Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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The new season starts next weekend. What are people's hopes and expectations?

Would have made more sense to play one on Friday, the Saturday lunchtime, afternoon and evening. Sunday lunchtime and afternoon. In lockdown there's very little on. Spread the games around, chuck one on free to air. The Beeb are advertising the 6N already so rugby could be in people's minds.

Great news for Wasps & an additional draw for new players. A £2M training complex due to be completed for start of next season.

https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps-appoint-wigley-group-to-create-new-high-performance-centre/

formerly known as Sam wrote:Would have made more sense to play one on Friday, the Saturday lunchtime, afternoon and evening. Sunday lunchtime and afternoon. In lockdown there's very little on. Spread the games around, chuck one on free to air. The Beeb are advertising the 6N already so rugby could be in people's minds.

Glad I am not the only one. No logic to what the Premiership did here.  I like the way you spread out the games.

By the way, I just got around to watching a replay of Quins-London Irish from a few weeks ago.  I couldn't believe London Irish had four really good full on Internationals who come off their bench:
Agustin Creevy - former Puma captain
Rob Simmons - Wallaby Lock
Seán O’Brien - Ireland Flanker (he always punished us)
Nick Phipps - Wallaby Scrum Half

When these guys come on the pitch, the matched turned around quickly.  Unsurprisingly.  How can a team grab four real talented players like them?  If they start playing regularly, London Irish are going to be tough.

I remember being impressed when they played Tigers and put out nearly 200 caps worth of front row with Kepu, Creevy and might have been Dell on the loosehead. Mafi came off the bench. They got Coleman back fit now. Good recruitment in the tight five with all that experience and still at decent ages. Get a good tight five (and they have other younger guys in amongst the more recognisably names) and you'll always have a platform.

Will be a key few months for LI and a bit of an acid test. It's the first time we've had most of our big name forwards actually fit and available. In fact Naholo is the only big name import out injured at the moment (unless someone has gone down in training over the last week or two)

Will be interesting to see whether or not it clicks.

Adam Coleman too?  Allan Dell?  Sekope Kepu.  
With the other guys, that's half a full on international team.  Will be fun to watch.  Unfortunately for my Saints.

Irish v Falcons on sunday...and we are missing Mark Wilson and Gary Graham.

Gary Graham should be available I think. Only England players are barred from selection I thought.

Hope so anyway as theres a fairly big drop off from Dell to our other looseheads at scrum time. Would have beat Quins the other day if we weren't conceding a pen at every scrum.

Yeah, thats the thought Margin, but i wonder if Dean will hold him back. He may want to keep the Scottish lot happy.

I suspect we'll see...
6 Robinson
7 Collett
8 Van Der Walt

TIGERS XV

15 Freddie Steward [17]

14 Kobus Van Wyk [4]

13 Matías Moroni [1]

12 Matt Scott [10]

11 Nemani Nadolo [7]

10 Zack Henry [12]

9 Richard Wigglesworth [3]

1 Luan de Bruin [1]

2 Tom Youngs (c) [199]

3 Dan Cole [247]

4 Harry Wells [105]

5 Calum Green [46]

6 Hanro Liebenberg [20]

7 Tommy Reffell [32]

8 Jasper Wiese [5]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Julián Montoya *

17 Nephi Leatigaga [34]

18 Joe Heyes [52]

19 Tomás Lavanini [21]

20 George Martin [4]

21 Cyle Brink [5]

22 Jack Van Poortvliet [7]

23 Johnny McPhillips [8]

* denotes Leicester Tigers debut

Sale Sharks: 15 Luke James, 14 Byron McGuigan, 13 Sam James,12 Sam Hill, 11 Marland Yarde, 10 AJ MacGinty, 9 Faf de Klerk; 1 Bevan Rodd, 2 Akker van der Merwe, 3 WillGriff John, 4 Cobus Wiese, 5 JP du Preez, 6 Jono Ross (c), 7 Sam Dugdale, 8 Josh Beaumont

Replacements: 16 Curtis Langdon, 17 Ross Harrison, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 James Phillips, 20 Cameron Neild, 21 Will Cliff, 22 Robert du Preez, 23 Tom Roebuck

Had Lloyd featured at 10 for Bristol often? That kid has a bright future!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Irish v Falcons on sunday...and we are missing Mark Wilson and Gary Graham.

That is going to be a very interesting match. Declan Kidney knows how to work with internationals. Falcons will need to come out firing.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah, thats the thought Margin, but i wonder if Dean will hold him back. He may want to keep the Scottish lot happy.

I suspect we'll see...
6 Robinson
7 Collett
8 Van Der Walt  

Yeah, perhaps, although everyone has just had a few weeks out of the firing line, so may be less pressure on that front. We'll see

Does Robinson play much on the flank? Can only remember seeing him at lock.

doctor_grey wrote:When these guys come on the pitch, the matched turned around quickly.  Unsurprisingly.  How can a team grab four real talented players like them?  If they start playing regularly, London Irish are going to be tough.

They won't play regularly because they're too old. If LI kept hold of Ruan Botha and Adam Coleman wasn't as injured, then they would be a force. Tuisue is probably worth a lot more than SOB who is probably on double the earnings.

Botha, was awesome and I was gutted when he left, but Simmons isn't the worst replacement and 31 is a good age for a lock (albeit one with a few miles in the tank)

SOB was always a gamble and certainly hasn't worked out. Kepu probably isn't providing much value either. Mafi's the one that's flown under the radar. Injury issue again, but he's been superb since he got back to fitness a few months ago.

Tuisue is a monster and is definitely our most important forward at the moment. Signed as a 6, but he's become the 8 we've been crying out for. Rogerson has also been great whilst we are talking under the radar players.

Bristol team to face Bath. I'd say Bristol are probably the English team I follow given my (fairly tenuous) links to the city. They play great stuff under Lam though, he's a very good coach. I can't wait to be able to visit Ashton Gate again!

15. Charles Piutau; 14. Luke Morahan, 13. Semi Radradra, 12. Piers O’Conor, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Ioan Lloyd, 9. Andy Uren; 1. Jake Woolmore, 2. Bryan Byrne, 3. John Afoa, 4. Dave Attwood, 5. Chris Vui, 6. Steven Luatua (c), 7. Dan Thomas, Nathan Hughes.

System players: 16. Will Capon, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Jake Armstrong, 19. Ed Holmes, 20. Jake Heenan, 21. Tom Kessell, 22. Callum Sheedy, 23. Alapati Leiua.

Margin_Walker wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah, thats the thought Margin, but i wonder if Dean will hold him back. He may want to keep the Scottish lot happy.

I suspect we'll see...
6 Robinson
7 Collett
8 Van Der Walt  

Yeah, perhaps, although everyone has just had a few weeks out of the firing line, so may be less pressure on that front. We'll see

Does Robinson play much on the flank? Can only remember seeing him at lock.

Robinson on the flank seems to be a new tactic Deano is using this season to have Fuser and Peterson's bulk in the second row but still have Robinson's lineout expertise and work rate. The Falcons pack has been impressive thus far. They undoubtedly have some very good players in there but even so they are playing as more than the sum of their parts.

Margin_Walker wrote:Botha, was awesome and I was gutted when he left, but Simmons isn't the worst replacement and 31 is a good age for a lock (albeit one with a few miles in the tank)

SOB was always a gamble and certainly hasn't worked out. Kepu probably isn't providing much value either. Mafi's the one that's flown under the radar. Injury issue again, but he's been superb since he got back to fitness a few months ago.

Tuisue is a monster and is definitely our most important forward at the moment. Signed as a 6, but he's become the 8 we've been crying out for. Rogerson has also been great whilst we are talking under the radar players.

Botha just filled a gap then? He was probably a bit a cheaper than both of the Aussie locks. 31 isn't too old despite the fact I'm 31 and feel about 40, but a few of the key players are certainly on the wrong side of 30. Matu'u and I thought Kepu were among the best players - clearly not Kepu I guess. Something I've noticed with islanders as well is that they have great longevity compared to European players. You seem well stocked at lock anyway, Sam Carter might be available if you wish to add a third Aussie.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:Botha, was awesome and I was gutted when he left, but Simmons isn't the worst replacement and 31 is a good age for a lock (albeit one with a few miles in the tank)

SOB was always a gamble and certainly hasn't worked out. Kepu probably isn't providing much value either. Mafi's the one that's flown under the radar. Injury issue again, but he's been superb since he got back to fitness a few months ago.

Tuisue is a monster and is definitely our most important forward at the moment. Signed as a 6, but he's become the 8 we've been crying out for. Rogerson has also been great whilst we are talking under the radar players.

Botha just filled a gap then? He was probably a bit a cheaper than both of the Aussie locks. 31 isn't too old despite the fact I'm 31 and feel about 40, but a few of the key players are certainly on the wrong side of 30. Matu'u and I thought Kepu were among the best players - clearly not Kepu I guess. Something I've noticed with islanders as well is that they have great longevity compared to European players. You seem well stocked at lock anyway, Sam Carter might be available if you wish to add a third Aussie.

Botha was meant to be a long term thing, but he opted out in the summer when contracts were being renegotiated and opted to take a contract in Japan. Him and Coleman would have been a really strong partnership. Matu'u has his moments, but can be a card waiting to happen and Creevy is a much better player. Kepu's been quiet, fills a shirt, is probably our best TH and is at least fit. He's not pulling up trees though and isn't getting any younger. I think three international Aussie locks would be overkill! Need to save some cap room for the rest of the squad.

Wasps have signed Ali Crossdale from Sarries for next season.
Could be changes in the back 3 as Lima Sopoaga, Josh Bassett & Rob Miller are coming to end-of their contracts I believe.

I can't say I've seen that much from Crossdale myself but Eddie Jones seems to rate him. Certainly could be a good Premiership winger in the Woodburn or Lewington mould.

Ruan Botha is a hell of a second row in my opinion. With Lavanini going he's probably top of my wish list as a Tigers fan.

king_carlos wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah, thats the thought Margin, but i wonder if Dean will hold him back. He may want to keep the Scottish lot happy.

I suspect we'll see...
6 Robinson
7 Collett
8 Van Der Walt  

Yeah, perhaps, although everyone has just had a few weeks out of the firing line, so may be less pressure on that front. We'll see

Does Robinson play much on the flank? Can only remember seeing him at lock.

Robinson on the flank seems to be a new tactic Deano is using this season to have Fuser and Peterson's bulk in the second row but still have Robinson's lineout expertise and work rate. The Falcons pack has been impressive thus far. They undoubtedly have some very good players in there but even so they are playing as more than the sum of their parts.

Sean has actually played quite a lot at 6 for us. When he first came through fron the academy and was in the European cup 2nd tier , he played 6 and was outstanding. He was top tackler in the cip that year i believe. His defence is brilliant...and he is a big fan favourite.

He has been very impressive this season..and has the athletic ability to play 6, which is an added bonus allowing us to have two bigger monsters in the engine room...which is working nicely so far .....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sean has actually played quite a lot at 6 for us. When he first came through fron the academy and was in the European cup 2nd tier , he played 6 and was outstanding. He was top tackler in the cip that year i believe. His defence is brilliant...and he is a big fan favourite.  

He has been very impressive this season..and has the athletic ability to play 6, which is an added bonus allowing us to have two bigger monsters in the engine room...which is working nicely so far .....

Looking back through his stats earlier he had a couple of starts there in the Challenge Cup against Dragons and Stade but that aside looked like he'd always played lock. His bench appearance could have seen him on the flank having started in the row of course. Undoubtedly a very good player either way, well on his way to being a Falcons stalwart. His injury in 18/19 was a big blow for you.

Looking back at lineups from 5 years ago always feels odd. Guys like Andy Saull and Andy Powell still at Falcons. Laurence Pierce still at Tigers. Goodey making his brief cameo at Falcons. Leroy Houston and Olly Woodburn still at Bath. Faletau hadn't left the Dragons. Kensuke Hatekeyama at Falcons. Somehow it feels like much less and much more than 5 years ago simultaneously!

king_carlos wrote:Ruan Botha is a hell of a second row in my opinion. With Lavanini going he's probably top of my wish list as a Tigers fan.

Botha would certainly fit the bill for replacing Lavanini. I was hoping that Weise had only signed a one year deal at Sale and was going to come and join his big brother at Tigers.

London Irish:
15 Tom Parton, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Billy Meakes, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Nick Phipps, 1 Will Goodrick-Clarke, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Sekope Kepu, 4 Steve Mafi, 5 Rob Simmons, 6 Matt Rogerson (c), 7 Seàn O’Brien, 8 Albert Tuisue.

Replacements:
16 Motu Matu’u, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Lovejoy Chawatama, 19 Adam Coleman, 20 Ben Donnell, 21 Blair Cowan, 22 Ben Meehan, 23 Terrence Hepetema.

London Irish fans get to find out where we really are as a side this weekend. With the exception of Naholo and Hoskins, that's our best 23. They need to stand up and put in a performance against a Falcons side who will come to us fancying getting a win.

Falcons for LIrish

This lineup looks to me like we are going to go for it. Really attack Irish...
Gary Graham is selected after all...

1 Trevor Davison
2 George McGuigan
3 Logovi’i Mulipola
4 Greg Peterson
5 Marco Fuser
6 Sean Robinson (co-captain)
7 Philip van der Walt
8 Gary Graham

9 Louis Schreuder
10 Joel Hodgson
11 Ben Stevenson
12 Toby Flood (co-captain)
13 Matias Orlando
14 Adam Radwan
15 Tom Penny

Replacements
16 Jamie Blamire
17 Kyle Cooper
18 Mark Tampin
19 Will Montgomery
20 John Hardie
21 Sam Stuart
22 Brett Connon
23 George Wacokecoke

Feels a bit odd as a neutral looking at the LI and Falcons game and thinking that could definitely be worth a watch. Been a while since the last time that happened.

Definitely looking forward to this one against an in form Newcastle team.

It's the strongest team on paper we've put out for a long time, but we all know games aren't won on paper. Certainly no excuse not to put a performance in though.

Really good to see the likes of Loader and Hepetema back fit again. Really strengthens the backline depth.

Loader and Hassell-Collins Vs Radwan and Stevenson the battle of the young English speedsters is one I'm looking forward to as well.

Yeah, could be fun. Although the weather doesn't look too clever for Sunday, so we'll see if they get any ball

I don't think I've ever read Lovejoy Chawatama without smiling. What a name.

Ozzy3213 wrote:London Irish:
15 Tom Parton, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Billy Meakes, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Nick Phipps, 1 Will Goodrick-Clarke, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Sekope Kepu, 4 Steve Mafi, 5 Rob Simmons, 6 Matt Rogerson (c), 7 Seàn O’Brien, 8 Albert Tuisue.

Replacements:
16 Motu Matu’u, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Lovejoy Chawatama, 19 Adam Coleman, 20 Ben Donnell, 21 Blair Cowan, 22 Ben Meehan, 23 Terrence Hepetema.

London Irish fans get to find out where we really are as a side this weekend.  With the exception of Naholo and Hoskins, that's our best 23.  They need to stand up and put in a performance against a Falcons side who will come to us fancying getting a win.

Do you reckon Hoskins or Kepu would start at full strength Ozzy?

Lovely to see you back by the way, hope all is well!

Hooper Out

A bright start for Tigers from the forwards.

A slightly fortuitous penalty for Tigers started the momentum that led to that first try but it was well taken by keeping the pressure on and building the penalty count against Sale.

I thought the initial scrum penalty was a touch harsh as it looked like both looseheads collapsed at the same time. Rodd setting pretty high then hinging at the waist whilst de Bruin did the opposite by setting 'long' with his feet a long way back so he ended up flat on his face.

John vs de Bruin looks a good battle at the scrum. John is a good player whilst de Bruin is beast but stronger at tighthead than loosehead.

TightHEAD wrote:Hooper Out

Thought youd be complaining about the knock on before Bristols first. You're growing.

Tempest reverses a pretty solid Tigers penalty. From the scrum instead brilliant Sam James intercept try. Little bit frustrating.

I thought it was a good call with Faf getting back onside to be honest. A lot of refs would miss it.

The offside was touch and go for James but it's a pretty poor pass, just floated out with pressure from the defense.

Liebenberg has been huge so far.

king_carlos wrote:I thought it was a good call with Faf getting back onside to be honest. A lot of refs would miss it.

The offside was touch and go for James but it's a pretty poor pass, just floated out with pressure from the defense.

Liebenberg has been huge so far.

Faff never gets back to the point of the knock on, he gets to the point the player flops forward trying to retrieve it. That's not the same thing.

Disappointing from Tigers. In control but behind at half time.

Wigglesworth's passing has been awful with all of Sale's points coming from bad passes by him. Young JVP might be making an early entrance.

Brilliant by Steward to save a try there. Yarde has serious wheels but he hung onto him then got down to challenge for the ball.

Wigglesworth and Henry have a pretty poor half whilst Faf and MacGinty have been more composed. That's the reason Sale are just up really. Two poor passes from Wigglesworth led to both scoring opportunities whilst Henry has kicked averagely in open play.

Christ, Bath are being properly mugged off against Bristol. I understand that they've had some unfortunate injuries during the game, but this is barely a contest. Impressed with the young Welsh standoff for Bristol, has time on the ball. He reminds me a young George Ford.

It's over as a contest though,might watch the Leicester vs. Sale second half.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I thought it was a good call with Faf getting back onside to be honest. A lot of refs would miss it.

The offside was touch and go for James but it's a pretty poor pass, just floated out with pressure from the defense.

Liebenberg has been huge so far.

Faff never gets back to the point of the knock on, he gets to the point the player flops forward trying to retrieve it. That's not the same thing.

Disappointing from Tigers. In control but behind at half time.

Wigglesworth's passing has been awful with all of Sale's points coming from bad passes by him. Young JVP might be making an early entrance.

Did the knock on not come closer to the ground whilst MacGinty tried to regather rather than the initial collision in the air? Faf was well in front of where MacGinty initially jumped to take the ball but it actually went forward as he tried to gather after the collision with Reffell I thought.

If we saw the closer angle again rather than the wider angle I had a feeling it went forward onto Reffell in the air anyway. Which would be a scrum as well rather than a penalty.

Either way it's swings and roundabouts. The scrum penalty that led to Tigers try could have gone either way in my opinion given both looseheads ended up flat on their faces by different means.

Cumbrian wrote:Christ, Bath are being properly mugged off against Bristol.  I understand that they've had some unfortunate injuries during the game, but this is barely a contest.  Impressed with the young Welsh standoff for Bristol, has time on the ball.  He reminds me a young George Ford.

It's over as a contest though,might watch the Leicester vs. Sale second half.

George has never been as quick as Lloyd. The kid is rapid as well as having a ridiculous skill set. Looks like he could be one hell of a player in a couple of years time. With him and Costelow Wales will be spoilt. Ioan Lloyd's ability to play 15 could give them a very tasty dual playmaker set up.

king_carlos wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

king_carlos wrote:I thought it was a good call with Faf getting back onside to be honest. A lot of refs would miss it.

The offside was touch and go for James but it's a pretty poor pass, just floated out with pressure from the defense.

Liebenberg has been huge so far.

Faff never gets back to the point of the knock on, he gets to the point the player flops forward trying to retrieve it. That's not the same thing.

Disappointing from Tigers. In control but behind at half time.

Wigglesworth's passing has been awful with all of Sale's points coming from bad passes by him. Young JVP might be making an early entrance.

Did the knock on not come closer to the ground whilst MacGinty tried to regather rather than the initial collision in the air? Faf was well in front of where MacGinty initially jumped to take the ball but it actually went forward as he tried to gather after the collision with Reffell I thought.

If we saw the closer angle again rather than the wider angle I had a feeling it went forward onto Reffell in the air anyway. Which would be a scrum as well rather than a penalty.

Either way it's swings and roundabouts. The scrum penalty that led to Tigers try could have gone either way in my opinion given both looseheads ended up flat on their faces by different means.

I thought it definitely hit the floor before he did. Hence why I was so annoyed at that particular decision.

Hopefully we can wear down their forwards and then use our 6-2 bench to turn the screw in the final 20 and pull away.

The bench will be important. Montoya, Leatigaga, Heyes, Lavanini, Martin and Brink is some serious firepower.

Sale have started much better here though.

Try. Tigers just love starting a second half poorly.

Just taken the ref and the TMO an age to come to what was glaringly obvious in that Sale took out Steward way in front of the ball before he could jump for the ball.

Awful start to the half from Tigers. Fresh legs on early is a surprise.

If Henry shows any less composure then I'll be happy to see McPhillips playing fly-half.

king_carlos wrote:If Henry shows any less composure then I'll be happy to see McPhillips playing fly-half.

I'm never happy to see McPhillips at flyhalf or generally in a Tigers shirt to be honest.

Someone has to be in Tempest's ear about the Sale blockers. The catch has two or three teammates forming a screen in front of him every time.

Retreating players being allowed to block kick chase is a frequent frustration of the game similar to caterpillar rucks.

The bigger question as a Tigers fan is why do we respond to reffing interpretations in game at a glacial pace. If the ref is allowing it then Tigers should be giving Steward that protection.

Well taken try by Sale. The difference in quality of kicking this half has been huge.