F1 2020 Season
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dyrewolfe
Marky
Good Golly I'm Olly
No name Bertie
CaledonianCraig
GSC
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F1 2020 Season
First topic message reminder :
That said id rather the default position be racing incidents unless someone does something dangerous. We do want people to try to overtake even if it goes wrong at times
That said id rather the default position be racing incidents unless someone does something dangerous. We do want people to try to overtake even if it goes wrong at times
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Russell on fresh tyres should still probably win
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Camera shows a close-up of Otmar Szafnauer, grinning mightily behind his mask on the pit wall.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Jesus what a move by Russell to get past Bottas...no DRS either! Very Hamilton-esque.
Last edited by dyrewolfe on Sun 06 Dec 2020, 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
I really want Perez to win, but Russell is on fire now
Nightmare for Bottas. Feel for him
Nightmare for Bottas. Feel for him
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Christ now Russell is past Stroll! As John said, he is seriously on fire!
Come on George!
Now past Ocon...just Perez to catch...absolutely incredible.
Come on George!
Now past Ocon...just Perez to catch...absolutely incredible.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Bottas' tyres have gone...going backwards at a rate of knots. How much bad luck can one person have?
Russell with a puncture...has to make another stop! Race win gone!
Utter disaster for Mercedes...Bottas down to 8th and Russell way down in 15th.
No justice at all. Russell has done more than enough to be considered for a seat in 2022, if nothing else.
Russell with a puncture...has to make another stop! Race win gone!
Utter disaster for Mercedes...Bottas down to 8th and Russell way down in 15th.
No justice at all. Russell has done more than enough to be considered for a seat in 2022, if nothing else.
Last edited by dyrewolfe on Sun 06 Dec 2020, 6:41 pm; edited 3 times in total
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Perez a worthy winner anyway. Drove a hell of a race to inherit the lead after getting shunted off at the start and having to pit early.
What a result for Ocon - career best finish. Another podium for Stroll.
Everything's really come up roses for RP after some really bad luck of their own.
What a result for Ocon - career best finish. Another podium for Stroll.
Everything's really come up roses for RP after some really bad luck of their own.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Russell claws his way back to 9th and bags fastest lap, but I bet that will be scant consolation.
Happy for Perez - he's deserved a result like this. Surely must mean he gets a seat somewhere next season.
So gutted for Russell though.
Happy for Perez - he's deserved a result like this. Surely must mean he gets a seat somewhere next season.
So gutted for Russell though.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Russell driver of the day, then Perez. Perez definitely goes to Red Bull now.
No name Bertie- Posts : 3597
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Re: F1 2020 Season
I am in pain for Russell - what a drive, totally and utterly ballsed up by Mercedes. And Bottas, while not at his best, also ballsed up by the team. That was beyond embarrassing from Merc, not even Ferrari could achieve that level of idiocy
And Racing Point finally get the luck! Great drive from Perez, and also our Lance too
And Racing Point finally get the luck! Great drive from Perez, and also our Lance too
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Pretty mental race, the kind of carnage a sub minute lap throws up.
Hard for Russell. And while on paper he can come again it's another thing being so close to the maiden win.
Bottas might as well start looking for a new team for 2022. He needed to stamp his authority all over this race and lost it at turn 1.
Perez a popular winner no doubt. And the bar gets raised higher for his replacement... Ocon and Stroll also in position to profit from the carnage
Hard for Russell. And while on paper he can come again it's another thing being so close to the maiden win.
Bottas might as well start looking for a new team for 2022. He needed to stamp his authority all over this race and lost it at turn 1.
Perez a popular winner no doubt. And the bar gets raised higher for his replacement... Ocon and Stroll also in position to profit from the carnage
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Merc have form, ballsed it up at Monaco a few years back, and when they all embarrassingly dressed up in 60’s gear in Hockenheim, and it ended up with a similar shambles in the pitlane.
Major debrief needed, along with serious question marks over Bottas. Firmly in Russell’s pocket all night. If this is repeated next week in Abu Dhabi, I’m not sure how on earth you can send Russell back to Williams. He’s ready, you only harm his career development by returning him to the back of the grid.
Sergio at RB. That’s going to be interesting. He won’t have Max’s speed, but I think his sheer consistency will ask questions of those at the front.
Major debrief needed, along with serious question marks over Bottas. Firmly in Russell’s pocket all night. If this is repeated next week in Abu Dhabi, I’m not sure how on earth you can send Russell back to Williams. He’s ready, you only harm his career development by returning him to the back of the grid.
Sergio at RB. That’s going to be interesting. He won’t have Max’s speed, but I think his sheer consistency will ask questions of those at the front.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Max will handle him pretty easily but he should at least be more competitive than Albon is against the rest of the field
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Mercedes should be brave and promote George Russell for 2021. Russell won F3 and F2 in consecutive seasons, joining LeClerc is doing such. And LeClerc is rightly at Maranello.
Bottas doesn’t even hold a candle to Rosberg and he should be embarrassed that someone who could hardly fit into the car was laying waste to him.
As fans I’m pretty sure we all want to see Verstappen(RB), LeClerc(F), Russell(M) and Norris(Mc). This could be a dream era akin to the 70s/80s.
Bottas doesn’t even hold a candle to Rosberg and he should be embarrassed that someone who could hardly fit into the car was laying waste to him.
As fans I’m pretty sure we all want to see Verstappen(RB), LeClerc(F), Russell(M) and Norris(Mc). This could be a dream era akin to the 70s/80s.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
This race has sort of highlighted that it is not exactly a merit system in terms of who gets a seat. Russell in a slow Williams. Perez losing his seat at racing point. There needs to be test days where teams can test other drivers with their up to date cars.
No name Bertie- Posts : 3597
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Putting Russell back in the Williams is some sort of crime against humanity. Make it right Toto
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Mercedes fined €20,000 for tyre balls up & Leclerc given three place grid penalty in Abu Dhabi
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Toto Wolff explained the pit stop cockup was a result of one of the tyre crews not getting the call that their driver was coming in for a pit stop, and this was due to a radio failure.
Russell ended up with three new tyres intended for him and one new tyre intended for Bottas. When Bottas came in they discovered that one of the new tyres was Russell's, so they put Bottas' second stint hard tyres back on. They then brought Russell back in again to put on the new tyre.
Bottas couldn't get his hard tyres back up to temperature and so lost grip and fell back.
Russell ended up with three new tyres intended for him and one new tyre intended for Bottas. When Bottas came in they discovered that one of the new tyres was Russell's, so they put Bottas' second stint hard tyres back on. They then brought Russell back in again to put on the new tyre.
Bottas couldn't get his hard tyres back up to temperature and so lost grip and fell back.
No name Bertie- Posts : 3597
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Re: F1 2020 Season
No name Bertie wrote:Toto Wolff explained the pit stop cockup was a result of one of the tyre crews not getting the call that their driver was coming in for a pit stop, and this was due to a radio failure.
Russell ended up with three new tyres intended for him and one new tyre intended for Bottas. When Bottas came in they discovered that one of the new tyres was Russell's, so they put Bottas' second stint hard tyres back on. They then brought Russell back in again to put on the new tyre.
Bottas couldn't get his hard tyres back up to temperature and so lost grip and fell back.
Ugh what a shambles! The hell of it is - they probably could have gone to the end of the race quite comfortably without pitting again, being on the hard tyres.
Still, Mercedes are usually flawless and have been through the season. They normally manage one major screw-up and I suppose that was it for this season. Just a shame it happened under these circumstances.
If nothing else Russell proved he is ready to drive for Mercedes. The only potential hold-up would be the contract situation.
They may have an early-release clause written in, for situations like this, or they could simply buy out the remainder of the Williams contract. But they'd also have to terminate Bottas' contract early. Pretty expensive - even for a team like Mercedes.
Also, monetary considerations aside, they'll want to maintain a good working relationship with Williams, as well as not develop a reputation as a bully - using money to get their way. Its possible George could end up spending another year with them, to "smooth the waters" and maintain goodwill.
Would also give Bottas one final season to get his act together and allow him to see out his contract (ironic that he actually has a contract, while Lewis still hasn't put pen to paper for next season).
It would be absolutely criminal if Perez isn't offered a seat before the end of the season - or at least soon into the close season. If the rumours of his going to Red Bull are true, at least he'll be in a reasonably competitive car.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
My ideal line up for 2021. I’d say it would be one of the strongest line ups we’ve had for some years.
Mercedes - Hamilton/Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen/Perez
Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz
Aston Martin - Vettel/Stroll
Alpine - Alonso/Ocon
McLaren - Ricciardo/Norris
AT - Gasly/Tsunoda
Haas - Schumacher/Mazepin
AR - Raikkonen/Giovinazzi
Williams - Bottas/Latifi
Mercedes - Hamilton/Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen/Perez
Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz
Aston Martin - Vettel/Stroll
Alpine - Alonso/Ocon
McLaren - Ricciardo/Norris
AT - Gasly/Tsunoda
Haas - Schumacher/Mazepin
AR - Raikkonen/Giovinazzi
Williams - Bottas/Latifi
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Re: F1 2020 Season
I think the difficulty will be in getting Williams to break his contract. All very well saying Bottas could return, but is he going to be particularly amenable to being demoted from a team that wins titles to a team that aims to escape Q1.
My suspicion is Mercedes will just leave him for a year, rather than incurring some significant costs in a year when another title clean sweep is a virtual guarantee.
My suspicion is Mercedes will just leave him for a year, rather than incurring some significant costs in a year when another title clean sweep is a virtual guarantee.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
He could be attracted by a three year deal at Williams for example. Safeguards his future, instead of a one year deal at Merc, being heavily beaten again, and then shipped out. Could leave himself in a Perez situation this time next year. No guarantee of a seat for him in 22’.
Not sure that paying off a one year deal is that big an obstacle and Williams have usually bent over relatively easily to whatever Mercedes have wanted or demanded.
Not sure that paying off a one year deal is that big an obstacle and Williams have usually bent over relatively easily to whatever Mercedes have wanted or demanded.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Just John wrote:My ideal line up for 2021. I’d say it would be one of the strongest line ups we’ve had for some years.
Mercedes - Hamilton/Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen/Perez
Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz
Aston Martin - Vettel/Stroll
Alpine - Alonso/Ocon
McLaren - Ricciardo/Norris
AT - Gasly/Tsunoda
Haas - Schumacher/Mazepin
AR - Raikkonen/Giovinazzi
Williams - Bottas/Latifi
Agree with this John - would be so much better for the sport to have Bottas out of that 2nd Merc in my opinion, albeit as GSC points out it's unlikely because he really is the ideal No.2 driver. Just seems a waste for Russell to spend another year in the Williams, he's clearly ready for the step up...and ultimately for the long term interest of Mercedes, it might be best for them to get a year for Russell in the car while Hamilton is still at his peak and racing...
If they do see sense and promote George (they hold all the cards when it comes to this with Williams really), then it would really only be Alfa Romeo's lineup that looks thoroughly boring and uninteresting. Really not entirely sure why they kept the same two guys, but hey ho
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Dyre
Actually Merc's second big screw up of the year, after calling Hamilton in to a closed pit lane (iirc, Italy). Even so Russell would likely have won the race but for the puncture (btw, do we have confirmation that it was actually a puncture and not a sensor failure, as the commentators were surprised he was doing the sector times he was if the tyre was deflating).
Certainly proved that he can match Bottas for pace and exceed him as a racer. One day I will understand how he didn't win this race...
Anyway, if anyone was going to reverse into a win, I'm glad it was Perez - hopefully enough to keep him in F1 and a good seat for next year.
Actually Merc's second big screw up of the year, after calling Hamilton in to a closed pit lane (iirc, Italy). Even so Russell would likely have won the race but for the puncture (btw, do we have confirmation that it was actually a puncture and not a sensor failure, as the commentators were surprised he was doing the sector times he was if the tyre was deflating).
Certainly proved that he can match Bottas for pace and exceed him as a racer. One day I will understand how he didn't win this race...
Anyway, if anyone was going to reverse into a win, I'm glad it was Perez - hopefully enough to keep him in F1 and a good seat for next year.
dummy_half- Posts : 6319
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Williams have in the past but that was when there was a lot of history between Mercedes and Williams management. Now I would expect them to extract maximum value for an asset who gives them probably the only chance of grabbing some points and getting prize money from the constructors.
As much as anything it's a significant outlay in a covid affected world for virtually no upside to Mercedes as a whole. Whether Russell or Bottas are in the 2nd car will make no difference to where Mercedes finish next year, and Russell has a secured seat for next season anyway, so unlikely to stall out like Ocon did. So really the only reason is for sporting reasons, and Mercedes don't want a #2 that challenges Hamilton. Rosbergs retirement got Toto out of having to remove one of them last time, and now they have the non threatening #2 they want.
I also have doubts that either Williams or Bottas would want to do a 3 year deal.
It's possible but pretty unlikely imo. I don't see a massive amount of motivation for them to do it.
As much as anything it's a significant outlay in a covid affected world for virtually no upside to Mercedes as a whole. Whether Russell or Bottas are in the 2nd car will make no difference to where Mercedes finish next year, and Russell has a secured seat for next season anyway, so unlikely to stall out like Ocon did. So really the only reason is for sporting reasons, and Mercedes don't want a #2 that challenges Hamilton. Rosbergs retirement got Toto out of having to remove one of them last time, and now they have the non threatening #2 they want.
I also have doubts that either Williams or Bottas would want to do a 3 year deal.
It's possible but pretty unlikely imo. I don't see a massive amount of motivation for them to do it.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Another possibility is Mercedes assist Williams a lot more than just with an engine, in the same way that Racing Point have a lot of Merc parts, making it more worthwhile for Russell to have next season at Williams.
If Russell was in a midfield battle rather than being at the back, it would be far beneficial for him and for Mercedes in the long run
If Russell was in a midfield battle rather than being at the back, it would be far beneficial for him and for Mercedes in the long run
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Re: F1 2020 Season
That's illegal from next year
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Any truth in the uk over suggestions that Mercedes have swapped Russell and Bottas for 2021? Seen a few reports in the European media but it’s not from credible sources.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Nothing confirmed.
All I’ve seen, is Finnish media labelling Bottas’ performance embarrassing, and them calling Russell the ‘future’ of the team. Bottas and Russell have also randomly removed Mercedes and Williams from their Instagram bios. Mercedes says fans shouldn’t read anything into it.
All I’ve seen, is Finnish media labelling Bottas’ performance embarrassing, and them calling Russell the ‘future’ of the team. Bottas and Russell have also randomly removed Mercedes and Williams from their Instagram bios. Mercedes says fans shouldn’t read anything into it.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.
We don't know how long Hamilton will remain in F1 but Hamilton has indicated he plans to stay for a few more years yet but wants to be free to be more politically active. There has been a suggestion that with Mercedes laying off staff for various reasons that an increase in what they already pay their drivers may not look good internally.
We don't know how long Hamilton will remain in F1 but Hamilton has indicated he plans to stay for a few more years yet but wants to be free to be more politically active. There has been a suggestion that with Mercedes laying off staff for various reasons that an increase in what they already pay their drivers may not look good internally.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
No name Bertie wrote:Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.
We don't know how long Hamilton will remain in F1 but Hamilton has indicated he plans to stay for a few more years yet but wants to be free to be more politically active. There has been a suggestion that with Mercedes laying off staff for various reasons that an increase in what they already pay their drivers may not look good internally.
I've heard similar, basically that if Russell performs this well then Mercedes can make Hamilton lower his wage demands, knowing they'll have a good enough team of Bottas and Russell if Hamilton doesn't re-sign
Marky- Posts : 29568
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Re: F1 2020 Season
According to German media, Hamilton has recorded a negative test. Flying to Abu Dhabi, and will have another test on Friday. If negative, he will take his place in the Mercedes car on Saturday. Could be Vandoorne in the Mercedes in FP1/FP2, and then Russell back to Williams.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Mercedes confirm Hamilton back and Russell back to Williams.
And so ends the fun
And so ends the fun
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Re: F1 2020 Season
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55267490
Great read about R Lance
Great read about R Lance
Marky- Posts : 29568
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Just John wrote:Sergio Perez has an engine change so starts from back of grid.
He'll have to settle for 4th place
Marky- Posts : 29568
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Re: F1 2020 Season
George Russell goes from leading the field to trailing at the back as he returns to the Williams.
No name Bertie- Posts : 3597
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Just John wrote:He could be attracted by a three year deal at Williams for example. Safeguards his future, instead of a one year deal at Merc, being heavily beaten again, and then shipped out. Could leave himself in a Perez situation this time next year. No guarantee of a seat for him in 22’.
Not sure that paying off a one year deal is that big an obstacle and Williams have usually bent over relatively easily to whatever Mercedes have wanted or demanded.
I would think that rather depends on the new owners' philosophy. The Williams family were quite keen on nurturing new talent and giving young drivers a chance. Will the current team boss feel the same way, or would they see Bottas as a "safe pair of hands" for helping develop a car under the new regs?
From Valtteri's view point, if its a toss up between being a reserve / test driver or having a race seat, I imagine he'd prefer the latter (if he still wants to continue in F1).
Lot of ifs and buts there.
Also the budget caps start from next season, so driver salaries will suddenly become more of an issue than they might otherwise have been.
No name Bertie wrote:
George Russell goes from leading the field to trailing at the back as he returns to the Williams.
Can't be much fun, but he just has to keep telling himself "not for much longer". Mercedes would have to be mad not to bring him over for 2022 at the latest.
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Verstappen Pole. Bottas 2nd and Hamilton 3rd
This should be interesting tomorrow
This should be interesting tomorrow
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Damn Max - where did that come from?
First non-Mercedes pole of the season.
Bottas 2nd and Hamilton 3rd.
Incredible effort by Lando Norris to get 4th for McLaren.
Assuming the Red Bull doesn't have the race pace to pull out a lead on the Mercedes, it could be a close battle at the front...for once...
Interesting reaction by Toto Wolff in the interviews. Alonso doing some testing in an old Renault (looks like one of his title-winning cars). "A real car" he says, as it screams past in the background. Good bloke Toto! I'd forgotten how loud they were!
Anyone else think it would be an interesting experiment to have Nando line up on the grid in the R25 tomorrow?
First non-Mercedes pole of the season.
Bottas 2nd and Hamilton 3rd.
Incredible effort by Lando Norris to get 4th for McLaren.
Assuming the Red Bull doesn't have the race pace to pull out a lead on the Mercedes, it could be a close battle at the front...for once...
Interesting reaction by Toto Wolff in the interviews. Alonso doing some testing in an old Renault (looks like one of his title-winning cars). "A real car" he says, as it screams past in the background. Good bloke Toto! I'd forgotten how loud they were!
Anyone else think it would be an interesting experiment to have Nando line up on the grid in the R25 tomorrow?
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Jeff Navarro wrote:Any truth in the uk over suggestions that Mercedes have swapped Russell and Bottas for 2021? Seen a few reports in the European media but it’s not from credible sources.
It's obviously not going to happen, but Hamilton and Russell swapping seats would be great entertainment.No name Bertie wrote:Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.
Lowlandbrit- Posts : 2641
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Re: F1 2020 Season
If they were going to promote Russell I suspect they would've left Lewis at home for this race and get a 2nd look.
GSC- Posts : 42843
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Re: F1 2020 Season
Ugh! Another DNF for Perez, as he was working his way through the field (suspected engine failure).
What a way to finish the season...especially when he doesn't yet have a contract for next season.
What a way to finish the season...especially when he doesn't yet have a contract for next season.
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