The Glasgow and Edinburgh General Chat. Discussions are limited to 6 people before 10pm to prevent the spread of Jimboish.

First topic message reminder :

Another chat thread dedicated to speculation, rumination, and general perambulation through the trials and tribulations of the club from the west with no forwards and the club from the east without a backs coach.

One day we'll have more rugby to talk about!

RDW wrote:Rugby Racing and Beer - I'm not sure what your purposes on this thread is. This is an Edinburgh and Glasgow general discussion thread full of Scottish posters that covers all things Scottish rugby, and is usually in good humour and banter. You're essentially on here telling us we're all wrong in thinking that Finn Russell is a top class player that we're proud to have in our team, despite us being the ones that watch him the most and, well, it being our team.

I responded to a point that included discussing Russell, said I didn't want to derail the thread, yet people kept replying to that point and turn it in to a Russell Lions debate. Not sure I'm to blame for that one haha!!

RDW wrote:

It's almost like you don't actually like attacking, exciting rugby and players that get fans excited and proud to call their own.

Not at all. To keep it brief, Russell is honkingly overrated. That's all. I've got used to trusting my instincts and I'm invariably right about judging most players. I don't see the player so many Scottish fans (clearly not impartial) or new breed of youtube-nerd-fans (like Squidge) see in Russell. I see someone exciting to watch, of course, but not top class. At least not yet. There's always a chance he'll play better but the track record of the last 12 months, from coach mutiny to showing almost nothing as his country got dumped out in the groups of RWC, is not good let alone great. I love exciting players and attacking rugby. I just wouldn't want Russell playing for the Lions, i.e. 'my' team, as it stands. There are better 10s. Several. I'll happily carry this discussion on elsewhere though like on the international board but as you made a silly claim it felt necessary to response, again.

TJ wrote:rugby racing and beer

There is a very good reason he is being paid the thick end of a million by racing - he is the best 10 in the NH by a long way.  He replaced Dan carter at Racing and if there was anyone better out there Racing would replace him in a heartbeat.  

As I said, honkingly overrated. Apparently he's second only to DC...

If anyone wants to carry the Russell debate on: https://www.606v2.com/t69649p50-potential-lions-squad-the-half-backs#3927107

Gilchrist named Edinburgh player of the season. Well deserved in my opinion.

Russell is the dogs. End of.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gilchrist named Edinburgh player of the season. Well deserved in my opinion.

Russell is the dogs. End of.

Agreed on both fronts! Good to see Crosbie picking up a few awards too - could be a big season ahead for him.

RDW wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Gilchrist named Edinburgh player of the season. Well deserved in my opinion.

Russell is the dogs. End of.

Agreed on both fronts! Good to see Crosbie picking up a few awards too - could be a big season ahead for him.

Some great players coming through the pipeline as well. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Darge getting a go in the backrow, he looks a real talent. I wonder if Ally Miller will be back if Mata is out for a few months?

Sounds like Mata is out until December.

Potential Edinburgh 23 during internationals:

Schoeman - Willemse - McCallum (Bhatti - Cherry - Atalifo)
Hodgson - Davidson (Sykes)
Charmander - Crosbie - Boyle (Muncaster/Darge)

Groom - JVDW (Pyrgos - Chamberlain/Scott(?))
Dean - Johnstone
Farndale - Hoyland - Blain (Gordon)

Looking at it, I am guessing that some of the Scotland players will have to be made available. It is a shame that Frostwick is in a position that Edinburgh will have a full compliment in. Edinburgh look short at:

8 - plenty of flankers in Crosbie, Carmichael (lock/BS), Kunavula, Boyle and Darge. Muncaster is 19 so maybe he is ready? What is Jack Mann? Ally Miller would be a safer choice and allow a bit more rotation with letting Boyle and Darge get game time in a more settled back row

FH - after Chamberlain, Edinburgh have a Cameron Scott in the academy who played some u20s in the most recent Six Nations and just turned 19. Can Matt Gordon play 10? Would Lee Millar (former LS fly half playing Super Six) be called up?

Back Three - There are two full backs and a wing in the academy. Not sure if any of them area ready otherwise Edinburgh will need to raid the 7s assuming Sau, Graham, VDM and Kinghorn are in the international squads leaving Hoyland, Farndale and Blain

Not too shabby really, just need Chamberlain to do well assuming VDW will be with Scotland. Will they release some players back to Edinburgh?

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/thatll-give-the-sts-to-all-the-teams-that-spend-lots-of-money-but-my-agenda-is-different-from-the-leinsters-munsters-and-ulsters-edinburgh-cockerill-pro14/

God I love cockers

Jimboish

ish ????

I've given birth to an adjective.

I'm so very, very proud.

jimbopip wrote:Jimboish

ish ????

I've given birth to an adjective.

I'm so very, very proud.

You'd already given birth to a verb

Jimbo

Example - My post includes perfect use of the Quote Function. I didn't Jimbo it in the slightest!

Glasgow got their new kit out - the first Glasgow top in years that actually looks quite decent.

The sponsor at least blends into the kit instead of a big green blob!

https://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/glasgow-warriors-reveal-2020/21-macron-kit

Robbie Nairn getting the midweek media slot from Warriors, often a good indication that he will be involved this Saturday

Any indication that Townsend will be looking for some players to get game time ahead of the scotland internationals? or do we think he will be very hands off and letting Wilson & Cockerill do their thing?

Keen to see Wilson throw a few youngsters out over the next few weeks, the sooner he starts blooding the youngsters the less painful it will be over november

How Jones the latest to say he didn't have much of a relationship with Rennie but acknowledged plenty of the squad thought of him as the best coach they've ever had. The thing that sticks out for me the most is he said he didn't have a single one to one with Rennie in his entire first year! They basically never spoke to each other. Sounds like Rennie wasn't on board with signing him in the first place

https://www.thexv.rugby/2020/09/30/the-forgotten-man/

It's behind a paywall so won't post the article on here. It's supporting a Scottish journo so happy to subscribe.

Kinda sums up most people's thoughts on Rennie.

If you are one of his guys then he's a great coach and mentor. If you are out of his little clique then yer pretty much stuffed.

Sounds very much like a typical clots rugby coach with blinkers on. Great for getting the most out of some players, honking at bringing on or developing new players.

That's quite some interview

Rennie doesn't come out of it very well at all. However, Jones doesn't seem the most emotionally intelligent young man either.
The subtext, which isn't too hard to spot, seems to be "I'm in my last year and if I don't get to be a regular starter I'm off."
I think if I was Danny Wilson I'd be tempted to explain a few harsh truths, starting with, "Put the performances in and everything else will fall into place." But I'm an old fogey. I think Cockers' style of man management is far too namby pamby. And Gordon reid deserved to be Shrekked.

Glasgow have signed Fotu Lokotui, a Tongan international most recently at Doncaster but joining the club as a free agent.  I'm not sure if that's a sign of his quality or belt tightening due to Covid down at Donny?  

Interestingly, the same press release gives some info on Bruce Flockhart and Jale Vakaloloma.  Flockhart is being granted an extended break from rugby for personal reasons, I hope everything is ok with him - it's good to see the club offering this up as an option to one of our young players.  Big Jale is leaving the club without ever pulling on the jersey - another one of our signings that hasn't worked out.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/glasgow-warriors-fotu-lokotui/?v=79cba1185463

It's s shame for Flockhart, who seemed to have a future as a professional rugby player, hopefully he can get over this and it is good to hear the club are supporting him. Best wishes to him.

JV has been another in what is becoming a longish line of Glasgow signings the don't seem to have quite worked out. I guess that most of them were pretty cheap, but still we need maybe to be reviewing our recruitment processes. Taking a punt on players, is not likely to be a viable policy going forward and perhaps more diligence is required.

There is apparently also another South African schoolboy on his way over to us, Connor de Bruyn, whom I know nothing whatsoever about. That may be the spot left open in our academy for this season now filled.

Also some chatter about a kiwi FB, Michael Collins, via an instagram post of him have a medical alongside Aki Seuili. That post has mysteriously now now been deleted.

With Ashe and JV departing ahead of their contracts, maybe it has freed up some funds for a couple of signings. I don't think the Tongan backrow player will have been very expensive, maybe we can squeeze this new Kiwi in as well.

Hopefully Flockhart isn't another Matt Smith scenario.

Hopefully Glasgow are actually learning their lessons on these too...

Also, if a player has been let go by a Championship side it probably doesn't say much for their abilities!

Championship sides are cutting their costs dramatically. They could have let him go simply becsuse they could not afford him!

BigGee wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/glasgow-warriors-fotu-lokotui/?v=79cba1185463

It's s shame for Flockhart, who seemed to have a future as a professional rugby player, hopefully he can get over this and it is good to hear the club are supporting him. Best wishes to him.

JV has been another in what is becoming a longish line of Glasgow signings the don't seem to have quite worked out. I guess that most of them were pretty cheap, but still we need maybe to be reviewing our recruitment processes. Taking a punt on players, is not likely to be a viable policy going forward and perhaps more diligence is required.

There is apparently also another South African schoolboy on his way over to us, Connor de Bruyn, whom I know nothing whatsoever about. That may be the spot left open in our academy for this season now filled.

Also some chatter about a kiwi FB, Michael Collins, via an instagram post of him have a medical alongside Aki Seuili. That post has mysteriously now now been deleted.

With Ashe and JV departing ahead of their contracts, maybe it has freed up some funds for a couple of signings. I don't think the Tongan backrow player will have been very expensive, maybe we can squeeze this new Kiwi in as well.

It's becoming quite an infamous list BigGee - from Carlin Isles and Folau Niua, via numerous American 8's with south sea island heritage, to Big Jale.  I agree we are going to have to be more circumspect about who we bring in going forward - very few of these real punts have worked out well.

The flip side is you do occasionally get some real steals like Nakarawa, Mata and Matawalu. It is a high risk, low cost proposition.

It does increasingly sound like Glasgow behind the scenes was a disaster. Hopefully there is money for a sports psychologist and Wilson has the guts to be rotating the squad effectively.

Michael Collins of the Highlanders is 27, Welsh/English qualified and has pedigree having been offered a chance at rugby league in the NRL and a member of a NZ u20's side according to wiki. If he is the guy I am thinking of, he is a good Super Rugby OC/wing/FB and would be the starting full back/wing for Glasgow. Unless he is qualified for Scotland, I am not sure we should take him as Wales would likely call him up if he plays well and we would be paying a high salary for a guy around half the time. If he is qualified, he is good enough to break into the squad though maybe not the first 23.

Hazel Sapling wrote:The flip side is you do occasionally get some real steals like Nakarawa, Mata and Matawalu. It is a high risk, low cost proposition.

It does increasingly sound like Glasgow behind the scenes was a disaster. Hopefully there is money for a sports psychologist and Wilson has the guts to be rotating the squad effectively.

Michael Collins of the Highlanders is 27, Welsh/English qualified and has pedigree having been offered a chance at rugby league in the NRL and a member of a NZ u20's side according to wiki. If he is the guy I am thinking of, he is a good Super Rugby OC/wing/FB and would be the starting full back/wing for Glasgow. Unless he is qualified for Scotland, I am not sure we should take him as Wales would likely call him up if he plays well and we would be paying a high salary for a guy around half the time. If he is qualified, he is good enough to break into the squad though maybe not the first 23.

Thats true Hazel, although I'd argue that all those players had some pedigree before joining Glasgow or Edinburgh - there have been some really wild punts that were never going to work. I can't mind the blokes name, but he was a No.8 from California who was a crossover from American Football and had hardly played rugby before.

I doubt he will get called up for Wales considering he played for Scarlets when they were near their peak and still didn't get called up. Could be a tovey-like figure. Solid and a good squad player. His experience at FB may be just what Glasgow need.

LangiLangi, the man with neck tattoos. He was a good carrier from memory but was too hot-headed and technically poor his first season. Did not get a second season.

M Collins went to Wales when he was 22-23 and Wales had L Williams, Halfpenny, Jamie Roberts and JD2 in their mid-late 20s (Roberts was 30 at the start of the following season) with Hallam Amos, Tyler Morgan and Corey Allen touted as the next big things. Wales are in a different position now and MC is in his early prime at 27. If he is playing well for Glasgow, why not?

Being only a Tovey level player would be my concern, he can only ever be a solid option because if he is playing really well, he will miss half the season. To get him over here might cost too much to justify a merely alright full back

The Edinburgh Rugby team to face Ospreys at BT Murrayfield in tomorrow night’s 2020-21 Guinness PRO14 season opener has today been named by Head Coach Richard Cockerill (Saturday 3 October, kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports.

With a number of key players injured and unavailable, the capital side are forced to reshuffle their squad, with six changes to the side that faced Bordeaux Bègles in last month’s Challenge Cup Quarter-Final.

In the back-three, Blair Kinghorn and Duhan van der Merwe both miss out through injury and are replaced by Damien Hoyland and Jamie Farndale at fullback and wing respectively.

Meanwhile, a reshuffled back-row sees Nick Haining, Magnus Bradbury and Luke Crosbie all handed Round 1 starts with Viliame Mata and Jamie Ritchie unavailable.

Now back fully fit, Scotland internationalists Mark Bennett and WP Nel both return to the matchday 23 after missing out on the Quarter-Final test in Bordeaux two weeks ago.


Ahead of the season opener, Head Coach Richard Cockerill, said: “We’ve had a little bit of downtime, but we’ve been back in this week and trained well in preparation for the new season.

“We've had some pretty good preparation. Glasgow twice, Ulster and Bordeaux – that's the toughest pre-season we've played. We've got to use that experience and we’ll look to put our best team on the field and go try to get as many points as we can.

“We'll be well prepped and we’ve got a good record at BT Murrayfield. We want to get off to a good start at home.”

On the aforementioned Ritchie - who is unavailable for selection in order to comply with the necessary Scottish Government Covid-19 isolation protocols and to protect the medical integrity of the wider squad – Cockerill, said:

“Jamie misses out this week as he’s been in contact with a family member who is currently self-isolating due to a potential contact. He hasn’t tested positive, but we’re being extra cautious and following all the necessary Scottish Government Covid-19 protocols.”

In the back-three, Hoyland and Farndale are named at fullback and wing as Scotland star Darcy Graham retains his place on the opposite flank.

A refreshed centre pairing sees Bennett return from injury to partner Chris Dean in midfield, while scrum-half Charlie Shiel and stand-off Jaco van der Walt continue at half-back.

Captain and hooker Stuart McInally packs down alongside props Pierre Schoeman and Simon Berghan in an unchanged front-row, while Scotland locks Grant Gilchrist and Ben Toolis continue in the second-row.

No.8 Haining anchors a new-look back-row that sees flankers Bradbury and Crosbie complete the pack.



Edinburgh Rugby team to face Ospreys at BT Murrayfield in the Guinness PRO14
Saturday 3 October (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports




15. Damien Hoyland (75)



14. Darcy Graham (33)

13. Mark Bennett (38)

12. Chris Dean (92)

11. Jamie Farndale (7)



10. Jaco van der Walt (58)

9. Charlie Shiel (20)



1. Pierre Schoeman (44)

2. Stuart McInally (146) CAPTAIN

3. Simon Berghan (82)

4. Ben Toolis (121)

5. Grant Gilchrist (151)

6. Magnus Bradbury (78)

7. Luke Crosbie (41)

8. Nick Haining (14)



Replacements: 16. David Cherry (22) 17. Jamie Bhatti (12) 18. WP Nel (142) 19. Andrew Davidson (3) 20. Hamish Watson (111) 21. Dan Nutton (1) 22. Nathan Chamberlain (2) 23. George Taylor (23)



Unavailable due to injury: Rory Sutherland, Matt Gordon, Blair Kinghorn, Nic Groom, Duhan van der Merwe, Henry Prygos, Viliame Mata, Fraser McKenzie

Jamie Ritchie is unavailable for selection for the upcoming game in order to comply with the necessary Scottish Government Covid-19 isolation protocols and to protect the medical integrity of the wider squad

Jamie Ritchie self isolating having come in contact with a family member who tested positive.

A sign of things to come!

(Deleted as I am blind and can't read who a home team is)

The game is in Scotland!

RDW wrote:The game is in Scotland!

Who cares? The rugby club are playing in Galway.

jimbopip wrote:

RDW wrote:The game is in Scotland!

Who cares? The rugby club are playing in Galway.

Connacht?

RDW wrote:The game is in Scotland!

It would help if I could read

Jaco not looking like a particularly good option today! The one time his kicking needs to be on point! Missing the penalties is one thing but missing touch twice in a row is pretty poor for a specialist fly half.

Ospreys are definitely playing like a team with a point to prove. Edinburgh looked dejected. Lingering hangover from last season it seems.

Agree VDW having a poor game with the boot, just when he needs to be on point.

Got one at the death of the first half though, to keep Edinburgh just about in sight.

Edinburgh are having a bit of a shocker, despite the conditions.

There is clearly a post knock out hangover going on.

Horrible performance from Edinburgh tonight. So many players having poor games. When was the last time McInally and Schoeman played well??

Webb really is a class act at 9, and that Ospreys 12 has a future.

I want to see more of Taylor at 12 this season. He's so abrasive.

Graham just doesn't give up. If only we could inject his spirit into some of our forwards.

Poor result for Edinburgh, not just that they lost, but more that they never really looked like winning.

They need to re-set and soon, not point worrying about what happened at the end of last season.

Very poor conditions, Rhys Webb played them better though. We’re only one game in so perhaps not a good measure just yet. Edinburgh look like they could have done with a longer break. Was VDM playing?

No VDM, still injured

You are right about the control Webb and Myler brought to the conditions, probably what won the Spreys the game

That's a grim result to wake up to.

Could be a long season for Edinburgh if this doesn't change soon! Our form has been utter garbage other than the last 20 minutes against Glasgow in the first game back and the first 30 minutes against Ulster.

What's happened to Nick Grigg?

He looks like he's been following the Andy Goode conditioning programme. Is he about the retire? Move to prop? He looks in terrible condition.

Conversely I think he's just put on a bit more muscle - I thought he actually still looked really sharp.

When you're 5ft 9 and as stocky as he is you're going to look a bit rotund!

Well Stan, here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten me into

RDW wrote:Conversely I think he's just put on a bit more muscle - I thought he actually still looked really sharp.

When you're 5ft 9 and as stocky as he is you're going to look a bit rotund!

Meatball mk ii. He's trying to shake off the pocket battleship image and looked to the peak of physical perfection for inspiration.

He'll never have the hair but he's got the neck. Him and Weir would be the IKEA special midfield, with extra gravy.

NeilyBroon wrote:

RDW wrote:Conversely I think he's just put on a bit more muscle - I thought he actually still looked really sharp.

When you're 5ft 9 and as stocky as he is you're going to look a bit rotund!

Meatball mk ii. He's trying to shake off the pocket battleship image and looked to the peak of physical perfection for inspiration.

He'll never have the hair but he's got the neck. Him and Weir would be the IKEA special midfield, with extra gravy.

Been catching up on the games this morning. Glasgow seemed to be very wasteful in that first half and then the forwards gave away far too many silly penalties in the second half.

The moment for me was in the second half when Wilson knocked on an easy ball from Price at the 53 min mark to give Connacht the scrum. Connacht cleared their lines and Jones ran it and tried a chip over the top which was a good idea so no problems there. However, the Glasgow defence from that moment on dealt with Connacht's attack very poorly and allowed them to enter the 22 and ultimately score the 2nd try. At this point being 17 - 10 down you would expect a response from Glasgow as they had been in charge for large parts of the game up until then. And that is exactly what they did with a lovely little set piece move for Jones to glide through a huge gap and score under the posts to make it 17 - 17.

But Glasgow once again were their own worst enemies with Fusaro making a ridiculous, round the neck tackle on the Connacht fullback. That ultimately leads to three easy points for Connacht. Then they make a hash of a Connacht box kick on the restart and P Horne can't get up in time to deal with the quick ball and Glasgow are cut wide open with brilliant bit of play from Wootton and Aki for an excellent try. That is 8 points in quick succession all from Glasgow mistakes.

Luckily Glasgow managed to make it 25 - 24 with 10 mins to go with some great attacking play for the Seymour try. However, more ill discipline by Glasgow's new signing Lokotui with a dumb side entry and then not rolling away allowed Connacht to extend their lead to four points meaning Glasgow basically needed a try to win.

I think you can tell this Glasgow side are in a bit of a transitional phase. A lot of players have left and new ones have come in. Nairn looked like he has potential but he dropped two balls in the first half, one which was a certain try if he had held it. Older heads like Wilson and Fusaro are looking a little past their sell by date, but Fagerson had a very positive game at 8 I thought and Brown was the standout Glasgow forward for me.

Looking at Glasgow's squad, I am surprised they don't have a couple more young Scottish backrowers in there. Edinburgh have Boyle and Darge who are both good prospects, as well their established backrowers and foreign signings. Gordon may well get better and be a bit more dominant this season but otherwise I feel like Glasgow are hoping they can utilise Nakarawa in the backrow when he gets back so Gray, Cummings and Harley can be the go to locks. That could be a winner but it's a shame he's not there now to help Glasgow get off to a good start.

I eas not to dissapointed to be honest.

I was not expecting us to win and was pleased with some of our play.