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The French Open 2020

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Post by sirfredperry Thu 24 Sep 2020, 5:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the draw about to be made for RG, I thought I would get this topic going.

For me - and I say this every year - Rafa is clear favourite, although the strange nature of all sport this Covid-19 year might mean someone else (Thiem? Djoko?) might have a chance.

Halep stands out as the women's favourite, particularly as some of the top women are not appearing. More on this after the draw.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 2:45 pm

And Evans is back level at two sets all. This is going to be a very interesting fifth set.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:07 pm

Nishikoro has a break in the fifth set. Work for Evans to do to stay in the tournament.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:12 pm

And Evans does break back. Nishikori and Evans back on serve in the deciding set.
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Post by slashermcguirk Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:31 pm

Very strange match this one. Evans seems to play at a similar level all the time whereas Nishikori much more up and down. Kei is a much better player but is very erratic.

Bizarrely Nishikori has an incredible 5 set record, I think one of the very best on tour

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:40 pm

Nishikori prevails in five sets. Tough on Dan and he still awaits his first match win at Roland Garros.
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Post by slashermcguirk Sun 27 Sep 2020, 3:42 pm

Fair play to Evans, gave it a good go. Always felt it was on Nishikoris racket as he just has more quality. He has a 23-6 record in 5th set deciders in slams, overall deciding set record of 75%.

I could be mistaken but I think Nishikori and Djokovic have the best deciding set records on tour

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Post by MrInvisible Sun 27 Sep 2020, 5:23 pm

I'm watching Wawrinka v Murray and it's the first match of Andy's I've seen since the comeback. Therefore I can't really compare it to some of his other recent performances with no comparative benchmark.

However, he's just lost a v one-sided 1st set to Wawrinka, is struggling on serve and didn't really dominate any points in that set. That said, he's made a positive start to 2nd set, a love hold, with some more aggressive groundstrokes.

I still think this could be fairly straightforward win for Stan, but hopefully Andy can keep it reasonably competitive.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 27 Sep 2020, 6:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:Should be a straight sets demolition job for Wawrinka over Murray.

And it was. No surprise, alas.

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Post by slashermcguirk Sun 27 Sep 2020, 6:34 pm

He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 6:35 pm

Stan wins in straight sets beating Murray comfortably.

People do need to get perspective here. Murray has been out for a very long time and had a new hip fitted. This was the sixth match of his comeback so in that time what have we learned?

On the positive side he has shown he can still battle to five set wins from two sets down in slams so he's certainly no cripple and the spirit is still there. He has also shown he can compete with the best players around having beaten Zverev in the Western and Southern Open prior to the US Open. Those are points that cannot be argued against. To expect him though to slide back into tournament/slam contending form after so long out is frankly plain stupid especially when Murray lacks that famed fitness regime he'd normally go through prior to the season start. He is not match sharp and that will only come through playing more matches. I get what Mark Petchey says about looking to change things but at 33 I can't see that being possible.

It is up to Andy how he wants to take things forward from here. Its not down to Joe Bloggs to say he should retire. If he's happy being back on court and striving to rebuild his career then that is all that matters. As is the right of any tennis player they decide when to retire. At least (at present) it will be Andy's choosing and not forced upon him a la Australian Open 2019.

I have never posted on here that he was going to come storming back and win matches left, right and centre. For me its an achievement in itself that he has made it back onto court at all and actually won matches at the highest level with a metal hip. He most probably won't re-find the winning touch in slams/masters tournaments but he'll always give it his best in trying.

Anyway elsewhere Konta on the ropes against Coco Gauff trailing 6-3 2-2.
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Post by slashermcguirk Sun 27 Sep 2020, 6:40 pm

Spot on CC

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Post by Duty281 Sun 27 Sep 2020, 7:06 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

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Post by Just John Sun 27 Sep 2020, 7:17 pm

Just John wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Match of the First Round definitely Andy V Stan.

If Stan turns up, he should see off Andy and be relatively comfortable, maybe in four sets. Murray is nowhere near the elite level anymore, and the way FAA dismantled him in New York, showcases how far away he is right now. Wawrinka, on his best surface, is a clear favourite.

Yep, as expected really. Shame to see Murray like this, but it’s no real surprise to see him dismantled by Wawrinka, especially on this surface.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 7:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 27 Sep 2020, 7:57 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

I'm sorry if the use of the word 'demolition' upset you, but that's exactly what it was. And I haven't pretended that Wawrinka is a 'bum' - indeed yesterday you were telling me Murray had the superior H2H record and won the previous match between the two, now you're bringing up the same clay statistics that I mentioned yesterday.

My fairy tale assumption doesn't exist. As said previously, I don't think Murray will get anywhere near the top level again, where he's competing for slams and the like, because his injury first sustained in 2017 ended his time at the elite level, and I wish he would retire soon. I admire his courage immensely, but he's putting himself through a tremendous ordeal for precious little gain. It's like watching a post-prime boxer try to reclaim lost glory as he slowly slips down the ladder.  Very sad to see.

I'm not sure why dismissing his chances against Wawrinka was pathetic. The general consensus was that Wawrinka would win comfortably and he did.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 27 Sep 2020, 8:11 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

Complete rubbish that you've made up for no reason other than not liking the fact others stated the obvious that Wawrinka would win with ease based on the obvious fact that Murray will never return to the top level. You'll trot out the same tired falsehood that this return is only in its infancy despite starting last year at queens.

No knowledge of how he feels? It's almost as if we can watch him struggle through matches.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 8:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

I'm sorry if the use of the word 'demolition' upset you, but that's exactly what it was. And I haven't pretended that Wawrinka is a 'bum' - indeed yesterday you were telling me Murray had the superior H2H record and won the previous match between the two, now you're bringing up the same clay statistics that I mentioned yesterday.

My fairy tale assumption doesn't exist. As said previously, I don't think Murray will get anywhere near the top level again, where he's competing for slams and the like, because his injury first sustained in 2017 ended his time at the elite level, and I wish he would retire soon. I admire his courage immensely, but he's putting himself through a tremendous ordeal for precious little gain. It's like watching a post-prime boxer try to reclaim lost glory as he slowly slips down the ladder.  Very sad to see.

I'm not sure why dismissing his chances against Wawrinka was pathetic. The general consensus was that Wawrinka would win comfortably and he did.

Its the tone of your posts towards Murray pre-French Open all with the same tone that is what is pathetic. Like I said I can handle constructive criticism with a fair bit of understanding of Murray's past and the returning of injury for players and understanding how long such recoveries take. Yours takes none of that into account. It is destructive criticism.

I do not have any issue with the claim he won't challenge for a slam again as that is more likely than not as he is 33 and playing with a metal hip. My problem is it is his career. He has toiled to get where he is for 20+ years, suffered many setbacks and injuries, big losses and disappointments along the way. He's undergone a hip replacement to be able to play again at the highest level - all his own choice. He wants to undergo that sacrifice to carry on playing that is his choice and it will be him alone that will be best placed to decide when he's had enough and feels he has no chance of returning to a level of tennis he is comfortable with. One month and six matches in is way too short to make assumptions especially, like I have said before, Murray has historically taken time to return to competitiveness when out for a long time in the past.

So to summarise - Murray will decide when he is done with tennis despite what you or anyone else may want. Just bear in mind how many times in his career he has been written off by armchair fans and proved them wrong.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 8:17 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

Complete rubbish that you've made up for no reason other than not liking the fact others stated the obvious that Wawrinka would win with ease based on the obvious fact that Murray will never return to the top level. You'll trot out the same tired falsehood that this return is only in its infancy despite starting last year at queens.

No knowledge of how he feels? It's almost as if we can watch him struggle through matches.

Last year at Queens?? Yes well over a year ago and that was doubles he played in not singles. That just sums up your complete lack of tennis knowledge.
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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 27 Sep 2020, 8:20 pm

Wow great input Craig, almost as if he didn't use the doubles as part of his return and used it as a stepping stone back into singles, my mistake we'll ignore that and act as if his return has just started.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 27 Sep 2020, 8:57 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

I'm sorry if the use of the word 'demolition' upset you, but that's exactly what it was. And I haven't pretended that Wawrinka is a 'bum' - indeed yesterday you were telling me Murray had the superior H2H record and won the previous match between the two, now you're bringing up the same clay statistics that I mentioned yesterday.

My fairy tale assumption doesn't exist. As said previously, I don't think Murray will get anywhere near the top level again, where he's competing for slams and the like, because his injury first sustained in 2017 ended his time at the elite level, and I wish he would retire soon. I admire his courage immensely, but he's putting himself through a tremendous ordeal for precious little gain. It's like watching a post-prime boxer try to reclaim lost glory as he slowly slips down the ladder.  Very sad to see.

I'm not sure why dismissing his chances against Wawrinka was pathetic. The general consensus was that Wawrinka would win comfortably and he did.

Its the tone of your posts towards Murray pre-French Open all with the same tone that is what is pathetic. Like I said I can handle constructive criticism with a fair bit of understanding of Murray's past and the returning of injury for players and understanding how long such recoveries take. Yours takes none of that into account. It is destructive criticism.

I do not have any issue with the claim he won't challenge for a slam again as that is more likely than not as he is 33 and playing with a metal hip. My problem is it is his career. He has toiled to get where he is for 20+ years, suffered many setbacks and injuries, big losses and disappointments along the way. He's undergone a hip replacement to be able to play again at the highest level - all his own choice. He wants to undergo that sacrifice to carry on playing that is his choice and it will be him alone that will be best placed to decide when he's had enough and feels he has no chance of returning to a level of tennis he is comfortable with. One month and six matches in is way too short to make assumptions especially, like I have said before, Murray has historically taken time to return to competitiveness when out for a long time in the past.

So to summarise - Murray will decide when he is done with tennis despite what you or anyone else may want. Just bear in mind how many times in his career he has been written off by armchair fans and proved them wrong.

It wasn't criticism, it was a prediction - proved right by subsequent events.

I agree that Murray will retire whenever he chooses to. I don't claim to have any agency over him.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 27 Sep 2020, 9:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

I'm sorry if the use of the word 'demolition' upset you, but that's exactly what it was. And I haven't pretended that Wawrinka is a 'bum' - indeed yesterday you were telling me Murray had the superior H2H record and won the previous match between the two, now you're bringing up the same clay statistics that I mentioned yesterday.

My fairy tale assumption doesn't exist. As said previously, I don't think Murray will get anywhere near the top level again, where he's competing for slams and the like, because his injury first sustained in 2017 ended his time at the elite level, and I wish he would retire soon. I admire his courage immensely, but he's putting himself through a tremendous ordeal for precious little gain. It's like watching a post-prime boxer try to reclaim lost glory as he slowly slips down the ladder.  Very sad to see.

I'm not sure why dismissing his chances against Wawrinka was pathetic. The general consensus was that Wawrinka would win comfortably and he did.

Its the tone of your posts towards Murray pre-French Open all with the same tone that is what is pathetic. Like I said I can handle constructive criticism with a fair bit of understanding of Murray's past and the returning of injury for players and understanding how long such recoveries take. Yours takes none of that into account. It is destructive criticism.

I do not have any issue with the claim he won't challenge for a slam again as that is more likely than not as he is 33 and playing with a metal hip. My problem is it is his career. He has toiled to get where he is for 20+ years, suffered many setbacks and injuries, big losses and disappointments along the way. He's undergone a hip replacement to be able to play again at the highest level - all his own choice. He wants to undergo that sacrifice to carry on playing that is his choice and it will be him alone that will be best placed to decide when he's had enough and feels he has no chance of returning to a level of tennis he is comfortable with. One month and six matches in is way too short to make assumptions especially, like I have said before, Murray has historically taken time to return to competitiveness when out for a long time in the past.

So to summarise - Murray will decide when he is done with tennis despite what you or anyone else may want. Just bear in mind how many times in his career he has been written off by armchair fans and proved them wrong.

It wasn't criticism, it was a prediction - proved right by subsequent events.

I agree that Murray will retire whenever he chooses to. I don't claim to have any agency over him.

Fair enough.

It is not a brainstormer though predicting a Wawrinka win. Taking all things into consideration it is stating the obvious.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 27 Sep 2020, 10:25 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
slashermcguirk wrote:He is only returning from injury in fairness, I didn’t see the match but if Wawrinka was in the zone he is virtually unplayable. He is also a very good clay court player.

I am surprised Murray didn’t make it more competitive but clay was always going to be a tough ask and Wawrinka was a nitemare 1st round draw. No Murray bashing please


I'm not Murray bashing, I made a prediction of the Wawrinka/Murray match yesterday and was told it was "utter crap".

Events have vindicated what I (and others) said. It gives me no pleasure to see a once-great player like Murray struggling so much.

I stand by it being utter crap. Why? Well use of the word 'demolition' for one. Not a word I have seen you use in any other tennis match context but you roll it out for a Murray match. On top of that the pretence that Wawrinka is some sort of a bum. He is a former winner at RG and is seeded 16 here. Wawrinka leads clay head-to-head now 5-1 and Murray came here playing his first clay match in over three years and you are expecting him to be going toe-to-toe with him? Really? Let me remind you that this was his sixth match back on the full circuit for almost a year and is coming back with a metal hip replacement - unheard of in singles tennis.

Where my gripe lies is in your fairy tale assumption (as I see it) that Murray was going to come back from a year out of the sport with a metal hip, no real fitness training regime that he usually has, no match sharpness and getting use to how much he can push his body and expect him to slip into contending for titles and slams from Day One. I have followed Murray throughout his career and he has many injuries with some lengthy spells out and each time it has taken him time to work himself back into shape and form. But what the heck he's getting met with comments like he should retire by people with no knowledge about how he feels whatsoever.

I've never been on here saying he's back and he's going to win this and that. During his career I have been his harshest critic at times (scroll back over the years of my posts here and you will see them). I can take criticism of Murray when it is fair and balanced and constructive but the dismissive stuff is just pathetic.

I'm sorry if the use of the word 'demolition' upset you, but that's exactly what it was. And I haven't pretended that Wawrinka is a 'bum' - indeed yesterday you were telling me Murray had the superior H2H record and won the previous match between the two, now you're bringing up the same clay statistics that I mentioned yesterday.

My fairy tale assumption doesn't exist. As said previously, I don't think Murray will get anywhere near the top level again, where he's competing for slams and the like, because his injury first sustained in 2017 ended his time at the elite level, and I wish he would retire soon. I admire his courage immensely, but he's putting himself through a tremendous ordeal for precious little gain. It's like watching a post-prime boxer try to reclaim lost glory as he slowly slips down the ladder.  Very sad to see.

I'm not sure why dismissing his chances against Wawrinka was pathetic. The general consensus was that Wawrinka would win comfortably and he did.

Its the tone of your posts towards Murray pre-French Open all with the same tone that is what is pathetic. Like I said I can handle constructive criticism with a fair bit of understanding of Murray's past and the returning of injury for players and understanding how long such recoveries take. Yours takes none of that into account. It is destructive criticism.

I do not have any issue with the claim he won't challenge for a slam again as that is more likely than not as he is 33 and playing with a metal hip. My problem is it is his career. He has toiled to get where he is for 20+ years, suffered many setbacks and injuries, big losses and disappointments along the way. He's undergone a hip replacement to be able to play again at the highest level - all his own choice. He wants to undergo that sacrifice to carry on playing that is his choice and it will be him alone that will be best placed to decide when he's had enough and feels he has no chance of returning to a level of tennis he is comfortable with. One month and six matches in is way too short to make assumptions especially, like I have said before, Murray has historically taken time to return to competitiveness when out for a long time in the past.

So to summarise - Murray will decide when he is done with tennis despite what you or anyone else may want. Just bear in mind how many times in his career he has been written off by armchair fans and proved them wrong.

It wasn't criticism, it was a prediction - proved right by subsequent events.

I agree that Murray will retire whenever he chooses to. I don't claim to have any agency over him.

Fair enough.

It is not a brainstormer though predicting a Wawrinka win. Taking all things into consideration it is stating the obvious.

Well, yes, I thought so as well.

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Post by slashermcguirk Sun 27 Sep 2020, 10:29 pm

Coming from a big Djokovic fan for many years, can we not just salute Murray for giving it a go. I wouldn’t write him off yet. He is such a tough competitor and I really admire him. I have never been a ‘fan’ but always have huge respect for him.

Let’s be honest facing Wawrinka in round one in cool damp conditions was the worst possible scenario. Ideally he would have got a kinder draw and maybe worked his way into the tournament. Wawrinka is the type of player that takes the racket out of your hand, when he brings his A game, he is absolutely lethal.

I think it will be a very tough road back for Murray but it wouldn’t surprise me if he causes more upsets before he retires, for now kudos to him for even getting to this point.


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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 10:22 am

It looks like most of today's play will be on Philipe Chartrier under the roof as rain is falling and forecast for much of the day.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 10:34 am

At present Petra Kvitova on court and goes a break up on Dodin. She leads 5-3 in the only match being played at Roland Garros. Apparently, the rain may clear up later in the afternoon.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 11:27 am

And Kvitova wins 6-3 7-5.
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Post by sirfredperry Mon 28 Sep 2020, 11:39 am

Saw almost all the Murray match. Andy was overpowered, didn't serve that well and was up against a very good Stan the Man - hence the score.

I don't think Murray will be upset about losing matches but he may not be too happy if he gets overwhelmed.

The postings above sum up the situation well. It was always a big ask for Andy to come into the French with no clay-court practice.

Saw a bit of the Konta match. Jo hit huge numbers of UEs. I thought Gauff might be the sort of player JK could beat.

Tough on Evans getting Nishi. Dan was not too complimentary about the Wilson balls they're using this year. Wouldn't give them to a dog to chew, was his opinion. Wonder if Rafa will like them?

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 11:44 am

A cracker about to start on Philipe Chartrier - Thiem V Cilic. Drying up outside so play could start soon on the outside courts.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 11:47 am

Jim Courier hitting the nail smack on the head for me about Murray on ITV4. Fully agree and goes along with what I was trying to say yesterday. And like I said yesterday Murray in his press conference was asked whether he could change his playing style and he said he couldn't see it as that would be too difficult at this stage but he has thought about it.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:23 pm

Cilic and Thiem on serve after an exchange of early breaks. Cilic using the drop shot well as Thiem hugs the back of the court.

This could be a real cracker.

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:37 pm

First set to Thiem 6-4 after breaking at 4-4 by winning two points from fairly impossible positions.

Main prob for Cilic is that he played quite well in that set but still lost it.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:41 pm

Thiem broke at the end of the first set to take it 6-4. He's threatening Cilic's serve early in the second set now.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 12:42 pm

And Thiem does break and leads 6-4 1-0.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 1:22 pm

Thiem in firm control now leading 6-4 6-3.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 1:24 pm

A glimmer of hope for Cilic? He breaks in the first game of the third set.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 2:02 pm

That glimmer of hope was extinguished though and Thiem wins in straight sets.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 2:46 pm

No.14 seed Fabio Fognini in trouble. He has just gone two sets to one down to Mikhail Kukushkin with two and a half hours played.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 2:51 pm

British qualifier Liam Broady about to start his match against Czech Jiri Vesely.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 3:06 pm

Another seed crashes out as Fognini loses in four sets to Kukushkin.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 3:12 pm

Vesely an early break up on Broady. He leads 3-1.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 3:49 pm

Vesely now leads 6-2 1-1. Tough this for Broady who has qualified for his first slam at the age of 26.
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Post by sirfredperry Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:07 pm

Saw the first part of the Thiem match before having to go out. Thought Cilic would get at least one set.

Must be a relief to Thiem who was handed, at least on paper, a really difficult opening match.

A bit of a surprise to see F A-A go out today and Fognini, normally pretty good on clay, has also bitten the dust.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:12 pm

Nadal about to get his campaign under way against Belarussian Gerasimov. Broady battling to stay in the second set. He trails Vesely 2-6 4-5.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:15 pm

And Broady breaks to love and he goes 6-5 up in the second set. He will serve for it shortly.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:24 pm

Liam Broady seals the second set to level at one set all against Jiri Vesely. And breaks at the start of the third to lead 2-6 7-5 1-0.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:35 pm

A marathon match going on between Moutet and Giustino. They are into a deciding set and locked at 5-5 after just over 4 hours play. No final set tie-break at Roland Garros.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:48 pm

Nadal breaks and takes early control of his match. Broady broken in the third set and they are back on serve there and in the marathon match Moutet serving for the match after 4 hours 15 minutes.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 4:57 pm

Vesely powers through the third set and now leads Broads 6-3 5-7 6-3. Marathon match between Moutet and Giuestino locked at 7-7 in the fifth set with 4 hours 24 minutes on the clock.
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Post by sirfredperry Mon 28 Sep 2020, 5:37 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:A marathon match going on between Moutet and Giustino. They are into a deciding set and locked at 5-5 after just over 4 hours play. No final set tie-break at Roland Garros.

Now 10-11 and 5hrs 3 mins!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 28 Sep 2020, 5:40 pm

Vesely beats Broady 6-2 5-7 6-3 6-2.

Meanwhile, the longest match of the tournament still goes on Moutet and Giustine level at 11-11 in the fifth set with 5 hours 7 minutes played.

Nadal looking solid against Gerasimov leading 6-4 5-3.
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