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The summer of cricket 2020

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Post by GSC on Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

A very strong position for England with runs on the board and a series lead in hand.

Pakistan going to have to produce something special from here to rescue the series
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Post by Gooseberry on Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Not picking Mo turned into a masterstroke then.

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Post by alfie on Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:28 am

An amazing comeback by England - and a remarkable fold up from Australia : bit like that t20 in fact. They have a few bits and pieces players , of course ; which gives them extra bowling options but a bit of a tail. Choices.

Choice of MoTM doesn't surprise me really . Archer was excellent especially in that opening burst ; and the pundits love him anyway. Can't really begrudge him ; though I'd have thought Woakes was actually the one who turned the game by getting both set batsmen and the dangerous Maxwell in that devastating three wickets for one run rampage...plus a useful turn with the bat.
As guildford said , Tom C had a strong case too ; and I guess you might have awarded it to Morgan for a top score (modest though it was ) and some ultra-cool captaincy...

Think Smith will be back for game three ; probably ought to drop Warner but I can't see that somehow. More likely Stoinis will be the casualty. Different pitch : England might reassess ; Wood might be fit again , which would make for a tricky choice of seamers. Don't think
they'll go back to Moeen.

Teams fairly closely matched right now. Could go either way. Would be nice to finish this peculiar International season with another gripping contest...

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:13 am

On australias tail can I just m.tion thy starc and cummins really aren't that handy with the bat in this format averaging 9 and 12 between them. Although England fielded 5 proper bowlers and Aus 4 the difference woakes and curran gives them is huge.
And that's without Stokes, and Moeen, although I'd have to question if hes now anything more than the kind of bits and pieces player australias side is packed with. Mos lack of wickets in this format is a huge problem if hes asked to bowl 10 overs.

As with the first game Australia had one big stand, the difference this time was England breaking it in time to get at that tail.

Big questions still remain for England about their batting when its not a 350 wicket. And the second spinner issue is just get more obvious. Whether its 50 or 20 overs this winter is going to be crucial in working out how to play in Asia, right now it looks like their two biggest problems could get exposed there.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:12 am

The difference between the two tails is a simple one for me; Cummins and Starc can hit a long ball when they connect but unlike Turran, Woakes and Rashid don't have the ability to manipulate the field and run 1s and 2s when it's not there to hit so can end up being strangled a bit.

The top 4 of each side you'd have to say is pretty equal but beyond that in a batting capacity you'd pick every single England player from 5 down. For some context in that and going by the teams usual 8-10;

Chris Woakes- 24.74 @ 89.63
Tom Curran- 45.5 @ 95.45
Adil Rashid- 18.61 @102.42

Pat Cummins- 9.65 @ 73.49
Mitchell Starc- 11.81 @ 89.24
Adam Zampa- 6.52 @ 59.90

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Post by king_carlos on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm

Tom Curran really showed his worth with the bat and Dilly once again provided useful runs.

Plunkett being a powerful hitter in the lower order was a valuable addition on top of his strong bowling in the middle overs. He made a few vital cameos late on in the innings. If Turran (I think my infantile mind likes that even more than CurranT cheers Soul...) can replace Plunkett's lower order hitting at 9 then all the better.

Woakes is a 'proper bat' when in form. Not as dangerous as Mo from 7 but definitely no weaker than many number 7s in ODI cricket.

In terms of picking every England player from number 5 down in a mixed side, I'd probably still take Maxwell over Billings at 6. Having Buttler and Maxwell at 5/6 both with a strike rate around 120 in ODI cricket would be serious power. Billings is playing well though and doing a lot to remain long term first reserve for the 4/5/6 spots that Morgan, Stokes and Buttler have locked down.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:44 pm

I still prefer CurranT Bun

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Post by king_carlos on Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:12 pm

CurranT I like but it doesn't really work the same way with CurranS and CurranB.

Turran, Surran and Burran has a whole new appeal to me though I must say.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:38 pm

king_carlos wrote:Tom Curran really showed his worth with the bat and Dilly once again provided useful runs.

Plunkett being a powerful hitter in the lower order was a valuable addition on top of his strong bowling in the middle overs. He made a few vital cameos late on in the innings. If Turran (I think my infantile mind likes that even more than CurranT cheers Soul...) can replace Plunkett's lower order hitting at 9 then all the better.

Woakes is a 'proper bat' when in form. Not as dangerous as Mo from 7 but definitely no weaker than many number 7s in ODI cricket.

In terms of picking every England player from number 5 down in a mixed side, I'd probably still take Maxwell over Billings at 6. Having Buttler and Maxwell at 5/6 both with a strike rate around 120 in ODI cricket would be serious power. Billings is playing well though and doing a lot to remain long term first reserve for the 4/5/6 spots that Morgan, Stokes and Buttler have locked down.

I do see the argument for having Maxwell in there but I do like having two more authentic players in the top 6 so Root as the anchor at 3 with Billings or more probably Stokes offering some more solidity at 5/6, you can then use Buttler floating as and when you need him. Maxwell is too hit and miss for liking and would ideally bat at 7.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:19 pm

king_carlos wrote:CurranT I like but it doesn't really work the same way with CurranS and CurranB.

Turran, Surran and Burran has a whole new appeal to me though I must say.

Is CurranS just Sam or any combination of the 3 of them?

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Post by king_carlos on Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Tom Curran really showed his worth with the bat and Dilly once again provided useful runs.

Plunkett being a powerful hitter in the lower order was a valuable addition on top of his strong bowling in the middle overs. He made a few vital cameos late on in the innings. If Turran (I think my infantile mind likes that even more than CurranT cheers Soul...) can replace Plunkett's lower order hitting at 9 then all the better.

Woakes is a 'proper bat' when in form. Not as dangerous as Mo from 7 but definitely no weaker than many number 7s in ODI cricket.

In terms of picking every England player from number 5 down in a mixed side, I'd probably still take Maxwell over Billings at 6. Having Buttler and Maxwell at 5/6 both with a strike rate around 120 in ODI cricket would be serious power. Billings is playing well though and doing a lot to remain long term first reserve for the 4/5/6 spots that Morgan, Stokes and Buttler have locked down.

I do see the argument for having Maxwell in there but I do like having two more authentic players in the top 6 so Root as the anchor at 3 with Billings or more probably Stokes offering some more solidity at 5/6, you can then use Buttler floating as and when you need him. Maxwell is too hit and miss for liking and would ideally bat at 7.

If Stokes were available I'd take him over Maxwell no doubt. I think I'd take Maxwell over Billings regardless of his inconsistency, though I don't deny his inconsistency. The look on Langer's face after he was cleaned up by Woakes said a lot of how it must feel to coach the guy!

In the modern ODI game where big scores can be set/chased by most teams I think there is a lot that someone with that striking power adds to a batting lineup though. In a choice between Buttler averaging 40 at a strike rate of 120 or Maxwell averaging 33 at a strike rate of 123 I'd take Buttler every time of course. An average of 33 at that strike rate, plus his offies and sublime fielding is still a dangerous package Maxwell offers at 6/7 in the order. Something of a luxury player but if you've got the top order of Australia (or England for that matter) then I think it's worth the gamble.

To me Root and Morgan are two 'authentic' players. Stokes a third when available. Whilst Morgan can play all the shots, especially off the spinners, his basics such as hitting in the V are very good. His ability to manipulate the field with fairly low risk shots by going 'over the top' in the V is so impressive. If anything I think he's got better at that side of his batting with experience.

Root has been so good for this ODI side during Morgan's captaincy that it's easy to overlook compared to the big hitters. Averaging over 50 at a good strike rate is excellent though. His ability to anchor an innings, set a platform for the big hitters and vitally rotate the strike to get those hitters facing lots of deliveries has been invaluable. England look noticeably wobblier with Root out of form.

I really love that despite having several senior players out of form, missing Stokes and an evolving bowling attack that Morgan and Silverwood have still insisted on playing on tougher batting wickets outside this teams comfort zone. That drive to evolve and take risks was what turned the ODI side around, it's great that Morgan has that same drive after the World Cup win.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:14 am

Gooseberry wrote:
king_carlos wrote:CurranT I like but it doesn't really work the same way with CurranS and CurranB.

Turran, Surran and Burran has a whole new appeal to me though I must say.

Is CurranS  just Sam or any combination of the 3 of them?

CurranS would be Sam in my mind.

The plural of Curran brothers is Curri if I'm not much mistaken.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:53 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
king_carlos wrote:CurranT I like but it doesn't really work the same way with CurranS and CurranB.

Turran, Surran and Burran has a whole new appeal to me though I must say.

Is CurranS  just Sam or any combination of the 3 of them?

CurranS would be Sam in my mind.

The plural of Curran brothers is Curri if I'm not much mistaken.

Whereas the rugger players are Currai?

Mawell...lets agree we would trade Moeen for him. England can carry a bits and pieces player at 7 when Stokes is fit and still have 5 proper bowlers as well. Having Buttler over Carey only adds to the depth they have on batting in that middle order. The issue Mawell/Marsh/Stoinis bring to Australia is they have 3 part time bowlers who don't quite carry their weight purely in their batting.

It does sound like Smith should be back for the final game though which does give Australia a lot more solidity in that batting. Smith can bat properly and bat long, picking the ones and twos much better than the hitters can. The tails always going to be an issue when Zampa isnt even number 11 but its going to be harder work to get to it.

Hopefully another thriller to end whats been a largely entertaining summer.


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Post by Duty281 on Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 pm

Fresh pitch for tomorrow's game so that will favour the batsmen and, by extension, England, who have struggled to establish their natural game with bat in hand so far. Steve Smith has passed the concussion tests, but Langer still sounds cautious about putting him into the fray tomorrow.

If England win tomorrow, or tie I suppose, they'll keep their impressive unbeaten record in bilateral ODI series going. And England haven't lost a series this summer, so it would be good to keep that preserved, too.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:38 pm

England win the toss and...bat first. That's different. Wood in for S Curran. Australia are unchanged, meaning no Smith in the line-up.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 pm

No Smith for Australia is good news for England.

Good to see Wood back but harsh on Sam Curran after last match but Wood is the superior batter and bowler.
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:55 pm

eirebilly wrote:No Smith for Australia is good news for England.

Good to see Wood back but harsh on Sam Curran after last match but Wood is the superior batter and bowler.

Hmm not so convinced on the batting.

i suspect the decision was down to the pitch as much as anything else. The worn wickets maybe suited dibbly dobbler bowling a bit more than this one which should be truer but give better bounce and pace.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

Roy....
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

Oh dear, 0/1 after the first ball.

Jason Roy out in the first over again!

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:03 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:No Smith for Australia is good news for England.

Good to see Wood back but harsh on Sam Curran after last match but Wood is the superior batter and bowler.

Hmm not so convinced on the batting.

i suspect the decision was down to the pitch as much as anything else. The worn wickets maybe suited dibbly dobbler bowling a bit more than this one which should be truer but give better bounce and pace.

Oh i think that Wood is the superior batter, far more composure than Sam Curran.

Roy has continued his poor summer. Has not been right since the World Cup for me.

Starc on a hatrick
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:03 pm

Oh dear oh dear, 0/2 after two balls.

Lovely ball from Starc.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:07 pm

Well, hatrick avoided. Mags has a big job to do now.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:12 pm

As well as the fresh pitch, we've got an absurdly short boundary on one side, so it's one of those games where 300 minimum is required.

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Post by alfie on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:17 pm

Well I can't accept that Wood is a better bat than Surran : Sam hasn't done much good in ODI but then he hasn't played many ; he's been pretty good in Tests. Agree they might feel an extra fast man will be useful on a fresh pitch (or as fresh as this will be after all the games they've played in this odd summer) Harsh on Sam , yes ; but not too surprising.

Least of their problems at the moment after Starc's first two balls !

Definitely not the start Morgan would have been hoping for ...

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:22 pm

Yeah Roys form is an issue. Root too looks to be struggling a bit, only one half century this year in any format and 15 ODIs since he got one.

That said it does appear that in this specific case its as much Starc being Starc.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:25 pm

Wood averages 8 with the bat in ODIs and 6.5 in List A. Lets put that one to bed.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 pm

I just personally feel that Wood is a better batsman, that's all. He just seems more composed than Sam Curran . Its a personal opinion...
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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 pm

The start of a very good recovery from Mags and Bairstow here.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:41 pm

RR is absolutely fine, and I think we can see why England need a big score with boundaries this short, but 2 down at this stage is still a concern. Australia's seamers haven't been as accurate and as tight as in the previous two games, so that's a help.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:No Smith for Australia is good news for England.

Good to see Wood back but harsh on Sam Curran after last match but Wood is the superior batter and bowler.

Hmm not so convinced on the batting.

i suspect the decision was down to the pitch as much as anything else. The worn wickets maybe suited dibbly dobbler bowling a bit more than this one which should be truer but give better bounce and pace.

The summer of cricket 2020 - Page 20 Downlo11

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:44 pm

Real positive stuff from Bairstow

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Post by king_carlos on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:46 pm

This is a good recovery for England after that impressive opening burst from Starc. He really is brilliant in white ball cricket!

Good to see Bairstow coming into some form. England could really do with Buttler not having to come in until later in this innings than he has in the previous 2 ODIs.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:48 pm

Shows the difference with Englands batting on  a quicker wicket. Hazelwood was unplayable to them in the previous two games.

33/2
22/2

now 76/2 from the PP!

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Post by alfie on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:50 pm

More like the typical England power play.

Two wickets weren't in the script , mind. But the run rate is nice. They haven't had to run many...

But Zampa has struck immediately ! Morgan will be disappointed with that shot.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:51 pm

Oh Mags... steam

A gift
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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:53 pm

For the third game in a row, Zampa strikes in his first over, like a bargain basement Graeme Swann.

I think England might need something as high as 330 on this to be considered favourites, so they're a long way off, currently.

Would have preferred Billings at 5. also.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:54 pm

Think we might see a few overs of England taking the foot off the gas after that

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:57 pm

I don't think there's a great deal of debate needed for Surran being a far better batsmen than Mark Wood.

Agree with Duty that Billings would have been my preferred choice coming in at 5 in this situation.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:58 pm

I personally do not get Zampa, he has never really seemed like a good bowler to me but yet he takes important wickets and a good few of them. I really must be missing what it is that makes him so good.
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Post by alfie on Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:17 pm

Not sure why you chaps wanted Billings at five ?  I know Buttler has mislaid his run scoring the last two games ; but he's been in rare form over the previous few weeks and I don't think he needs protecting Smile

Fifty for YJB clap

Zampa has started really well...

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Post by Duty281 on Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:20 pm

I think Billings would be better at rebuilding the innings, and Buttler would be better later on to take the attack to Australia.

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Post by eirebilly on Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:23 pm

I would like to see these two take Marsh on. Early days as it is but i think Marsh is the bowler to attack.

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