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F1 2020 Season

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Post by GSC on Sun 25 Oct 2020, 6:14 pm

That said id rather the default position be racing incidents unless someone does something dangerous. We do want people to try to overtake even if it goes wrong at times
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Post by GSC on Sun 25 Oct 2020, 6:42 pm

Matching Schumacher's win record was always going to require an equally dominant team. Doesn't detract from the record
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 25 Oct 2020, 8:45 pm

GSC wrote:Matching Schumacher's win record was always going to require an equally dominant team. Doesn't detract from the record

Agreed.

In any case - come on folks Schumacher drove in one man teams. His team-mates were simply not allowed to race him or beat him so it was even less competitive. Who remembers Barrichello being told to pull over on the home straight to let Schumacher through to win? Bottas has been bursting a gut to beat Hamilton but just isn't in his class. Rosberg was also allowed to race Hamilton. I cannot deny Schumacher was an all-time great but twice forcing championship rival off the track in the last race of the season - pathetic show.
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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 25 Oct 2020, 11:24 pm

In Hamilton's rookie season in 2007 he beat a two times world champion in his prime (Alonso champion in 2005 & 2006), made Alonso go berserk behind the scenes, and should have won the championship then and there given he was so far ahead in the championship with two races to go.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Mon 26 Oct 2020, 7:49 pm

Schumacher built F1 into what is it today. If you don’t see that you are blindly dislike of the German. The professionalism Schumacher instilled finally pushed out the fat, overweight cigarette smoker guys.
Schumacher was the first driver to factor in fitness as key to long term success.
And this belief ‘Schumacher had a dominant car’ - yes he had a dominant car at times 2002 and 2004 obviously - he never had a dominant car that won 79% of the races for 7 straight seasons.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Mon 26 Oct 2020, 7:50 pm

I’m hearing Alexander Albon will be fired after the Turkish GP

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 8:40 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:Matching Schumacher's win record was always going to require an equally dominant team. Doesn't detract from the record

Agreed.

In any case - come on folks Schumacher drove in one man teams. His team-mates were simply not allowed to race him or beat him so it was even less competitive. Who remembers Barrichello being told to pull over on the home straight to let Schumacher through to win? Bottas has been bursting a gut to beat Hamilton but just isn't in his class. Rosberg was also allowed to race Hamilton. I cannot deny Schumacher was an all-time great but twice forcing championship rival off the track in the last race of the season - pathetic show.

Well cynically, that was because Schumacher actually had competitors from outside the team in cars that *could* beat the Ferrari, as pointed out maybe bar 2002 and 2004.
Mercedes haven't had any peers since 2014, the only time it was sort of close was 2018 when Ferrari had a half decent car and Bottas had an off year...and even then they won the constructors championship by 84 points. There is absolutely no need for Mercedes pulling over their teammate, and again cynically, I'd imagine the sports bosses would be in Toto Wolff's ear if they were making it *even* less competitive than it already has been these last few years by not letting his own drivers compete.

Doesn't detract from eithers record for me - both deserve to be in the conversation for greatest ever, and like in so many sports, it's just going to come down to personal preference who is your GOAT (my grandad for example would have forever argued it was Ayrton Senna)
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Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 8:45 am

It's why the GOAT talk will always be subjective in F1, statistics largely at the mercy of the car driven
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Post by GSC on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 6:30 pm

Gonna be honest, I don't really get the outcry over Landos comments on Lewis, he didn't say anything untrue...
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 7:33 pm

Mercedes has acquired a 20% stake in Aston Martin parent company.

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Post by Marky on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 9:26 pm

GSC wrote:Gonna be honest, I don't really get the outcry over Landos comments on Lewis, he didn't say anything untrue...

I was more annoyed that he dropped a C bomb when he drove into Stroll AND that the stewards thought it was Lance's fault.

What he said about Hamilton was a fair opinion.

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 27 Oct 2020, 11:40 pm

So it looks like Albon will be out of F1 completely. With Gasly he was dropped back to alpha tauri but Albon won't have a seat at all because alpha tauri are happy with their line up as it is working and they are progressing and red bull won't be taking back Gasly.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Wed 28 Oct 2020, 1:06 am

No name Bertie wrote:So it looks like Albon will be out of F1 completely.  With Gasly he was dropped back to alpha tauri but Albon won't have a seat at all because alpha tauri are happy with their line up as it is working and they are progressing and red bull won't be taking back Gasly.
Gasly screwed himself over by speaking to Renault without Red Bull’s permission. Had he waited he would’ve gotten another go at Red Bull.
AlphaTauri will replace Daniil Kvyat with Yuki Tsunoda

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Post by Just John on Wed 28 Oct 2020, 3:06 pm

Gasly confirmed at AT for next season. I’d imagine he will eventually end up at Renault in, 2022, if Ocon gets bent over by Alonso.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:02 pm

Sauber and Alfa Romeo have agreed to continue partnership for 2021 - Raikkonen and Giovinazzi will be confirmed imminently.

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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:26 pm

Does anyone think that Ocon will make it in F1 and be competitive against Alonso?  

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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:30 pm

Apart from these new tracks F1 remains terribly predictable.

Mercedes are more dominant than ever, Hamilton is totally dominant over Bottas on race day, Verstappen is a one man team getting no help or push from Albon, Vettel has dropped right off compared to Leclerc, Ferrari have dropped into the mid-field, Williams and Haas and Alpha Romeo are in the wilderness and contributing nothing to F1 at the moment in terms of any sort of competitiveness.  Effectively F1 only has 7 teams.

Mercedes (Hamilton) is way out in front, then we have Mercedes (Bottas) & Verstappen (Red Bull) in the second tier, then nine cars in the mid-field which includes  Red Bull (Albon), then we have Vettel (Ferrari) and Kvyat (alpha tauri) well adrift in the back field, and then the complete no-hopers of Williams, Haas and Alpha Romeo.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Thu 29 Oct 2020, 12:41 pm

Ocon is average. All the hype is because Wolff manages his career. And that he once beat Verstappen in the F3 championship.
If Ocon was this supposed world beater why are Renault trying to land Gasly in 2022?

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Post by GSC on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 8:45 am

To be fair to Ocon, he looked handy at FI/RP as a rookie driver. Renault obviously want a french driver, and they're kinda thin on the ground given you can't get Gasly and Grosjean is firmly on the declining phase of his career
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 9:00 am

Kimi and Giovinazzi confirmed as the Alfa driver lineup for 2021. Meh
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Post by Just John on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 12:08 pm

So Mick Schumacher and Mazepin at Haas

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Post by GSC on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 12:27 pm

Russell staying at Williams. So down to Perez Vs Hulk at RB
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Post by No name Bertie on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm

So it has been reported that Russell and Latifi are staying at Williams for 2021.

Be interesting to find out what is happening at Red Bull and Alpha Tauri who both seem to have one driver confirmed each - Verstappen at Red Bull and Gasly at Alpha Tauri.

So question marks for Perez, Albon, Kvyat, Hulkenberg.

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Post by No name Bertie on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 1:25 pm

Seats available at Haas too and as far as I can see no driver  line up has been confirmed for 2021.

ps: It had been said that rumours that Russell might be leaving Williams could have been pushed by Perez's management team, wanting to put pressure on Red Bull to make a decision.

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Post by GSC on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 1:57 pm

Would guess Merc threw in a sweetner to the engine deal as they did when Williams released Bottas.

AT are promoting the Honda/RB junior driver, Haas are taking Schumacher and Mazepin is buying a seat.

Only the last RB still open by all accounts
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Post by Just John on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 2:39 pm

I’d think if RB want a consistent, points scoring second driver, who has showcased an ability to mix it in and around the podium, then the decision would be Perez. Hulk’ CV just doesn’t warrant an RB seat, imo

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Post by GSC on Fri 30 Oct 2020, 2:42 pm

To be honest id rather see them gamble on Hulkenburg. not sure Perez gives you much more than better control of 4th
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 1:47 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Apart from these new tracks F1 remains terribly predictable.

Mercedes are more dominant than ever, Hamilton is totally dominant over Bottas on race day, Verstappen is a one man team getting no help or push from Albon, Vettel has dropped right off compared to Leclerc, Ferrari have dropped into the mid-field, Williams and Haas and Alpha Romeo are in the wilderness and contributing nothing to F1 at the moment in terms of any sort of competitiveness.  Effectively F1 only has 7 teams.

Mercedes (Hamilton) is way out in front, then we have Mercedes (Bottas) & Verstappen (Red Bull) in the second tier, then nine cars in the mid-field which includes  Red Bull (Albon), then we have Vettel (Ferrari) and Kvyat (alpha tauri) well adrift in the back field, and then the complete no-hopers of Williams, Haas and Alpha Romeo.

We can only hope the new regs in 2022 shake things up considerably...or ideally reduce the performance gap between teams to the point that we regularly see different race winners (and much closer title races).
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Post by GSC on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 2:06 pm

Bottas takes pole by a tenth.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 2:08 pm

Well a few surprises in quali.

No prizes for guessing who locked out the front row.

Bottas (got pole by less than 1/10th).
Hamilton
Verstappen
Gasly
Ricciardo
Albon
Leclerc
Kvyat
Norris
Sainz

Alpha Tauris looking unusually quick, as did Ricciardo. McLarens looking down on pace...is it just this track doesn't suit them, or are they lagging in development? Mercedes still half a second quicker than anyone else... Rolling Eyes

Racing Points both out in Q2 and looking very out of sorts.

Imola isn't a great overtaking track, but I'd expect Lewis to find a way past Valtteri within the first few laps (or failing that overtake during the pit stops).
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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 2:12 pm

After today's qualifying I still think Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc and Ricciardo are the top four drivers (tier one drivers). I continue to be impressed by Gasly who qualified fourth today.

According to Christian Horner Gasly has a similar driving style to Albon and that was the reason given for not promoting Gasly back to Red Bull. He was basically saying that both Albon and Gasly can drive the more stable slower cars to close to their maximums but the faster Red Bull is less stable (less rear end stability) - which Verstappen is able to use to maximise its speed.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sat 31 Oct 2020, 3:30 pm

Horner is talking sh!t. Gasly is as quick as anyone. Red Bull wants their number 2 to be quicker than Bottas but not competition for Verstappen. Same situation as Ricciardo, he would never be Verstappen’s b!tch.

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Post by Just John on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 12:53 pm

Not sure we will be coming back to, Imola. As for the race, VSC plays into Hamilton’s hand, although he engineered that luck, by going long and banging in those fast laps. Perez too, benefits from going long.

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Post by Just John on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 1:26 pm

Verstappen failure causes a SC. Russell then embarrassingly bins it behind the SC. Amateurish.

RP have thrown a podium away for Perez. Well done, you tin-pot outfit

Hamilton wins, Bottas 2nd and somehow Ricciardo finishes third.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:00 pm

I guess Bottas just isn't destined to win any more races. Seems he gets every bit of bad luck going on Sundays.

Floor damage, debris lodged in his car...and to top it all off, a perfectly timed VSC for Lewis. With the lap times he was putting in just before his stop, he'd probably have come out ahead of Valtteri anyway, but instead of a 2-3 second gap, it was more like 5-6 seconds.

Anyway, another Mercedes 1-2 seals a 7th consecutive Constructor's title. Lewis can afford to finish 2nd for the rest of the season and still win the Driver's title.

Disastrous weekend for Red Bull. Max was nailed on for 2nd until one of his rear tyres let go. Albon running 5th after the Safety Car but dropped it on the kerb after getting passed by Perez. Ended up last.

Mixed fortunes for Renault. Ocon early retirement with mechanical issues, but another podium for Ricciardo. Does that mean Cyril has to get another tattoo?

Likewise for Alpha Tauri. Gasly also forced into an early retirement while 4th. Kvyat managed to step up and claim that place for himself.

More decent results for Leclerc and Perez. McLaren benefitting from the retirements to bag 7th and 8th.

Similar story for Alfa, with both Raikkonen and Gio finishing in the points.

Just John wrote:
erstappen failure causes a SC. Russell then embarrassingly bins it behind the SC. Amateurish.

RP have thrown a podium away for Perez. Well done, you tin-pot outfit

Hamilton wins, Bottas 2nd and somehow Ricciardo finishes third.

First real mistake from Russell...everyone makes them. You could see how gutted he was afterwards. Hopefully he'll learn not to push too hard on cold tyres.

I think RP expected the cars around them to also pit for fresh tyres and they didn't want Perez to be trying to defend on worn rubber. Its one of those roll-the-dice things. Could've been a podium, but equally he could have been swarmed and lost 2-3 places (as happened to Magnussen at one point).


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:06 pm

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Post by Just John on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:21 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:First real mistake from Russell

Yes, but it was more to do with throwing away another rare opportunity to score a point for Williams. Kubica and Latifi beating him in the Championship, and him ballsing up these chances, really does hurt your career going forward.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:37 pm

Bottas unlucky with the floor damage but Hamilton consistently beats him on race day.  Verstappen and Gasly unlucky.  So will Red Bull have to demote Albon to Alpha Tauri - they will get tremendous flak if they dump him altogether?  I really think Perez should get the second seat at Red Bull he seems to be a very aggressive driver on race day plus he has the experience.  Can Red Bull really get away with choosing Hulkenberg over Gasly?  Hulkenberg although he has the experience doesn't have the cv to suggest he should be getting the Red Bull seat over Perez or Gasly?

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Post by GSC on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:43 pm

Don't think Latifi/Kubica Vs Russell means anything at all. Particularly in a car that's been out of the points consistently for years now. Pretty clear he's been the faster driver by a distance regardless of who happens to get lucky one weekend
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:44 pm

01-11-2020 official confirmation that Alexander Albon has no future at red bull racing.

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Post by GSC on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:44 pm

Albon was going to drive in Formula E before Brendan Hartley left before last season, I don't think RB ever really rated him that highly
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:48 pm

Also all this hype surrounding Russell, Wolff has previously suggested Ocon is still the first choice to replace Bottas. So a silly crash like today isn’t exactly helping Russell

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:50 pm

GSC wrote:Albon was going to drive in Formula E before Brendan Hartley left before last season, I don't think RB ever really rated him that highly
There’s more to this story. Marko dumped Albon has ‘he lacked balls’. Ricciardo left and Red Bull panicked. They had to buy out Albon’s Nissan to get him back into their program.
Truly a moronic decision making sequence

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 2:59 pm

What are Red Bulls options if they fire Albon today or before the end of this season - can they bring in Hulkenberg immediately - but then would that mean giving Hulkenberg the seat for next year also?

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Post by GSC on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:05 pm

I don't see why they would need to?
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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:10 pm

Hulkenberg can’t join red bull until after the Turkish GP as per the terms of his reserve status at Mercedes/Racing Point

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Post by No name Bertie on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:24 pm

Two races ago Red Bull indicated that Albon had two races to save his seat - but since then he has scored null points ... and lies ninth in the drivers championship.

Given testing is restricted and given that Albon will lose his seat (see above) it would be prudent to bring someone else in now and let them have a go in the car.  

There are four races left and after Turkey there will be three races left.  So if Red Bull bring in Hulkenberg after Turkey that would give him 9 free practice sessions, three qualifying sessions and three races in order to prove himself with this car.  The other option could have been swapping Gasly but Red Bull have already made their decision.   I suppose Perez is tied to Racing Point until the end of the season.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 3:49 pm

Just John wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:First real mistake from Russell

Yes, but it was more to do with throwing away another rare opportunity to score a point for Williams. Kubica and Latifi beating him in the Championship, and him ballsing up these chances, really does hurt your career going forward.  

Seriously?

Kubica scored a single, solitary point during his time with the team. Otherwise his results were very similar to Russell's. I also think you need to learn to count - Latifi hasn't scored a point either, so he isn't beating Russell. Unless you're going by the fact Nicholas has had 2 11th places to Russell's 1...which is a very weak argument at best.

Like I said before, even the best drivers have made stupid mistakes now and again. This is Russell's first, so he shouldn't be getting hammered over it. If he was doing stuff like this on a regular basis, fair enough. But he isn't.
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Post by Just John on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 4:02 pm

Jeff Navarro wrote:Also all this hype surrounding Russell, Wolff has previously suggested Ocon is still the first choice to replace Bottas. So a silly crash like today isn’t exactly helping Russell

Agree. As the pundits have stated, he has blown multiple opportunities to score points for Williams now. The cream rise to the top, take their opportunities, and career progression comes with it. Three years at Williams is worrying stagnation.

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Post by Jeff Navarro on Sun 01 Nov 2020, 4:49 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Just John wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:First real mistake from Russell

Yes, but it was more to do with throwing away another rare opportunity to score a point for Williams. Kubica and Latifi beating him in the Championship, and him ballsing up these chances, really does hurt your career going forward.  

Seriously?

Kubica scored a single, solitary point during his time with the team. Otherwise his results were very similar to Russell's. I also think you need to learn to count - Latifi hasn't scored a point either, so he isn't beating Russell. Unless you're going by the fact Nicholas has had 2 11th places to Russell's 1...which is a very weak argument at best.

Like I said before, even the best drivers have made stupid mistakes now and again. This is Russell's first, so he shouldn't be getting hammered over it. If he was doing stuff like this on a regular basis, fair enough. But he isn't.
When you’re in the less than desirable cars worthwhile results are few and far between. Russell should’ve scored points in Mugello and Imola - yet he ended up with nothing.
Kubica got that point for Williams last year because he kept the car on the road.

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