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Post by Brendan on Sat 19 Sep 2020, 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

As one season finishes it seems the new one seems to start sooner each year.  Here is the breakdown of teams over the last three years. Places (based on league points) and points are order 19/20, 18/19, 17/18

Leinster (Champions and clearly the team to beat)
Place 1, 3, 2, Average 2
Points 69, 76, 70 total 215
Always have finished top of their conference and winners for the last three years
Goal - Win, anything else is failure

Munster
Place 3, 2, 4 Average 3
Points 51, 77, 69 Total 197
Yet another table where Munster fall short yet again.  Each of the last three years have been knocked out by Leinster
Goal - Top Conference (2nd in league) to finally avoid Leinster in the playoffs to make the final

Glasgow
Place 7, 1, 1 Average 3
Points 38, 81, 76 Total 195
Was this year a WC hangover or is it the start of the slide back to the chasing pack.  Losing key players is taking it's toll. No longer the best team in Scotland.
Goal - Win back dominance in Scotland

Ulster
Place 4, 4, 6 Average 4.33
Points 44, 63, 62 Total 169
Improving each year and seem like one of the teams to challange Leinster.
Goal - Get back to the final

Scarlets
Place 4, 9, 3 Average 5.33
Points 47, 52, 70 Total 169
Last year killed them but on their day a match of anyone. Best team usually in Wales.
Goal - make the final

Edinburgh
Place 2, 10, 5 Average 5.66
Total 51, 51, 68 Total 170
Like Scarlets last year killed them.  Have conquered Scotland and have one of the best coaches in the league.  Possibly the 2nd best team for next season if Cockers has cracked rotation.
Goal - make the final

Connacht
Place 6, 5, 10 Average 7
Points 40, 61, 39 Total 140
Excluding the first year under Keane have been playoff contenders each year.  But they need to push on and not just be happy fighting for a playoff sport.
Have to push for Top 4

Benetton
Place 8, 7, 7 Average 7.33
Points 36, 57, 55 Total 148
Consistency has got them middle of the table which is a good place to build from rather than just the place to stay.
Goal - time to push for Top 6

Blues
Place 9, 8, 8 Average  8.33
Points 33, 54, 54 Total 141
Again consistent in their place but have fallen down and past by their peers.  Have to be looking over their shoulders at Dragons and Zebre.
Goal - time to get above 8th.

Ospreys
Place 12, 6, 9 Average 9
Points 17, 58, 54 Total 119
Which year was the anomaly, when they finished 6th or 12th.  An old team who live on past glories. Last year 6th may have been down to the drop in form of Scarlets and Edinburgh.
Goal - stop the rot

Dragons
Place 10, 11, 12 Average 11
Points 24, 26, 20 Total 70
Slowly improving.  No longer unable to win away from home and building nicely.
Goal - has to be 9th

Zebre
Place 11, 12, 11 Average 11.33
Points 21, 19, 36 Total 76
Have alot of young players coming through.  Last year wasn't great but the other two were improvements on previous years.
Goal - Finished 10th and pick up some big wins.


Last edited by Brendan on Mon 21 Sep 2020, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 27 Nov 2020, 10:44 pm

Kingshu wrote:The conspiracy didn't stop Henderson getting banned

Who/when/where.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri 27 Nov 2020, 11:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Plot twist.... Treadwell is English Wink.
He was Irish when he wasn't receiving the ban though, right? Wink

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 27 Nov 2020, 11:28 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Plot twist.... Treadwell is English Wink.
He was Irish when he wasn't receiving the ban though, right? Wink

Yeah that’s right.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 9:29 am

Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 9:30 am

laughing

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Post by Old Man on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 9:49 am

Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

Don’t fret Pete, you might gain a few South African posters when SARU joins the Pro (too many to count)

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Post by Brendan on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 12:16 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Brendan wrote:I think they should get rid of the rule (maybe unwritten) that if the ref takes action that is it, no review needed.  Also don't think all red cards should automatically have bans.

I doubt though that teams are looking to leave.  As far as I know there is nowhere to go other than maybe the English Championship.

Morgan Jones' Red Card didn't get a citing, as it was decided that the sending off was the wrong decision. I also thought Josh Helps' red card and citing was extremely harsh, but I accepted it as it is within the laws of protecting the head. Of course if you're an Irish player than you may target opposition heads at will and get off free. There's been 4 incidents of this now, I wonder why it isn't being escalated further.

I mean those who don't get red cards. Few players get given yellows and then get cited

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Post by Pete330v2 on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 4:31 pm

Old Man wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

Don’t fret Pete, you might gain a few South African posters when SARU joins the Pro (too many to count)

True, they'll have plenty to say too with them kicking all our butt's.
I do hope there are less whinging, crying victims with Eirephobia amongst them. It'd make a nice change to wading in tears Crying or Very sad 😭

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Post by Old Man on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 5:56 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

Don’t fret Pete, you might gain a few South African posters when SARU joins the Pro (too many to count)

True, they'll have plenty to say too with them kicking all our butt's.
I do hope there are less whinging, crying victims with Eirephobia amongst them. It'd make a nice change to wading in tears Crying or Very sad 😭

We are losing too many players Pete, by last count the 42nd South African is on his way to the English Premiership.

Haven’t even counted the Pro14 or French Top14.

We might not have any quality players left by the time we join. It seems like we are now just feeder clubs to Europe. Its becoming ridiculous.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 9:02 pm

Old Man wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

Don’t fret Pete, you might gain a few South African posters when SARU joins the Pro (too many to count)

True, they'll have plenty to say too with them kicking all our butt's.
I do hope there are less whinging, crying victims with Eirephobia amongst them. It'd make a nice change to wading in tears Crying or Very sad 😭

We are losing too many players Pete, by last count the 42nd South African is on his way to the English Premiership.

Haven’t even counted the Pro14 or French Top14.

We might not have any quality players left by the time we join. It seems like we are now just feeder clubs to Europe. Its becoming ridiculous.
You should expect to lose a whole lot more over the next few years with every super rugby coach summoned to explain why they didn't have more black players in their teams. Tough times ahead for SA rugby.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 28 Nov 2020, 10:24 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

I try to highlight continual wums or returning troublemakers to the mods and constantly express my frustrations, however I don’t agree with people talking about people leaving this site because of bad posters. I do believe this site could be good still, if quality posters carry on having genuine discussions. The good posts will always outweigh the bad.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Sun 29 Nov 2020, 12:08 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

I try to highlight continual wums or returning troublemakers to the mods and constantly express my frustrations, however I don’t agree with people talking about people leaving this site because of bad posters. I do believe this site could be good still, if quality posters carry on having genuine discussions. The good posts will always outweigh the bad.

It's the same boring wums that seem to hunt the topics looking for reactions or attention, sometimes simply spouting utter bilge. There have been some really insightful, positive posters that left the forum which is such a shame. There are still enough left who make it worthwhile mind you so you're right.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sun 29 Nov 2020, 6:50 pm

Great win Dragons. I would’ve been disappointed to have lost there, given their form but then when you factor in our rustiness and losing three players early through injury, it’s a great win.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 29 Nov 2020, 8:58 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Some of the comments on this thread have now descended into the most pathetic I've seen in all the years I've been on 606.
The comment on Treadwell being English would fall into the meaningless bilge category mind you so at least there's some variety in the whinging childishness.
Catch a grip folks, this forum has lost so many decent contributors due to this nonsense, it's little wonder the members are dwindling.

I try to highlight continual wums or returning troublemakers to the mods and constantly express my frustrations, however I don’t agree with people talking about people leaving this site because of bad posters. I do believe this site could be good still, if quality posters carry on having genuine discussions. The good posts will always outweigh the bad.

It's the same boring wums that seem to hunt the topics looking for reactions or attention, sometimes simply spouting utter bilge. There have been some really insightful, positive posters that left the forum which is such a shame. There are still enough left who make it worthwhile mind you so you're right.

People who disagree with you aren’t wums. People who point out the lunacy of not giving Irish players red cards aren’t wums. You can cry and accuse, but you won’t find any conspiracy theories from me even if you bother to look. I did overreact to your original comment on Treadwell so I got that one wrong, but now you’re just on a whinge spree.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 5:30 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Great win Dragons. I would’ve been disappointed to have lost there, given their form but then when you factor in our rustiness and losing three players early through injury, it’s a great win.

Agree. Big one and puts some daylight between ye and Zebre. Also still has ye in touch with 3rd for that European spot.

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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 6:10 pm

The Irish happy to keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I see. Yet more money for the monopolised comp they have stitched up. I hope the Welsh oppose it tbh. If nothing else, adding in South Africans in the middle of a global pandemic where SA has been decimated by the virus is insane.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 6:47 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:The Irish happy to keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I see. Yet more money for the monopolised comp they have stitched up. I hope the Welsh oppose it tbh. If nothing else, adding in South Africans in the middle of a global pandemic where SA has been decimated by the virus is insane.

Considering the Welsh regions don't get enough money from the current deal to be compeditive
you would assume they would want more money just like the other teams. Might help them to compete with English wages.

While players earn more in Europe the fans in SA are still there willing to pay for a product. Plus if the SA teams are as bad as Old Man implies then the Welsh will win more games.

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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 6:51 pm

It's all relative, Brendan. It's not much good if they're still competing on an uneven playing field as previously mentioned.

The SA teams - if they take it seriously - will be right up there and competing for the title, I would assume. Probably only consistency and Leinster's dominance/experience will pip them in the early years I would have thought. They'll probably come unstuck in a few games on soft ground that hurts them at the end of the season, a bit like the Cheetahs in the first year they entered the comp.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 7:38 pm

Brendan wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The Irish happy to keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I see. Yet more money for the monopolised comp they have stitched up. I hope the Welsh oppose it tbh. If nothing else, adding in South Africans in the middle of a global pandemic where SA has been decimated by the virus is insane.

Considering the Welsh regions don't get enough money from the current deal to be compeditive
you would assume they would want more money just like the other teams. Might help them to compete with English wages.

While players earn more in Europe the fans in SA are still there willing to pay for a product.  Plus if the SA teams are as bad as Old Man implies then the Welsh will win more games.

Not saying the SA teams are bad, I am concerned we cannot fill the voids fast enough of the players that keep on leaving to European clubs.

There is probably enough South Africans in Europe to fill two or three Super Rugby squads.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:15 pm

Old Man wrote:
Brendan wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:The Irish happy to keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I see. Yet more money for the monopolised comp they have stitched up. I hope the Welsh oppose it tbh. If nothing else, adding in South Africans in the middle of a global pandemic where SA has been decimated by the virus is insane.

Considering the Welsh regions don't get enough money from the current deal to be compeditive
you would assume they would want more money just like the other teams. Might help them to compete with English wages.

While players earn more in Europe the fans in SA are still there willing to pay for a product.  Plus if the SA teams are as bad as Old Man implies then the Welsh will win more games.

Not saying the SA teams are bad, I am concerned we cannot fill the voids fast enough of the players that keep on leaving to European clubs.

There is probably enough South Africans in Europe to fill two or three Super Rugby squads.

It’s also possible that SA players already in England might shift to SA teams if the pay is good enough. Prem clubs are under big financial pressure which is going to impact on salary levels.
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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:18 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:The Irish happy to keep chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, I see. Yet more money for the monopolised comp they have stitched up. I hope the Welsh oppose it tbh. If nothing else, adding in South Africans in the middle of a global pandemic where SA has been decimated by the virus is insane.

The IRFU want competitive teams in the PRO 14; the Welsh ones are not good enough. SA will at least field decent teams.

WRU want the money - they’ll sign up.
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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:24 pm

LOL, they don't want 'competitive teams' in the Pro14. They want to keep winning their stiched up comp while propping up its corpse with more and more teams to give the illusion of growth and a viable 'product'. If the Saffas are clever they'll leverage the Pro16 for European representation and move towards advocating for a Euro Super League, leaving the Irish dead on their backsides. If they're not, their teams will go the way of the Kings or the Welsh regions: junior partners in a corrupted competition. Wales produces more talented rugby players than Ireland, and South Africa produces more talented players than both. The Irish don't want 'competition', quite the opposite, on or off the field. We both know this.

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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:24 pm

I genuinely hope this doesn't go through as the IRFU are clearly on the brink financially. Making them live within their means isn't a bad idea.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:39 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:LOL, they don't want 'competitive teams' in the Pro14. They want to keep winning their stiched up comp while propping up its corpse with more and more teams to give the illusion of growth and a viable 'product'. If the Saffas are clever they'll leverage the Pro16 for European representation and move towards advocating for a Euro Super League, leaving the Irish dead on their backsides. If they're not, their teams will go the way of the Kings or the Welsh regions: junior partners in a corrupted competition. Wales produces more talented rugby players than Ireland, and South Africa produces more talented players than both. The Irish don't want 'competition', quite the opposite, on or off the field. We both know this.

Yeah - keep blowing it out yer backside, fella.  Any excuse will do.  

https://citizen.co.za/sport/south-african-sport/sa-rugby-sport/2403361/nucifora-lets-get-sas-super-rugby-sides-into-pro16-as-soon-as-we-can/

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/pro16-could-happen-as-early-as-new-year-as-irfu-stress-need-for-players-to-be-challenged/


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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 9:43 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:I genuinely hope this doesn't go through as the IRFU are clearly on the brink financially. Making them live within their means isn't a bad idea.

Hmm.. if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Might do some homework...

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/cash-strapped-irfu-receive-massive-multimillion-euro-bailout-from-irish-government/

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/38817/cain-column-irish-prudence-poses-more-questions-to-the-rfu/



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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 10:08 pm

Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 10:14 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season. Hardly in the poorhouse....
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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 10:29 pm

That was a thumping win by Ulster away from home.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 10:33 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:That was a thumping win by Ulster away from home.

It was but Edinburgh got back into it. They were unlucky with the opportunist try scored off the posts being cancelled due to scoring player being ahead of penalty kicker.

Ulster looking very good so far this season and the squad seem to be happy within themselves.
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Post by Guest on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 10:40 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season.  Hardly in the poorhouse....

UK gov. They're funding England, because Wales and Scotland have devolved govts/am's. So far the Welsh goverment has contributed a £20m loan Welsh rugby, because Westminster doesn't fund the regions. Obviously. That's the nature of devolution.

This just reinforces my point about the unevent footing. Irish rugby is of value to the Irish economy. Ireland's tax system is such that the financial benefits can be put back in to the sport via the Irish gov. The Irish gov has responded by absolutely funnelling cash back in to the sport to cover whatever gaping black holes there are due to lockdown. Who knows who, how, and why that is going to be paid for in the short and long term. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Welsh rugby should no be beholden to a game of 'Welsh Assembly v tax haven Irish gov' in a game of who can give the most money to their sports. It was a necessary evil 20 years ago that has long, long outrun its course - 2008 made that evident enough and the last 8 years or so have just been the nails in the coffin. The WRU should get out of this situation asap. Let the Irish gov fund their own teams and their own comp without Wales. So be it. Wales should look after Wales, both the WRU and the Welsh gov.

If you want to talk about the UK, then fine, let's talk about the UK - but it doesn't have much to do with Wales and how the regions are currently supported.

Welsh rugby absolutely should look towards England for any cross border competition, if that's what it takes: we have greater geographical, political, economic, legal, televisual/media, and even cultural, linguistic etc links than to Ireland. If crossborder competitions are to occur than it would make infinitely more sense to have a UK comp than a Wales-Irish one, for sure. If Wales is to be a junior partner I'd much, much prefer they do it with England than with Ireland.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 11:05 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season.  Hardly in the poorhouse....

UK gov. They're funding England, because Wales and Scotland have devolved govts/am's. So far the Welsh goverment has contributed a £20m loan Welsh rugby, because Westminster doesn't fund the regions. Obviously. That's the nature of devolution.

This just reinforces my point about the unevent footing. Irish rugby is of value to the Irish economy. Ireland's tax system is such that the financial benefits can be put back in to the sport via the Irish gov. The Irish gov has responded by absolutely funnelling cash back in to the sport to cover whatever gaping black holes there are due to lockdown. Who knows who, how, and why that is going to be paid for in the short and long term. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Welsh rugby should no be beholden to a game of 'Welsh Assembly v tax haven Irish gov' in a game of who can give the most money to their sports. It was a necessary evil 20 years ago that has long, long outrun its course - 2008 made that evident enough and the last 8 years or so have just been the nails in the coffin. The WRU should get out of this situation asap. Let the Irish gov fund their own teams and their own comp without Wales. So be it. Wales should look after Wales, both the WRU and the Welsh gov.

If you want to talk about the UK, then fine, let's talk about the UK - but it doesn't have much to do with Wales and how the regions are currently supported.

Welsh rugby absolutely should look towards England for any cross border competition, if that's what it takes: we have greater geographical, political, economic, legal, televisual/media, and even cultural, linguistic etc links than to Ireland. If crossborder competitions are to occur than it would make infinitely more sense to have a UK comp than a Wales-Irish one, for sure. If Wales is to be a junior partner I'd much, much prefer they do it with England than with Ireland.

Excellent riposte. You even managed to get tax haven in - the full Welsh Whinge Bingo.

Don’t let the door hit you in the backside on your way out....
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Post by Kingshu on Mon 30 Nov 2020, 11:28 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season.  Hardly in the poorhouse....

UK gov. They're funding England, because Wales and Scotland have devolved govts/am's. So far the Welsh goverment has contributed a £20m loan Welsh rugby, because Westminster doesn't fund the regions. Obviously. That's the nature of devolution.

This just reinforces my point about the unevent footing. Irish rugby is of value to the Irish economy. Ireland's tax system is such that the financial benefits can be put back in to the sport via the Irish gov. The Irish gov has responded by absolutely funnelling cash back in to the sport to cover whatever gaping black holes there are due to lockdown. Who knows who, how, and why that is going to be paid for in the short and long term. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Welsh rugby should no be beholden to a game of 'Welsh Assembly v tax haven Irish gov' in a game of who can give the most money to their sports. It was a necessary evil 20 years ago that has long, long outrun its course - 2008 made that evident enough and the last 8 years or so have just been the nails in the coffin. The WRU should get out of this situation asap. Let the Irish gov fund their own teams and their own comp without Wales. So be it. Wales should look after Wales, both the WRU and the Welsh gov.

If you want to talk about the UK, then fine, let's talk about the UK - but it doesn't have much to do with Wales and how the regions are currently supported.

Welsh rugby absolutely should look towards England for any cross border competition, if that's what it takes: we have greater geographical, political, economic, legal, televisual/media, and even cultural, linguistic etc links than to Ireland. If crossborder competitions are to occur than it would make infinitely more sense to have a UK comp than a Wales-Irish one, for sure. If Wales is to be a junior partner I'd much, much prefer they do it with England than with Ireland.


But its not a Wales-Irish comp, it is a UK-irish-Italian-SA comp. You are completly forgetting that there are two Scottish teams in it. So you already have a UK element to the comp. The SRU and Scottish fans appear to be pretty happy with the set up. So its only a part of the UK that appears to have an issue.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Tue 01 Dec 2020, 4:39 pm

I've got an idea - if the press are to be believed the Premiership are looking to bring back Saracens, plus one other team to make 14 and then ring fence for at least several years. How about a "Wales Dragons" in the Premiership?

The English wouldn't/couldn't fit all four teams but a combined Wales team, based at Cardiff - use the Arms Park for normal games and the Millennium for the big ones - might be viable, the other regions could either try and stay in the Pro14, move back into the Welsh Premiership or just fold completely.

Some great European games with "PRO14 Scarlets" playing the "Premiership Wales Dragons" as well!

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Post by Brendan on Tue 01 Dec 2020, 10:01 pm

Where are the three rich money men running the three Welsh regions in all this. Private investment is meant to be the best model.

Wales has something wrong with their internal structure. At the u20s championship where teams play their strongest teams they do better than Italy, Scotland and Ireland. They have never finished below 7th while getting 7th for the others is a good year.

Welsh Regions either don't have the young players coming through or are mishandling them in either development or support. Most Welsh young players seem to be coming through the English system rather than the Regions.

Apart from South Dublin (which in terms of schools is only about 10) South Wales must have the most teams and highest levels of competition of school going kids. This would be reflected in their u20 performances. Yet when it comes to the second string team the Regions seem to be behind the Irish and more worryingly the Scots in terms of depth and youth.

If Scotland are passing Wales in terms of squad depth then the problem is not with the league.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 01 Dec 2020, 10:45 pm

This year is going to be an unusual year due to the international matches and long season.  Next year will be different.

Some of the trends we have seen from the Pro14 compared to the Pro 12 is the following.
1.  There is one great team in the league and they are the best at bringing through talent. In the Pro12 Leinster were the most consistent but not better.
2. Ospreys have gone from contenders with players in their prime to the same players waiting for retirement.  They have not finished top 3 in their Conference which would have been hard to imagine when the Pro14 started
3. Ulster are now as good as Munster and only worry about playing Leinster and away trips to Glasgow, Scarlets, Munster and surprisingly Connacht. No one likes them but they don't care.
4. Scarlets are head and shoulders the best Welsh team in Pro14 and on their day can beat anyone. Sadly for the league being the best Welsh team nolonger means semi-finals.
5. Scotland have two good teams but only one is allowed to be good each year.  The Pro14 has meant more Champions Cup Rugby for Scotland. Gone are the Pro12 days when only Glasgow worried away fans.
6. Benetton are a team you now play your best against or you will lose in Italy. Still behind but no longer facing B teams.
7. The bad teams of the old Pro12 are not so bad anymore.  This has been backed up by European results where they use to be cannon fodder. They now can be stubborn and get TBPs. They still give blowouts so not everything is perfect.
8. The Blues go on runs, sometimes winning, sometimes losing.  They always leave you with more questions. Next year seems to be their year but it never is.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Sun 06 Dec 2020, 8:19 pm

Curious position, Irish teams 1-2 in both conferences, Welsh 3-4 in both conferences, Scots are 5th in both conferences and Italians are last in both conferences.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 06 Dec 2020, 8:30 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Curious position, Irish teams 1-2 in both conferences, Welsh 3-4 in both conferences, Scots are 5th in both conferences and Italians are last in both conferences.

I wonder once the SA teams join what the standings would be. I think the SA teams might struggle with the refereeing of the breakdowns in specific. The Cheetahs from what I saw were heavily penalised at the breakdowns.

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Post by profitius on Mon 07 Dec 2020, 8:15 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Curious position, Irish teams 1-2 in both conferences, Welsh 3-4 in both conferences, Scots are 5th in both conferences and Italians are last in both conferences.


The Scots and Italians have been hit very hard by national call ups. 2 teams supplying their national side vs 4 teams.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 07 Dec 2020, 11:14 am

Scarlets were without 26 players (albeit some were injured). Did anyone lose more?

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Post by Brendan on Mon 07 Dec 2020, 5:58 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets were without 26 players (albeit some were injured). Did anyone lose more?

Think the Scarlets after a slow start (though they were close games) seems to be up and running. Ospreys and Blues after good starts have stalled.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 07 Dec 2020, 11:35 pm

Yep, will be interesting to see how they slot all those guys back in. I would like to see Morgan Jones and Paul Asquith remain part of their 23. Their squad is quite a strong one.

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Post by Blueschief on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:25 am

Cardiff have announced the signing of Dwayne Peel as senior assistant attack coach for next season. Ulster are averaging 5.1 tries per game at the moment. Great signing.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 2:20 pm

Very good addition to the staff that.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 6:23 pm

A good Welsh coach coming home. He’ll find it very easy working with the backs that Cardiff have. Is this an indication that Mulvihill is staying?

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Post by Guest on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:36 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season.  Hardly in the poorhouse....

UK gov. They're funding England, because Wales and Scotland have devolved govts/am's. So far the Welsh goverment has contributed a £20m loan Welsh rugby, because Westminster doesn't fund the regions. Obviously. That's the nature of devolution.

This just reinforces my point about the unevent footing. Irish rugby is of value to the Irish economy. Ireland's tax system is such that the financial benefits can be put back in to the sport via the Irish gov. The Irish gov has responded by absolutely funnelling cash back in to the sport to cover whatever gaping black holes there are due to lockdown. Who knows who, how, and why that is going to be paid for in the short and long term. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Welsh rugby should no be beholden to a game of 'Welsh Assembly v tax haven Irish gov' in a game of who can give the most money to their sports. It was a necessary evil 20 years ago that has long, long outrun its course - 2008 made that evident enough and the last 8 years or so have just been the nails in the coffin. The WRU should get out of this situation asap. Let the Irish gov fund their own teams and their own comp without Wales. So be it. Wales should look after Wales, both the WRU and the Welsh gov.

If you want to talk about the UK, then fine, let's talk about the UK - but it doesn't have much to do with Wales and how the regions are currently supported.

Welsh rugby absolutely should look towards England for any cross border competition, if that's what it takes: we have greater geographical, political, economic, legal, televisual/media, and even cultural, linguistic etc links than to Ireland. If crossborder competitions are to occur than it would make infinitely more sense to have a UK comp than a Wales-Irish one, for sure. If Wales is to be a junior partner I'd much, much prefer they do it with England than with Ireland.

Excellent riposte.  You even managed to get tax haven in - the full Welsh Whinge Bingo.  

Don’t let the door hit you in the backside on your way out....

What a shame, I thought we were having an honest and interesting discussion where you were actually interested in 'debate'.

Instead it seems you were embarrassed that you didn't know about Welsh devolution and so lashed out with personal insults.

Shame, but I suppose that's discussion over.

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Post by Guest on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:36 pm

Kingshu wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Either that bailout will have to be paid for or it shows just how ridiculously imbalanced a cross border competition is. Why on earth have you posted that as if it's something in your favour!?

Would you like to read the corresponding bailout from the UK government?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/18/uk-government-set-to-announce-rescue-package-for-ailing-sports

WRU spent €35.8m on the four Welsh regions last season.  Hardly in the poorhouse....

UK gov. They're funding England, because Wales and Scotland have devolved govts/am's. So far the Welsh goverment has contributed a £20m loan Welsh rugby, because Westminster doesn't fund the regions. Obviously. That's the nature of devolution.

This just reinforces my point about the unevent footing. Irish rugby is of value to the Irish economy. Ireland's tax system is such that the financial benefits can be put back in to the sport via the Irish gov. The Irish gov has responded by absolutely funnelling cash back in to the sport to cover whatever gaping black holes there are due to lockdown. Who knows who, how, and why that is going to be paid for in the short and long term. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Welsh rugby should no be beholden to a game of 'Welsh Assembly v tax haven Irish gov' in a game of who can give the most money to their sports. It was a necessary evil 20 years ago that has long, long outrun its course - 2008 made that evident enough and the last 8 years or so have just been the nails in the coffin. The WRU should get out of this situation asap. Let the Irish gov fund their own teams and their own comp without Wales. So be it. Wales should look after Wales, both the WRU and the Welsh gov.

If you want to talk about the UK, then fine, let's talk about the UK - but it doesn't have much to do with Wales and how the regions are currently supported.

Welsh rugby absolutely should look towards England for any cross border competition, if that's what it takes: we have greater geographical, political, economic, legal, televisual/media, and even cultural, linguistic etc links than to Ireland. If crossborder competitions are to occur than it would make infinitely more sense to have a UK comp than a Wales-Irish one, for sure. If Wales is to be a junior partner I'd much, much prefer they do it with England than with Ireland.


But its not a Wales-Irish comp, it is a UK-irish-Italian-SA comp. You are completly forgetting that there are two Scottish teams in it.

Genuine question: do you actually think I think that? Or do you think it was shorthand?

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Post by Guest on Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:40 pm

Good move for Wales and Peel but sadly have a feeling that he's been helped by Ulster as much as Ulster have been helped by him. Never struck me as the most intelligent man in the world. Might be a genuinely quality coach but Wales have far bigger structural problems than just bringing back their most senior Welsh coaches to coach in Wales. I wonder if he wouldn't have been better staying in a well run, winning system/team than jumping ship back to Wales so soon. The Scarlets are still the only Welsh team that seems to give their players and coaches a net positive when it comes to being employed by them. The Blues are flattering to deceive, they have the players, they look like they're on the cusp of something, but then it also looks the case that they're sort of constantly two steps behind the big hitters in the league, whereas the Scarlets can actually match the Irish bar Leinster most days of the week and play on an even footing. Hope it works out though. But it does feel like a symbolic gesture as much as anything else.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 09 Dec 2020, 11:54 am

rugby racing and beer wrote:Good move for Wales and Peel but sadly have a feeling that he's been helped by Ulster as much as Ulster have been helped by him. Never struck me as the most intelligent man in the world. Might be a genuinely quality coach but Wales have far bigger structural problems than just bringing back their most senior Welsh coaches to coach in Wales. I wonder if he wouldn't have been better staying in a well run, winning system/team than jumping ship back to Wales so soon. The Scarlets are still the only Welsh team that seems to give their players and coaches a net positive when it comes to being employed by them. The Blues are flattering to deceive, they have the players, they look like they're on the cusp of something, but then it also looks the case that they're sort of constantly two steps behind the big hitters in the league, whereas the Scarlets can actually match the Irish bar Leinster most days of the week and play on an even footing. Hope it works out though. But it does feel like a symbolic gesture as much as anything else.

Does it not help to have people who have been in better setups come in and bring in some of those structures.

Supposedly Ruddock Is putting structures in place to rectify the problem Ospreys/Wales have in bring through young/u20 players.  This is probably down to his time at Leinster.  If you know how a good system is run its easy enough to implement most of it.

Peel has been part of an Ulster team on the up.  Can only be a good thing for Blues.  It would be a surprise if he wasn't an upgrade.  He has been there for 3 years (4 at end of contract) so not like he is leaving early or hasn't had time to prove himself.  If you want to move up the coaching ladder 4 years is a long time in one place.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is earmarked to take over down the road.

Ulster have brought though young backs and are one of the more exciting teams.  Is that not the kind of person the Blues would be good to get.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Wed 09 Dec 2020, 1:31 pm

Brendan wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:Good move for Wales and Peel but sadly have a feeling that he's been helped by Ulster as much as Ulster have been helped by him. Never struck me as the most intelligent man in the world. Might be a genuinely quality coach but Wales have far bigger structural problems than just bringing back their most senior Welsh coaches to coach in Wales. I wonder if he wouldn't have been better staying in a well run, winning system/team than jumping ship back to Wales so soon. The Scarlets are still the only Welsh team that seems to give their players and coaches a net positive when it comes to being employed by them. The Blues are flattering to deceive, they have the players, they look like they're on the cusp of something, but then it also looks the case that they're sort of constantly two steps behind the big hitters in the league, whereas the Scarlets can actually match the Irish bar Leinster most days of the week and play on an even footing. Hope it works out though. But it does feel like a symbolic gesture as much as anything else.

Does it not help to have people who have been in better setups come in and bring in some of those structures.

Supposedly Ruddock Is putting structures in place to rectify the problem Ospreys/Wales have in bring through young/u20 players.  This is probably down to his time at Leinster.  If you know how a good system is run its easy enough to implement most of it.

Peel has been part of an Ulster team on the up.  Can only be a good thing for Blues.  It would be a surprise if he wasn't an upgrade.  He has been there for 3 years (4 at end of contract) so not like he is leaving early or hasn't had time to prove himself.  If you want to move up the coaching ladder 4 years is a long time in one place.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is earmarked to take over down the road.

Ulster have brought though young backs and are one of the more exciting teams.  Is that not the kind of person the Blues would be good to get.

I'd presume McBryde is only in Leinster for a couple of more seasons and he'll look to get back into a Region setup too. That's part of building up the experience and exposures. ROG has been in France, NZ and France again. Even Leo in his early days headed out to NZ too if I remember correctly and had a record of bringing in different view points (wasn't there a time when Graham Henry was brought in pre-season for a couple of weeks.... about the time he pointed out Carberry's potential if the myths and legends are to be believed). A lot of potential coaches want exposure in those set ups, but it's also a case that those successful setups are more confident in their structures that they're comfortable getting fresh eyes and views so they don't suffer the downside of being in a bubble/echo-chamber.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Dec 2020, 1:51 pm

Not sure about McBryde but I guess he could improve, I didn't rate him during his time with Wales. You would assume by the time he is finished at Leinster, he'd be more than good enough to get the best out of a region. This is definitely the right idea with guys like him and Peel. We don't seem to recruit or invest wisely when it comes to coaches, and usually end up giving the job to a mate. I think that's changing now. Peel, Tandy, McBryde, Wilson among others definitely have the right idea by gaining some experience elsewhere.

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