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F1 2020 Season

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Post by GSC Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:14 am

First topic message reminder :

That said id rather the default position be racing incidents unless someone does something dangerous. We do want people to try to overtake even if it goes wrong at times
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Post by GSC Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:21 am

Russell on fresh tyres should still probably win
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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:25 am

Camera shows a close-up of Otmar Szafnauer, grinning mightily behind his mask on the pit wall.
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:25 am

Come on, Sergio!!!! Bring this home

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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:27 am

This is brilliant

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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:27 am

What a move, George

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:30 am

Jesus what a move by Russell to get past Bottas...no DRS either! Very Hamilton-esque.


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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:31 am

I really want Perez to win, but Russell is on fire now

Nightmare for Bottas. Feel for him

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:32 am

Christ now Russell is past Stroll! As John said, he is seriously on fire! Shocked

Come on George!

Now past Ocon...just Perez to catch...absolutely incredible.
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:35 am

Puncture for Russell

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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:36 am

Perez is going to win

What a nightmare for Mercedes

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:38 am

Bottas' tyres have gone...going backwards at a rate of knots. How much bad luck can one person have?

Russell with a puncture...has to make another stop! Race win gone! Crying or Very sad

Utter disaster for Mercedes...Bottas down to 8th and Russell way down in 15th.

No justice at all. Russell has done more than enough to be considered for a seat in 2022, if nothing else.


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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:39 am

Sergio Perez wins Yahoo Yahoo Yahoo

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:44 am

Perez a worthy winner anyway. Drove a hell of a race to inherit the lead after getting shunted off at the start and having to pit early.

What a result for Ocon - career best finish. Another podium for Stroll.

Everything's really come up roses for RP after some really bad luck of their own.
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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:48 am

Russell claws his way back to 9th and bags fastest lap, but I bet that will be scant consolation.

Happy for Perez - he's deserved a result like this. Surely must mean he gets a seat somewhere next season.

So gutted for Russell though.
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Post by No name Bertie Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:50 am

Russell driver of the day, then Perez. Perez definitely goes to Red Bull now.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:03 am

I am in pain for Russell - what a drive, totally and utterly ballsed up by Mercedes. And Bottas, while not at his best, also ballsed up by the team. That was beyond embarrassing from Merc, not even Ferrari could achieve that level of idiocy

And Racing Point finally get the luck! Great drive from Perez, and also our Lance too
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Post by Jeff Navarro Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:08 am

Welcome to Red Bull Racing Sergio Perez!!! Is what I’ve heard...

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Post by GSC Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:10 am

Pretty mental race, the kind of carnage a sub minute lap throws up.

Hard for Russell. And while on paper he can come again it's another thing being so close to the maiden win.

Bottas might as well start looking for a new team for 2022. He needed to stamp his authority all over this race and lost it at turn 1.

Perez a popular winner no doubt. And the bar gets raised higher for his replacement... Ocon and Stroll also in position to profit from the carnage
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:10 am

Merc have form, ballsed it up at Monaco a few years back, and when they all embarrassingly dressed up in 60’s gear in Hockenheim, and it ended up with a similar shambles in the pitlane.

Major debrief needed, along with serious question marks over Bottas. Firmly in Russell’s pocket all night. If this is repeated next week in Abu Dhabi, I’m not sure how on earth you can send Russell back to Williams. He’s ready, you only harm his career development by returning him to the back of the grid.

Sergio at RB. That’s going to be interesting. He won’t have Max’s speed, but I think his sheer consistency will ask questions of those at the front.

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Post by GSC Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:11 am

Max will handle him pretty easily but he should at least be more competitive than Albon is against the rest of the field
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Post by Jeff Navarro Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:25 am

Mercedes should be brave and promote George Russell for 2021. Russell won F3 and F2 in consecutive seasons, joining LeClerc is doing such. And LeClerc is rightly at Maranello.
Bottas doesn’t even hold a candle to Rosberg and he should be embarrassed that someone who could hardly fit into the car was laying waste to him.
As fans I’m pretty sure we all want to see Verstappen(RB), LeClerc(F), Russell(M) and Norris(Mc). This could be a dream era akin to the 70s/80s.

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Post by No name Bertie Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:28 am

This race has sort of highlighted that it is not exactly a merit system in terms of who gets a seat.   Russell in a slow Williams.  Perez losing his seat at racing point.  There needs to be test days where teams can test other drivers with their up to date cars.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:30 am

Putting Russell back in the Williams is some sort of crime against humanity. Make it right Toto
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:22 am

Mercedes fined €20,000 for tyre balls up & Leclerc given three place grid penalty in Abu Dhabi


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Post by No name Bertie Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:10 am

Toto Wolff explained the pit stop cockup was a result of one of the tyre crews not getting the call that their driver was coming in for a pit stop, and this was due to a radio failure.  

Russell ended up with three new tyres intended for him and one new tyre intended for Bottas.  When Bottas came in they discovered that one of the new tyres was Russell's, so they put Bottas' second stint hard tyres back on. They then brought Russell back in again to put on the new tyre.  

Bottas couldn't get his hard tyres back up to temperature and so lost grip and fell back.

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:52 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Toto Wolff explained the pit stop cockup was a result of one of the tyre crews not getting the call that their driver was coming in for a pit stop, and this was due to a radio failure.  

Russell ended up with three new tyres intended for him and one new tyre intended for Bottas.  When Bottas came in they discovered that one of the new tyres was Russell's, so they put Bottas' second stint hard tyres back on. They then brought Russell back in again to put on the new tyre.  

Bottas couldn't get his hard tyres back up to temperature and so lost grip and fell back.

Ugh what a shambles! The hell of it is - they probably could have gone to the end of the race quite comfortably without pitting again, being on the hard tyres.

Still, Mercedes are usually flawless and have been through the season. They normally manage one major screw-up and I suppose that was it for this season. Just a shame it happened under these circumstances.

If nothing else Russell proved he is ready to drive for Mercedes. The only potential hold-up would be the contract situation.

They may have an early-release clause written in, for situations like this, or they could simply buy out the remainder of the Williams contract. But they'd also have to terminate Bottas' contract early. Pretty expensive - even for a team like Mercedes.

Also, monetary considerations aside, they'll want to maintain a good working relationship with Williams, as well as not develop a reputation as a bully - using money to get their way. Its possible George could end up spending another year with them, to "smooth the waters" and maintain goodwill.

Would also give Bottas one final season to get his act together and allow him to see out his contract (ironic that he actually has a contract, while Lewis still hasn't put pen to paper for next season).

It would be absolutely criminal if Perez isn't offered a seat before the end of the season - or at least soon into the close season. If the rumours of his going to Red Bull are true, at least he'll be in a reasonably competitive car.
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:05 pm

My ideal line up for 2021. I’d say it would be one of the strongest line ups we’ve had for some years.

Mercedes - Hamilton/Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen/Perez
Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz
Aston Martin - Vettel/Stroll
Alpine - Alonso/Ocon
McLaren - Ricciardo/Norris
AT - Gasly/Tsunoda
Haas - Schumacher/Mazepin
AR - Raikkonen/Giovinazzi
Williams - Bottas/Latifi

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Post by GSC Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:12 pm

I think the difficulty will be in getting Williams to break his contract. All very well saying Bottas could return, but is he going to be particularly amenable to being demoted from a team that wins titles to a team that aims to escape Q1.

My suspicion is Mercedes will just leave him for a year, rather than incurring some significant costs in a year when another title clean sweep is a virtual guarantee.
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Post by Just John Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:25 pm

He could be attracted by a three year deal at Williams for example. Safeguards his future, instead of a one year deal at Merc, being heavily beaten again, and then shipped out. Could leave himself in a Perez situation this time next year. No guarantee of a seat for him in 22’.

Not sure that paying off a one year deal is that big an obstacle and Williams have usually bent over relatively easily to whatever Mercedes have wanted or demanded.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:45 pm

Just John wrote:My ideal line up for 2021. I’d say it would be one of the strongest line ups we’ve had for some years.

Mercedes - Hamilton/Russell
Red Bull - Verstappen/Perez
Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz
Aston Martin - Vettel/Stroll
Alpine - Alonso/Ocon
McLaren - Ricciardo/Norris
AT - Gasly/Tsunoda
Haas - Schumacher/Mazepin
AR - Raikkonen/Giovinazzi
Williams - Bottas/Latifi

Agree with this John - would be so much better for the sport to have Bottas out of that 2nd Merc in my opinion, albeit as GSC points out it's unlikely because he really is the ideal No.2 driver. Just seems a waste for Russell to spend another year in the Williams, he's clearly ready for the step up...and ultimately for the long term interest of Mercedes, it might be best for them to get a year for Russell in the car while Hamilton is still at his peak and racing...

If they do see sense and promote George (they hold all the cards when it comes to this with Williams really), then it would really only be Alfa Romeo's lineup that looks thoroughly boring and uninteresting. Really not entirely sure why they kept the same two guys, but hey ho
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Post by dummy_half Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:49 pm

Dyre
Actually Merc's second big screw up of the year, after calling Hamilton in to a closed pit lane (iirc, Italy). Even so Russell would likely have won the race but for the puncture (btw, do we have confirmation that it was actually a puncture and not a sensor failure, as the commentators were surprised he was doing the sector times he was if the tyre was deflating).

Certainly proved that he can match Bottas for pace and exceed him as a racer. One day I will understand how he didn't win this race...

Anyway, if anyone was going to reverse into a win, I'm glad it was Perez - hopefully enough to keep him in F1 and a good seat for next year.

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Post by GSC Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:00 pm

Williams have in the past but that was when there was a lot of history between Mercedes and Williams management. Now I would expect them to extract maximum value for an asset who gives them probably the only chance of grabbing some points and getting prize money from the constructors.

As much as anything it's a significant outlay in a covid affected world for virtually no upside to Mercedes as a whole. Whether Russell or Bottas are in the 2nd car will make no difference to where Mercedes finish next year, and Russell has a secured seat for next season anyway, so unlikely to stall out like Ocon did. So really the only reason is for sporting reasons, and Mercedes don't want a #2 that challenges Hamilton. Rosbergs retirement got Toto out of having to remove one of them last time, and now they have the non threatening #2 they want.

I also have doubts that either Williams or Bottas would want to do a 3 year deal.

It's possible but pretty unlikely imo. I don't see a massive amount of motivation for them to do it.
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Post by Marky Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:25 am

Another possibility is Mercedes assist Williams a lot more than just with an engine, in the same way that Racing Point have a lot of Merc parts, making it more worthwhile for Russell to have next season at Williams.

If Russell was in a midfield battle rather than being at the back, it would be far beneficial for him and for Mercedes in the long run

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Post by GSC Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:36 am

That's illegal from next year
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Post by Jeff Navarro Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:21 pm

Any truth in the uk over suggestions that Mercedes have swapped Russell and Bottas for 2021? Seen a few reports in the European media but it’s not from credible sources.

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Post by Just John Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:52 pm

Nothing confirmed.

All I’ve seen, is Finnish media labelling Bottas’ performance embarrassing, and them calling Russell the ‘future’ of the team. Bottas and Russell have also randomly removed Mercedes and Williams from their Instagram bios. Mercedes says fans shouldn’t read anything into it.

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Post by No name Bertie Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:07 pm

Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.

We don't know how long Hamilton will remain in F1 but Hamilton has indicated he plans to stay for a few more years yet but wants to be free to be more politically active. There has been a suggestion that with Mercedes laying off staff for various reasons that an increase in what they already pay their drivers may not look good internally.

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Post by Marky Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:05 am

No name Bertie wrote:Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.

We don't know how long Hamilton will remain in F1 but Hamilton has indicated he plans to stay for a few more years yet but wants to be free to be more politically active.  There has been a suggestion that with Mercedes laying off staff for various reasons that an increase in what they already pay their drivers may not look good internally.

I've heard similar, basically that if Russell performs this well then Mercedes can make Hamilton lower his wage demands, knowing they'll have a good enough team of Bottas and Russell if Hamilton doesn't re-sign

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Post by Just John Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:06 am

According to German media, Hamilton has recorded a negative test. Flying to Abu Dhabi, and will have another test on Friday. If negative, he will take his place in the Mercedes car on Saturday. Could be Vandoorne in the Mercedes in FP1/FP2, and then Russell back to Williams.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:47 am

Mercedes confirm Hamilton back and Russell back to Williams.

And so ends the fun
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Post by Just John Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:08 pm

Sergio Perez has an engine change so starts from back of grid.

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Post by Marky Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:26 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/55267490

Great read about R Lance

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Post by Marky Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:26 am

Just John wrote:Sergio Perez has an engine change so starts from back of grid.

He'll have to settle for 4th place Laugh

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Post by No name Bertie Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:40 am

George Russell goes from leading the field to trailing at the back as he returns to the Williams.

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Post by dyrewolfe Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:50 am

Just John wrote:He could be attracted by a three year deal at Williams for example. Safeguards his future, instead of a one year deal at Merc, being heavily beaten again, and then shipped out. Could leave himself in a Perez situation this time next year. No guarantee of a seat for him in 22’.

Not sure that paying off a one year deal is that big an obstacle and Williams have usually bent over relatively easily to whatever Mercedes have wanted or demanded.

I would think that rather depends on the new owners' philosophy. The Williams family were quite keen on nurturing new talent and giving young drivers a chance. Will the current team boss feel the same way, or would they see Bottas as a "safe pair of hands" for helping develop a car under the new regs?

From Valtteri's view point, if its a toss up between being a reserve / test driver or having a race seat, I imagine he'd prefer the latter (if he still wants to continue in F1).

Lot of ifs and buts there.

Also the budget caps start from next season, so driver salaries will suddenly become more of an issue than they might otherwise have been.


No name Bertie wrote:
George Russell goes from leading the field to trailing at the back as he returns to the Williams.

Can't be much fun, but he just has to keep telling himself "not for much longer". Mercedes would have to be mad not to bring him over for 2022 at the latest.
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Post by Just John Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:01 am

Verstappen Pole. Bottas 2nd and Hamilton 3rd

This should be interesting tomorrow

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:08 am

Damn Max - where did  that come from? Shocked

First non-Mercedes pole of the season.

Bottas 2nd and Hamilton 3rd.

Incredible effort by Lando Norris to get 4th for McLaren.

Assuming the Red Bull doesn't have the race pace to pull out a lead on the Mercedes, it could be a close battle at the front...for once...



Interesting reaction by Toto Wolff in the interviews. Alonso doing some testing in an old Renault (looks like one of his title-winning cars). "A real car" he says, as it screams past in the background. Good bloke Toto! Laugh I'd forgotten how loud they were! Shocked

Anyone else think it would be an interesting experiment to have Nando line up on the grid in the R25 tomorrow?
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Post by Lowlandbrit Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:56 am

Jeff Navarro wrote:Any truth in the uk over suggestions that Mercedes have swapped Russell and Bottas for 2021? Seen a few reports in the European media but it’s not from credible sources.
No name Bertie wrote:Some have speculated that Mercedes going for Russell rather than Vandoorne to replace covid affected Hamilton for the Sakhir grand prix may be linked to what is happening with Hamilton and his new contract negotiations.
It's obviously not going to happen, but Hamilton and Russell swapping seats would be great entertainment.

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Post by GSC Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:17 am

If they were going to promote Russell I suspect they would've left Lewis at home for this race and get a 2nd look.
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Post by dyrewolfe Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:33 am

Ugh! Another DNF for Perez, as he was working his way through the field (suspected engine failure).

What a way to finish the season...especially when he doesn't yet have a contract for next season.
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