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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by GSC on Fri 21 Aug 2020, 6:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

A very strong position for England with runs on the board and a series lead in hand.

Pakistan going to have to produce something special from here to rescue the series
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:07 pm

Can we forget the win and let Crawley go for Lara's record?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:07 pm

9th highest ever stand by England

Crawley second highest ever score by an England number 3

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On the keeper debate its worth remembering that the only two games in any format Foakes has played since the end of a poor 2019 domestic season were a warm up in Sri Lanka and one at the start of this summer. Thats it. Its not like hes demanding a place in the side, Buttler was getting close to losing his by his own admission but now theres no real pressure on him from his own performances or from anyone challenging him.
As with the spinners issue its a facet of the way cricket is being played now, especially with concussion subs needed, that some players might find getting any cricket at all extremely difficult and numbers twos struggle to push their case.
The issue with Foakes in Asia comes to how to get a balanced side with the best two form spinners in it (if that can be measured without them playing any cricket ...)

I just dont see Buttler going anywhere after this summers batting, unless its to rest him which could be a distinct possibility for Bangaldesh given his importance to white ball and ambitions to play franchise cricket. He should keep working on his keeping too, hopefully England will hook up another consultant coach ( or ask Foakes to justify his bench warming wages)

Calling myself out on this before Guilford sees it... turns out Foakes was released and is playing for Surrey today. Still his first proper game for almost a year!

And he's taken a neat catch off Rikki Clarke's bowling. Should be viewable for you, Soul, on Surrey twitter. Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:11 pm

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/208504.html

Something like the 75th highest individual test score of all time. Highest by an Englishman was Len Hutton's 364 which has stood for 82 years.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:13 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On the keeper debate its worth remembering that the only two games in any format Foakes has played since the end of a poor 2019 domestic season were a warm up in Sri Lanka and one at the start of this summer. Thats it. Its not like hes demanding a place in the side, Buttler was getting close to losing his by his own admission but now theres no real pressure on him from his own performances or from anyone challenging him.
As with the spinners issue its a facet of the way cricket is being played now, especially with concussion subs needed, that some players might find getting any cricket at all extremely difficult and numbers twos struggle to push their case.
The issue with Foakes in Asia comes to how to get a balanced side with the best two form spinners in it (if that can be measured without them playing any cricket ...)

I just dont see Buttler going anywhere after this summers batting, unless its to rest him which could be a distinct possibility for Bangaldesh given his importance to white ball and ambitions to play franchise cricket. He should keep working on his keeping too, hopefully England will hook up another consultant coach ( or ask Foakes to justify his bench warming wages)

Calling myself out on this before Guilford sees it... turns out Foakes was released and is playing for Surrey today. Still his first proper game for almost a year!

And he's taken a neat catch off Rikki Clarke's bowling. Should be viewable for you, Soul, on Surrey twitter. Smile

Im tempted to start a Rikki Clarke is a must for Asia campaign, the choice between him and Bess could be the key factor that decides if England win or lose Whistle

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:14 pm

Gooseberry wrote:On the keeper debate its worth remembering that the only two games in any format Foakes has played since the end of a poor 2019 domestic season were a warm up in Sri Lanka and one at the start of this summer. Thats it. Its not like hes demanding a place in the side, Buttler was getting close to losing his by his own admission but now theres no real pressure on him from his own performances or from anyone challenging him.
As with the spinners issue its a facet of the way cricket is being played now, especially with concussion subs needed, that some players might find getting any cricket at all extremely difficult and numbers twos struggle to push their case.
The issue with Foakes in Asia comes to how to get a balanced side with the best two form spinners in it (if that can be measured without them playing any cricket ...)

I just dont see Buttler going anywhere after this summers batting, unless its to rest him which could be a distinct possibility for Bangaldesh given his importance to white ball and ambitions to play franchise cricket. He should keep working on his keeping too, hopefully England will hook up another consultant coach ( or ask Foakes to justify his bench warming wages)

What does any of that have to do with who the best keeper is?

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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:15 pm

Pick 9 seamers, Crawley and Buttler, it'll be fine
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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:16 pm

First byes of the innings...turns out having a good keeper doesnt stop you getting hammered after all.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:19 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:On the keeper debate its worth remembering that the only two games in any format Foakes has played since the end of a poor 2019 domestic season were a warm up in Sri Lanka and one at the start of this summer. Thats it. Its not like hes demanding a place in the side, Buttler was getting close to losing his by his own admission but now theres no real pressure on him from his own performances or from anyone challenging him.
As with the spinners issue its a facet of the way cricket is being played now, especially with concussion subs needed, that some players might find getting any cricket at all extremely difficult and numbers twos struggle to push their case.
The issue with Foakes in Asia comes to how to get a balanced side with the best two form spinners in it (if that can be measured without them playing any cricket ...)

I just dont see Buttler going anywhere after this summers batting, unless its to rest him which could be a distinct possibility for Bangaldesh given his importance to white ball and ambitions to play franchise cricket. He should keep working on his keeping too, hopefully England will hook up another consultant coach ( or ask Foakes to justify his bench warming wages)

What does any of that have to do with who the best keeper is?

Is got to do with who should play in a team, and how judge a player who hasnt being playing proper cricket, and the last time he did had an extended poor spell. I'm not sure why you think I'm only allowed to make posts about who the best keeper is, or that that was even the topic of conversation or sole point that's relevant to the debate.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:21 pm

Folks - when is tea today? Thanks.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:Can we forget the win and let Crawley go for Lara's record?

Was wondering who was going to make that suggestion first Smile

The trouble with this kind of innings is that it gets to the point - as now - where the fielding side is just going through the motions , waiting for a declaration. All the pressure has gone from the batsmen and it becomes just fun for the statisticians . Occasional bowlers , fielders mostly distributed in the deep...not particularly interesting to watch.

They don't seem to be batting like a team that wishes to declare at 500 though. I wonder if Root has a time rather than a run target in mind ?

Crawley gone Shocked Stumped off the part timer ...

267 ...not bad .

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:25 pm

Well OK turns out having a good keeper can make a cap spinner brilliant.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:27 pm

Ah, Crawley goes for 267. A superb knock. clap clap clap

Was just going to point out that Len Hutton brought up 300 in his famous 364 on this very day 82 years ago. Would have been a neat coincidence had Crawley done the same.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:28 pm

Yeah, not bad at all. Wink Fantastic innings.

Gone to a part timer but Rizwan at least deserved the stumping.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:Ah, Crawley goes for 267. A superb knock. clap clap clap

Was just going to point out that Len Hutton brought up 300 in his famous 364 on this very day 82 years ago. Would have been a neat coincidence had Crawley done the same.

Would have been nice...but then you had to go and hex him with the Lara comment Smile

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:32 pm

Seems an odd summer for england all round. Theres been some absolutely epic individual efforts but collectively theyve rarely felt like a fulling clicking unit. Theres a couple of the wins that could easily have gone the other way, and even the one against windies that they dominated wasnt a mile off a draw.

Hope they can cap this off with the win that stand deserves

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:35 pm

I feel that they would be better off declaring now and hope to bowl them out twice, the extra runs are just eating into time that isn't there.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:37 pm

Bizzare stat Im now watching is that the most Abbas has ever conceded in an innings is exactly 100, but hes done that 3 times in his 20 tests. Hes currently on 82 so theres a chance he could end up with a 4th occurrence.

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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:38 pm

If England had to win the game to take the series they might be a bit more aggressive I guess. As it is with rain around might as well go big and make Pakistan survive anyway
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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:40 pm

Plan is clearly to bat once. And starting to look as if they only want a short session bowling tonight , so had better not lose too much time to the weather. Reckon if they needed to win this to take the series they'd be a bit more enterprising .

Feels a bit unfair to complain but I do find this part of a game rather boring...a bit like those third innings target setting processions ...

Have to stay up and watch because I want to see England bowl. If the light or more rain ends up preventing that I'm going to be rather grumpy !

Tea 490/5.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:41 pm

I'd rather see the team develop a killer instinct and go for the jugular here, aside from bolstering Buttlers average this adding very little now.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:46 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I feel that they would be better off declaring now and hope to bowl them out twice, the extra runs are just eating into time that isn't there.

Theres 3 days and session left, if Pakistan can bat that time they can pass 500 twice over and still have time to go get chips.
Admittedly we are likely to see a fair chunk lot to weather, but its premature to be over focused on time pressure right now. England are chewing up the good batting time, declare after tea and have a good bowl at them as it gets darker and then with fresh bowlers and a newish ball very early in the morning and hope theres a bit of dew to make it move. Right now the pitch is a bit of road and sticking the openers in would get them off the hook a bit.
Plus this way they wear Pakistan down mentally and physically and get more runs towards having the option to enforce the follow on. Do feel they could push the run rate a bit more though.

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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:47 pm

Don't think much harm if any being done here. England are going to have to enforce the follow on to win the test and pushing that past 300 + only adds to scoreboard pressure.

Also good for honing game management and showing patience in the longer format
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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:48 pm

Also it's tea on day 2. Not the first time someone would be made to look foolish by captaining by weather forecast
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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 4:51 pm

Soul - in some ways, batting on isn't adding much. But I like to subscribe to the school of grind 'em down more, keep 'em wondering and p*ss 'em off even more. Then go for the jugular. Certainly don't let Pakistan's openers prepare for their dig over a comparatively lengthy tea interval.

34 overs currently left. Maybe bat on for 8 more, lose 2 for the change over and then have 24 at 'em.

PS 2 catches now for your man Foakes, the second off Sammy.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:02 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Soul - in some ways, batting on isn't adding much. But I like to subscribe to the school of grind 'em down more, keep 'em wondering and p*ss 'em off even more. Then go for the jugular. Certainly don't let Pakistan's openers prepare for their dig over a comparatively lengthy tea interval.

34 overs currently left. Maybe bat on for 8 more, lose 2 for the change over and then have 24 at 'em.

PS  2 catches now for your man Foakes, the second off Sammy.

That plan sounds about right. What I don't want is to see them bat another 15-20 overs. Guess we will see how they play on resumption...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:03 pm

I'd like England to get 550 which should be enough for them to enforce the follow-on, which is the key to this game.

Still, I think the rain and placid pitch makes the draw favourite.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:10 pm

Woakes picking up where he left off the other week...likes a drive thumbsup

Nasser gets his way , they try a bouncer ...and he whacks it back for four. 500 up. Shouldn't be long now.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'd like England to get 550 which should be enough for them to enforce the follow-on, which is the key to this game.

Still, I think the rain and placid pitch makes the draw favourite.

IF (I accept it's a big ''if') we can have Pakistan 2 or 3 down tonight, I would guess the draw won't look such a clear favourite. Wink Whilst that's a stretch, that's what I would have as an aim.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'd like England to get 550 which should be enough for them to enforce the follow-on, which is the key to this game.

Still, I think the rain and placid pitch makes the draw favourite.

If they need 550 to enforce a follow on , then you are probably correct about running out of overs. (Assuming we do lose a fair bit of the last two days) Which is why I'd be pulling out a bit earlier. Put it this way : they won't lose from here.

Two or three more overs should be plenty , though I guess how Pakistan handle batting after this lengthy ordeal in the field will be the more significant factor.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:25 pm

Didnt realise this was the first time since 2017 they'd passed 500.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:32 pm

Buttlers highest first class score and past 150, Only two other England keepers ever passed 150 with the bat.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:37 pm

Buttler reaches 150 thumbsup

Strangely his first boundary for three or four hours ! He's been dealing almost exclusively in singles lately ...which rather suggests England are intending to bat quite a bit longer.

530/5 and I don't think they are aiming for guildford's 24 overs at Pakistan tonight.

Buttler gone now - Fawad gets a wicket Smile

Now what do they do from here ?

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:37 pm

Another wicket to a part timer, pretty embarrassing for the bowlers!

Buttler went an entire session without a boundary during that epic, must be a first for him.

Englands top run scorer of the summer.


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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:38 pm

Buttler goes for 152. Another fine knock from him to complement his match-winning effort a couple of weeks ago. Early days, but maybe he has finally turned the corner with the bat?

I'd declare now. England aren't going as quickly as I'd like.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:41 pm

Was a tame end ; but you'd think Jos might have been getting a bit tired . Doubt he's ever batted anything like that long before !

152 ...like Crawley , his highest first class score. They might bat on a bit just to give him a few minutes to rest before coming out to keep wicket.

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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:41 pm

With Jos out you'd suspect they won't go on much longer now
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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:44 pm

Although getting out pegged him back below 50 Crawleys average is still the highest in the England team now. He started the match as the lowest of the batsmen/keepers, including Denly.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:57 pm

Declare...

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:57 pm

They should've just declared at the drinks break but do feel theres a touch of mind games going on here as well as wanting to ensure they dont take too much off the new ball tonight. Pakistan look a bit done though so ideal to be getting a bowl at them when tired now. Roots dressed for fielding so must be coming soon ...

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:57 pm

Down to less than twenty overs to bowl tonight now. Not exactly going ballistic either. I get that the delay is probably p...ing Pakistan off ; but surely they aren't going much longer ?

546/6

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 5:58 pm

alfie wrote:Buttler reaches 150 thumbsup

Strangely his first boundary for three or four hours ! He's been dealing almost exclusively in singles lately ...which rather suggests England are intending to bat quite a bit longer.

530/5 and I don't think they are aiming for guildford's 24 overs at Pakistan tonight.

Buttler gone now - Fawad gets a wicket Smile

Now what do they do from here ?

This is a bit irritating. They ask for my advice, I give it freely and then they ignore it. Ok, they didn't exactly ask for it. Wink

Seriously though, I think Root can give the bowlers a go now.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:00 pm

Now its 7 down seriously they have to declare. Its not the end of the world but seems daft to send broad out ....

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:00 pm

Woakes out, England still batting on...why?

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:03 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Buttler reaches 150 thumbsup

Strangely his first boundary for three or four hours ! He's been dealing almost exclusively in singles lately ...which rather suggests England are intending to bat quite a bit longer.

530/5 and I don't think they are aiming for guildford's 24 overs at Pakistan tonight.

Buttler gone now - Fawad gets a wicket Smile

Now what do they do from here ?

This is a bit irritating. They ask for my advice, I give it freely and then they ignore it. Ok, they didn't exactly ask for it. Wink

Seriously though, I think Root can give the bowlers a go now.

He will have to soon ...Woakes gone , to Fawad the Wrecker so they might get bowled out Smile

If they win the match I guess Root can say the plan worked. But I honestly reckon they've wasted about an hour of bowling time by fiddling about over the last session and a half instead of getting on with it from the overwhelming position they had reached earlier today.

Broad in ahead of Archer , which makes sense. But I bet he'd rather be bowling...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:08 pm

I'm not really understanding the logic behind this now.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:15 pm

Can only be they want two goes with a new ball ? Ten overs or so tonight and again in the morning ? Rather than get it too old and worn this evening.
I don't agree with it but I can't see any other reason for delaying .

At least Stuart Broad is always entertaining with bat in hand Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:19 pm

Pakistani openers will be delighted at England continuing to bat. Particularly with the light starting to fade and the shadows getting noticeably longer.

Can't fathom Root not wanting 20 or so overs at Pakistan tonight.

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Post by GSC on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:28 pm

Broad out and root calls them in
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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Aug 2020, 6:28 pm

Fawad Alam two wickets, not what he was picked for but at least he can feel hes made a token contribution for his recall now

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