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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:39 am

How have some individuals got to the point where all they do is whinge and moan and complain about other people without any sense of compassion for those less well off than themselves through no fault of their own?

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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:44 am

I have compassion for people who are genuinely in need through no fault of their own but I have no compassion for those who have ended up where they are through their own laziness and lack of endeavour. Why would I?

I would love to see the figures of those who are genuinely in need and those who are simply terrible at managing what little money they have or are just terrible parents. I certainly don't see children around who are short of calories, quite the opposite.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:48 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:How have some individuals got to the point where all they do is whinge and moan and complain about other people without any sense of compassion for those less well off than themselves through no fault of their own?

No fault of their own?

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:57 am

The children of drug addicts for example.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:01 am

super_realist wrote:I have compassion for people who are genuinely in need through no fault of their own but I have no compassion for those who have ended up where they are through their own laziness and lack of endeavour. Why would I?

I would love to see the figures of those who are genuinely in need and those who are simply terrible at managing what little money they have or are just terrible parents. I certainly don't see children around who are short of calories, quite the opposite.

Fair enough but I don't see that compassion on display. All I see is a constant stream of insults, whining and complaining about a seemingly huge bunch of people that you despise for one reason or another.

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:06 am

When you have issues with the parents you ignore the children who are in the position through no fault of their own.

You don't like people who have too many children or can't support them. Fine, but what about the kids?


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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:08 am

super_realist wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Maybe we should forcibly sterilise poor people.
And fat people.
And people who we generally don't like.

What a disgraceful overreaction. Why is it unreasonable to expect people to make better decisions and have greater personal responsibility? How is it that society has got to the point where everything is someone else's fault and that the government has a responsibility to take care of everything?

Disgraceful overreaction! The super realist joke account strikes again.


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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:10 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:Child hunger and poverty isn't a new thing. But, as the Trussell Trust chart shows, it is something that has increased significantly since the Tories came into power in 2010.

And, it is the big bad tories who all voted against helping out kids, so whatever happened in the past is irrelevant when they shot down a chance to help.

Its clearly been a massive own goal.

No it doesn't, it shows that the Trussell Trust which started in 2000 (in the UK) has grown as a charity. I could easily using the same logic say that Child Hunger grew under Tony Blair considering TT didn't exist during the Major and Thatcher years it would be a fairly silly thing to suggest. Also have to take into account funding which grows when discussions around certain issues rise, far too simplistic to look at the numbers at face value.

Perhaps those parents who were living so close to the breadline prior to Covid-19 should consider whether bringing a child into the world makes economic sense, I can guarantee you that I put more research into buying a new car than some people do into becoming parents.

One question. Do you think the years of austerity and caps on benefits of all types did not have an impact on the poorest in society?

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:13 am

super_realist wrote:I have compassion for people who are genuinely in need through no fault of their own but I have no compassion for those who have ended up where they are through their own laziness and lack of endeavour. Why would I?

I would love to see the figures of those who are genuinely in need and those who are simply terrible at managing what little money they have or are just terrible parents. I certainly don't see children around who are short of calories, quite the opposite.

You have shown no compassion on this subject. Which is about children going hungry through no fault of their own. Youve just rambled. Think it is about 1.5m kids getting free meals, thats 1.5m children in need. Happy to answer your question.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:26 am

beninho wrote:When you have issues with the parents you ignore the children who are in the position through no fault of their own.

You don't like people who have too many children or can't support them. Fine, but what about the kids?


It works both ways, by focusing solely on the children we ignore the root causes which in a lot of cases is poor parenting. There is no perfect solution and the simplicity of thinking free meals solves anything is far from reality.

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:28 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:When you have issues with the parents you ignore the children who are in the position through no fault of their own.

You don't like people who have too many children or can't support them. Fine, but what about the kids?


It works both ways, by focusing solely on the children we ignore the root causes which in a lot of cases is poor parenting. There is no perfect solution and the simplicity of thinking free meals solves anything is far from reality.

Probably solves sone kids being hungry. Dont see whats wrong with that.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:43 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:When you have issues with the parents you ignore the children who are in the position through no fault of their own.

You don't like people who have too many children or can't support them. Fine, but what about the kids?


It works both ways, by focusing solely on the children we ignore the root causes which in a lot of cases is poor parenting. There is no perfect solution and the simplicity of thinking free meals solves anything is far from reality.

How about this - there are kids going hungry right now. In many cases this is due to Covid. Let's feed them all over half term and Christmas while we continue to figure out what's the best long term post -covid solutions. Sound like a decent plan?

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:48 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:When you have issues with the parents you ignore the children who are in the position through no fault of their own.

You don't like people who have too many children or can't support them. Fine, but what about the kids?


It works both ways, by focusing solely on the children we ignore the root causes which in a lot of cases is poor parenting. There is no perfect solution and the simplicity of thinking free meals solves anything is far from reality.

How about this - there are kids going hungry right now. In many cases this is due to Covid. Let's feed them all over half term and Christmas while we continue to figure out what's the best long term post -covid solutions. Sound like a decent plan?

No, let's just blame the parents.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:49 am

The parents are sometimes to blame so why would we ignore that?

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 9:59 am

Soul Requiem wrote:The parents are sometimes to blame so why would we ignore that?
How does the short term feeding of kids prevent us from looking at ways to improve parenting? What makes you think that the two approaches are mutually exclusive?

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:05 am

Soul Requiem wrote:The parents are sometimes to blame so why would we ignore that?

And sometimes the parents aren't to blame. Why ignore these cases because you have a bee in your bonnet about not good parenting.

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:08 am

It seems that, unfortunately like most things nowadays, people cannot be reasonable. Its a weird all or nothing kind of thing. We shouldn't help Hungary kids because its the parents fault. Its such an awful view.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:13 am

It would appear that way Ben but alas you'll find that's my view of your opinion not mine.

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Post by beninho Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:20 am

What do you think is unreasonable about my view? I accept that parents cause issues but also think that support shoukd be provided for children that need it, while accepting that in some instances the parents are at fault.

Whats unreasonable?

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Post by superflyweight Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:29 am

The parents are sometimes to blame but the need to support their children doesn't diminish.  

I'm going to make an assumption that I probably have more lived experience of this issue than most of the people on here.  I was brought up in a single parent family (my parents divorced when I was 7) and me, my two sisters and my mum lived in a small two bedroom council house in what was described at the time as one of the poorest and worst council estates in Europe.  

I was one of the lucky ones in that although I would have qualified for free school meals, my mum managed to work split shifts (in what was only a part-time low-paid job that she was over-qualified for) so that she could be home at lunchtimes and then after school to feed us.  My mum made a lot of sacrifices to make sure that we were properly clothed and fed and I don't remember her ever buying anything for herself that was anything less than essential.  However, if my mum had lost her job we would have been relying on school meals and the school holidays would have presented a massive issue and I'm not sure how my mum would have coped with that.  

There were families on our estate that had two parents who went out to work but who were in low-income jobs and who didn't have the benefis of the type of education that would give the opportunities that most of us on here enjoy.  Those families would have been relying on free school meals and the school holidays would have put tighter constraints on what were already limited finances.  

There were other families where the parents didn't work and had no intention of working and who also didn't pay all that much attention to the health and wellbeing of their kids.  For those kids especially, free school meals were essential and christ knows what they ate during the school holidays.  

In a lot of cases, you could point to generations of families who had never worked.  The behaviour learned from the previous generaiton passed onto the next generation and chldren being brought up in an environment in which there woudl be no ambition to do anything else and in which any attempt to "get on" would be massively affected by the chaotic envionment at home.  One of my best friends at school was the son of a low-level drug dealer and his house was constantly full of dodgy strangers there to do deals.  His dad was also in and out of prison, but my friend worked hard at school and had just started training to be a PE teacher when he finally succumbed to his environment and started to take the drugs that his dad was using and dealing.  After dropping out of his course and years of subsequent drug abuse, he killed himself two years ago.  He's left behind his wife to bring up his young daughter on very little income and I'm sure she'll be relying on free school meals.    

Some people have kids when they're in no position to be able to raise them, but you're not going to even begin to address the problems that raises if you don't create the kind of society that will step in to provide support to those that want it and need it.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:51 am

Excellent post. Hopefully it will open a few minds, and maybe a few hearts.

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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 11:05 am

What are the counter arguments to giving some free meals to kids. I am reading here that a few people don't want the government to give out free meals to children but not hearing a lot of reasons other than a vague notion that they don't deserve it if the parents can't be bothered?

Is it a budget thing? A moral hazard thing? what is it?
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Post by superflyweight Thu 29 Oct 2020, 11:15 am

Maybe worried that Labour wants to nationalise children?

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 29 Oct 2020, 11:54 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:Give the balance to Marcus super, apparently there's some kids need feeding...

I don't get to keep it. On Marcus though, rather ironic he grew up hungry under Labour.

Rashford was born in 1997. From age 12 or 13 he was raised under a Tory government.
So, from zero to 12/13??? Honestly.
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 29 Oct 2020, 11:58 am

beninho wrote:It seems that, unfortunately like most things nowadays, people cannot be reasonable. Its a weird all or nothing kind of thing. We shouldn't help Hungary kids because its the parents fault. Its such an awful view.
Why should we help kids in Hungary? Whistle
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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:20 pm

I heard some plank blaming Britain for people dying in the channel yesterday. Rolling Eyes

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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:24 pm

What do people think of Comrade Corbyn being effectively kicked out of the Labour party? laughing laughing laughing
Didn't see that coming. Hopefully he will kick out Flabbot and Rebecca Wrong Daily too.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:35 pm

As a member of the Labour party who specifically joined to make sure that I could vote against the Corbyn wing of the party, I'm glad that they are taking the findings of the report seriously. If Corbyn needs to be suspended because of it, then so be it.

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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:37 pm

Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:52 pm

It's a joyous day seeing Corbyn's reputation dismantled further but unsure what the ramifications for the party itself will be, are the left wing of the party going to simply stand by?

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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 1:53 pm

It's a positive move. Labour simply have to ditch their far left arm if they ever hope to govern, even given the calamitous government we currently have.

Shami Chakribarti was given a peerage for her inquest into anti semitism in the Labour party, and she allegedly found none. Surely questions have to be asked there too?

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Post by superflyweight Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:00 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:It's a joyous day seeing Corbyn's reputation dismantled further but unsure what the ramifications for the party itself will be, are the left wing of the party going to simply stand by?

Think Starmer is essentially daring anyone else to criticise the findings. The party is not going to be able to move on from this if people from within keep denying there was a problem. With any luck, it will persuade the cranks to move on and form their own irrelevant little party that will inevitably become dogged down with in-fighting over whether to form an anarcho-syndicalist commune in Islington or in the more trendy neighbourhood of Dalston.

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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:00 pm

super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.
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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:05 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.

Fly I give you exhibit one of why something that may seem so obvious will be far from easy.

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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:06 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.

Probably better ask the Jewish Labour MP's who left the party about that.
You're on shaky ground there Mac. If I said the same thing about BLM being an overreaction what do you think people would say?

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Post by superflyweight Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:09 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.

Fly I give you exhibit one of why something that may seem so obvious will be far from easy.

Yep.

Accept the findings, put measures in place to address problems identified and move on OR dispute the findings, claim it was an over reaction and allow the label to be applied to the party evermore.

It shouldn't be a difficult choice.

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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:13 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.

Probably better ask the Jewish Labour MP's who left the party about that.
You're on shaky ground there Mac. If I said the same thing about BLM being an overreaction what do you think people would say?

Super, I don't see why labours hand should be forced by a few snowflakes who can't take a bit of mild mocking?
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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:14 pm

Nice wumming Mac.

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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:15 pm

It does sound ridiculous though, doesn't it?
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Post by super_realist Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:19 pm

McLaren wrote:It does sound ridiculous though, doesn't it?

So should a black person just accept being called a n****r?


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Post by pedro Thu 29 Oct 2020, 2:46 pm

Mac is always objective. Especially when it comes to racism.

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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 3:51 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:It does sound ridiculous though, doesn't it?

So should a black person just accept being called a n****r?


Are you kidding me. I think you have succumbed to a comprehension issue.
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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 29 Oct 2020, 4:13 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.
Mac, this is hysterical. This is the mirror image of S_R, but from your leftist perspective. As this shines a poor light on a Party you presumably support in many ways, you're trying to find fault w/ this report. Surely better to accept, learn from, address/correct and move on?
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Post by McLaren Thu 29 Oct 2020, 4:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Fair play to Boring Starmer though. His statement on the findings was exactly what Corbyn should have said about 5 years ago.

Is it just me or were most the antisemitism accusations against labour just over reactions and people being too sensitive? It is madness that Starmer has placated the people making these accusations.
Mac, this is hysterical. This is the mirror image of S_R, but from your leftist perspective. As this shines a poor light on a Party you presumably support in many ways, you're trying to find fault w/ this report. Surely better to accept, learn from, address/correct and move on?

You almost got it.
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Post by BlueCoverman Fri 30 Oct 2020, 6:22 pm

JAS I notice Secret Valley has now been rebranded as Venus Rock. More Cypriot dodgy dealing no doubt?

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Post by beninho Sat 31 Oct 2020, 7:40 am

So, it looks like a 2nd lockdown is coming. Guessing it was only delayed because Starmer said we shoukd have brought it in to cover half term.

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Post by westisbest Sat 31 Oct 2020, 12:29 pm

Just saw that Sean Connery has died.

A lot of people’s favourite bond.

Very good actor.

RIP 007

westisbest

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Post by super_realist Sat 31 Oct 2020, 1:22 pm

westisbest wrote:Just saw that Sean Connery has died.

A lot of people’s favourite bond.

Very good actor.

RIP 007

Well overdue. Been in some great films.

super_realist

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Post by super_realist Sat 31 Oct 2020, 1:23 pm

beninho wrote:So, it looks like a 2nd lockdown is coming. Guessing it was only delayed because Starmer said we shoukd have brought it in to cover half term.

Guaranteed Herr Sturgeon will sneak in there first and do it ahead of England just for points scoring purposes. Horrible little scrap of excrement that she is.

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Post by I'm never wrong Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:11 pm

Government website says golf courses and driving ranges in England are to close.

I'm never wrong

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