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Pro 12 plus maybe Friends 20/21

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Post by Brendan Sat 19 Sep 2020, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

As one season finishes it seems the new one seems to start sooner each year.  Here is the breakdown of teams over the last three years. Places (based on league points) and points are order 19/20, 18/19, 17/18

Leinster (Champions and clearly the team to beat)
Place 1, 3, 2, Average 2
Points 69, 76, 70 total 215
Always have finished top of their conference and winners for the last three years
Goal - Win, anything else is failure

Munster
Place 3, 2, 4 Average 3
Points 51, 77, 69 Total 197
Yet another table where Munster fall short yet again.  Each of the last three years have been knocked out by Leinster
Goal - Top Conference (2nd in league) to finally avoid Leinster in the playoffs to make the final

Glasgow
Place 7, 1, 1 Average 3
Points 38, 81, 76 Total 195
Was this year a WC hangover or is it the start of the slide back to the chasing pack.  Losing key players is taking it's toll. No longer the best team in Scotland.
Goal - Win back dominance in Scotland

Ulster
Place 4, 4, 6 Average 4.33
Points 44, 63, 62 Total 169
Improving each year and seem like one of the teams to challange Leinster.
Goal - Get back to the final

Scarlets
Place 4, 9, 3 Average 5.33
Points 47, 52, 70 Total 169
Last year killed them but on their day a match of anyone. Best team usually in Wales.
Goal - make the final

Edinburgh
Place 2, 10, 5 Average 5.66
Total 51, 51, 68 Total 170
Like Scarlets last year killed them.  Have conquered Scotland and have one of the best coaches in the league.  Possibly the 2nd best team for next season if Cockers has cracked rotation.
Goal - make the final

Connacht
Place 6, 5, 10 Average 7
Points 40, 61, 39 Total 140
Excluding the first year under Keane have been playoff contenders each year.  But they need to push on and not just be happy fighting for a playoff sport.
Have to push for Top 4

Benetton
Place 8, 7, 7 Average 7.33
Points 36, 57, 55 Total 148
Consistency has got them middle of the table which is a good place to build from rather than just the place to stay.
Goal - time to push for Top 6

Blues
Place 9, 8, 8 Average  8.33
Points 33, 54, 54 Total 141
Again consistent in their place but have fallen down and past by their peers.  Have to be looking over their shoulders at Dragons and Zebre.
Goal - time to get above 8th.

Ospreys
Place 12, 6, 9 Average 9
Points 17, 58, 54 Total 119
Which year was the anomaly, when they finished 6th or 12th.  An old team who live on past glories. Last year 6th may have been down to the drop in form of Scarlets and Edinburgh.
Goal - stop the rot

Dragons
Place 10, 11, 12 Average 11
Points 24, 26, 20 Total 70
Slowly improving.  No longer unable to win away from home and building nicely.
Goal - has to be 9th

Zebre
Place 11, 12, 11 Average 11.33
Points 21, 19, 36 Total 76
Have alot of young players coming through.  Last year wasn't great but the other two were improvements on previous years.
Goal - Finished 10th and pick up some big wins.


Last edited by Brendan on Mon 21 Sep 2020, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:51 pm

TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some  

Where-as we are totally fed up of the Scottish whinging.

No we don't.

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Post by TJ Thu 29 Oct 2020, 4:54 pm

read the wales on line analysis and all the rest of it. there is no doubt at all that the welsh regions have similar playing budgets to all bar leinster and more than some ie the Italians and SA teams.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:04 pm

Similar? You said as much. Which is it?

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Post by TJ Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:17 pm

Dragons £4.8m, Cardiff Blues £5.9m, Ospreys £6.4m, Scarlets £7.7m. Glasgow operate on around £6.5m and Edinburgh £6m

Fromt hat wales on line analysis. It matches all other analysis including that which I have done and no one on here has ever been able to throw any realistic doubt on those numbers

So i am sorry - its a simple fact that the welsh teams are not disadvantaged finacially bar the dragons

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 29 Oct 2020, 5:25 pm

Considerable difference for 2, surprised Ospreys is that much. Already knew Scarlets were in line with English teams, without the marquee players.

So it is a fact that 2 are at a considerable disadvantage.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 29 Oct 2020, 6:44 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
profitius wrote:A win for munster tonight will mean 11 wins from 12 for the Irish provinces.

League's been stitched up, that's why.

Oh, check out the commentary on this btw. While it doesn't directly impact results it was one of the things mentioned a few weeks back with regard to Irish bias/how dispirited Welsh supporters are with Pro14 broadcasting given its status on a non entity subscription service.

Blues carve up Munster; apathy.

Munster finally score a decent try that isn't a Schmidt-screaming 1 yard wonder; comms go mental.

Terrible product. Biased and terrible.

Check out the commentary on this, btw.  

Edinburgh score a few good tries - Scottish comms go mental.
Connacht score tries - comms are complimentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdFpaJnlHQo

Or this one.  Ospreys v Glasgow.  

Glasgow score tries - apathy.
Ospreys score tries - Welsh comms go mental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uPd0gSqUL0


Or there's this one from Zebre vs Cardiff Blues

Zebre - apathy
Cardiff - delirious.

Welsh comms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I2yjtROwd4

Or this one.

Scarlets v Munster

Munster - apathy - same old, same old
Scarlets - wild enthusiasm from the err Welsh comms team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpvV0Ml0Bk


Wonder what the common theme here is?  Anyone, Anyone?  Bueller?


Last edited by Pot Hale on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kingshu Thu 29 Oct 2020, 7:18 pm

TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

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Post by Old Man Thu 29 Oct 2020, 7:29 pm

Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:19 pm

Old Man wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

That is the exact reason that Cheetahs and Kings have been dropped and SARU need to enter competitive teams - and have four of them.
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Post by TJ Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:45 pm

I have no issue with how the end of the pro 14 worked out. Yes it was less than ideal but we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I would happily have just given the title to Leinster - they were clearly the best team.


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Post by Old Man Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:46 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

That is the exact reason that Cheetahs and Kings have been dropped and SARU need to enter competitive teams - and have four of them.  

No, please no.

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Post by Kingshu Fri 30 Oct 2020, 1:35 pm

TJ wrote:I have no issue with how the end of the pro 14 worked out. Yes it was less than ideal but we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I would happily have just given the title to Leinster - they were clearly the best team.


It wasnt about the way it did work out as needs must, but the question was how it could have worked out with Cheetahs getting a playoff place at Glasgows expense haveing two very easy games compared to Glasgow haveing two very difficult games?

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Post by Kingshu Fri 30 Oct 2020, 1:37 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

That is the exact reason that Cheetahs and Kings have been dropped and SARU need to enter competitive teams - and have four of them.

Same thing could happen with Benetton having two games against Zebre and say Connacht playing Leinster and Ulster instead. Not exactly fair on Connacht.

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Post by Pot Hale Fri 30 Oct 2020, 2:10 pm

Kingshu wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

That is the exact reason that Cheetahs and Kings have been dropped and SARU need to enter competitive teams - and have four of them.  

Same thing could happen with Benetton having two games against Zebre and say Connacht playing Leinster and Ulster instead. Not exactly fair on Connacht.

Really? What were the results of those games last time out?
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Post by Kingshu Fri 30 Oct 2020, 3:34 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
TJ wrote:There is no bias and I for one am totally fed up with the welsh whinging

You have as much money to play with as anyone else ( Bar leinster) and more than some

there is no stuctural bias against the welsh

There is no structural bias towards the Irish

Stop blaming others and look in the mirror.  

The Scottish posters don't get bogged into the never ending debates. I was wondering if Scottish fans would have had a complaint about the Pro 14 last season.

If the season had played out, cheetahs with their run of home games would have been favourites to pinch the 3rd place play off spot from Glasgow.

Would Glasgow or Scottish fans have been happy to have a playoff spot nipped from them by a point or 2, when the team that stole it played 2 extra games against Southern Kings (worst team in conf B and the league) while instead Glasgow played two games against Edinburgh instead (top team in Conference B)?

I think if I had been a Glasgow fan, and that happened, I would have been raging. I don't like the structure of the Pro 14, it creates imbalances and that alienates fans.

And that is the exact reason why conference structured tournaments don’t have credibility, and the exact reason why I don’t want SARU to join another conference structured league.

That is the exact reason that Cheetahs and Kings have been dropped and SARU need to enter competitive teams - and have four of them.  

Same thing could happen with Benetton having two games against Zebre and say Connacht playing Leinster and Ulster instead. Not exactly fair on Connacht.

Really? What were the results of those games last time out?

So you think playing Zebre twice is equal to playing Ulster and Leinster?
I know which 2 games I'd rather my team play.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 30 Oct 2020, 4:11 pm

Yep. Among Dragons' first 4 fixtures were Leinster and Ulster away, then Munster at home.

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Post by Brendan Fri 30 Oct 2020, 7:37 pm

Benetton struggle with Zebre in true Derby fashion.

I think Connacht would take the harder game against Ulster and Leinster and get the bigger game and what it's worth comercially to them.

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Post by Guest Fri 30 Oct 2020, 7:44 pm

Brendan wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
profitius wrote:A win for munster tonight will mean 11 wins from 12 for the Irish provinces.

League's been stitched up, that's why.

Oh, check out the commentary on this btw. While it doesn't directly impact results it was one of the things mentioned a few weeks back with regard to Irish bias/how dispirited Welsh supporters are with Pro14 broadcasting given its status on a non entity subscription service.

Blues carve up Munster; apathy.

Munster finally score a decent try that isn't a Schmidt-screaming 1 yard wonder; comms go mental.

Terrible product. Biased and terrible.


I think you will find Munster's style of rugby has been one out runners and up the jumper stuff when Joe was just a school teacher wanting to just focus on basketball.

The longer a move goes on the more the commentator must talk about it and match the pace of the move.  If a commentator can't get excited from a backs move with offloads, starts well outside the 22 (unlike the the other tries) then when can you.  The Blues tries were one pass, through gap and score.  Commentator was more excited about those than the Munster 1m scores.

These were two of the forms teams in the Conference to date. If the comenator cant get excited about a try that looked to deciede the winner in a game that swung constantly during the game then when should they get excited.

Might the issue be not the commentary of the try but the upset that an Irish team won.  It seems that the Irish Bias seems to be less and less tied to the IRFU and more and more down to the rugby ideology that the stronger team always get the 50/50 decisions or even the 40/60 ones.

Maybe the league isn't Irish Bias but more of a Northern Teams v Southern teams in the league or an anti Welsh bias.  It was Irish Bias when the Irish refs did the matches.  Now non Irish refs are reffing Irish games we still have Irish "bias".  The more fans use Irish Bias as the reason they are failing the less the team will need to take responsibility.

All 4 provinces have had coaching teams being held accountable for failures by both the fans and the IRFU.  Munster had to bring in the better coaches and players because they were poor and people were upset.  There was no blame on Leinster bias.

I guess it was anti Scottish bias that Ospreys have only got points against Scottish teams or that the two Scottish teams lost to the Kings.

Na, sorry, you're defending a commentator literally celebrating a try for the team they want to win. This is embarrassing stuff. It's bad enough when you get pundits like Jiffy but for the main comms guy to be so obviously biased.

This is one of those things where if you're Irish, you clearly don't get it. If the shoe was on the other foot you absolutely would. The coverage has been useless and ridiculously pro Irish as soon as it went to subscription service; first with Sky and now with the nonsense company it's with.

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Post by Guest Fri 30 Oct 2020, 7:47 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
profitius wrote:A win for munster tonight will mean 11 wins from 12 for the Irish provinces.

League's been stitched up, that's why.

Oh, check out the commentary on this btw. While it doesn't directly impact results it was one of the things mentioned a few weeks back with regard to Irish bias/how dispirited Welsh supporters are with Pro14 broadcasting given its status on a non entity subscription service.

Blues carve up Munster; apathy.

Munster finally score a decent try that isn't a Schmidt-screaming 1 yard wonder; comms go mental.

Terrible product. Biased and terrible.

Check out the commentary on this, btw.  

Edinburgh score a few good tries - Scottish comms go mental.
Connacht score tries - comms are complimentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdFpaJnlHQo

Or this one.  Ospreys v Glasgow.  

Glasgow score tries - apathy.
Ospreys score tries - Welsh comms go mental.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uPd0gSqUL0


Or there's this one from Zebre vs Cardiff Blues

Zebre - apathy
Cardiff - delirious.

Welsh comms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I2yjtROwd4

Or this one.

Scarlets v Munster

Munster - apathy - same old, same old
Scarlets - wild enthusiasm from the err Welsh comms team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hpvV0Ml0Bk


Wonder what the common theme here is?  Anyone, Anyone?  Bueller?

Give me timestamps and I'll watch them but I can guarantee they aren't as atrociously and obviously biased as the example I've provided. Guarantee it.

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Post by Guest Fri 30 Oct 2020, 7:59 pm

I gave you the benefit of the doubt by watching the last link. You were lying. Ok.

Irish posters/fans know. You all know. It's true, the complaints are true. You just don't care.

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Post by Brendan Fri 30 Oct 2020, 8:16 pm

I guess when it was on the local stations all the commentators were neutral.

Having watched plenty soccer growing up it can be frustrating at times when certain teams got better comments from the broadcaster but I wouldn't have said that made the competition bias.

A commentator doesn't determine the winner.

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Post by TJ Fri 30 Oct 2020, 8:37 pm

You want to try watching a scottish / Welsh game where the welsh are the host broadcasters - incredibly biased commentry

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 30 Oct 2020, 8:44 pm

Depends if Jiffy is commentating doesn’t it?

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Post by Guest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:25 am

TJ wrote:You want to try watching a scottish / Welsh game where the welsh are the host broadcasters - incredibly biased commentry

No, disagree. Gareth Charles - typical BBC commentator - is as close to gold standard as you can get for a main commentator. The punditry? Yes, I understand that can be annoying. But here's the thing: there's a difference between punditry and commentary. Also, when something is on BBC Wales or S4C it's naturally be 'biased', as you'd expect on BBC Alba or BBC NI (their main commentator is good, their pundits are just as biased towards Ulster as Jiffy or any Welsh co-comms/pundit).

The issue with this is that this is a cross-border competition on subscription TV service that is using the same 'product' and broadcasting team for all nations involved. In theory, that commentary team is supply South Africa, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and Italy. And so having the same prejudicial leaning as BBC Wales or BBC Alba might have towards their own teams is absolutely unacceptable.

The far bigger issue, however, is that this is commentary. It's commentary, not punditry. There is a massive difference. One is a journalist, the other is 'working in media'.

The issue is clear and it has been since the Pro12/14 coverage went private: primarily by the Irish, for the Irish.

It's embarrassing having to read comments defending a journalist celebrating a try.

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Post by TJ Sat 31 Oct 2020, 8:13 am

Depends if Jiffy is commentating doesn’t it?



He is the worst but it happens to everyone from every nation. I am sure if you welsh fans watch a game with commentry provided by BBC Scotland its equally annoying :-)

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Post by LordDowlais Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:18 am

Don't worry, we will see enough Scottish moaning when Gatland announces the Lions squad.

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Post by LordDowlais Sat 31 Oct 2020, 9:21 am

And yes the Pro14 is dying a slow death here in Wales. Although do not expect to see the usual apologists on here admitting it.

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Post by profitius Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:59 am

LordDowlais wrote:And yes the Pro14 is dying a slow death here in Wales. Although do not expect to see the usual apologists on here admitting it.


You mean interest in your regions is. A decade of poor results will do that. At least Cardiff look like they might be good this season.
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Post by RiscaGame Sat 31 Oct 2020, 11:23 am

Laugh


Last edited by RiscaGame on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pot Hale Sat 31 Oct 2020, 1:37 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:I gave you the benefit of the doubt by watching the last link. You were lying. Ok.

Irish posters/fans know. You all know. It's true, the complaints are true. You just don't care.

Each of the links provided has the home commentary team - Welsh, Scottish, Irish - showing greater excitement/'bias' for their home team. The UK shows are produced in Wales for Premier Sport with a long-established English production company who provide programming to BT Sport.

The commentating team changes based on where the game is being played, or if Italian team - home or away.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 4:13 pm

Good old scrap down in RP. Solid enough from Munster, they got the win. Much improved Dragons, but last week was awful so we had to improve somehow. And of course the match wouldn’t be compete without a complete amateur on the whistle.

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Post by Guest Sun 01 Nov 2020, 4:35 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:I gave you the benefit of the doubt by watching the last link. You were lying. Ok.

Irish posters/fans know. You all know. It's true, the complaints are true. You just don't care.

Each of the links provided has the home commentary team - Welsh, Scottish, Irish - showing greater excitement/'bias' for their home team.   The UK shows are produced in Wales for Premier Sport with a long-established English production company who provide programming to BT Sport.  

The commentating team changes based on where the game is being played, or if Italian team - home or away.  


I watched the last link of the Scarlets game. You're completely making it up, nothing of the sort happens, so I didn't bother with the rest.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 01 Nov 2020, 7:31 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Good old scrap down in RP. Solid enough from Munster, they got the win. Much improved Dragons, but last week was awful so we had to improve somehow. And of course the match wouldn’t be compete without a complete amateur on the whistle.
The Dragons were comically bad in the first quarter though. Every time they got into a decent attacking position they kicked the ball away and Munster ran up and scored. Even I was getting infuriated and to make matters worse the Dragons looked deadly with ball in hand!

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Sun 01 Nov 2020, 7:36 pm

Scarlets with so much cynical play on their own line. No card from the ref. Welsh getting away with continuous infringements. Refs don’t do nothing when welsh are the perpetrators

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 7:48 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Good old scrap down in RP. Solid enough from Munster, they got the win. Much improved Dragons, but last week was awful so we had to improve somehow. And of course the match wouldn’t be compete without a complete amateur on the whistle.
The Dragons were comically bad in the first quarter though. Every time they got into a decent attacking position they kicked the ball away and Munster ran up and scored. Even I was getting infuriated and to make matters worse the Dragons looked deadly with ball in hand!

Yes they were but still not as bad as last week. Our halfbacks kick too much, especially Rhodri, and half the time the kicks aren’t great. Sadly there is nobody to challenge for the jersey. Our backs and back-row are pretty good, but if you got a poor front 5 you’re on a hiding to nothing. I actually think they competed well but they are too slow. You can’t really teach them to catch the ball either, pro’s need to be able to get the basics right at least.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 01 Nov 2020, 10:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Good old scrap down in RP. Solid enough from Munster, they got the win. Much improved Dragons, but last week was awful so we had to improve somehow. And of course the match wouldn’t be compete without a complete amateur on the whistle.
The Dragons were comically bad in the first quarter though. Every time they got into a decent attacking position they kicked the ball away and Munster ran up and scored. Even I was getting infuriated and to make matters worse the Dragons looked deadly with ball in hand!

Yes they were but still not as bad as last week. Our halfbacks kick too much, especially Rhodri, and half the time the kicks aren’t great. Sadly there is nobody to challenge for the jersey. Our backs and back-row are pretty good, but if you got a poor front 5 you’re on a hiding to nothing. I actually think they competed well but they are too slow. You can’t really teach them to catch the ball either, pro’s need to be able to get the basics right at least.
I was just watching the first half in complete bemusement at the tactics as the game was really there for the taking. This is the best Dragons squad I can remember, it's time they start backing themselves now especially at home.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 11:06 pm

It’s still not a great squad to be honest, especially when compared to every other squad in the league. It’s not like I’ve posted any excuses anyway. I have been pretty straight and fair in my assessment so not sure why you two are whinging at me.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 01 Nov 2020, 11:28 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It’s still not a great squad to be honest, especially when compared to every other squad in the league. It’s not like I’ve posted any excuses anyway. I have been pretty straight and fair in my assessment so not sure why you two are whinging at me.
Wait what? I'm not whining at you at all? I was just adding to what you were saying. I was cheering on the Dragons btw, I want them to have a good year this year.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 01 Nov 2020, 11:40 pm

It seemed like you were. I misread a comment earlier, I thought it was from bandwagon. I think we’ll be better but we’ve had to play the top Irish in our first few games so it wouldn’t look good. It won’t get easier with Wasps and Bordeaux to come! Need a defence and front 5 that can compete.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 01 Nov 2020, 11:47 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It seemed like you were. I misread a comment earlier, I thought it was from bandwagon. I think we’ll be better but we’ve had to play the top Irish in our first few games so it wouldn’t look good. It won’t get easier with Wasps and Bordeaux to come! Need a defence and front 5 that can compete.
Yes it was a tough start but here's hoping they can make another run in Europe. A couple of wins in a row could see their confidence sky rocket.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 02 Nov 2020, 5:45 am

Dragons a little better than expected. I get why they played kicking tactics, but we are one of those teams who shouldn't really kick as we are such poor chasers. To be honest, we should've had a LBP out of that but for Sam Davies having another poor game off the tee.

Disappointing to see Hewitt so quiet yesterday. It was hard to tell from the lack of replays yesterday, but Brok Harris seemed to be harshly penalised for his scrummaging and was immediately blamed by the ref. I didn't really get why he got penalised three times alone, but two of Munster's scrum offences were purely free kicks.

Lineout was a little better, but it shows how under powered we are in the front five and lacking in ball carriers. As soon as the weather turns bad, we will always struggle. Good to see Jack Dixon be forceful when he came on.

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Nov 2020, 9:51 am

Surely kick chase is something that can easily be improved? It's not like it's a tactic that is reliant on skill or talent, it's just hard work, structure, and ideally a little bit of pace and power.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 02 Nov 2020, 10:35 am

You would think, but a few coaches have failed to do so and I would say it has been an issue for a long time now, on top of our front five etc.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 02 Nov 2020, 10:49 am

Hibbard looks like he's half asleep most of the time. He's just giving away penalties and losing us ground and has to go. Shocker of a call to keep him on. We could do with a decent player with experience to come in and replace him, rotate with Dee. That's what is needed if we are to move forward. Harris is probably a 20 minute player these days, still decent enough for now. We were without two LH's though so he might not have been starting.

Roberts has to be within a Wales shout too? They need a solid carrier. Everything Dragons do well comes off of him. Defences are struggling to contain him.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:27 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Roberts has to be within a Wales shout too? They need a solid carrier. Everything Dragons do well comes off of him. Defences are struggling to contain him.

Jamie? If so he is a quality player who while well past his best is perhaps too good for many club defences, but no longer good enough for International ones?

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 02 Nov 2020, 11:29 am

LondonTiger wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Roberts has to be within a Wales shout too? They need a solid carrier. Everything Dragons do well comes off of him. Defences are struggling to contain him.

Jamie? If so he is a quality player who while well past his best is perhaps too good for many club defences, but no longer good enough for International ones?

Doc Roberts himself. Not sure if past his best, he certainly doesn't look it yet. We can at least try. Watkin and Tompkins aren't cutting it. JD2 actually looks past it sadly, unless he is still easing back in - if that's the case he probably shouldn't be in the squad.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon 02 Nov 2020, 3:34 pm

Thought he did pretty well against De Allende to be fair, but I can’t imagine him earning international recognition again.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 02 Nov 2020, 3:42 pm

He certainly did. de Allende is quality and a rock in defence, you can see the difference. If Roberts can do that then I imagine he still has a season to offer Wales, play 60 mins and maybe have Jonny Williams replace him. We need to find the right balance between experience and youth, but a lot the senior members haven't been cutting it for Wales. JD2, Tips and Faletau spring to mind.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 02 Nov 2020, 7:29 pm

Another good scrap in RP. Blues front 5 blow hot and cold, but today is one of their better days. I know all the Regions are poor in the scrum right now but on the rare occasion they are good, it doesn’t get rewarded like today Rolling Eyes.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 02 Nov 2020, 8:06 pm

Good result for Ulster against the Welsh Blues team. Low scoring affair though with not much on offer from either backline.

John Cooney gets MOTM - he's probably hoping Farrell noticed.
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