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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by JuliusHMarx Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

How have some individuals got to the point where all they do is whinge and moan and complain about other people without any sense of compassion for those less well off than themselves through no fault of their own?

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Post by beninho Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:04 am

And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

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Post by super_realist Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:04 am

I keep repeating it because I keep getting asked about it and to reinforce that it what I was referring to.

Do you deny that public and private schools have access to the same curriculum?

Beninho, people who go to the SAME school don't have the same opportunity for a variety of reasons which may or may not have anything to do with wealth, however they have the same information, so in that sense there is a level playing field at the very least.
Paying for your education doesn't mean you are guaranteed to do better.

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Post by super_realist Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:07 am

beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point. That means that every teacher, regardless of style has to teach certain information. Of course that doesn't mean they are taught the same way as every teacher has a different style, but they do teach the same information.


Last edited by super_realist on Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:08 am

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point.

That doesn't equate to equal opportunity in any way. Information requires teaching.

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Post by super_realist Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:11 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point.

That doesn't equate to equal opportunity in any way. Information requires teaching.

Yes it does. If you are given the same information, you have the same opportunity. Teaching is simply a medium to convey that information. Styles and techniques of teaching differ from teacher to teacher regardless of whether it's fee paying or not.
There's nothing to suggest that a Public School teacher has any special powers which makes them a better teacher and there's no evidence that State School teachers are worse.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:14 am

super_realist wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point.

That doesn't equate to equal opportunity in any way. Information requires teaching.

Yes it does. If you are given the same information, you have the same opportunity. Teaching is simply a medium to convey that information. Styles and techniques of teaching differ from teacher to teacher regardless of whether it's fee paying or not.
There's nothing to suggest that a Public School teacher has any special powers which makes them a better teacher and there's no evidence that State School teachers are worse.

Not it doesn't. Looks like you could have done with some public schooling, might improve your understanding of very simple concepts.

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Post by beninho Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:20 am

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point.

But, your point as pointed out by many, is nonsense. You said access to the same information. Do you think thats the case? Every person has the same access and schooling?

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Post by superflyweight Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:25 am

S_R has a point.  It was a tremendous comfort to me and my classmates sitting in my 4th year Physics class while the local psychopath sat at the back of the room taking potshots at everyone (including the teacher) with an air pistol, that had the teacher been able to actually stand out in the open and speak to the class that he would have been professionally obliged to teach us the same curriculum as the kids that went to fee paying schools.


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Post by JuliusHMarx Tue 03 Nov 2020, 9:31 am

super_realist wrote:I keep repeating it because I keep getting asked about it and to reinforce that it what I was referring to.
You don't keep getting asked about it. You're getting asked about something different. At first I figured you were smart enough to realise this and were deliberately avoiding the question by repeating your previous answer. Now I just think you're a bit dense.

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Post by JAS Tue 03 Nov 2020, 2:19 pm

super_realist wrote:I keep repeating it because I keep getting asked about it and to reinforce that it what I was referring to.

Do you deny that public and private schools have access to the same curriculum?

...however they have the same information, so in that sense there is a level playing field at the very least.

That’s like saying all football teams have the same opportunity because the goalposts are all the same size!!

super_realist wrote:

Paying for your education doesn't mean you are guaranteed to do better.

Of course it doesn’t but it greatly increases ones chances, if it didn’t no parent would pay the fees would they?

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Post by JAS Tue 03 Nov 2020, 2:24 pm

super_realist wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:And wtf does the same access to information mean? Is every school taught in exactly tge same way?

Christ, you are thick. The same information means that EVERY school is taught the same stipulated curriculum by law. I don't normally type in capitals, but you seem completely incapable of understanding a very simple point.

That doesn't equate to equal opportunity in any way. Information requires teaching.

Yes it does. If you are given the same information, you have the same opportunity. Teaching is simply a medium to convey that information. Styles and techniques of teaching differ from teacher to teacher regardless of whether it's fee paying or not.
There's nothing to suggest that a Public School teacher has any special powers which makes them a better teacher and there's no evidence that State School teachers are worse.

Rather oddly, state school teachers are subject to a lot more qualification requirements. Private schools can (and do) use experts in a particular field to teach a subject even if they don’t have the educational qualifications required of a state school teacher.

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Post by BlueCoverman Tue 03 Nov 2020, 2:29 pm

JAS wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:JAS I notice Secret Valley has now been rebranded as Venus Rock. More Cypriot dodgy dealing no doubt?
Hi Blue, the Venus Rock thing has been around for about 7 or 8 years, You're right to think dodgy dealing may have been involved though. Initially I was quite encouraged when it was announced as I thought all the infrastructure would then finally get built but then came the dawning realisation that the big money became a bit reticent about getting closely involved with Aristo. About 6 years ago the Aristo chief exec got dragged through the courts on corruption charges, how he avoided jail I have no idea but. We are no in 2020 and there's still no infrastructure built, the "big money" has moved elsewhere on the island. Such is Cyprus, glad I'm out to be honest.

I wonder if the European Tour making its first visit to Cyprus will make a difference? With the stunning pictures of Aphrodite Hills being viewed worldwide for two weeks, maybe the resulting interest may stimulate some activity? Totally appreciate why you are glad to be out though.

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Post by JAS Tue 03 Nov 2020, 4:55 pm

BlueCoverman wrote:
JAS wrote:
BlueCoverman wrote:JAS I notice Secret Valley has now been rebranded as Venus Rock. More Cypriot dodgy dealing no doubt?
Hi Blue, the Venus Rock thing has been around for about 7 or 8 years, You're right to think dodgy dealing may have been involved though. Initially I was quite encouraged when it was announced as I thought all the infrastructure would then finally get built but then came the dawning realisation that the big money became a bit reticent about getting closely involved with Aristo. About 6 years ago the Aristo chief exec got dragged through the courts on corruption charges, how he avoided jail I have no idea but. We are no in 2020 and there's still no infrastructure built, the "big money" has moved elsewhere on the island. Such is Cyprus, glad I'm out to be honest.

I wonder if the European Tour making its first visit to Cyprus will make a difference? With the stunning pictures of Aphrodite Hills being viewed worldwide for two weeks, maybe the resulting interest may stimulate some activity? Totally appreciate why you are glad to be out though.  

I don't think it'll make the blindest bit of difference Blue, a few dozen more golfers over a few months after everything opens up again isn't going to touch it, even if it became an annual ET event. I know I'm now clearly biased against it as a place to invest because I have first hand experience of how corrupt they are. As further corruption stories trickle out (and they will) it will simply put many (not all) investors off so it's never going to be say a Dubai in terms of development.

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Post by JAS Tue 03 Nov 2020, 5:03 pm

Meanwhile, when I was off work last week I took the opportunity to visit the local history centre to do some research on the house my partner & I are purchasing. Wasn't able to build a comprehensive list from my first visit but I did find out the ownership from around 1840 (when the Tythe listings were done). Turns out the owner was the son in law of a rather famous 19th Century political economist.

Found another titbit about some poor sod getting a 2 month stretch in the nick for stealing apples from the orchard.

All in all not exactly a fine example of a house of Socialist virtue :-p

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Post by McLaren Tue 03 Nov 2020, 6:15 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:Is it a fact that private schools give a better education? Not necessarily....
Depends how measured, I guess. In the main, however, they're vastly better resourced, meaning opportunities that state schools can't offer. Don't know for certain, but I'd wager their staff/student ratios are better as a result as well.
They may get some Tim-nice-but-dim characters, but even so, they perhaps allow such to maximise their chances, whereas the same at a state school may never do so.


Super

I wonder if you would start to understand where everyone else is coming from if you would try and address the issue that although the same curriculum is delivered in private and state schools there is a difference in how that curriculum is delivered?


And possibly think about what happens to pupils who start to struggle in both systems? And I mean struggle at any level, from trying to move from a B to an A or just meeting the basics of reading and writing. Do you think that the extra support available in the private system both in School and at home can help improve a pupils performance?

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Post by JAS Wed 04 Nov 2020, 9:27 am

What a complete cluster***k... Time to send in the U.N. Election observers??

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 04 Nov 2020, 12:02 pm

JAS wrote:What a complete cluster***k... Time to send in the U.N. Election observers??
🤷 Fat Lady hasn't sung yet...
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Post by JAS Wed 04 Nov 2020, 12:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
JAS wrote:What a complete cluster***k... Time to send in the U.N. Election observers??
🤷 Fat Lady hasn't sung yet...

Indeed, she’s going to have to hang around on the stage for days looking like an absolute lemon :-p

Re my original point, this was a nation that wades into despotic banana Republics the world over preaching about the absolute need for free and fair democratic elections and yet here we are, the incumbent claiming both fraud AND that he’s won in the same sentence and then also saying stop counting!!! WTAF??
Glass houses stones and all that.

If nothing else they’ve surely lost the legitimacy to lecture anyone about democracy regardless of how this charade plays out.




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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 04 Nov 2020, 2:05 pm

JAS wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
JAS wrote:What a complete cluster***k... Time to send in the U.N. Election observers??
🤷 Fat Lady hasn't sung yet...

Indeed, she’s going to have to hang around on the stage for days looking like an absolute lemon :-p

Re my original point, this was a nation that wades into despotic banana Republics the world over preaching about the absolute need for free and fair democratic elections and yet here we are, the incumbent claiming both fraud AND that he’s won in the same sentence and then also saying stop counting!!! WTAF??
Glass houses stones and all that.

If nothing else they’ve surely lost the legitimacy to lecture anyone about democracy regardless of how this charade plays out.



Yep. That point made on various news outlets too. Not good, overall, for anyone that believes in democracy. Personally, I think this 'cult of personality' leadership that's in vogue just now is something we have to get through, while hoping not too much damage is done while it happens.
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Post by beninho Fri 06 Nov 2020, 7:11 am

Trump really is despicable.

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Post by JAS Fri 06 Nov 2020, 8:26 am

Ouch, how to carelessly ship 2 points :-(
Still, when a 3-3 draw away in Lisbon feels like a defeat then its clear significant progress has been made.

Meanwhile Celtic are clearly shaping up to concentrate on the league!!

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Post by JAS Fri 06 Nov 2020, 10:38 am

Ooh, as kind of expected, mail in ballots have just turned Georgia Blue with only a couple of thousand left to count so that should be that. Nevada should do it anyway when they decide to finish counting. PA could also go the same as Georgia so in reality Biden is going to finish quite some way ahead. Lawyers must be licking their lips at the fees they're going to collect when the Idiot (soon to be no longer) in Chief raise legal challenges in every state he thinks he should have won. Pretty much a consummate lesson in how to embarrass oneself and ones country when the whole world is watching :-p

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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 06 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

Sad for the lad, eh? Hahahahaha. A more upbeat end to the week.
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Post by Shotrock Fri 06 Nov 2020, 3:44 pm

Well stated JAS.

It appears inevitable Trump will be voted out. Look for republican support to start cracking in the House and Senate. Those people want to be electable in the future.

Don't get me started on why I think the electoral system is goofy in this day and age.


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Post by super_realist Sun 08 Nov 2020, 8:01 am

Shotrock wrote:Well stated JAS.

It appears inevitable Trump will be voted out. Look for republican support to start cracking in the House and Senate. Those people want to be electable in the future.

Don't get me started on why I think the electoral system is goofy in this day and age.


It's not just how you do elections, but that you'll let anyone without political experience but who has sufficient financial backing to lead your country.  It's gratifying that there is always a country worse than Britain.

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Post by beninho Sun 08 Nov 2020, 11:20 am

Hopefully one of the government covid appointees given a job for who she knows not what she knows will be dumped soon.

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Post by super_realist Sun 08 Nov 2020, 12:11 pm

To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

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Post by McLaren Sun 08 Nov 2020, 1:18 pm

super_realist wrote:To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

I don't know how you can say that. It is not possible to compare ourselves to any other country so for all we know the Government and SAGE are doing the best anyone could for the UK.
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Post by BlueCoverman Sun 08 Nov 2020, 3:15 pm

I'm still trying to get my head round how my golf course is closed this morning, but literally hundreds of people were walking on the sea wall that runs along the side of it. Obviously can't spread COVID if not carrying a golf club, can with! Laugh

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Post by Soul Requiem Sun 08 Nov 2020, 3:32 pm

It's far easier for the public to digest no sport of any kind than have a list of exemptions, too many people were feigning ignorance last time.

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Post by super_realist Sun 08 Nov 2020, 4:49 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

I don't know how you can say that. It is not possible to compare ourselves to any other country so for all we know the Government and SAGE are doing the best anyone could for the UK.

I didn't compare to any other country did I? You don't need to make a comparison to see it has been handled badly.

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Post by beninho Sun 08 Nov 2020, 6:26 pm

Regarding golf if its ok for someone to play golf, is it ok for people to play tennis, and bowls. Then can kids play football or rugby?

Where is the line?

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Post by super_realist Sun 08 Nov 2020, 7:51 pm

beninho wrote:Regarding golf if its ok for someone to play golf, is it ok for people to play tennis, and bowls. Then can kids play football or rugby?

Where is the line?

Well quite. If you can't play golf, why are you allowed to go for a walk?
Not sure you can compare an 11 v 11contact sport v what is effectively a glorified walk in the park.

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Post by McLaren Sun 08 Nov 2020, 9:18 pm

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

I don't know how you can say that. It is not possible to compare ourselves to any other country so for all we know the Government and SAGE are doing the best anyone could for the UK.

I didn't compare to any other country did I? You don't need to make a comparison to see it has been handled badly.

Then how do you know things could be better?
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Post by BlueCoverman Sun 08 Nov 2020, 10:13 pm

beninho wrote:Regarding golf if its ok for someone to play golf, is it ok for people to play tennis, and bowls. Then can kids play football or rugby?

Where is the line?

The line is none of those things for a few short weeks of course, I was just playing Devils Advocate. But you can't legislate for numpties all taking their Sunday walk in the same place, just because the weather is nice.

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 6:33 am

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

I don't know how you can say that. It is not possible to compare ourselves to any other country so for all we know the Government and SAGE are doing the best anyone could for the UK.

I didn't compare to any other country did I? You don't need to make a comparison to see it has been handled badly.

Then how do you know things could be better?

Because they've changed position, lied about statistics and ignored other options.

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Post by beninho Mon 09 Nov 2020, 7:55 am

I'm probably as much an expert on virus controls as you. And you are definitely a bigger fan of the government then me. And I dont think they have covered themselves in glory.

Though in general I dont think changing positions is that bad, though I guess it depends on what you change or when you change.

I've not noticed any lies, though not to say that hasn't happened.

Not sure what options have been ignored, we've been in lockdown, out of lockdown and advised to go to work and resteraunts. We've had tier restrictions and now a different form of lockdown. Seems pretty full list.

The track and trace seems to be a farce, the money being spent on ppe contracts seems dodgy as fck.

I don't know what they should have done differently.

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 8:20 am

Whitty and Valance had to apologise last week for giving out outdated and scaremongering statistics. 

I actually thought initially they had done a decent job, but it was SAGE who declared we didn't need to go into lockdown before we did, furthermore the likes of WHO have made claims that aren't backed up in fact either. We had claims about face masks not being necessary, now all of a sudden they're mandatory. It's all a bit of a mess. 

In terms of things they have ignored, they seem married to only one branch of science and ignore all the rest, which is in itself unscientific.  I'm not saying there is a right route or method, but they won't do anything other than their one method.

Track and trace has been horrendous, but then again (and I'm not trying to make a comparison here) but other countries with supposedly good track and trace schemes are now doing terribly. So was it ever a solution?

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 09 Nov 2020, 10:08 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:To be fair, everyone involved with Covid on behalf of the government is doing a rotten job. Sage included.

I don't know how you can say that. It is not possible to compare ourselves to any other country so for all we know the Government and SAGE are doing the best anyone could for the UK.

I didn't compare to any other country did I? You don't need to make a comparison to see it has been handled badly.

Then how do you know things could be better?

Because they've changed position1, lied about statistics2 and ignored other options3.
1 And? This isn't precise science and its a new pathogen.
2Arguable.
3 How do you know? You don't.
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Post by McLaren Mon 09 Nov 2020, 12:22 pm

Super I am surprised you haven't realised that I am yanking your chain. Of course this government have ballsed up their covid response.

I was just surprised to see you say it after the months we spent arguing about how you couldn't know whether they were doing a good job, back in March and April.
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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 12:36 pm

I knew you were joking Mac, you never post anything which is serious.
I initially thought they were doing an OK job given the available evidence, I even thought Hancock was the standout person for the government in the beginning. Clearly it's a very difficult job to govern in a pandemic, and I wouldn't want to be in charge, whilst the sort of hindsight that Keir Starmer uses isn't remotely helpful, but clearly the government (and the devolved parliaments), supported by SAGE have made a right mess in recent months, although much of it could also be lain at the door of idiotic Brits.

Apparently though Pfizer now have a vaccine with a 90% success rate, so we're all saved anyway.

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Post by JAS Mon 09 Nov 2020, 1:05 pm

super_realist wrote:
beninho wrote:Regarding golf if its ok for someone to play golf, is it ok for people to play tennis, and bowls. Then can kids play football or rugby?

Where is the line?

Well quite. If you can't play golf, why are you allowed to go for a walk?
Not sure you can compare an 11 v 11contact sport v what is effectively a glorified walk in the park.

Because the majority of people either struggle with listening or comprehending the rules/guidance unfortunately have to be boiled down to their most simplistic binary form. In a sense it’s similar to locking down Cornwall because of Manchester’s infection rate. People can’t or won’t cope with even the mildest logistical differences/ complications. To be fair the flame of any confusion in that regard consistently has petrol poured on it by our wonderful media who parade around seeking anomalies.

Golf could happen without having any effect on infection rates but as soon as you opened up golf ALL other sports would want the same regardless of their Covid risk profile. The government has so little trust and credibility left that there’s no way they could make an exception for any one mass participation sport  and not have a backlash....yes there’s always fox-hunting but that’s not mass participation and they’d just happily ride out the backlash on that one. Remember...we’re all in this together :-p

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Post by JAS Mon 09 Nov 2020, 2:58 pm

Looks there's a bit of vaccine excitement, stock markets going a bit mental. Johnson addressing the nation at 5:00pm

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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 3:05 pm

Not good news for David Icke and Piers Corbyn.

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Post by McLaren Mon 09 Nov 2020, 4:27 pm

super_realist wrote:Not good news for David Icke and Piers Corbyn.

have you just realised that climate change isn't a hoax?
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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 4:31 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Not good news for David Icke and Piers Corbyn.

have you just realised that climate change isn't a hoax?


Mac, we have been through this before.

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Post by McLaren Mon 09 Nov 2020, 9:33 pm

I am not sure I can ever tire of laughing at your stance on climate change. It is always humorous when you find out a so called rationalist has a bat shit stance on something.
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Post by super_realist Mon 09 Nov 2020, 9:50 pm

McLaren wrote:I am not sure I can ever tire of laughing at your stance on climate change. It is always humorous when you find out a so called rationalist has a bat Poopie stance on something.

You don't even know my stance on climate change Mac. 

The only view I have ever presented here is that I don't agree with the sensationalist, unscientific, inconsistent and selective scaremongering of doomsday cults ike XR and that I have a low tolerance for hypocrites like Hamilton and Prince Harry which is a perfectly valid stance. That doesn't mean I deny human impact on climate change at all. 

Considering my job is Geoscience and an understanding of climate and past climate is crucial to it and the limit of your knowledge is voting green I think I'm better placed to have a more valid opinion.

What exactly is it that you think my views are about climate change? I can pretty much guarantee that you are wrong about what I think  and as usual you'll have no evidence for whatever you claim I have said.


Last edited by super_realist on Tue 10 Nov 2020, 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by JuliusHMarx Mon 09 Nov 2020, 10:33 pm

super_realist wrote:The only view I have ever presented here is that I don't agree with the sensationalist, unscientific, scaremongering nonsense of groups like XR and have a low tolerance for hypocrites like Hamilton and Prince Harry....

Out of curiosity, given that you work in a field which would lead to a knowledgeable viewpoint, why have you chosen not to present that view?

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Post by super_realist Tue 10 Nov 2020, 5:53 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
super_realist wrote:The only view I have ever presented here is that I don't agree with the sensationalist, unscientific, scaremongering nonsense of groups like XR and have a low tolerance for hypocrites like Hamilton and Prince Harry....

Out of curiosity, given that you work in a field which would lead to a knowledgeable viewpoint, why have you chosen not to present that view?
Because as far as I can recall we have never had a debate about the human impact on climate change. If you want to start one then be my guest, but I'm sure we would probably all have the same view in that so what would be the point?

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