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Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 15 Nov 2020, 10:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

The new season starts next weekend. What are people's hopes and expectations?

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 3:54 pm

Great kick by Ford to finish.

A hectic end to the half though!

When Tigers have shifted the ball we've looked dangerous. Hopefully we see more of it.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 3:56 pm

Turning into a decent game this. Was not looking that way after 20 mins!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:07 pm

Yeah I'd echo its lovely to see such an assured full back display from steward in defence.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:07 pm

This is my first proper look at Steward since his U20s days. He's had a good game, but I thought he looked a bit heavily legged in the foot race with Spencer (which admittedly he won).
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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:09 pm

What about that!

made by Steward again

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:10 pm

What a start to the second half. Freddie Steward is growing every game.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:11 pm

Very good (my stream is obviously behind everyone else's!)
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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:21 pm

This is looking like it will be a very high scoring game. 30 odd beats 30 odd.

Great tackle by van Wyk there. That's a try if Faletau gets over the gain line.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:28 pm

Haha Genge compared to Phil Bennet Very Happy

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:32 pm

So frustrating to give two penalties away in one game for scrabbling forward after a tackle. Just relieves pressures.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:33 pm

Nadolo's ruck clearing is ridiculous at times. He must be one of the most powerful guys to have played rugby!

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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:36 pm

That was a sore one for the young kid

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:36 pm

Another good take in the process but a nasty one for Steward.


Last edited by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:36 pm

Steward is having a very good game.

Whats your thoughts om Genge at the moment?

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:39 pm

I think Genge has been solid. Good in the scrum and defence. He hasn't been quite as prominent as he sometimes is carrying but has looked after the ball well in contact when he has carried.

I rate Genge so highly but my one consistent frustration is he loses the ball in contact more often than necessary by going to high looking to send the tackler flying.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:41 pm

Try for Cameron Henderson, that was a good substitution!

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:41 pm

So great seeing a couple of youngsters combining in Henderson and Martin for that try. Both have been really promising when playing in the first XV.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:44 pm

Jack van Poortvliet has a big boot for a scrum-half. It allows him to hang a lot of height on box kicks which won Tigers the ball back there.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:47 pm

Please to say with my Scottish hat on that Henderson has looked very good since he has come on, definitely one for us for the future

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:48 pm

Henderson has really impressed since coming back to Leicester. Definitely has a bright future.

His running lines off 9 have been standout most times he's come off the bench.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:51 pm

I would say that Steward has shown Watson how to take an up-and-under in this game, very disappointing viewing from an English point of view.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:54 pm

That kick may cost them the game, poor miss

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:55 pm

Cumbrian wrote:I would say that Steward has shown Watson how to take an up-and-under in this game, very disappointing viewing from an English point of view.
Ford has hung some very good (also a few pretty poor I'll admit) kicks up in tough conditions to be fair.

I think Watson is a good fullback but have often said he's a much better winger though. Quality in either position but on the wing he's one of the best in the world.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 4:59 pm

Good win for Leicester and a very entertaining game. You would not have predicted that after 20 mins!

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:02 pm

The first 20 minutes was some of the worst I've seen but the next 60 were much improved. A good win in the end.

Steward and Wiese (after the very poor tackle) were excellent.

I thought Kobus van Wyk really grew into the game for Tigers as well. He's a good player who I'm looking forward to seeing more of.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:03 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:That's because Rowlands was rank average before last season. The introduction of Richard Blaze as forwards coach at Wasps has seen him step up a level and Launchbury refind his best form. I thought Launchbury was pretty lucky to go to the world cup and was drifting out the reckoning until post Covid when Wasps were suddenly flying and he and Rowlands were at the heart of everything. Stooke is being lined up to replace Rowlands and I expect he'll have a similar impact with Blaze looking to bring him back to his best, I don't think he's been capped by England but has been in England squads, if Wales can find a tenuous link he could be another possible 'find'.

Ribbans has been very good for some time. Has been a little patchy in form recently but that's probably because Saints are struggling.

You won't see many English locks going elsewhere because the money is here. Parling and Kruis have/are having trips in Japan (Parling went on to Australia and is now in their international coaching set up) and Charlie Matthews is over in France I believe. Rowlands is obviously joining Williams, Tomkins, Sheedy and Moriarty in filling out the Welsh squad having come through the English system.

If you give most English club fans a choice of three locks from the Prem for their team I doubt Rowlands will make any and Launchbury very few (unless they are Wasps fans).

Yep, wasn't he from the championship though? Got to give it to the guy for getting to where he is now, but would agree the likes of Blaze and Blackett have had a massively positive effect on Wasps. Yeah Stooke has a Welsh mami so I heard.

Ribbans was a good find, playing Currie Cup rugby so I imagine he's fairly cheap, but has grown to become the heart of everything Saints do well. 600K Biggar is doing alright for himself too.

It is slightly concerning that a host of players didn't come through out system. I think it highlights inadequacies, but we did set up the exiles programme for a reason. I don't think Tompkins is really international standard btw. The rest and LRZ will be in the Wales team for a while though. if Lloyd Evans has a good season in the 10 shirts for Glaws, the Wales selectors will be dangling the carrot again.

I wouldn't have Rowlands in top 3, top 5 probably.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:03 pm

Thing is..Steward is 6'5 isnt he? So he will put a few KGs on aswell.

He'll be some size of a full back. Could be the one England are looking for.. but Jones seems to prefer a playmaker.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:03 pm

king_carlos wrote:Neither of them gets hated on Mikey. We just think that Itoje, Lawes, Kruis, Launchbury, Hill and Ewels are all better players. The first four in particular are massively better.

I'd rate Rowland's on par with the Saints pair of Ribbans and Moon. Difference being though that those two Saints locks are 4 and 5 years younger respectively so have much more time and scope to keep developing. Rowland's is only a few months younger than Laucnbury and Jake Ball. He's not a young whipper snapper who is going to improve much more.

Once Sarries come back up to the Premiership I'd expect Joel Kpoku to float around England training squads as an 'apprentice player' as well.

The England vs Wales game summed up Rowland's well in my opinion. He didn't do anything wrong but was pretty much anonymous for half an hour after coming on against an England side with two Lions locks unavailable in Kruis and Lawes. I didn't think Jonny Hill had the best Autumn but still thought he was more prominent in his 15 minutes off the bench that game.

Good club player but at nearly 30 years old he isn't going to develop into a Luke Charteris style lineout operator who can make 20 tackles a game.

Don't disagree with much of that. Wales aren't playing well right now, there's been a few players who look good elsewhere come in and have a limited impact, Rowlands is one of them. We didn't help him due to our poor carrying and ball retention.

He's got a few good years left, probably until 33 or 35 I'd say. Rowlands has had good stats this season, tackles being one of them so I'm not sure why you're predicting that. I expect he'll be partnered with Beard in the 6N. If Pivac has any sense he'll try and make us more of a set piece team.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:06 pm

[quote="Cumbrian"]
mikey_dragon wrote:

Very Happy  You realise Launchbury won MOTM yesterday, whilst you were obsessing about Rowlands?!

As it goes I agree that South Africa have the best depth at lock in the world, there is no shame in being second to that. We do our fair share to spread the  love around too mind. Over the last 3-4 years Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland have all benefited (to varying degrees) from locks who have been born and raised in England or come through our system.

Yes. Do you realise that Rowlands was MOTM last weekend and every other week, yet you're having your Launchbury love-in every day? I don't quite get how he's rated so highly.

Yes they do, and there isn't a nation that comes halfway. True, there are England players here and there. Perhaps you'd better concentrate on investing in your own for a change Very Happy.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:08 pm

Btw, I watched a bit of Glaws vs Sale. Did anyone see how crisp and accurate Stephen Varney's passing was? And Dragons are stuck with Tavis Knoyle... I wish Varney had chosen us now.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:13 pm

[quote="mikey_dragon"]
Cumbrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

Very Happy  You realise Launchbury won MOTM yesterday, whilst you were obsessing about Rowlands?!

As it goes I agree that South Africa have the best depth at lock in the world, there is no shame in being second to that. We do our fair share to spread the  love around too mind. Over the last 3-4 years Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland have all benefited (to varying degrees) from locks who have been born and raised in England or come through our system.

Yes. Do you realise that Rowlands was MOTM last weekend and every other week, yet you're having your Launchbury love-in every day? I don't quite get how he's rated so highly.

Yes they do, and there isn't a nation that comes halfway. True, there are England players here and there. Perhaps you'd better concentrate on investing in your own for a change Very Happy.

Hey we're all happy then mikey. You would prefer Rowlands and I think everyone else would prefer launchbury.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:14 pm

Spot on 7.5

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:15 pm

Bath will be looking around and thinking how have we lost that. And the answer will be never getting to grips with the breakdown and leicester carrying (walking) through them at times. Thought Genge and ford were magnificent. Youngs the 3rd best scrum half on the pitch though. First time I've had a proper look really at van Poortvliet and he looks a good prospect.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:22 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

Very Happy  You realise Launchbury won MOTM yesterday, whilst you were obsessing about Rowlands?!

As it goes I agree that South Africa have the best depth at lock in the world, there is no shame in being second to that. We do our fair share to spread the  love around too mind. Over the last 3-4 years Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland have all benefited (to varying degrees) from locks who have been born and raised in England or come through our system.

Yes. Do you realise that Rowlands was MOTM last weekend and every other week, yet you're having your Launchbury love-in every day? I don't quite get how he's rated so highly.

Yes they do, and there isn't a nation that comes halfway. True, there are England players here and there. Perhaps you'd better concentrate on investing in your own for a change Very Happy.

Will Rowlands wins MOTM every week except this one, have you been on the sauce?  The 'love in', is because Launchbury is a much better player (which is why he has 60+ caps and Rowlands didn't get capped until he was nearly 30).  There is no contest.

Honestly don't get what you're trying to say with the last part.  We shouldn't invest time/money players who have might potentially play for another nation?  Given the mish-mash of genealogy of these islands we would never develop another player (neither would Wales).  Help me out here?
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:That's because Rowlands was rank average before last season. The introduction of Richard Blaze as forwards coach at Wasps has seen him step up a level and Launchbury refind his best form. I thought Launchbury was pretty lucky to go to the world cup and was drifting out the reckoning until post Covid when Wasps were suddenly flying and he and Rowlands were at the heart of everything. Stooke is being lined up to replace Rowlands and I expect he'll have a similar impact with Blaze looking to bring him back to his best, I don't think he's been capped by England but has been in England squads, if Wales can find a tenuous link he could be another possible 'find'.

Ribbans has been very good for some time. Has been a little patchy in form recently but that's probably because Saints are struggling.

You won't see many English locks going elsewhere because the money is here. Parling and Kruis have/are having trips in Japan (Parling went on to Australia and is now in their international coaching set up) and Charlie Matthews is over in France I believe. Rowlands is obviously joining Williams, Tomkins, Sheedy and Moriarty in filling out the Welsh squad having come through the English system.

If you give most English club fans a choice of three locks from the Prem for their team I doubt Rowlands will make any and Launchbury very few (unless they are Wasps fans).

Yep, wasn't he from the championship though? Got to give it to the guy for getting to where he is now, but would agree the likes of Blaze and Blackett have had a massively positive effect on Wasps. Yeah Stooke has a Welsh mami so I heard.

Rowlands had a loan at Jersey I think. He was Wasps academy but like many had a few games in the Championship to toughen him up. Yeah the change in leadership at Wasps has had an incredible effect.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:33 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thing is..Steward is 6'5 isnt he? So he will put a few KGs on aswell.

He'll be some size of a full back.  Could be the one England are looking for.. but Jones seems to prefer a playmaker.

Steward played some flyhalf at school and outside centre before Tigers moved him to 15 in the academy. He's got a good pass and a massive boot. Almost reminiscent of Francois Steyn if he bulks up a bit though Steyn is a bit short in comparison at only 6ft3. 

It's surely only a matter of time before Eddie calls up Steward. He was incredible today and an absolute weapon under the high ball. In horrible conditions he was imperious and had someone who many would have at 15 for England panicking and in the end sliding to take him out because he was worried about being beaten to the ball again. Bath stopped kicking to compete in range of Steward and kicked short because they didn't back anyone to stop him taking the ball. Tackling he's one of our best in the backs (possibly the best). He would add a solid foundation for England though he's still growing into his attacking game at senior level.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:50 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Will Rowlands wins MOTM every week except this one, have you been on the sauce?  The 'love in', is because Launchbury is a much better player (which is why he has 60+ caps and Rowlands didn't get capped until he was nearly 30).  There is no contest.

Honestly don't get what you're trying to say with the last part.  We shouldn't invest time/money players who have might potentially play for another nation?  Given the mish-mash of genealogy of these islands we would never develop another player (neither would Wales).  Help me out here?

Well you pointed out a MOTM award, whilst I merely alluded to another MOTM award. What’s your deal?
Launchbury, like Lawes, is a good player but spent a chunk of their career being overhyped and failing to deliver. I think that’s fair to say. Both are better players at this stage of their career though.

I’m saying don’t invest in the Sheedy’s, Moriarty’s and Rees-Zammit’s of the world if it bothers you. Rowlands and Francis were poached so you wouldn’t have seen that coming I guess, that’s the granny rule for you.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 5:56 pm

Launchbury was MOTM yesterday... Incorrectly in my view should have been Gaskell. Not really a big Launchbury fan personally as I think there's locks available to England that can offer as much in the loose but do a better job in the tight. Johnny Hill for starters.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:03 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Launchbury was MOTM yesterday... Incorrectly in my view should have been Gaskell. Not really a big Launchbury fan personally as I think there's locks available to England that can offer as much in the loose but do a better job in the tight. Johnny Hill for starters.

Itoje is better than launchbury in the loose. That's it.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:10 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Launchbury was MOTM yesterday... Incorrectly in my view should have been Gaskell. Not really a big Launchbury fan personally as I think there's locks available to England that can offer as much in the loose but do a better job in the tight. Johnny Hill for starters.

Itoje is better than launchbury in the loose. That's it.
He's incomparably better as a lineout jumper as well. Both are very good in the maul.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Will Rowlands wins MOTM every week except this one, have you been on the sauce?  The 'love in', is because Launchbury is a much better player (which is why he has 60+ caps and Rowlands didn't get capped until he was nearly 30).  There is no contest.

Honestly don't get what you're trying to say with the last part.  We shouldn't invest time/money players who have might potentially play for another nation?  Given the mish-mash of genealogy of these islands we would never develop another player (neither would Wales).  Help me out here?

Well you pointed out a MOTM award, whilst I merely alluded to another MOTM award. What’s your deal?
Launchbury, like Lawes, is a good player but spent a chunk of their career being overhyped and failing to deliver. I think that’s fair to say. Both are better players at this stage of their career though.

I’m saying don’t invest in the Sheedy’s, Moriarty’s and Rees-Zammit’s of the world if it bothers you. Rowlands and Francis were poached so you wouldn’t have seen that coming I guess, that’s the granny rule for you.

I pointed out the MOTM, because I though the timing of you decrying the 'Launchbury love in' in favour of biging up Rowlands was unfortunate/funny (he'd just had a demonstrably better game that your boy), it isn't a particularly important thing (until you decided to descend into the realms of fantasy Very Happy). They may have gotten better, but at each stage they were also better players than Rowlands ever was. What's your narrative here? Eddie hand's Launchbury his 50th cap but wistfully thinks 'I wonder what Will Rowlands is doing right now?'.

I'm still not clear exactly what your point is. The only one of the players you've mentioned that had anything to do with England age grade was Ross Moriarty, and being born in England, he may have chosen to represent the dark-side. (you're welcome for the development by the way Very Happy). You still seem to be under the misapprehension that I think it is a bad thing that English people represent other nations, I largely don't care (unless it is Joe Heyes, hands off!). I also don't mind helping players develop through out pathways. My ONLY objection in all of this is that we feel salty/ like we've missed out on Will Rowlands because it patently isn't true. Hug
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:17 pm

king_carlos wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Launchbury was MOTM yesterday... Incorrectly in my view should have been Gaskell. Not really a big Launchbury fan personally as I think there's locks available to England that can offer as much in the loose but do a better job in the tight. Johnny Hill for starters.

Itoje is better than launchbury in the loose. That's it.
He's incomparably better as a lineout jumper as well. Both are very good in the maul.

Personally the lack of lineout from launchbury I thought would have been put to bed last year. Him and itoje looked great together. Hey ho, it'll save for the 6 nations!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:46 pm

Cumbrian wrote:I pointed out the MOTM, because I though the timing of you decrying the 'Launchbury love in' in favour of biging up Rowlands was unfortunate/funny (he'd just had a demonstrably better game that your boy), it isn't a particularly important thing  (until you decided to descend into the realms of fantasy  Very Happy).  They may have gotten better, but at each stage they were also better players than Rowlands ever was.  What's your narrative here?  Eddie hand's Launchbury his 50th cap but wistfully thinks 'I wonder what Will Rowlands is doing right now?'.

I'm still not clear exactly what your point is.  The only one of the players you've mentioned that had anything to do with England age grade was Ross Moriarty, and being born in England, he may have chosen to represent the dark-side. (you're welcome for the development by the way Very Happy).  You still seem to be under the misapprehension that I think it is a bad thing that English people  represent other nations, I largely don't care (unless it is Joe  Heyes, hands off!).  I also don't mind helping players develop through out pathways.  My ONLY objection in all of this is that we feel salty/ like we've missed out on Will Rowlands because it patently isn't true.  Hug  

You’ve confused yourself a few times now, and you’re starting to confuse me. I haven’t done any of what you’re suggesting. I merely pointed out Rowlands had a good game, and expected some hate to be piled into him - which you and others have done as usual. He’s only disliked because he plays for Wales laughing, otherwise he would be thought of more highly in here. Anyway I’m not bothered by it, just happy we have the option and think he can add a lot should he be playing for a Region next season.
Still don’t get your Launchbury love-in and it was actually you who brought him into it, not me. Given only one of the two locks we’re discussing gets any credit, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy. You suggest I always go on about Rowlands yet Launchbury has had a good few years of being overhyped. Not that hard to understand why I coined the phrase Launchbury love-in.

Confused. Again you brought up England (referring to England and Premiership academies) shipping out players to other nations, and don’t seem to like the response. I don’t really have anything to add to what I said so you’ll have to try harder. I don’t remember saying England missed out on Rowlands either. They certainly wouldn’t when they’re busy nicking Ribbans Smile.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 6:48 pm

king_carlos wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Launchbury was MOTM yesterday... Incorrectly in my view should have been Gaskell. Not really a big Launchbury fan personally as I think there's locks available to England that can offer as much in the loose but do a better job in the tight. Johnny Hill for starters.

Itoje is better than launchbury in the loose. That's it.

He's incomparably better.

There fixed it for you. Launchbury did seem to work quite well with Itoje but our lineout wasn't as good as it has been previously and Hill was brought on against France to try and fix the lineout issues. Be interesting to see what Eddie does with Lawes likely to be back in contention as well.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 7:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:I pointed out the MOTM, because I though the timing of you decrying the 'Launchbury love in' in favour of biging up Rowlands was unfortunate/funny (he'd just had a demonstrably better game that your boy), it isn't a particularly important thing  (until you decided to descend into the realms of fantasy  Very Happy).  They may have gotten better, but at each stage they were also better players than Rowlands ever was.  What's your narrative here?  Eddie hand's Launchbury his 50th cap but wistfully thinks 'I wonder what Will Rowlands is doing right now?'.

I'm still not clear exactly what your point is.  The only one of the players you've mentioned that had anything to do with England age grade was Ross Moriarty, and being born in England, he may have chosen to represent the dark-side. (you're welcome for the development by the way Very Happy).  You still seem to be under the misapprehension that I think it is a bad thing that English people  represent other nations, I largely don't care (unless it is Joe  Heyes, hands off!).  I also don't mind helping players develop through out pathways.  My ONLY objection in all of this is that we feel salty/ like we've missed out on Will Rowlands because it patently isn't true.  Hug  

You’ve confused yourself a few times now, and you’re starting to confuse me. I haven’t done any of what you’re suggesting. I merely pointed out Rowlands had a good game, and expected some hate to be piled into him - which you and others have done as usual. He’s only disliked because he plays for Wales laughing, otherwise he would be thought of more highly in here. Anyway I’m not bothered by it, just happy we have the option and think he can add a lot should he be playing for a Region next season.
Still don’t get your Launchbury love-in and it was actually you who brought him into it, not me. Given only one of the two locks we’re discussing gets any credit, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy. You suggest I always go on about Rowlands yet Launchbury has had a good few years of being overhyped. Not that hard to understand why I coined the phrase Launchbury love-in.
Not bothered by it but felt the need to send a one sentence post about Rowland's having a good game 'bring on the English haters' just to get some attention on a non issue. Namely that Rowland's is a good Prem lock who never got anywhere near the England side but can get in the Wales setup due a dearth of tight five options leading to the squad Rowlands has got international recognition with dive bombing to 9th in the world rankings.

As seen by current posts about Launchbury he isn't rated as highly as Itoje, Kruis or Lawes by most posters on 606v2. Launchbury is a very good lock who is excellent in certain areas but has weaknesses in others. When Itoje, Kruis and Lawes were available he often didn't get a look in. That doesn't make him a bad player given all three are test Lions.

I seem to remember you suggesting that the only reason some 'English posters' pointed out extenuating circumstances in Tompkins defensive mistakes for Wales during the Six Nations was because he came through an English club and we only liked Wales players who had a connection to England. So which is is? Do all England fans hate all players who play for Wales? Or is it just Rowlands?

Or just perhaps might it be that we rate Rowlands but rate Launchbury who has nearly 70 caps at the same age much higher and a few other options higher still.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 7:30 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Thing is..Steward is 6'5 isnt he? So he will put a few KGs on aswell.

He'll be some size of a full back.  Could be the one England are looking for.. but Jones seems to prefer a playmaker.

It's surely only a matter of time before Eddie calls up Steward.

Well he would have been watching this game and can only have been impressed. He was a rock at the back. Something i genuinely think England have lacked.

Just needs to continue improving alround which will come with playing games..he seems to have made that spot his own now already.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 7:39 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Thing is..Steward is 6'5 isnt he? So he will put a few KGs on aswell.

He'll be some size of a full back.  Could be the one England are looking for.. but Jones seems to prefer a playmaker.

It's surely only a matter of time before Eddie calls up Steward.

Well he would have been watching this game and can only have been impressed. He was a rock at the back. Something i genuinely think England have lacked.

Just needs to continue improving alround which will come with playing games..he seems to have made that spot his own now already.
He's keeping Murimurivalu out of his usual position which is a good start for sure.

Whilst Tigers aren't playing great rugby yet it's nice to see young players keeping strong players out the first XV through performance rather than necessity. For a while it felt like Tigers just waited for injuries/international call ups to deplete the squad to the point where we had no choice but to throw inexperienced players out at once like sacrificial lambs.

Seeing Steward playing alongside Nadolo and van Wyk or Martin alongside Liebenberg and Wiese is so much more encouraging for the future.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 7:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:I pointed out the MOTM, because I though the timing of you decrying the 'Launchbury love in' in favour of biging up Rowlands was unfortunate/funny (he'd just had a demonstrably better game that your boy), it isn't a particularly important thing  (until you decided to descend into the realms of fantasy  Very Happy).  They may have gotten better, but at each stage they were also better players than Rowlands ever was.  What's your narrative here?  Eddie hand's Launchbury his 50th cap but wistfully thinks 'I wonder what Will Rowlands is doing right now?'.

I'm still not clear exactly what your point is.  The only one of the players you've mentioned that had anything to do with England age grade was Ross Moriarty, and being born in England, he may have chosen to represent the dark-side. (you're welcome for the development by the way Very Happy).  You still seem to be under the misapprehension that I think it is a bad thing that English people  represent other nations, I largely don't care (unless it is Joe  Heyes, hands off!).  I also don't mind helping players develop through out pathways.  My ONLY objection in all of this is that we feel salty/ like we've missed out on Will Rowlands because it patently isn't true.  Hug  

You’ve confused yourself a few times now, and you’re starting to confuse me. I haven’t done any of what you’re suggesting. I merely pointed out Rowlands had a good game, and expected some hate to be piled into him - which you and others have done as usual. He’s only disliked because he plays for Wales laughing, otherwise he would be thought of more highly in here. Anyway I’m not bothered by it, just happy we have the option and think he can add a lot should he be playing for a Region next season.
Still don’t get your Launchbury love-in and it was actually you who brought him into it, not me. Given only one of the two locks we’re discussing gets any credit, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy. You suggest I always go on about Rowlands yet Launchbury has had a good few years of being overhyped. Not that hard to understand why I coined the phrase Launchbury love-in.

Confused. Again you brought up England (referring to England and Premiership academies) shipping out players to other nations, and don’t seem to like the response. I don’t really have anything to add to what I said so you’ll have to try harder. I don’t remember saying England missed out on Rowlands either. They certainly wouldn’t when they’re busy nicking Ribbans Smile.





Umm sorry Mikey, wrong again.  You were the first person to mention Launchbury.


mikey_dragon wrote:
Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in... Laugh You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. on.


I’m not sure why you think I’m confused/hate Rowlands.   You’ve stated that if people don’t rate Rowlands it is because he plays for Wales.  I’ve pointed out that it is nonsensical because he was never anywhere near the England squad, therefore why would they?

Where is the hypocrisy? Who says Rowlands doesn’t get any credit?  A couple of people here (myself included) have stated that he is a very good club player and will hold his own at international level.  What do you want?  Us to claim he is the greatest lock since Willie John?  I (we) have simply stated that he isn’t as good as Launchbury (or indeed a number of other players) and stated why we think this.  

Point out exactly how/ where Launchbury has been overhyped.  It’s not like we said that he wins MOTMs very week like you did about Rowlands.

I didn’t suggest you ‘always go on about Rowlands’ either (projecting much?), I was responding to an unsolicited (chippy!) comment made by you in the first place.

I mentioned English locks playing for other nations because you wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

Again it was a mild rebuttal to the idea that England don’t contribute locks to other countries .  Again I’ll reiterate that I don’t mind that it happens, I just acknowledged that it does.  

Come now you ‘don’t remember saying that England missed out on Rowlands’. you’ve heavily implied that this is your belief, why else would you mention Launchbury’s supposed love in?  You’ve tried to stir this particular pot before.  

You seem to have a hair in your backside about Ribbans.  You realise that he is uncapped, yes?  It is entirely possible that he will never be capped, players fade in and out of the fringes of the England squad all the time.
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 7:54 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Thing is..Steward is 6'5 isnt he? So he will put a few KGs on aswell.

He'll be some size of a full back.  Could be the one England are looking for.. but Jones seems to prefer a playmaker.

It's surely only a matter of time before Eddie calls up Steward.

Well he would have been watching this game and can only have been impressed. He was a rock at the back. Something i genuinely think England have lacked.

Just needs to continue improving alround which will come with playing games..he seems to have made that spot his own now already.

Most of his game looks good it's the confidence to join the attack and step into the line and link that's been slow. When he does it he's good, see his try (lovely line). He was got the speedy footwork of the other back three options and never will have but needs to keep developing that attacking and counter attacking game so that stops being something of note. 

Tigers haven't had a rock at th back like him since Murphy retired. Very different players and Murphy could never tackle like Steward. You have to take notice when the opposition's international scrum half has bothered to research a 20 year old fullback (just 20) and is kicking short to try and stop him taking all the box kicks and when he makes a break immediately goes to the chip because he knows he won't be able to step him. Of Jones will show Steward removed Bath's ability to kick to compete and be thinking what a weapon that could be in kick heavy international rugby.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 03 Jan 2021, 9:44 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Umm sorry Mikey, wrong again.  You were the first person to mention Launchbury.


mikey_dragon wrote:
Yet this place remains a Launchbury love-in... Laugh You guys overrate your lock depth for starters. on.


I’m not sure why you think I’m confused/hate Rowlands.   You’ve stated that if people don’t rate Rowlands it is because he plays for Wales.  I’ve pointed out that it is nonsensical because he was never anywhere near the England squad, therefore why would they?

Where is the hypocrisy? Who says Rowlands doesn’t get any credit?  A couple of people here (myself included) have stated that he is a very good club player and will hold his own at international level.  What do you want?  Us to claim he is the greatest lock since Willie John?  I (we) have simply stated that he isn’t as good as Launchbury (or indeed a number of other players) and stated why we think this.  

Point out exactly how/ where Launchbury has been overhyped.  It’s not like we said that he wins MOTMs very week like you did about Rowlands.

I didn’t suggest you ‘always go on about Rowlands’ either (projecting much?), I was responding to an unsolicited (chippy!) comment made by you in the first place.

I mentioned English locks playing for other nations because you wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

but you're not filling every club and other nations with starting lock forwards like SA do. Once that happens then you can talk about depth.

Again it was a mild rebuttal to the idea that England don’t contribute locks to other countries .  Again I’ll reiterate that I don’t mind that it happens, I just acknowledged that it does.  

Come now you ‘don’t remember saying that England missed out on Rowlands’. you’ve heavily implied that this is your belief, why else would you mention Launchbury’s supposed love in?  You’ve tried to stir this particular pot before.  

You seem to have a hair in your backside about Ribbans.  You realise that he is uncapped, yes?  It is entirely possible that he will never be capped, players fade in and out of the fringes of the England squad all the time.

Oh sorry, I thought I had replied to that comment for some reason. My mistake.

Rowlands gets credit alright albeit from Dallaglio every weekend. I don't see any on here. Wasps have been playing well and Rowlands consistently well for them, since the end of last season. I remember pointing it out here before and was met with a barrage of "he's 100th best lock in England" Rolling Eyes. I comment on a few players other than Rowlands btw, you can trace it back if you like. I knew mentioning the simple fact that he played well again would wind a few up, I'm not entirely sure why that is.

It isn't projecting though is it, when you come out with:

Cumbrian wrote:... biging up Rowlands was unfortunate/funny (he'd just had a demonstrably better game that your boy), it isn't a particularly important thing  (until you decided to descend into the realms of fantasy  Very Happy).  They may have gotten better, but at each stage they were also better players than Rowlands ever was.  What's your narrative here?  Eddie hand's Launchbury his 50th cap but wistfully thinks 'I wonder what Will Rowlands is doing right now?'.

Now I don't think you were entirely serious anyway, neither have I been, but you do seem to have taken in the wrong way and gone off on a tangent.

*I really don't think England missed out on Rowlands. I wasn't serious when I said that; looks as if it wound you up though, I forgot I had even said it. The only reason I typed it was in response to "He'd be the 100th choice lock for England." Smile

England's lock depth isn't anywhere near as good as SA's, get over it.

I rate Dave Ribbans highly, and have spoken about him a few times. I implied it was no shock when he was called up to train with England. That's hardly having a hair up over him...


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