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US Open 2020

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 28 Aug 2020, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

Devoid of many top players or not, the USO starts on Monday.

I know some will feel that this is a devalued Slam with so many absentees. But others might reckon there are no asterisks (*) in sport. Jan Kodes, for example, is still 1973 Wimbledon champion despite the mass boycott.

What it does mean is that Djoko looks an almost certain winner in New York this time. I would have put him as favourite even if there had been a full field of players. What does that make him now? Super-favourite, mega-favourite, a shoo-in?

The bad news for Kyle Edmund is that he could face Djoko in the second round. Murray starts against Nishioka and could later meet Dan Evans. Konta begins against Heather Watson, while Cameron Norrie has a tough one against Diego Schwartzman.

Apart from seeing how far Murray can go, probably the only interest in the men's is to see just who will emerge to play Djoko in the final. Or have I got it wrong?

The women's Slams have been unpredictable of late even when everyone turns up so gawd knows who's likely to win this time. You could argue it's all set up for Serena but I don't think anyone is afraid of her any more and each of her recent Slam final performances have been really poor.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 3:49 am

Auger--Aliassime leads 6-2 6-3. A slightly better set from Murray. Had half chance in a game but the young gun stayed strong. I do feel commentators over-egging Auger--Aliassime a little. Sure he has looked very good but Andy's sluggishness and lack of match fitness helped enhance him.
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Post by alfie Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:52 am

Andy couldn't do it twice in a row...the Canadian laddie played brilliantly though so I think he'd have been hard pressed even if he wasn't so obviously tired after that tough first match.

Murray will be disappointed he couldn't go a bit further than round two. But as a first step it hasn't been too bad.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 04 Sep 2020, 8:14 am

Well at least Murray had one good, long match and also showed his hip could stand a lengthy five-setter.

As for Dan Evans he now has to win today and try to beat F A-A tomorrow. Really tough.

Dimi - as far too often in Slams - has crashed out (people never lose in GS, they have to "crash out") in a winnable match.

Early days yet, but could there be another Djoko-Thiem final?

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 9:37 am

As I said it is all about little steps for Andy Murray on the long road back.

Over a year and a half ago his career was over due to a debilitating hip injury. After much soul-searching and against some people's advice he underwent hip surgery to have a metal hip fitted. It was a shot in the daek encouraged by the great US doubles player Bob Bryant who underwent similar surgery and returned to play tennis. From crutches and slowly beginning to put weight on his new hip through tentative walking and further resurfacing of the hip. Andy slowly began to go through the many phases to return to some sort of mobility and fitness and then regain speed and fitness to get himself court fit. A spell of playing in doubles tennis saw him venture back into tennis tentatively last summer and by Autumn he made his singles comeback. Remarkably, late last year he won the European Open beating Stan Wawrinka in the final - unheard of considering he had a metal hip.

Further injuries were to knock him back with groin and pelvic injuries ruling out any involvement in tennis earlier this year. The pandemic probably helped as it ensured he could not rush back too early. After dipping his toe in the water again in The Battle of the Brits tournament around a month and a half ago he made his return to the tennis circuit a couple of weeks ago managing to reach the Third Round beating Zverev the world No 7 on the way in the Southern and Western Open. And on into his first slam for over 18 months. He proved his heart, desire, fitness and shot array were still there beating Nishioka in five sets from two sets down but to recover from a 4 hours 39 minutes match and expect to beat a high flying youngster tipped for the top was too much to ask.

Evidently, aside from his denigrators, there is much to be pleased about in the last few weeks for Andy Murray. He is back competing on the tennis circuit and the more he plays the better he will get and the fitter he will become. Of course the glory days are a long way off at present but I reckon Andy is just delighted to be back in the fold. Welcome back Andy.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 9:51 am

As for Dan Evans, well later today he will resume his incomplete Second Round match against Moutet the volatile Frenchman. He has a game point to force a third set tie-break with him being level at one set all. For me he just needs to keep it solid and keep in the points and you feel Moutet could easily implode. The Frenchman has lightening court spped and all tge shots but can be erratic when overly aggressive.
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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 04 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

Was Murray's hip replacement against some people's advice, or was it just continuing a tennis career afterwards? I thought the hip replacement itself was for quality of life.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 11:16 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:Was Murray's hip replacement against some people's advice, or was it just continuing a tennis career afterwards? I thought the hip replacement itself was for quality of life.

For clarification the hip replacement followed by tennis career was against several people's advice - a few ex-tennis pros amongst them. I think Andy paid great attention to Bob Bryant who insisted a metal hip did not mean the end of tennis as he was proof of that. So yes the hip replacement was for quality of life to enable him to walk without pain, bend over without pain and such-like but playing professional tennis again with it was frowned upon.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 04 Sep 2020, 11:44 am

I'm still unsure what Murray is trying to achieve in his comeback. He's never going to be in the position of competing for slams again, or ascending back into the top 20 of the rankings, so is he happy putting himself through a great physical ordeal (with possibly severe long-term ramifications) just so he can grind out a few tough wins on the circuit, before losing to up-and-coming players like FAA? It doesn't seem like a good trade-off. If he were in his mid-20s maybe he could make a full and proper comeback from his injury - but he's the wrong side of 30 as far as a sportsman is concerned.

Anyway, FAA looks a tremendous prospect, one of the best young players I've seen for a while. Likely match-up against Thiem in the fourth round which could be one of the matches of the tournament.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 11:57 am

Duty281 wrote:I'm still unsure what Murray is trying to achieve in his comeback. He's never going to be in the position of competing for slams again, or ascending back into the top 20 of the rankings, so is he happy putting himself through a great physical ordeal (with possibly severe long-term ramifications) just so he can grind out a few tough wins on the circuit, before losing to up-and-coming players like FAA? It doesn't seem like a good trade-off. If he were in his mid-20s maybe he could make a full and proper comeback from his injury - but he's the wrong side of 30 as far as a sportsman is concerned.

Anyway, FAA looks a tremendous prospect, one of the best young players I've seen for a while. Likely match-up against Thiem in the fourth round which could be one of the matches of the tournament.

Throughout his tennis career and even before that he has always thrived on challenges. Many times in his life he has been told you can't do that or you won't do that but has set about proving people wrong. This hip replacement is another challenge as I said there are those that think he shouldn't be doing it. He wants to prove them wrong too. And before totally writing him off with a metal hip he already has one title in the bag with that impairment where he beat fellow slam winner Stan Wawrinka in a high quality final. Very true he probably or most likely won't win a slam again but he is on another conquest to try to prove people wrong. Plus he, like Federer, wants his kids see him play professional tennis so that is another goal I suppose. And he gets to quit at a time of his choosing - not like in Australia early in 2019. He gets a buzz from competing so who are we to deny him of that?

As for Felix Auger-Alissiame he has elements of his game that needs work. If he can do that working on movement and backhand then he will be a slam contender a few years down the line if he can also iron out serve issues.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 04 Sep 2020, 12:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'm still unsure what Murray is trying to achieve in his comeback. He's never going to be in the position of competing for slams again, or ascending back into the top 20 of the rankings, so is he happy putting himself through a great physical ordeal (with possibly severe long-term ramifications) just so he can grind out a few tough wins on the circuit, before losing to up-and-coming players like FAA? It doesn't seem like a good trade-off. If he were in his mid-20s maybe he could make a full and proper comeback from his injury - but he's the wrong side of 30 as far as a sportsman is concerned.

Anyway, FAA looks a tremendous prospect, one of the best young players I've seen for a while. Likely match-up against Thiem in the fourth round which could be one of the matches of the tournament.

I actually don't see the point in Murray playing singles, in fact it's quite sad seeing a once great player reduced to making up the numbers.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 12:57 pm

Cameron Norrie plays his first ever Third Round match in a slam and he will be favourite to win. He takes on Spaniard Alejandro Davidovich-Folina (World Ranked No 99). A win for Norrie will see him face the winner of the Adrian Mannerino/Alex Zverev match.
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Post by No name Bertie Fri 04 Sep 2020, 1:24 pm

If I had advice to give to Andy he wouldn't listen to it.

My advice was if this means so much to you stick to doubles: you get to do the tennis tour, compete in front of the crowds, your kids get to see you play competitively - all the things that has been said he wanted.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 04 Sep 2020, 4:13 pm

Might be one match too many for Norrie today, let's see.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:19 pm

Norrie up against it 7-6 2-1 down. He just hasn't fired on all fronts. He looks very tense. Fokina playing with a little more freedom and a little more relaxed.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:30 pm

Norrie breaks in the second set and leads 3-2. First set to Fokina.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:52 pm

Cameron Norrie squares it up at one set all against Fokina. 6-7 6-4. This one could go either way but I reckon if Norrie can find more consistency in his play he will have too much for the Spaniard.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 6:08 pm

And Norrie breaks early in the third set to lead 6-7 6-4 2-1.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 6:21 pm

Norrie just losing the initiative he'd gained. Fokina knits together three games on the bounce and leads 4-2 in the third set.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 6:47 pm

The wheels have fallen off for Norrie. He trails 6-7 6-4 2-6 1-3. If he loses this match I doubt he'll get a better chance to reach the 4th Round of a slam.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 6:54 pm

Cameron Norrie crashes out of the US Open against the Spaniard Davidovich-Fokina losing tamely in the end 7-6 4-6 6-2 6-1. Very disappointing. He will kick himself in the coming days and weeks.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 7:26 pm

Dan Evans has resumed his Second Round match against Moutet. And he has just lost the third set on a tie-break. Evans just needs to hang tough as Moutet can implode.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 8:30 pm

Evans out in four sets against Moutet.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 04 Sep 2020, 9:50 pm

Don't really know what happened to Norrie. 1 set all and a break up, then it was like a switch was thrown and he barely won a game after that. Poor display. His opponent was little better.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 10:02 pm

Duty281 wrote:Don't really know what happened to Norrie. 1 set all and a break up, then it was like a switch was thrown and he barely won a game after that. Poor display. His opponent was little better.

He will have nightmares. He had got a semblance of control in the third set then the wheels came off in spectacular fashion against a player ranked way lower than him and inexperienced to boot. A golden opportunity to get to the 4th Round of a slam the like of which he'll never get again.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 04 Sep 2020, 10:17 pm

Taylor Fritz on his way to beating Dennis Shapovalov it looks like.
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Post by sirfredperry Sat 05 Sep 2020, 7:36 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Taylor Fritz on his way to beating Dennis Shapovalov it looks like.

However, the Canadian fought back to win.

But that was not the biggest fight back of the evening, as Coric, who seems to specialise in ultra-long matches, came back from 5-1 down in the fourth set to take it to a 5th and ultimately beat Tsitsipas.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 8:44 am

So Soul Requiem should Norrie and Evans retire from the sport? After all they are never going to win a slam and ultimately lost to a far less accomplished player than Murray had? I would strongly argue even that one hip Murray has more chance of winning a slam just now than two hips Evans and Norrie.

No of course they shouldn't. They are professional sportsmen enjoying, no loving the challenge. It is their livelihood and they alone decide when it is time to quit.
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:06 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:So Soul Requiem should Norrie and Evans retire from the sport? After all they are never going to win a slam and ultimately lost to a far less accomplished player than Murray had? I would strongly argue even that one hip Murray has more chance of winning a slam just now than two hips Evans and Norrie.

No of course they shouldn't. They are professional sportsmen enjoying, no loving the challenge. It is their livelihood and they alone decide when it is time to quit.

Completely different situations as you well know Craig, you might enjoy watching a once supreme athlete now reduced to being incapable of going deep at a grand slam but I do not.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:14 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:So Soul Requiem should Norrie and Evans retire from the sport? After all they are never going to win a slam and ultimately lost to a far less accomplished player than Murray had? I would strongly argue even that one hip Murray has more chance of winning a slam just now than two hips Evans and Norrie.

No of course they shouldn't. They are professional sportsmen enjoying, no loving the challenge. It is their livelihood and they alone decide when it is time to quit.

Completely different situations as you well know Craig, you might enjoy watching a once supreme athlete now reduced to being incapable of going deep at a grand slam but I do not.

Perspective. You need to get some.

You are forgetting big pertinent facts here and not willing to make allowances. Murray was playing in his first slam for over 18 months. Only his second tour tournment in almost a year where fitness training etc to the necessary degree has not been possible due to COVID-19. Murray loses a Second Round match against a player tipped for the top two days after a match nearer five hours than four hours and you use that as a basis for he should retire. Give me a break eh?

In physical sport such as tennis you cannot waltz in and out of the sport after so long out and expect to be just as competitive immediately. I would have thought even you would concede that.
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:31 am

I'm not forgetting anything I am merely stating MY opinion. I actually originally stated that opinion during the first round not the second so best to argue the point at hand not create an issue.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:33 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I'm not forgetting anything I am merely stating MY opinion. I actually originally stated that opinion during the first round not the second so best to argue the point at hand not create an issue.

So you are saying being off the tour for 10 months and out of slam tennis for over 18 months should have no impact on a player's match and tournament fitness and rust??
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Post by alfie Sat 05 Sep 2020, 11:12 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:So Soul Requiem should Norrie and Evans retire from the sport? After all they are never going to win a slam and ultimately lost to a far less accomplished player than Murray had? I would strongly argue even that one hip Murray has more chance of winning a slam just now than two hips Evans and Norrie.

No of course they shouldn't. They are professional sportsmen enjoying, no loving the challenge. It is their livelihood and they alone decide when it is time to quit.

Completely different situations as you well know Craig, you might enjoy watching a once supreme athlete now reduced to being incapable of going deep at a grand slam but I do not.

Not really about you though , is it , Soul ?

I can appreciate you might not enjoy seeing Murray struggling by comparison with past displays ; but surely if Andy himself wants to play on that is his business ?

There is a difference between stating what we as fans might want to see and presuming to judge that a sportsman should retire just because we don't think he's living up to our armchair preferred programme.

I don't know how far Murray can get in his comeback ; but - although I'd much prefer to see him again mixing it with Djokovic & co - I can still enjoy watching him battle it out as he did the other night. And will be fascinated to see what he can do when he has a bit more match experience under his belt. You don't actually have to watch if you don't want to...

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 11:27 am

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:So Soul Requiem should Norrie and Evans retire from the sport? After all they are never going to win a slam and ultimately lost to a far less accomplished player than Murray had? I would strongly argue even that one hip Murray has more chance of winning a slam just now than two hips Evans and Norrie.

No of course they shouldn't. They are professional sportsmen enjoying, no loving the challenge. It is their livelihood and they alone decide when it is time to quit.

Completely different situations as you well know Craig, you might enjoy watching a once supreme athlete now reduced to being incapable of going deep at a grand slam but I do not.

Not really about you though , is it , Soul ?

I can appreciate you might not enjoy seeing Murray struggling by comparison with past displays ; but surely if Andy himself wants to play on that is his business ?

There is a difference between stating what we as fans might want to see and presuming to judge that a sportsman should retire just because we don't think he's living up to our armchair preferred programme.

I don't know how far Murray can get in his comeback ; but - although I'd much prefer to see him again mixing it with Djokovic & co - I can still enjoy watching him battle it out as he did the other night. And will be fascinated to see what he can do when he has a bit more match experience under his belt.  You don't actually have to watch if you don't want to...

Spot on alfie.

And lets face it - in the UK his comeback win in five sets was the most noteworthy story reported on British TV with regards the US Open so far.

I am not for one minute presuming Andy will waltz back into slam winning form or competitiveness - that takes time. He has been back in the sport at the top level for two weeks and we have calls for him to retire after he has beaten a world No 7 and won a five set match coming from two sets down. Both positives. Bizarre.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 11:50 am

A comfortable win for Novak Djokovic I see against Struff. At present he is on course to meet Alex Zverev in the semi-finals and Dominic Thiem in the final.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 05 Sep 2020, 12:26 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Taylor Fritz on his way to beating Dennis Shapovalov it looks like.

However, the Canadian fought back to win.

But that was not the biggest fight back of the evening, as Coric, who seems to specialise in ultra-long matches, came back from 5-1 down in the fourth set to take it to a 5th and ultimately beat Tsitsipas.

Goodness, had to save six match points as well.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 05 Sep 2020, 2:02 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I'm not forgetting anything I am merely stating MY opinion. I actually originally stated that opinion during the first round not the second so best to argue the point at hand not create an issue.

So you are saying being off the tour for 10 months and out of slam tennis for over 18 months should have no impact on a player's match and tournament fitness and rust??

You can make all the excuses you want Craig but there have been enough setbacks in his comeback to make it pretty obvious this is now his level. If you want to watch him struggle through meaningless matches that is your choice but for me it's a waste of his time, my personal opinion.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 3:35 pm

Excuses? Give me a break. Fact. And his comeback has been on for two weeks. If you call, in that time, beating a world No 7 and coming from two sets down to win a five set match setting a record in the process as setbacks then you obviously are on the wind-up.

Anyway for me the match of the day today will be on Court 17 where Felix Auger-Alissiame takes on volatile Frenchman Corentin Moutet. Both young and attacking players.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 8:29 pm

Pospisil and Bautista-Agut going all the way. About to start the fifth set after 3 hours. Dan Medvedev through comfortably in straight sets. Getting under way soon my match of the day - Auger Alissiame against Moutet.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:10 pm

Pospisil through in five sets. Serena Williams looks set to beat Sloane Stephens in three sets. Alissiame off to a flyer 3-0 up on Moutet.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:35 pm

Brutal stuff. Auger- Aliassime wins the first set 6-1. Serena Williams through to the 4th Round.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:50 pm

Fucsovics suffering from his marathon match against Dimitrov toe days ago. He trails Tiafoe 4-1. Auger-Aliassime continues to steamroller Moutet. He leads 6-1 4-0.
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Post by sirfredperry Sun 06 Sep 2020, 8:20 am

Canadian fans must be thrilled with three of their men into the 4th round.

Still think it will be a Djoko-Thiem final, although Dominic has the tougher path of the two.

This looks as if it is one of the younger-aged last 16s we've had in a Slam for some time, with three of the 30-something Big Four not making it for various reasons.

In the women's, I wonder if Azashrieker can relive past glories. She'll probably have to get past Kenin, though.

Serena seems to have no problem getting to GS finals of late - it's winning the last match that appears beyond her.

There are still six GS champions left in the women's as opposed to, er...one in the men's.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 06 Sep 2020, 9:16 am

Thiem has to be careful not to get locked in long matches. If he is to meet Novak in the final he needs to do so as fresh as possible. At present he has managed to do that. Another little boost he may get is that Djoko may get to the final without having been really tested.
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Post by MrInvisible Sun 06 Sep 2020, 11:18 am

So here's the 4th round line-ups:

Djokovic v Carreno Busta
Shapovalov v Goffin
Coric v Thompson
Davidovich Fokina v Zverev

Berrettini v Rublev
Tiafoe v Medvedev
Pospisil v De Minaur
Auger Aliassime v Thiem

(WTA)
Brady v Kerber
Putintseva v Martic
Osaka v Kontaveit
Rogers v Kvitova

Cornet v Pironkova
Sakkari v Williams
Azarenka v Muchova
Mertens v Kenin


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Post by MrInvisible Sun 06 Sep 2020, 11:30 am

Looking at that mens' draw again I feel Medvedev may be a better bet to reach the final than Thiem - got a feeling Felix A-A may upset Thiem - the young Canadian is in hot form and playing with a lot of confidence.

In the top half I'd be v surprised if it's not Djokovic v Zverev. If it is indeed that semi-final, it's time for Zverev to step up and win these sorts of matches. Surprisingly they've only played 5 matches, but Zverev has won two of those so clearly has the game when on form to trouble Djokovic. Zverev has clearly delivered at Masters level on different surfaces but what is lacking so far is the big win at business end of a slam against the top players. In all likelihood though I think we're looking at a Djokovic v Medvedev final.

In the womens' we have a pretty balanced draw - 3 slam champions in each half. I've no idea how Osaka is playing and if she's in the right mood this time. If she is, and is firing down those big serves regularly she'll take some beating. If not, I predict a Kvitova v Serena final.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 06 Sep 2020, 12:28 pm

MrInvisible wrote:Looking at that mens' draw again I feel Medvedev may be a better bet to reach the final than Thiem - got a feeling Felix A-A may upset Thiem - the young Canadian is in hot form and playing with a lot of confidence.  

In the top half I'd be v surprised if it's not Djokovic v Zverev.  If it is indeed that semi-final, it's time for Zverev to step up and win these sorts of matches.  Surprisingly they've only played 5 matches, but Zverev has won two of those so clearly has the game when on form to trouble Djokovic.  Zverev has clearly delivered at Masters level on different surfaces but what is lacking so far is the big win at business end of a slam against the top players.  In all likelihood though I think we're looking at a Djokovic v Medvedev final.

In the womens' we have a pretty balanced draw - 3 slam champions in each half.  I've no idea how Osaka is playing and if she's in the right mood this time.  If she is, and is firing down those big serves regularly she'll take some beating.  If not, I predict a Kvitova v Serena final.

Very good point about Medvedev. He has come through very quietly and has shown he can go very deep in slams. A dark horse indeed. I am interested to see how Auger-Alissiame fairs when he is put under pressure in a set/match.
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Post by sirfredperry Sun 06 Sep 2020, 6:31 pm

Well, one of those former Slam champions is already out, with Kerber losing heavily to Jennifer Brady.

Zverev is a set up against D-Fokina while Putintseva leads Martic by one set to love.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 06 Sep 2020, 6:34 pm

Zverev should win that in straight sets I would have thought. Djokovic on in the next hour to play Carreno-Busta - should be straight-forward too.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 06 Sep 2020, 7:02 pm

Zverev leads Davidovich-Fokina 6-2 6-2.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 06 Sep 2020, 7:38 pm

And Zverev does win in straight sets 6-2 6-2 6-1.
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