 23 Oct 2020, 3:31 pm

Muppetry of the highest order.

No idea how much revenue this will cost the RFU but I can see the players getting a bit of bother with this!
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Post by lostinwales Fri 23 Oct 2020, 4:34 pm

Farcical

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Oct 2020, 5:40 pm

Ouch.

I think it's an overreaction given the guidelines they have to work under but it's probably the only thing they could do.

This time last year we were annoyed at a game being cancelled for a weather event that killed directly dozens of people. It puts things in perspective.

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Oct 2020, 5:53 pm

RDW wrote:Whatever your view on the effectiveness of bubbles and Covid in general, the bottom line is the players signed an agreement not to do this kind of thing, they did it anyway, and now a high profile game, commercial revenues and the reputation of the Barbarians has taken a big hit. If the game ends up cancelled because of this then that's a huge issue in rugby terms.

I agree it shouldn't turn into a personal which hunt of each of the players, but there's absolutely no justifying what they did.

I would say there is given what the virus actually is (it's not the world ending mass killer we all feared 6 months ago), how it is spred, how 'lockdown' as it has been in the UK has a very dubious efficacy at halting the spread of the virus, and how this half-in, half-out approach that many businesses including pro sport are operating under is not significntly less 'safe' due to going out for a meal. As mentioned, I understand it from the logistics perspective. My issue is you either have rugby or you don't. If you want to stop the infection running through rugby you simply don't have rugby. The infection has spread through clubs irrespective of bubbles being respected. We have a situation where Wasps are still playing despite having a huge flare up within their squad. They'll then be facing Exeter, who in turn will meet up with England...what we are doing at the moment isn't some foolproof 'safe' way of operating. It's a completely, 100% moral decision to lambast going out for a meal while justifying all the other travel, contact etc. that players will incur through the present manner of operating. These 'bubbles' aren't magical, as I said. The virus isn't a plague, it is killing very few people despite high infection rates, and the measures we are taking aren't stopping the spread anyway (I'm not sure they're even meant to, merely to slow it slightly to protect services like the NHS and bottlenecking on goods). All of that means - I can guarantee that even within this 'bubble', someone, somewhere will be breaking it, knowingly or unknowingly, coming in to contact with the suspected airborne virus, and that expecting rugby - a sport where you cannot socially distance - to remain sacrosanct is crazy. It's about profit of product and the commercialisation of sport over anything else. It's Eat Out to Help Out v free meals for kids. And it's all being justified with a completely arbitrary but self assured moral posturing which we do so well in this country.

I don't get it. I don't see much difference between having rugby operational and players going out for a meal.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Oct 2020, 6:48 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
RDW wrote:Whatever your view on the effectiveness of bubbles and Covid in general, the bottom line is the players signed an agreement not to do this kind of thing, they did it anyway, and now a high profile game, commercial revenues and the reputation of the Barbarians has taken a big hit. If the game ends up cancelled because of this then that's a huge issue in rugby terms.

I agree it shouldn't turn into a personal which hunt of each of the players, but there's absolutely no justifying what they did.

I would say there is given what the virus actually is (it's not the world ending mass killer we all feared 6 months ago), how it is spred, how 'lockdown' as it has been in the UK has a very dubious efficacy at halting the spread of the virus, and how this half-in, half-out approach that many businesses including pro sport are operating under is not significntly less 'safe' due to going out for a meal. As mentioned, I understand it from the logistics perspective. My issue is you either have rugby or you don't. If you want to stop the infection running through rugby you simply don't have rugby. The infection has spread through clubs irrespective of bubbles being respected. We have a situation where Wasps are still playing despite having a huge flare up within their squad. They'll then be facing Exeter, who in turn will meet up with England...what we are doing at the moment isn't some foolproof 'safe' way of operating. It's a completely, 100% moral decision to lambast going out for a meal while justifying all the other travel, contact etc. that players will incur through the present manner of operating. These 'bubbles' aren't magical, as I said. The virus isn't a plague, it is killing very few people despite high infection rates, and the measures we are taking aren't stopping the spread anyway (I'm not sure they're even meant to, merely to slow it slightly to protect services like the NHS and bottlenecking on goods). All of that means - I can guarantee that even within this 'bubble', someone, somewhere will be breaking it, knowingly or unknowingly, coming in to contact with the suspected airborne virus, and that expecting rugby - a sport where you cannot socially distance - to remain sacrosanct is crazy. It's about profit of product and the commercialisation of sport over anything else. It's Eat Out to Help Out v free meals for kids. And it's all being justified with a completely arbitrary but self assured moral posturing which we do so well in this country.

I don't get it. I don't see much difference between having rugby operational and players going out for a meal.

That's literally the point of lockdown and bubbles etc. The virus isn't a deadly killer but it is massively infectious. Slowing the spread means that the hospitals can cope with the numbers requiring care.

The players signed up to play on the condition that they would have to stay in the hotel. The hotel isn't a Travelodge it's a nice central London hotel with a whole banquet hall turned over as a big team room. Simple rule should have been easy to follow.

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Oct 2020, 7:16 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
RDW wrote:Whatever your view on the effectiveness of bubbles and Covid in general, the bottom line is the players signed an agreement not to do this kind of thing, they did it anyway, and now a high profile game, commercial revenues and the reputation of the Barbarians has taken a big hit. If the game ends up cancelled because of this then that's a huge issue in rugby terms.

I agree it shouldn't turn into a personal which hunt of each of the players, but there's absolutely no justifying what they did.

I would say there is given what the virus actually is (it's not the world ending mass killer we all feared 6 months ago), how it is spred, how 'lockdown' as it has been in the UK has a very dubious efficacy at halting the spread of the virus, and how this half-in, half-out approach that many businesses including pro sport are operating under is not significntly less 'safe' due to going out for a meal. As mentioned, I understand it from the logistics perspective. My issue is you either have rugby or you don't. If you want to stop the infection running through rugby you simply don't have rugby. The infection has spread through clubs irrespective of bubbles being respected. We have a situation where Wasps are still playing despite having a huge flare up within their squad. They'll then be facing Exeter, who in turn will meet up with England...what we are doing at the moment isn't some foolproof 'safe' way of operating. It's a completely, 100% moral decision to lambast going out for a meal while justifying all the other travel, contact etc. that players will incur through the present manner of operating. These 'bubbles' aren't magical, as I said. The virus isn't a plague, it is killing very few people despite high infection rates, and the measures we are taking aren't stopping the spread anyway (I'm not sure they're even meant to, merely to slow it slightly to protect services like the NHS and bottlenecking on goods). All of that means - I can guarantee that even within this 'bubble', someone, somewhere will be breaking it, knowingly or unknowingly, coming in to contact with the suspected airborne virus, and that expecting rugby - a sport where you cannot socially distance - to remain sacrosanct is crazy. It's about profit of product and the commercialisation of sport over anything else. It's Eat Out to Help Out v free meals for kids. And it's all being justified with a completely arbitrary but self assured moral posturing which we do so well in this country.

I don't get it. I don't see much difference between having rugby operational and players going out for a meal.

That's literally the point of lockdown and bubbles etc. The virus isn't a deadly killer but it is massively infectious. Slowing the spread means that the hospitals can cope with the numbers requiring care.

The players signed up to play on the condition that they would have to stay in the hotel. The hotel isn't a Travelodge it's a nice central London hotel with a whole banquet hall turned over as a big team room. Simple rule should have been easy to follow.

Of course, I understand that, but the difference between rugby and no rugby in aiding thaat would be sizeable. One meal? Not so much. It changes if they wre boozing, as I said. Much less control if they're tipsy.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 23 Oct 2020, 7:32 pm

While the Barbarians game was never a serious game it was probably going to be more warm up than we'd normally see. Got to feel sorry for guys like Malins, Mitchell and Dombrandt who may find by next week the top players are back available or the other guys now get the chance. Imagine if Dombrandt pulled out a motm, head to drop him completely....now it may be Willis coming from a motm against exeter bouncing into a chance with curry and vunipola. Luck always plays a part but bloody hell.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 23 Oct 2020, 8:24 pm

The issue is not whether the regulations imposed are correct, that is a separate debate outwith this now ex-game. The issue is the players took a sizeable pay day and agreed to abide by the regulations in exchange. They wilfully failed to meet their obligations.

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Post by nlpnlp Fri 23 Oct 2020, 9:13 pm

The issue is that most if not all of the players have been playing club rugby so know the bubble rules.  Some of them - and not 18 year old children - have chosen to break the rules.  Sorry but Robshaw, Wigglesworth and co should never be near a Barbarians, England or any other representative team again.  I was always a big supporter of Robshaw as an England player and captain, but feel completely let down by this.  Covid19 is not a joke and this makes rugby union look like complete pric ks.

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Oct 2020, 9:19 pm

LondonTiger wrote:The issue is not whether the regulations imposed are correct, that is a separate debate outwith this now ex-game.

I'm not sure it's a separate issue. I was simply stating my opinion about them in a specific manner. It's not like it would need a different thread or whatever to post that sort of thing...and it certainly isn't deserving of the abuse and being called a troll etc. by some undesirables.

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Oct 2020, 9:20 pm

nlpnlp wrote:The issue is that most if not all of the players have been playing club rugby so know the bubble rules.  Some of them - and not 18 year old children - have chosen to break the rules.  Sorry but Robshaw, Wigglesworth and co should never be near a Barbarians, England or any other representative team again.  I was always a big supporter of Robshaw as an England player and captain, but feel completely let down by this.  Covid19 is not a joke and this makes rugby union look like complete pric ks.

Yep, the media is very capable of inducing this feeling among many people. Scary stuff.

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Post by Mr Bounce Fri 23 Oct 2020, 11:28 pm

LondonTiger wrote:The issue is the players took a sizeable pay day and agreed to abide by the regulations in exchange. They wilfully failed to meet their obligations.

I couldn't agree more. The rules (however silly you may think them to be) are there for a reason - the players themselves are strong healthy lads - if they catch Covid they'll probably be completely fine - but it's others they come into contact with who could then pass it (unknowingly) to a further person. If that person was Eddie Jones, well a 60 year old is not going to have the same constitution as a fit 20 or 30-something player. Slade for example is a Type 1 Diabetic. As one myself, I know how much easier it is to contract an infection than a person without type 1. It's also more difficult to overcome.

I have no sympathy for these 12 players whoever they may be. They made a judgement call that was beyond dumb. I hope the RFU makes examples of them. As my Dad used to tell me when I got caught doing something I shouldn't: "I'm not angry, just disappointed" furious

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 23 Oct 2020, 11:42 pm

The number of reports and amount of name calling is unbecoming of anyone claiming to be an adult.

I shall unlock this when I wake.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 24 Oct 2020, 2:33 pm

Apologies for the delay, went for 20k bike ride, followed by a 5k run and 1k swim to finish, and completely forgot to log back in.

Please all play nicely and desist in the name calling.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Oct 2020, 2:52 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Apologies for the delay, went for 20k bike ride, followed by a 5k run and 1k swim to finish, and completely forgot to log back in.

Please all play nicely and desist in the name calling.
Congrats LT. Is that your first half Olympic triathlon or a regular thing for you? Unless I'm forgetting the distances for one I did a while back I think your swim is slightly longer than usual there as well is it not?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 24 Oct 2020, 3:01 pm

Bloody hell LT. Well done. You got a euphoric feeling or regretting it?!

Good day of rugby today in front of the tv is earned.

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 24 Oct 2020, 3:06 pm

The Baabaas have let themselves down big time,maybe it is time to knock it on the head. Matt Dawson had nothing positive to say about the barbarians experience.
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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Oct 2020, 3:40 pm

Just warhcing the ireland v italy game.

Can someone please explain the logic to me...you cant shake hands before the game...yet you can play a rugby game for 80 mins despite how close players get during a game.
Covid mockery once again.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 24 Oct 2020, 3:42 pm

king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Apologies for the delay, went for 20k bike ride, followed by a 5k run and 1k swim to finish, and completely forgot to log back in.

Please all play nicely and desist in the name calling.
Congrats LT. Is that your first half Olympic triathlon or a regular thing for you? Unless I'm forgetting the distances for one I did a while back I think your swim is slightly longer than usual there as well is it not?

An Olympic half would be 800m I think. However I did it in the wrong order with a shower between run and swim.

I am aiming to do a couple of Tris next year though, but starting with a sprint distance in York.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 24 Oct 2020, 3:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Bloody hell LT. Well done. You got a euphoric feeling or regretting it?!

Good day of rugby today in front of the tv is earned.

Thighs hurting in part due to pedalling into a strong headwind. Currently watching Ireland v Italy, but will miss some of the GP final as have a Taxi Dad obligation.

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Post by Guest Sat 24 Oct 2020, 6:01 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just warhcing the ireland v italy game.

Can someone please explain the logic to me...you cant shake hands before the game...yet you can play a rugby game for 80 mins despite how close players get during a game.
Covid mockery once again.  


Precisely.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Oct 2020, 6:29 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Apologies for the delay, went for 20k bike ride, followed by a 5k run and 1k swim to finish, and completely forgot to log back in.

Please all play nicely and desist in the name calling.
Congrats LT. Is that your first half Olympic triathlon or a regular thing for you? Unless I'm forgetting the distances for one I did a while back I think your swim is slightly longer than usual there as well is it not?

An Olympic half would be 800m I think. However I did it in the wrong order with a shower between run and swim.

I am aiming to do a couple of Tris next year though, but starting with a sprint distance in York.
Good on you LT. I did a few when I was around twenty. I loved the cycling and swimming but hated running so drifted out of it. It's a wonderful way to get/keep fit though.

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Post by nlpnlp Sat 24 Oct 2020, 11:39 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Just warhcing the ireland v italy game.

Can someone please explain the logic to me...you cant shake hands before the game...yet you can play a rugby game for 80 mins despite how close players get during a game.
Covid mockery once again.  


Precisely.

The point is that they have all been and stayed in 'their bubble' for 10 days plus, so that they are safe to play against each other. The not shaking hands bot is just for show.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 25 Oct 2020, 1:58 am

Nowell out of all autumn games with a toe injury he's been carryin a while

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 25 Oct 2020, 8:57 am

Just a reminder from the BBC as to what england need to achieve next Saturday:
'England are the most likely champions.

They will win the title if they beat Italy with a bonus point and France beat Ireland, unless Les Blues earn a bonus-point win and secure a margin of victory two points greater than England's.

If England win with a bonus point and Ireland beat France without a bonus point, the title would come down to points difference.



England's points difference is 23 points worse than Ireland so in that instance they would need to beat Italy by a margin of 24 points more than Ireland's win.

England would also win the title by beating Italy without a bonus point if France also beat Ireland in the same fashion, as long as France's margin of victory was not two points greater than England's.

England will be champions if they win and Ireland and France draw.

If England lose or draw against Italy, then a win of any description or even a draw for Ireland would see them lift the title.'

You'd imagine that France would be able to beat Ireland in Paris but they are still a crazy team. You never know when they'll implode, with a lock attacking someone.

Could well be a cracking last day.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 25 Oct 2020, 10:06 am

I'm expecting Ireland to beat France but not with a bonus point while England will predictably thrash Italy.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 25 Oct 2020, 12:09 pm

A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

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Post by Guest Sun 25 Oct 2020, 7:16 pm

So a 5 pointer hands Ireland the title? Wow, didn't realise they were in with a shot. It'd be totally undeserved but I sort of hope it happens. Partly because I think England will dominate and I don't want to see them win 4 on the trot going in to 2023 but also because it'll paper over the cracks for Ireland and hurt them in the long term.

Stupid France, shooting themselves in the foot in Scotland.

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Post by LondonTiger Sun 25 Oct 2020, 8:34 pm

king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

It would be good to see Thorley get a go.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 25 Oct 2020, 11:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

It would be good to see Thorley get a go.
I thought he might get a run against Italy prior to the season being postponed. Hopefully he still gets a shot. He's got power as a well as his sheer pace.

May has been outstanding for England over the last few years but being 30 now he's one bad injury away from losing some pace. The Jones game plan that is heavily reliant on kick chase needs that sort of pace to be potent. Thorley is probably next inline in that regard.

When the Premiership season restarts I expect Adam Radwan to make an impact in that regard as well though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 26 Oct 2020, 8:04 am

Reckon it should be today the rest of the squad are called up. There are some obvious ones who will definitely make it. I'll lay my cards on the table which will be no surprise to anyone: I'm going to be sat in the corner in a huge grumpy if Willis and Robson aren't there. I may even agree with Bracken that Jones is just doing it to thumb his nose at the media!

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:03 am

king_carlos wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

It would be good to see Thorley get a go.
I thought he might get a run against Italy prior to the season being postponed. Hopefully he still gets a shot. He's got power as a well as his sheer pace.

May has been outstanding for England over the last few years but being 30 now he's one bad injury away from losing some pace. The Jones game plan that is heavily reliant on kick chase needs that sort of pace to be potent. Thorley is probably next inline in that regard.

When the Premiership season restarts I expect Adam Radwan to make an impact in that regard as well though.
Id love to see him have a real explosive start to the season. The lad can make things happen on the pitch.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:05 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Reckon it should be today the rest of the squad are called up. There are some obvious ones who will definitely make it. I'll lay my cards on the table which will be no surprise to anyone: I'm going to be sat in the corner in a huge grumpy if Willis and Robson aren't there. I may even agree with Bracken that Jones is just doing it to thumb his nose at the media!

Im pretty sure Willis will be in the squad.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:09 am

king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

Nowell is almost like the modern day James Simpson Daniel. The second an England squad gets announced he gets injured...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:11 am

Not seen much of Radwan, how does he compare to Kibigrige? Been impressed with him this year and looks like hes finally fulfilling that early potential (that was dulled a touch by Richards as an outsider).

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Post by king_carlos Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:11 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Reckon it should be today the rest of the squad are called up. There are some obvious ones who will definitely make it. I'll lay my cards on the table which will be no surprise to anyone: I'm going to be sat in the corner in a huge grumpy if Willis and Robson aren't there. I may even agree with Bracken that Jones is just doing it to thumb his nose at the media!

Im pretty sure Willis will be in the squad.
Particularly with Lawes and Ludlam injured. Plus the congested schedule meaning the squad will probably be pretty big.

6.T Curry, Wilson, Hill
7.Underhill, Earl, Willis
8.Vunipola, Dombrandt

If Ludlam were fit then Willis might have been fighting for one spot with Dombrandt but I expect those to be the back rows named.

I believe the squad announcement is due at noon so we will know soon.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:15 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

Nowell is almost like the modern day James Simpson Daniel. The second an England squad gets announced he gets injured...
I'd say he's had more luck than JSD to be fair. 34 England caps and 2 Lions caps at 27-years old. His recent injury record has been patchy though. Arguably a side effect of how he plays the game.

He will have just turned 30 at the next RWC which is pretty prime timing for an all round winger such as Nowell who doesn't rely on out and out speed. I think he will stay in the frame for the foreseeable future.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not seen much of Radwan, how does he compare to Kibigrige?  Been impressed with him this year and looks like hes finally fulfilling that early potential (that was dulled a touch by Richards as an outsider).
GF is better placed to compare him to Kibirige but he's got the same sort of pace, a great step and importantly he has a good all round game. His handling, positioning, tackling and kicking are all solid. With limited senior rugby under his belt he will naturally need experience to improve those things further but unlike a lot of young wings with the attacking potential of Radwan he doesn't have an obvious weakness to his game. Certainly one to watch IMO.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:49 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

Nowell is almost like the modern day James Simpson Daniel. The second an England squad gets announced he gets injured...

Though in this case it is a long standing injury, for which he delayed the surgery so he could help Exeter to the double.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 26 Oct 2020, 11:10 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:A shame to lose Nowell. He's been in good form for a guy carrying an injury. I was hoping we'd see May, Watson and Nowell in the same back three for a couple of games.

Nowell is almost like the modern day James Simpson Daniel. The second an England squad gets announced he gets injured...

Though in this case it is a long standing injury, for which he delayed the surgery so he could help Exeter to the double.
I think that shows how much the double meant to those Exeter players given he has surrendered England opportunities in a Lions year.

Nowell will be expected to come back in if he's fit for the 2021 Six Nations but if Thorley and/or Cokanasiga can show some form he may slip down the pecking order.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 26 Oct 2020, 11:14 am

Until Big Joe sorts out the defensive side of his game he'll always be behind Nowell in the pecking order i'd have thought, may have the edge on explosive power but Jack just makes hard yards every time he carries, often thought he'd make a decent full back in the Mike Brown mould.

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