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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 pt 2

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 2:18 pm


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Sep 2020, 8:52 pm

Happy to view them when you add the links. You'll struggle though as they dont exist.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 1:07 am

Listening to some of the podcast reactions to Farrell's tackle, it's striking no-one disputes how bad it was. Most of the argument seem to be to over the level of character assassination it has unleashed.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 12:08 pm

Leicester Tigers wrote:Steve Borthwick has named the Leicester Tigers line-up to face Wasps at the Ricoh Arena in Round 19 of the 2019/20 Gallagher Premiership.

Ellis Genge will captain the club for the first time on Wednesday evening, in the loosehead prop’s 74th appearance for the club.

Cameron Henderson makes his first starting appearance at lock, after arriving at the club in the summer, and will partner Blake Enever in the second row.

In the back row, Ollie Chessum is named at blindside flanker, Thom Smith at openside and Jordan Coghlan at No8.

Smith is one of two vice-captains for the Round 19 fixture alongside scrum-half Ben White.

Zack Henry starts at fly-half in his fourth appearance for Tigers, partnering White as half-backs.

Guy Porter is included at centre alongside Dan Kelly – in his first start – with Harry Simmons and Harry Potter on the wins and George Worth at full-back.

Charlie Clare, Facundo Gigena and Joe Heyes are the front-row cover on the bench, with Harry Wells and Sam Lewis included as fellow forwards. Ben Youngs, Johnny McPhillips and Andrew Forsyth provide backline cover.

Speaking about the matchday squad named, Borthwick said: “With a short turnaround, we have made changes and provided opportunities for some players who did not feature against Sale.”

“Ellis will captain the club for the first time and has been brilliant in the build-up this week, leading the group.

“This group of players have earned the privilege of representing the club on Wednesday and, with all Tigers teams, need to deliver a performance the club and our supporters are proud of.”

Looking ahead to the game against Wasps, Borthwick added: “They are a side that have shown good form since the season resumed and we are looking forward to the opportunity of coming up against them.”

“We have made strong steps on this journey so far and need to continue progressing as a group, every game and every day at training.”

TIGERS XV

15 George Worth
14 Harry Potter
13 Dan Kelly
12 Guy Porter
11 Harry Simmons
10 Zack Henry
9 Ben White (vc)
1 Ellis Genge (c)
2 Jake Kerr
3 Nephi Leatigaga
4 Cameron Henderson
5 Blake Enever
6 Ollie Chessum
7 Thom Smith (vc)
8 Jordan Coghlan

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare
17 Facundo Gigena
18 Joe Heyes
19 Harry Wells
20 Sam Lewis
21 Ben Youngs
22 Johnny McPhillips
23 Andrew Forsyth

Good to see Sam Lewis finally fit, and interested to see what Dan Kelly has to offer.

Oh and in case no-one noticed:

Ellis Genge is Captain!!!!

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 12:26 pm

I was honestly expecting the side tomorrow to feature basically none of the 23 that played Sale so I'm actually happy with the balance of Genge, Leatigaga, White and Henry being involved. Also Gigena, Heyes, Wells and Lenny on the bench.

Picking such weak sides still frustrates me but now they've committed to it there's not much choice. Hopefully the performances in the games against Saints and Castres that they seem to be targeting justify the decision to field weaker teams for games deemed less important.

Dan Kelly is very talented so excited to see what he can do. I also hope Harry Simmons has a good game. He's very talented but injury/illness stunted his development a bit, I really hope he doesn't slip out of rugby.

Thom Smith, Cam Henderson and Ollie Chessum have all impressed in their appearances so far. Hopefully they continue to do so. I wonder who will be calling the lineout? All three of Enever, Henderson and Chessum are capable but Henderson would probably be my choice given I think he can have a positive impact with the senior side next season.

The names that sticks out are Worth (due to inclusion), Olowofela and Hardwick (both due to absence). Those three have struggled since the season restarted. I'm a fan of Olowofela and Hardwick but they haven't shown much whilst transitioning to senior rugby yet. Worth I have never been convinced with at fullback but do think he can perform a role as a squad player covering centre. Tigers have made good signings in the positions all three cover though, plus there are development squad players challenging as well now.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 1:07 pm

Got to disagree on Hardwick I think he's got something about him, the issue I think he's had is that he doesn't get to play in strong teams he's nearly always in the international cover side when the England contingent are away. He's shown he's a great kicker off the tee but he needs to show more leadership particularly when leading the defensive line. Given he came off early against Glaws could it be that, that was more due to injury than tactics as was believed at the time.

Owolfela is quickly running out of opportunities, he needs confidence and to start looking for work. When the Championship starts up I think he'll be out on loan to probably Nottingham to get his mojo back.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 1:29 pm

Wasps have named a pretty strong side:
1 West
2 Oghre
3 Brookes
4 Launchbury
5 Gaskell
6 Barbaery
7 Young
8 Shields
9 Robson
10 Umaga
11 Watson
12 Mills
13 Fekitoa
14 Kibririge
15 Minozzi

Cruse, Mcintyre, Toomaga-Allen, Douglas, J Willis, Wolstenholme, Gopperth, Spink

Pretty much only hooker, 6 and 12 weakened. At least you avoid Willis until the 2nd half!

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 1:38 pm

Expecting things to get ugly in the first half again. Wasps are a worse side without Gopperth on the field but Mills is a good replacement, Fekitoa will cause the young centre pairing plenty of issues. Particularly given that Guy Porter is more of a 13 than 12.

Gaskell is the only Wasps lineout jumper of note so hopefully Henderson and Chessum can acquit themselves well in attack and defence.

I'd expect Genge and Leatigaga to have Brookes and West on toast at the scrum.

No idea how the captaincy will effect Gengey. It might focus him, it might be too much. He's frustrated me since the restart to be honest. Running laterally and not looking after the ball in contact. He did grow into the game against Sale as it went on though running a lot straighter and making yards. His scrummaging has remained dominant. It is sometimes a side of his game that gets overlooked given the eye catching carrying.

Tigers academy grad Umaga against the impressive Henry will be a good matchup from a game management perspective.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 1:56 pm

Saints seem to have given up, a very inexperienced side picked to play Bristol.

15 Tommy Freeman
14 Ryan Olowofela
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Piers Francis
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro
10 James Grayson
9 Tom James

1 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Ehren Painter
4 Alex Moon
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Shaun Adendorff

Replacements:
16 Reece Marshall
17 Nick Auterac
18 Karl Garside
19 Lewis Bean
20 Tui Uru
21 Henry Taylor
22 Reuben Bird-Tulloch
23 Josh Gillespie

Got to feel for Harry Mallinder, works hard through a bad injury in the first part of the season, gets himself really fit in lock down, starts the warm ups well and then gets injured again before he can play in the remainder part of the season.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 2:26 pm

What are your views on Ryan Olowofela out of interest WPI?

Jordan seems to have stalled a bit at Tigers after looking like an excellent prospect at age grade. Ryan seems to have benefited from the Sevens circuit, I was impressed with him last weekend but haven't watched many of his Saints appearances through in full, tending to catch the highlights more.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 2:50 pm

WPI & KC,

It is tricky when trying to select sides in this tailend of te season with the playing time rules that were put in place, especially around these midweek games. Saints have probably mixed and matched their sides more than most and that has not worked out for them. Once you go down a certain path it is hard to change course with the enforced rest periods. Tigers seem to be trying to ensure they get the best 23 fit and available for the Castres game, which has meant some pretty weak sides being put out.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 2:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wasps have named a pretty strong side:

6 Barbaery

Pretty much only hooker, 6 and 12 weakened. At least you avoid Willis until the 2nd half!

Is that Alfie Barbeary, the hooker, at 6?

So far Willis has been pretty poor in games against us. As I tend not to watch so many TV matches during "regular" seasons, this has been my main exposure to him, hence why my rating of his all round skill is well below most other posters.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

Yeah. First start. Didnt realise he was a hooker.

I'm the opposite lt cant day o remember him playing against tigers but hes been the absolute standout since we're back playing.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 08 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

Saints are blessed with wingers /full backs at the moment, Ryan has been okay. As good as any of the others but that is not saying a lot as Saints have struggled at the breakdown and the back generally seem to have met last week for the first time, very uncoordinated. He has made some good runs and shown some fast feet, but defensively looks a bit like a rabbit in the headlights.

I would like to see him looking for the ball a lot more like Collins does.

What I really want to see is "best" available side put out, this running two sides has been a disaster as neither of them seems strong enough to win a game. Players like Naiyaravoro, who are game changers are hardly getting game time

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Post by TJ on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 12:37 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Listening to some of the podcast reactions to Farrell's tackle, it's striking no-one disputes how bad it was. Most of the argument seem to be to over the level of character assassination it has unleashed.

Fair outcome from the hearing


Last edited by TJ on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 12:42 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints are blessed with wingers /full backs at the moment, Ryan has been okay. As good as any of the others but that is not saying a lot as Saints have struggled at the breakdown and the back generally seem to have met last week for the first time, very uncoordinated. He has made some good runs and shown some fast feet, but defensively looks a bit like a rabbit in the headlights.

I would like to see him looking for the ball a lot more like Collins does.

What I really want to see is "best" available side put out, this running two sides has been a disaster as neither of them seems strong enough to win a game. Players like Naiyaravoro, who are game changers are hardly getting game time

Cheers, WPI. Interesting to hear. Similar to how Jordan has been in his better games for Tigers. I've still hopes that Jordan can kick on but this season seemed an ideal opportunity for him to take hold of starting berth and he hasn't really shone.

With regards to selection I think it depends on what a club is aiming for. At the restart Saints would have been hoping to challenge for that final playoff place so results are more of a priority. For Tigers I'd have much preferred to see more of a balance and the younger players learning from the more senior guys. The only game we've won has predictably been London Irish at home, in a poor performance still, so it hardly feels like targeting certain game with the first XV has payed off yet. Hopefully that can change against Saints and Castres.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 1:25 pm

Farrell issued a 10 week ban, reduced to 5 because he’s a top notch geeza Smile.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 7:06 pm

Decent cameo from willis. Some good carrying this game.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 7:29 pm

How good was Alfie Barbeary tonight! Wasps are well stocked with back rowers although I know he plays hooker to.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 7:32 pm

Alex Shaw on Twitter knows a fair bit about age group rugby, and has been banging on about Barbeary for a long time. Today he's labelled him "probably the best u18s played I've ever seen"!!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 8:04 pm

Has he been converted from hooker or is it just a case of introducing him without the stress of throwing and the grind of having to scrum?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 8:44 pm

How good were Radrada and Bristol yesterday though? Albeit, against Saints 2nds, which someone won't be too pleased about.

I'm looking forward to seeing what time we put out at Ashton Gate and how it copes.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 8:52 pm

Barbeary is a hooker. Just covering back row because Wasps don't have many back rows in the senior squad. He's an exceptional young player.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:15 pm

king_carlos wrote:Barbeary is a hooker. Just covering back row because Wasps don't have many back rows in the senior squad. He's an exceptional young player.

From the Beeb report

Wasps head coach Lee Blackett:

"Alfie [Balbeary] had an outstanding second half.

"As an out-and-out rugby player, he's pretty good. He's a big project and he's nowhere near the finished article.

"There are plenty of areas of his game he needs to keep working on.

"We're trying to manage him by picking him in the back row.

"He's a young kid and it takes time to come through in the front row positions, but we'll keep working on the hooker side of his game."

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Post by BamBam on Wed 09 Sep 2020, 11:22 pm

Makes sense, and pretty good management, as long as they give him enough time at hooker too! Those core skills will only be truly tested in games, training isn't enough

God I sound like beshocked

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 7:52 am

Lol. No you don't Bam. He'd already be talking him down and will have mentioned it's a huge scar on Jones management that George has the record number of sub appearances before a start! Sure hes banging the drum for LCD now somewhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/sep/09/wasps-leicester-premiership-match-report

I know it's a little hard to tell with the mismatch lineups but Blackett is quietly doing a rather good job. As is Hooper.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 8:07 am

Yeah he could be pretty special if he gets the core front row skills right.

We've heard an awful lot about him and seen the footage.

But this is the big league now..and we've seen so many superstars at the age grades fail to make a scratch at this level...

Fingers crossed.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 10:07 am

lostinwales wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Barbeary is a hooker. Just covering back row because Wasps don't have many back rows in the senior squad. He's an exceptional young player.

From the Beeb report

Wasps head coach Lee Blackett:

"Alfie [Balbeary] had an outstanding second half.

"As an out-and-out rugby player, he's pretty good. He's a big project and he's nowhere near the finished article.

"There are plenty of areas of his game he needs to keep working on.

"We're trying to manage him by picking him in the back row.

"He's a young kid and it takes time to come through in the front row positions, but we'll keep working on the hooker side of his game."

That's just great player management from Wasps.

Unlike the management of Tigers' young players, who were are putting out to slaughter every other game.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Sep 2020, 8:26 pm

Balbeary got all the plaudits, but I thought Thomas Young had an outstanding game too. I really wouldn't mind him coming home but it means we'd have to offload some No.7's elsewhere first. Young looks like he's in our top 5 open-sides.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 11 Sep 2020, 1:37 pm

15 Freddie Steward

14 Kini Murimurivalu

13 Guy Porter

12 Matt Scott

11 Nemani Nadolo

10 Zack Henry

9 Ben Youngs (vc)

1 Facundo Gigena

2 Tom Youngs (c)

3 Dan Cole (vc)

4 Tomás Lavanini

5 Calum Green

6 Harry Wells

7 Luke Wallace

8 Hanro Liebenberg

Replacements:

16 Charlie Clare

17 Ellis Genge

18 Nephi Leatigaga

19 Thom Smith

20 Jordan Taufua

21 Ben White

22 Johnny McPhillips

23 Harry Potter

Ford and Reffell not considered due to injury.

Really happy that Porter is starting in a stronger backline. Good that Murimurivalu is involved so quickly too. That's a really good looking Tigers back three. With Steward just breaking through 10-15 are basically new Tigers players as far as the senior side goes.

Genge, Leatigaga and Taufua is some big ball carrying to bring on too.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 11 Sep 2020, 1:42 pm

Saints look strong on the pitch but the bench isn't quite as impressive if we can keep it competitive hopefully we can finish strong and scrape a much needed victory.

Very much like that back three.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 11 Sep 2020, 2:19 pm

Taufua primed to come on and lead the second half 3 try surge from Tigers that builds hope before Saints nip a try at the end.

There's just the small concern that Saints already had a TBP and 30 point lead at half time to worry about now...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 12:44 pm

Painful for Bristol at the moment. 3 tries conceded and 1 butchered themselves.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 12:51 pm

And a bonus point within 20 min.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 12:55 pm

Looks like my 31 point margin prediction on Superbru is at risk of being exceeded by more than 15 denying me a bonus point again ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 1:00 pm

I know its weakened teams etc but Blackett really has turned wasps around.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 1:04 pm

Yep Wasps looking pretty good at the moment ... even their 2nd string teams have got some good wins.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 1:18 pm

Gopperth being fit has made a huge difference for Wasps. Mills joining could be important too. Sopoaga and Umaga are talented fly-halves but need a good decision maker/playmaker at 12 to see the best out of them. Gopperth is one of the best at performing that role from 12 and Mills is very good at it too.

Robson being fit and Minozzi settling as well.

There's a lot of talent in that squad and Blackett is doing a good job with it.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 1:23 pm

Bristol making a bit more of a fight of it as Wasps switched off for a bit but expect Wasps to pull away again in the 2nd half.

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Post by lostinwales on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 3:47 pm

Leicester are going to lose again aren't they

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 13 Sep 2020, 4:18 pm

lostinwales wrote:Leicester are going to lose again aren't they

No but we did our best. Discipline was awful and kept Saints in the game. If we'd been playing a team able to string some phases together we'd have been in trouble. 

Eddie Jones will have been carefully removing Furbank's name from the EPS squad as he had an absolute shocker. Mitchell looks like a possible successor to Ben Youngs though so at least one positive for Saints. Mitchell really kept Saints in the game at times he played really well, Taylor looked decent off the bench for Saints as well as White did for Tigers.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 8:40 am

Another strong bonus point away win for Bath against a full strength Sale side. Some of those SA forwards for Sale are fearsome.
The Bath secret seems to be our half backs are in top form with Spencer bringing the best out of Priestland and Joseph putting in some classy finishes.
Gloucester at home and Sarries away are the two final fixtures, which on paper look a tougher run-in than others in the top five but destiny is now in their hands for the play-offs.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 9:39 am

Definitely a different Bath team to the one I've seen previously. The rugby in the Premiership is of a very high standard at the moment.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:23 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Definitely a different Bath team to the one I've seen previously. The rugby in the Premiership is of a very high standard at the moment.

Hate to say it but could very well be due in part to players being managed better and being fresher.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:24 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Definitely a different Bath team to the one I've seen previously. The rugby in the Premiership is of a very high standard at the moment.

Hate to say it but could very well be due in part to players being managed better and being fresher.

Do you reckon having those many months off has made them 'fresher'?
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:26 am

Doubt it. Most will have been trying not to put on 2 stone while in lock down. Not having to line up every week though looks to have its benefits. Perhaps we will see more trust in youth from some clubs as a result.

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Post by PhilBB on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt it. Most will have been trying not to put on 2 stone while in lock down. Not having to line up every week though looks to have its benefits. Perhaps we will see more trust in youth from some clubs as a result.

Ok. So 5 months off doesn't makes players fresher.
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Post by PhilBB on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:40 am

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-31005093.html

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:52 am

Premiership teams have been playing two games per week, albeit with some squad rotation. Given the intensity of these matches, I'm not sure they'd still be as fresh. The time off has prolonged the careers of some players though it seems, Phil Dollman for example. I think it would be worth Exeter keeping him on for another year.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 10:54 am

The end of this Premiership season has thrown up a number of factors that have skewed some games;

The top eight teams are pretty much decided for next season's one-off Euro competitions meaning second teams are used to play away fixtures;
Relegation factor already decided;
Mid week league games condensing the season to enable Euro and Test fixtures elbow room in the season, means rotation is inevitable;
Smaller squad sizes due to Covid impacted finances;
Majority of teams (not Sale) have used CVC money to invest more into Academies and hoovering up the best Championship players, where budgets have also been slashed.

The only real competitive element is the top four finish where four teams are vying for second and third places, to avoid fourth and an away fixture at Sandy Park or missing out entirely.

The top players will be jaded or in bits after this farcical Test competition and then straight into next season's Euro fixtures.
The Saracens players must hardly be able to believe their luck......

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 14 Sep 2020, 11:07 am

Lol. Yes I'm sure Saracens will be thanking their lucky stars they've finally been caught!

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