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The Wales squad - Scotland, Autumn Nations Cup, and beyond

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Wayne Pivac will announce the squad on October 6th, likely to be a Scarlet-heavy selection and rightly so. I would also like to see new players come in so we can see what they have to offer. 

Wales might play France on October 24th in warm-up, but there is currently some doubt on whether this will go ahead. Next up is the re-arranged 6N match with Scotland on October 31st. In the autumn nations cup Wales will face-off against Ireland, England, Georgia and either France, Fiji, Italy or Scotland. 

Venues to be announced.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:11 pm

But isn’t he still contracted with the ‘Blues’? He’s still in Wales now, so if true that’s a bad call from Pivac.

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Post by The Oracle Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:But isn’t he still contracted with the ‘Blues’? He’s still in Wales now, so if true that’s a bad call from Pivac.

Just read this on the bbc report:

“Hill started his career at Cardiff Blues, playing for Moseley briefly in 2013 before joining Dragons for seven years.

Cardiff Blues had re-signed Hill "on a long-term deal" in June 2020 but that contract was no longer valid after players took 25% wage cuts last summer because of Covid-19.”

If contacts are null and void because of 25% pay cuts the that’s a worrying precedent. Anyone could leave at the drop of a hat (or the drop of a load of £££ $$$)
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Post by mikey_dragon Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:39 pm

Yeah, I envision more will leave. Can only point the finger at the WRU for their handling of the pandemic, and that ridiculous loan.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:42 pm

Questions have to be asked of the WRU, in that they see more value in vanity projects etc instead of correctly funding their supply chain. If only the Welsh media was fit for purpose and held them to account.

I don’t blame Hill leaving and I hope the real reasons come out. Players don’t just sign long term contracts and turn their back on Wales.

Pivac has no option to really (if he did withdraw him), because he has to get used to not being able to select him anyway, so needs to look at options. As much as Screech has been playing well for Dragons, I would probably have liked him to look at younger options. Still, it’s more representation from Dragons Wink.

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Post by The Oracle Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:55 pm

Was Hill perhaps not liking Dai Young? Can’t remember if he was signed for the Blues before or after Young came in? Before I think. Maybe the Blues signing of Screech has riled Hill and Hill felt he wasn’t being looked at as no.1 lock? Who knows.
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:22 am

Not sure, still think Hill is much better than Screech, although it is great for Screech to get some recognition. Also still think Hill should switch to blindside. My choice would have been Beard and Rowlands at 2nd row, that now seems likely. Also think Turnbull will be at 6 at some point.

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Post by The Oracle Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:36 am

I’m not enthused by Turnball at 6 for Wales. There’s gotta be better out there surely?! I know he’s had some rave reviews since joining Blues but I’ve never been that impressed (not that my opinion counts for much of course!).
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:59 am

The Oracle wrote:I’m not enthused by Turnball at 6 for Wales. There’s gotta be better out there surely?! I know he’s had some rave reviews since joining Blues but I’ve never been that impressed (not that my opinion counts for much of course!).

Me neither, but why else was he picked? Pivac prefers a big blindside. He's been consistent for Blues but the issue I've always had is that he can't step up in big games. Just a good club player for me.

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Post by The Oracle Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:21 am

Yeah, that’s my feeling too. Not terrible. Solid. Just not quite top international level. He might do well on a development-type tour such as this though. But it’s in the 6N, World Cup, AIs against the Tier 1 nations that I don’t think he’s quite good enough for.
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Post by Oakdene Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:46 am

I always find it strange that we can produce a great stock of players in certain positions, for example open sides & scrum halves but struggle with positions such as lock or blindsides.

Turnbull is good because he is rarely injured & puts his all in but I don't think he is the answer for Wales.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:42 pm

Another great piece by Chris Kirwan of the South Wales Argus here. Here are some highlights.

Chris Kirwan wrote:Players took 25 per cent wage cuts because of the coronavirus pandemic and, with the professional clubs feeling that the Welsh Rugby Union aren't backing them sufficiently, leaving the country makes sense from a sporting and financial point of view.

Make no mistake, it's a shambolic situation and the governing body, who have opted to spend the £51million from CVC's Six Nations investment on capital projects, risk serious long-term pain with their approach.

Yes, the pro clubs, not just supporters as Simon Thomas alluded to. Chris is 100% correct to call it a shambolic situation too.

Chris Kirwan wrote:The forward has grown in influence while still being an unsung hero, going unnoticed by those who only have a passing Dragons interest to the extent that he could soon be the subject of 'Meet Matthew Screech: Wales' latest lock' article elsewhere.

laughing

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:57 pm

Haven’t read it yet, but it looks like Wales Online might have gone in on the WRU now. Just saw the writer Ben James be retweeted on Twitter, saying the WRU are placing too much stock on the value of the Welsh shirt, in a world of pay cuts.

I wish they had done it sooner, to force the WRU’s hand more. Now they have decided what they’re spending the CVC money on (vanity projects) and seemingly almost sorted the budgets. It’s also looking too late to rearrange the loan.

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Post by RiscaGame Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:13 am

Steffan Thomas wrote: Samson Lee, Rhys Davies, Seb Davies and Lloyd Williams have been added to the Wales squad.

Tomas Francis has been ruled out due to a back injury and Rhodri Williams is being assessed for a shoulder injury

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Post by RiscaGame Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:19 am

It is a worry, if it’s still the same shoulder injury for Rhodri Williams. Hope Francis recovers quickly.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:33 am

I’m a little concerned without Francis. Hopefully this finally gives John an opportunity, but I imagine Pivac will select Lewis Rolling Eyes. It’s a bit difficult to figure out what the starting team is now, a lot of new guys are involved.

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Post by Oakdene Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:39 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I’m a little concerned without Francis. Hopefully this finally gives John an opportunity, but I imagine Pivac will select Lewis Rolling Eyes. It’s a bit difficult to figure out what the starting team is now, a lot of new guys are involved.

Correct as I don't think John is in the squad, unless I missed him being called up.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:42 am

Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I’m a little concerned without Francis. Hopefully this finally gives John an opportunity, but I imagine Pivac will select Lewis Rolling Eyes. It’s a bit difficult to figure out what the starting team is now, a lot of new guys are involved.

Correct as I don't think John is in the squad, unless I missed him being called up.

Correct, he definitely isn’t in. He’s had more game time than Lee though, that I’m sure of. John is coming back to Wales so I don’t see a reason for his exclusion.

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Post by Oakdene Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:48 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I’m a little concerned without Francis. Hopefully this finally gives John an opportunity, but I imagine Pivac will select Lewis Rolling Eyes. It’s a bit difficult to figure out what the starting team is now, a lot of new guys are involved.

Correct as I don't think John is in the squad, unless I missed him being called up.

Correct, he definitely isn’t in. He’s had more game time than Lee though, that I’m sure of. John is coming back to Wales so I don’t see a reason for his exclusion.

It is a bit mystifying, especially when you think he was on the cusp of playing against Scotland in the 2020 6 nations.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:31 am

RiscaGame wrote:It is a worry, if it’s still the same shoulder injury for Rhodri Williams. Hope Francis recovers quickly.

Real shame for Rhodri Williams after he's waited so long for the chance to add to his number of caps.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:46 pm

I did think Morgan Jones stood a better chance of being called up, I wonder if he’s injured.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:33 am

Wales team to play Canada is out:-

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Jonah Holmes, Willis Halaholo, Jonathan Davies, Tom Rogers; Callum Sheedy, Tomos Williams; Nicky Smith, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis; Ben Carter, Will Rowlands; Ross Moriarty, James Botham, Aaron Wainwright.

Reps: Ryan Elias, Gareth Thomas, Leon Brown, Josh Turnbull, Taine Basham, Kieran Hardy, Ben Thomas, Nick Tompkins.

Very happy for the new guys. I am looking forward to seeing how Tom Rogers goes, I hope Taine Basham gets some game time as well. Halfpenny will be making his 100th appearance, well done to him.

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Post by The Oracle Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:40 am

A decent mix of youth and experience there.  

Dillon Lewis though - one for Mikey to mull over! Wink
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Post by LordDowlais Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:52 am

The Oracle wrote:Dillon Lewis though - one for Mikey to mull over! Wink

Laugh


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Post by RiscaGame Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:55 am

Delighted for Holmes and Ben Carter. Holmes definitely warrants a start. Interesting to see Halaholo 13, Davies 12. Also interesting to see Moriarty 6 and Wainwright 8.

Pretty tidy squad. The only thing I don't like is Turnbull covering lock. I guess it's because the lock replacements joined so late, but you'd think Seb Davies would be up to speed, having been involved previously.


Last edited by RiscaGame on Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RiscaGame Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:11 pm

Excited to see Ben Thomas as 10 cover too.


Last edited by RiscaGame on Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:12 pm

I like the team, just hope they aren’t too rusty - that used to happen often when we made wholesale changes. If we play the Pivac way I imagine both wingers will score tries.

Interesting that Carter went straight into the starting team. Great for him. Turnbull covering lock is disappointing, especially when you consider we desperately need to develop depth there.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:15 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Turnbull covering lock is disappointing, especially when you consider we desperately need to develop depth there.

What has happened to Rory Thornton ?

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Post by RiscaGame Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:18 pm

It's mad that Carter has been given the lineout calling too. A lot of responsibility on such a young player. That shows how highly he is thought of.

Great to see the new starting Dragons locks together.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Turnbull covering lock is disappointing, especially when you consider we desperately need to develop depth there.

What has happened to Rory Thornton ?

Too rubbish.

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Post by The Oracle Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:20 pm

Tom Rogers is one that I admittedly know very little about. Is he a good call up? A surprise? Or one to test him at this level and see what happens? I’ve watched very little rugby this past year and some of the new guys are right off my radar!
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Post by RiscaGame Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:20 pm

On Lewis, I guess out of he and Brown, Lewis probably finished the season better. Brown had the rough end of the deal, off a few Pro 14 refs, in the Rainbow Cup again. Plus he was at times playing second fiddle to Fairbrother.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:20 pm

RiscaGame wrote:It's mad that Carter has been given the lineout calling too. A lot of responsibility on such a young player. That shows how highly he is thought of.

Great to see the new starting Dragons locks together.

He’s taken to pro rugby like a duck to water…

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Post by RiscaGame Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:23 pm

The Oracle wrote:Tom Rogers is one that I admittedly know very little about. Is he a good call up? A surprise? Or one to test him at this level and see what happens? I’ve watched very little rugby this past year and some of the new guys are right off my radar!

He was discussed previously, which was handy as I was similar in that I hadn't been watching too many Scarlets games (other than derbies). I mentioned his scoring rate, but somebody (can't remember who sorry) was able to discuss what else he offers. It seems like he is electric, so I hope he gets a lot of ball. Same as Holmes.

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Post by flyhalffactory Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:59 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Tom Rogers is one that I admittedly know very little about. Is he a good call up? A surprise? Or one to test him at this level and see what happens? I’ve watched very little rugby this past year and some of the new guys are right off my radar!

He was discussed previously, which was handy as I was similar in that I hadn't been watching too many Scarlets games (other than derbies). I mentioned his scoring rate, but somebody (can't remember who sorry) was able to discuss what else he offers. It seems like he is electric, so I hope he gets a lot of ball. Same as Holmes.

The young Scarlet had a great game against us a few weeks ago (only saw the highlights) he made the the 1st try for Hardy and showed Jack Blain who is no slouch a clean pair of heels to score his try. Pivac is one of the modern coaches, who, like Gregor is an advocate of expansive rugby so a pure pace speedster like Rogers is always going to be high on his list

Talking about that rainbow cup game, I thought Hardy really looked the dog's balls, he was confident and cocky, agressive tackling and running, making one try for Rogers and scoring two for himself. Looks like the Welsh scrum half conveyor belt is working well, Gareth Davies, Tomos Williams, Keiran Hardy, Rhodri Williams & Saracens Aled Davies having a great season, you can see why the excellent Rhys Webb is looking to have his last big pay day at club level possibly outside Wales

Thats a great squad, looking good Wales
king 1/2p 100 (4 Lions) caps, superb achievement
Half Backs - Williams & Sheedy, crikey that's the welsh dream combo
Rogers the speedster, last cefneithin (apologies for spelling if not right) lad was a certain Barry John, so no pressure Tom
Nice balance to the back row
Cracking bench

You've got to be looking at 6 to 8 tries guys
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:04 pm

Looks like Halfpenny could now be out for a while.

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Post by Heaf Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:04 pm

Doesn't look good for 1/2P ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:22 pm

Real shame on your 100th cap.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:44 pm

Awful that. Horrendous thing to see.

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Post by Poorfour Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:47 pm

The ref is giving Wales a lot of leeway at the breakdown. Halaholo clearly had hands on the floor after that kick off
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:15 pm

I was wondering when the reps would come on. Rowlands has to be a starter next week if he’s come off first. Not so sure about Carter, I think he could struggle physically against Los Pumas.

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Post by flyhalffactory Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:38 pm

Afternoon Everyone
Just heard the awful news about 1/2p, let's hope he gets back as soon as poss.
Hard to assess these games, as they generally are disjointed but exposure to the international arena for the rookies is vital as is new combos.
So a good performance so far, I think Wales have to drive on now.
That's poor defence from Rogers, but they could be let off
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Post by RiscaGame Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:25 pm

Poorfour wrote:The ref is giving Wales a lot of leeway at the breakdown. Halaholo clearly had hands on the floor after that kick off

To be fair, Canada skirted a yellow card all day. Before our first try, was a clear one.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:24 pm

They’re saying on social media that Ben Carter got MOTM? I missed that, but I did nip out at the end.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:17 am

Wales: Hallam Amos; Jonah Holmes, Willis Halaholo, Jonathan Davies, Owen Lane; Callum Sheedy, Kieran Hardy; Nicky Smith, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Ben Carter, Will Rowlands, Ross Moriarty, James Botham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Gareth Thomas, Leon Brown, Josh Turnbull, Taine Basham, Tomos Williams, Jarrod Evans, Nick Tompkins.


Not the best selection. I think we're going to be quite underpowered. Turnbull as lock cover again... Tompkins isn't an international player. Lane has been out for a while so this is outta nowhere.

Does anyone get the hype with James Botham? He could be good in the future, but don't see how he's a starter.

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Post by Oakdene Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:37 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Wales: Hallam Amos; Jonah Holmes, Willis Halaholo, Jonathan Davies, Owen Lane; Callum Sheedy, Kieran Hardy; Nicky Smith, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Ben Carter, Will Rowlands, Ross Moriarty, James Botham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Gareth Thomas, Leon Brown, Josh Turnbull, Taine Basham, Tomos Williams, Jarrod Evans, Nick Tompkins.


Not the best selection. I think we're going to be quite underpowered. Turnbull as lock cover again... Tompkins isn't an international player. Lane has been out for a while so this is outta nowhere.

Does anyone get the hype with James Botham? He could be good in the future, but don't see how he's a starter.

Not often I agree with you Whistle but no, I don't get the hype with Botham. I'd rather Basham start to be honest.

I also don't get how Amos manages to get into the squad, I'd have moved Holmes (who has really impressed me recently) to 15 & kept Rogers on the wing.

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Post by RiscaGame Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:56 am

Yeah, it's very strange to play Amos at 15 and Lane on a different wing to where he would play for Cardiff (I think). I would've done the same, but then I guess Pivac wants to keep his in form player on the wing he plays.

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Post by The Oracle Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:09 pm

Amos! I’d almost forgotten about him! Whoops. Gone downhill since leaving the Dragons mind Whistle
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Post by RiscaGame Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:10 pm

They all do. That's the real reason why Hill legged it to Japan too.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:40 pm

If something goes wrong I don't see how Pivac can hide behind "building for the future", when he puts in Turnbull as lock cover. If anything, he should be playing at 6. Surprising to some I bet, but I would have put Seb Davies in the 23 instead. Parry over Elias every time for me. With Lewis starting against Arg, the decision to leave out John continues to look worse. Also I would have added either Ben Thomas or Ioan Lloyd, in place of Tompkins for that bit of x-factor that is required.

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Post by The Oracle Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:00 pm

The Will Griff John decision is baffling. Is he injured? Because Pivac was the one who called him up originally (when Pivac took over) and this summer would be the perfect opportunity to look at John with the Lions players away and when playing against relatively easier opponents (I.e. not a tour to one of the tri nations where you need to play your best players). This is a development tour really, albeit home based. Pivac learns nothing by not trying out John who has had rave reviews for a number of years now.
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