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Potential Lions Squad - Post ANC Discussion

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Poorfour
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Post by bsando Mon 07 Dec 2020, 3:21 pm

Well despite Fiji being out of the picture in terms of home nation opposition and Japan being unable to make it over it was still a very interesting tournament. England were deserved winners if you ask me and I think Ireland showed they are still a dangerous side who will be a big part of the next Lions tour. The Fact Nemani Nadolo who only played one match was joint top try scorer with Jamie George shows how little free flowing running rugby there was throughout.

In terms of all the player discussions we had over the summer, who do you feel has improved their case after the ANC? And who has perhaps dropped in form or not had the impact you'd have expected? And finally, which newly capped players might be in with a shot as a bolter?

Player Of The Match (Home nations)

Rd 1 - Jamie George (ENG), Caelan Doris (IRE), Duhan van der Merwe (SCO)
Rd 2 - Maro Itoje (ENG), Aaron Wainwright (WAL)
Rd 3 - Sam Underhill (ENG), Iain Henderson (IRE)

Play Off Finals - Taulupe Faletau (WAL), Caelan Doris (IRE), Billy Vunipola (ENG)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn_Nations_Cup#Player_statistics
https://www.autumnnationscup.com/fixtures-tv/

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 07 Dec 2020, 3:36 pm

Good topic. I’m gonna go with the England 23 squad and fill ins where needed from Rest of Britain & Ireland.

ROBI players possible -

Liam Williams
Hogg
Henshaw
Murray
Doris
Russell
DTH van der Merwe
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Post by Fluxy Mon 07 Dec 2020, 3:45 pm

Not really ANC related, but I'm standing by my point of Ryan Baird reaching a Lions squad as a bolter!

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 07 Dec 2020, 4:17 pm

Alun Wynn...certainty. Wink

On a serious note...theres players with pace, power and size all through the B& I teams...we have a real chance of a Series Win...

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Post by king_carlos Mon 07 Dec 2020, 5:39 pm

1.Vunipola, Marler, Sutherland
2.George, Cowan-Dickie, Owens
3.Furlong, Sinckler, Fagerson
4.Itoje, Cummings
5.Ryan, Kruis, Lawes
6.Curry, Navidi, Stander
7.Underhill, Watson
8.Faletau, Vunipola

9.Davies, Murray, T Williams
10.Farrell, Russell, Ford

11.May, Daly, Duhan
12.Aki, Tuilagi
13.Davies, Stockdale, Joseph
14.Watson, Adams
15.Williams, Hogg, Larmour

Scrum-half and centres probably the hardest to pick due to lack of standout options and injuries to key players. If Tomos Williams can regain fitness then I think he will tour, a really good player.

I think Doris, van der Flier and Ritchie will be pushing very hard in the back row.

Tipuric will of course be thereabouts. I've long been a fan of Tips but simply think others are performing better at the moment, particularly for a tour of SA.

If Nowell can get fit he will presumably stand a good chance. Gatland picked him in a competitive position last tour so clearly rates him and I think Nowell has kept improving since.

Henshaw will stand a good chance if Tuilagi can't recover from his achilles injury - a nasty one to rehab.

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Post by TJ Mon 07 Dec 2020, 5:42 pm

Much as it pains me to say it none of the scots laid down a marker bar perhaps Duhan

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Post by Mr Bounce Mon 07 Dec 2020, 5:44 pm

TJ wrote:Much as it pains me to say it none of the scots laid down a marker bar perhaps Duhan

I thought Scott Cummins had a really good Autumn.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 07 Dec 2020, 5:59 pm

Worth noting we will hear about the coaching set-up selected before the players as well. There's a few calls to be made there for Gatland.

If Rowntree wants to go then Gats will presumably stick with him. He's been on the last 3 tours and has a good reputation. Last tour Rowntree and Borthwick shared forwards coaching duties so it would be interesting if Rowntree took that on himself or if there were two of them again. Perhaps Wig and a specialist lineout coach such as Parling or Charteris.

Howley presumably wont be involved again for the backs - well documented. Townsend has stated he'd be interested, Gats asked him last time round but he'd just taken the Scotland job. His time as head coach has been mixed but he got Glasgow playing good attacking rugby.

For defence, Farrell has stated he'd happily be involved again but not sure if the IRFU have stated whether they'd release him? If all parties can agree terms then I'd guess he will go. Gatland toured as forwards coach on '09 whilst head coach of Wales so it's not unprecedented for a head coach from the home nations to tour as assistant.

Kicking coach will most likely remain Gareth Jenkins. Alternatively Ronan O'Gara has a fast growing reputation as a backs and kicking coach.

The breakdown is so important now that a specialist might be even be used there. Warburton was with Wales until moving on in October. Now Gethin Jenkins has taken his place. Warbs could be an outside bet for a specialist coaching position.

Bobby Stridgeon will presumably head up S&C again. There's a few guys like Stridgeon, Prav Mathema (Wales physio) and Phil Pask (England physio) who seem to have adopted the James Robson (Lions doctor from 1993-2013) role of being on tour after tour!

Head coach - Gatland
Forwards coach - Rowntree
Defence coach - Farrell
Backs/attack coach - Townsend
Lineout coach - Parling
Kicking coach - Jenkins or O'Gara

It's tough to predict but perhaps a coaching lineup something like that.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 07 Dec 2020, 6:01 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:
TJ wrote:Much as it pains me to say it none of the scots laid down a marker bar perhaps Duhan

I thought Scott Cummins had a really good Autumn.
I've long been a Jonny Gray advocate but I thought this Autumn showed Cummings pull ahead of Gray as a Scotland's most important lock. He was really strong, backing up a good 2020 Six Nations.

It would be great if Richie Gray could return to form and international rugby for the 2021 Six Nations. He's a test Lion after all and a very good player at his best.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 07 Dec 2020, 9:09 pm

It would be quite easy to say the best 23 for the Lions would be England bit then being bias and all. It is who else would you put in from other teams and which England player would you leave out?

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Post by Gooseberry Mon 07 Dec 2020, 9:41 pm

Is there really only one South African in line to get picked?

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Post by The Oracle Mon 07 Dec 2020, 10:44 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Good topic.  I’m gonna go with the England 23 squad and fill ins where needed from Rest of Britain & Ireland.  

ROBI players possible -

Liam Williams
Hogg
Henshaw
Murray
Doris
Russell
DTH van der Merwe

Liam Williams?! He’s been poor of late. I’d leave him out on current form. Happy to leave the rest of the Welsh boys at home for this one too Smile
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Post by TJ Mon 07 Dec 2020, 11:49 pm

Duhan van der Merve not Daniel Tailliferre Hauman (DTH) van der Merwe

Cummings has been very good indeed but lock is a position of strength for the lions

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Post by Pot Hale Tue 08 Dec 2020, 2:40 am

1.Vunipola, Marler, Sutherland
2.George, Cowan-Dickie, Owens
3.Furlong, Sinckler, Porter
4.Itoje, Cummings, Baird
5.Ryan, Kruis, Lawes
6.Curry, Beirne, Stander
7.Underhill, Leavy
8.Vunipola, Doris

9.Davies, Murray, T Williams
10.Russell, Ford, Sexton

11.May, Daly, Duhan
12.Aki, Henshaw
13.Davies, Ringrose, Joseph
14.Watson, Adams, Stockdale
15.Williams, Hogg, Larmour
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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Dec 2020, 8:42 am

1. Cian Healy
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Andrew Porter
4. Maro Itoje
5. James Ryan
6. Justin Tipuric
7. Peter O'Mahoney
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Bundee Aki
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Duhan van der Merwe
15. Jacob Stockdale

This is Warburton 's starting 15 based on the autumn results. Where england had a clean sweep.

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Post by bsando Tue 08 Dec 2020, 8:44 am

1. Vunipola, Sutherland, Healy
2. George, Cowan Dickie, McInally
3. Furlong, Sinkler, Fagerson
4. Itoje, Cummings, Henderson
5. Gray, Ryan, Hill
6. Lawes, Wainright, Curry
7. Watson, Underhill, Ritchie
8. Doris, Vunipola, Faletau
9. Murray, Davies, Youngs
10. Russell, Ford
11. May, VDM
12. Henshaw, Aki, Farrell
13. Slade, Ringrose
14. Watson, Adams, Daly
15. Hogg, Stockdale, Larmour

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Post by LondonTiger Tue 08 Dec 2020, 8:51 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:1. Cian Healy
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Andrew Porter
4. Maro Itoje
5. James Ryan
6. Justin Tipuric
7. Peter O'Mahoney
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Bundee Aki
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Duhan van der Merwe
15. Jacob Stockdale

This is Warburton 's starting 15 based on the autumn results. Where england had a clean sweep.

Actually it was his "Lions" team of the final round.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:00 am

Almost as brain dead then.

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Post by BamBam Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:24 am

Props - Mako, Marler, Healy, Sinckler, Furlong, Porter
Hooker - McInally, George, LCD
Lock - Itoje, Ryan, Lawes, Cummings, Kruis
Back row - Curry, Underhill, Willis, Watson, Doris, Stander, Vunipola

Scrum half - Murray, Williams, Davies
Fly half - Russell, Ford, Farrell
Centres - Henshaw, Ringrose, Davies, JJ, Johnson
Back 3 - May, Watson, Williams, Hogg, Duhan, Larmour

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:29 am

Surprised to see so many omitting Tuilagi, is that based on the assumption he'll be injured?

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Post by TJ Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:37 am

if you are picking a squad then some of the scots props surely are in play with IMO Fagerson being the best shout. Marler? No way jose!

McInally would normally be in the mix but seems to have lost form same as Brown ritchie has not been good enough this series but again another who should be mentioned


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Post by lostinwales Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:47 am

TJ wrote:if you are picking a squad then some of the scots props surely are in play with IMO Fagerson being the best shout.  Marler?  No way jose!

McInally would normally be in the mix but seems to have lost form same as Brown  ritchie has not been good enough this series but again another who should be mentioned


You didn't see Marler against France then. If his head is in the right place (and it seems so at the moment) he's a very good prop.

Talking of props, I know we don't need another Englishman but I am surprised nobody has mentioned Stuart.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:54 am

The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

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Post by BamBam Tue 08 Dec 2020, 9:57 am

Think Marler is England's best loosehead even now, so I'd be more willing to drop Mako than him!

I've assumed Tuilagi will be out injured, or even if he gets back on the pitch it won't be enough time for him to prove his form, but when has that ever stopped anyone being selected

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 08 Dec 2020, 10:53 am

Squad announcement is supposed to be April, so Tuilagi's chances are pretty zero if hes out for 6 months. Really sad for him, hes missed out so much.

Same for Kruis, it would be a heck of thing to pick a guy who if he's played any rugby at all it will only have been in the Japanese league. Its not exactly like the Lions will be short on locks.


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Post by Collapse2005 Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:11 am

king_carlos wrote:
11.May, Daly, Duhan
12.Aki, Tuilagi
13.Davies, Stockdale, Joseph
14.Watson, Adams
15.Williams, Hogg, Larmour


Stockdale is a winger or a fullback, Ringrose is a 13 for Ireland who might make it.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:11 am

There are still several positions open on the tour and some players really dented their chances of touring. It is hard with injured players like Furlongh, Lawes, Navidi, Tuilagi and Owens whether they deserve the benefit of a doubt for being out. The / is a cop out as one or the other, pretty much evens at this point and you could pick whomever in my eyes and it would not matter

Props: Vunipola, Healy, Sutherland/Marler; Z Fagerson, Sinckler, Porter
Hookers: George and then a steep drop to a host of players with Owens and Herring the favourites
Locks: Itoje, Ryan, Launchbury, Cummings, Henderson/Lawes/J Gray
Back-Row: Stander, Curry, Vunipola, Faletau, Doris, two of POM/Tipuric/Underhill/Watson

SH: Youngs, Murray, G Davies
FH: Russell, Ford, Farrell/Biggar
Centres: Henshaw, Tuilagi, Aki, Slade, Farrell/Joseph
Back 3: May, Stockdale, L Williams, Adams, VDM, Hogg, Daly, Watson

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Post by Collapse2005 Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:15 am

Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Marler is good alright but Cian Healy is a loose head who has always stood up well against all teams including SA. He is really unlucky to have never started a Lions test.

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Post by Maine man Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:39 am

For what it's worth:
Props: Vunipola, Marler, Sutherland, Porter, Furlong, Sinkler
Hookers: George, Cowan-Dickie, ??????
2nd Row: Itoje, Lawes, Henderson, Ryan, Cummings
Back row: Curry, Underhill, Leavy, Watson, Ritchie, Willis, Vunipola, Faleteau
Scrum half: Williams, Davies, Cooney
Outhalf: Russell, Ford, Farrell
Centres: Slade, Ringrose, Henshaw, Joseph, Lawrence
Wings: May, Watson, Adams, Stockdale
Fullback: Hogg, Larmour, Williams

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Post by lostinwales Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:46 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Marler is good alright but Cian Healy is a loose head who has always stood up well against all teams including SA. He is really unlucky to have never started a Lions test.

Healy has been a fantastic player, and you are right it is ridiculous that he's never started a Lions test, but I do wonder if he's getting past it.

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Post by mikey_dragon Tue 08 Dec 2020, 12:14 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:1. Cian Healy
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Andrew Porter
4. Maro Itoje
5. James Ryan
6. Justin Tipuric
7. Peter O'Mahoney
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonny Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Bundee Aki
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Duhan van der Merwe
15. Jacob Stockdale

This is Warburton 's starting 15 based on the autumn results. Where england had a clean sweep.

Actually it was his "Lions" team of the final round.

Tips and POM.... someone better tell Sam to lay off the sauce.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 08 Dec 2020, 12:39 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Surprised to see so many omitting Tuilagi, is that based on the assumption he'll be injured?

i think most people have lost hope for him returning..

Ollie Lawrence is the hope to replace him...see how he goes in the 6n. But doubt he'll be in lions contention.

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Post by majesticimperialman Tue 08 Dec 2020, 5:35 pm

If i was going to pick the Lions squad i would be struggling to pick a scrum half ro be honest most might say Ben Youngs/ Conner Murray. but in personally believe they are getting past their sell by date. Gibson park? would he have a chance? may be.

I certainly would not choose any player who is not playing right now due to injury.
I think we would have a better idea after next years 6ns, who would be the best 23  match day squad.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 08 Dec 2020, 5:49 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Squad announcement is supposed to be April, so Tuilagi's chances are pretty zero if hes out for 6 months. Really sad for him, hes missed out so much.

Same for Kruis, it would be a heck of thing to pick a guy who if he's played any rugby at all it will only have been in the Japanese league. Its not exactly like the Lions will be short on locks.

Corbisiero was picked after very little rugby and played a key role in 2013. Croft as well picked on the same tour after missing a lot of rugby. Wasn't Warburton injured when made captain and picked in the squad for the last tour as well? So not unprecedented for the risk to be taken.

Nature of the Lions is that they will pick a big squad (41 man initial squad in 2017) and if anyone gets injured or can't regain fitness a replacement will be called out.

If Gatland thinks a player could add enough I think the risk will be taken, particularly with Manu as long as he's on course to play the final rounds of Premiership group games.

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Post by Guest Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:26 pm

The England forwards will dominate but we suspected that 18 months ago and it was confirmed 12 months ago. Nothing has changed on that front apart from even more back row options coming from there - I thought the Irish and Welsh might dominate the flanks, but not anymore.

I'd reiterate that all 3 loose heads ought to be English. They're head and shoulders above the competition. The only issue might be that Gatland et al want like for like in some positions. Genge is a good middle ground between the two, though. Ken Owens has benefited by not playing. George tours. LCD should tour. It's a shoot out between Ken and McInally for the third spot but I wouldn't rule out Gatland going for a curve ball here as a former hooker who has a very particular demand for what he likes (physicality) in the position. Both are quite lightweight. Could we see a bolter? Maybe a hope for an Irish hooker? Tighthead is hard to call. Furlong needs to get back to fitness but also form. It's been a while. Stuart is looking very impressive. Francis is decent, Porter also. Not impressed by Fagerson, still looks raw. Hard to call but I think a minimum of 2 English tighthead props tour.

Locks will be Itoje and Ryan +2. AWJ needs probably 2 big games in the Six Nations to book a place - if he shows he can still do a job against either an Ireland, England, or France, he will go. If Wales keep losing he probably won't, though. This is hard to call. Henderson, Quinn Roux both add different skillsets. Jonny Hill could easily work in a Gatlandball gameplan. Launchbury and Kruis both are in the frame but question marks for different reasons. I wouldn't rule out Cory Hill or Jake Ball, either, despite neither being obvious picks. Cummings has a better chance than every other lock for me, unless J Gray turns in to a beast down in Exeter, I think he suffers in a similar way to Launchbury and probably won't tour despite how well he goes.

Billy V, Underhill, Curry nailed on. Faletau just about nailed on as well. Other places are up for grabs. Doris looks very good but will only tour if Wales are pants and/or injuries to one of the other 2. Tipuric has a great chance as a skillful player who can do a job in test matches and midweek games (midweek captain material) and can play 2 games in a week without suffering. Again, England: Earl, Ted Hill, Willis all stand a chance. Willis in particular might be tempting for Gats as a former Wasps man, he has the size and physicality. Watson and/or Ritchie need big Six Nations. Leavy needs to as well for Ireland. Navidi/Moriarty have potential for Wales if they can play as a good versatile option. Wouldn't rule out Wainwright due to what Gatland said about him but I'd be personally amazed if he's even in the reckoning.

Wales are blessed with 9s but none have been allowed to nail down the shirt, which is good - it's the first time in a decade that the Welsh coach is thinking solely of Wales. We need to find a medium term solution to the growing pains of moving on from Gatland and so far none of the young 9s have proven up to scratch. Webb is the most talented 9 available to the Lions and, for me, if he gets game time for Wales he will tour. But it's a big if. Same goes for Murray in terms of minutes. Ben Youngs tours, England fans are overplaying how poor he is. He's a solid, 6-7/10 every game. That's a good thing, and he also missed the last tour through no fault of his own. He'll want to tour. Can't see Gatland going for a guy like Price, too loose. No other Scots impress. No real English alternative here. Gibson Park has a great chance, as does Gareth Davies as a third choice. Tomos Williams has played himself out of the Wales squad so I don't think he'll tour, still too raw in some aspects, but you never know.

10 will be Ford, Farrell, and probably...hmmm. Sexton? It seems surprisingly conservative but then it also seems the most sensible. Is Russell better than Ford? Or Sexton? Depends what you want and what you need. A lot depends on Sexton's durability. Again, like AWJ, a few big games in the 6Ns and he goes from out of the squad to being in the squad, a key man, potentially midweek captain or even starting one or several of the test matches. Anscombe's injury scuppers any hopes for Welsh representation barring injury to Farrell, at which point Biggar becomes an option as the steady eddy 10 (has Farrell ever had a long term injury? the man is durable to the extreme). Can't see any youngster nipping in at this late stage, can't see an under pressure Andy Farrell dropping Sexton for Carbery for instance 6 months before a Lions tour.

Wings will be May as the finisher, his pace is insane. Possibly the fastest player in the NH and probably the fastest white player in world rugby. Only Beauden Barrett might come close. That will count big time when it comes to playing the Saffas who have the benefit of picking from a pick of black wingers who have searing pace as well. May won't be deficient against them and his much improved abilities counteract his potential to still be aimless and a liability at times. As a strike winger, Cokanasiga needs game time otherwise I can see George North touring. You can't argue with his raw attributes. We'll need power v the Boks and he has it from a position we simply do not have bulk. Stockdale and the van der Scot winger have a good chance as midweek finisher type wingers, as does LRZ. Josh Adams will almost certainly tour as the tidy winger, although Earls and Conway will compete with him here. For versatile back 3 options, Liam Williams may well play more on the wing. Anthony Watson could easily tour again as well. Daly will tour but then I think that might leave only Hogg and Halfpenny as the out and out full backs. Hard to cut it down from those options, for me Halfpenny tours he's too good to leave out and woefully underappreciated. No room for Kinghorn or Graham. May, Adams, North, Hogg, Liam Williams, and Halfpenny for me. It won't leave the fans happy...

Centres pick themselves. If Manu is fit he tours. If not, Farrell becomes a 12 option and it forces them to pick a third 10. JD2 is easily the best 13 still but is he crocked? Daly could tour as a utility back and play 13 again, I cannot see him being Gatland's 15, much more likely to play on the wing. Slade definitely tours as a similarly versatile player and I actually see him in the test team ahead of JD2 at the moment due to durability. He's very good. Everyone else flattering to deceive. Duncan Taylor seems unlikely, all the ability but none of the durability. Henshaw flatters to deceive in my opinion, same goes for Ringrose. Joseph needs minutes, and not on the wing. Aki almost certainly tours, so I make it Aki/Manu (or both), JD2, Slade, Daly, possibly Joseph with Farrell covering. The Scots need to show standout performances rather than just being decent. No one really looking threatening from the new crop of centres from any country, J Williams from Wales etc all still a bit raw and don't look better than the incumbent options.

I make the test team:

1. Mako
2. George
3. Furlong/Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Ryan
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Faletau/Vunipola

9. ...pffft. Webb? Murray?
10. Ford
11. Adams
12. Farrell
13. Slade
14. May
15. Hogg

16. LCD/Ken
17. Genge
18. Furlong
19. AWJ/Henderson/no idea
20. Who knows, too many options
21. Webb/Youngs/Murray
22. Sexton
23. L Williams

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Post by Guest Tue 08 Dec 2020, 11:56 pm

I also think there will be several changes between each test match. There will be no 'test team' as such, only a few players around which the test matches are built: Itoje, Farrell etc

We could easily see, for instance

10. Farrell 12. Manu 13. JD2

or

6. Underhill 7. Tipuric 8. Curry

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Post by Fluxy Wed 09 Dec 2020, 5:31 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:That will count big time when it comes to playing the Saffas who have the benefit of picking from a pick of black wingers who have searing pace as well.

It's 2020, I don't believe mentioning skin colour is relevant to a player's attributes.

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Post by Old Man Wed 09 Dec 2020, 5:37 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Dec 2020, 6:45 pm

Fluxy wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:That will count big time when it comes to playing the Saffas who have the benefit of picking from a pick of black wingers who have searing pace as well.

It's 2020, I don't believe mentioning skin colour is relevant to a player's attributes.

Why not? 2020 seems to be the year where everyone can't shut up about race. As we've done away with the idea of colourblindness in favour of establishment backed critical race theory, it would seem incredibly odd NOT to mention race in 2020. In fact, maybe this forum doesn't mention it enough? Maybe we need diversity training for our posts?

Also, do you actually think it's the colour of skin that makes people run fast, or rather associated genetic traits relating to ethnicity?

You sound like one of the types who thinks the demographics of the Olympics 100m sprint final is all down to Jamaicans training harder at sprinting than the Chinese...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268060016_The_evolution_of_speed_in_athletics_Why_the_fastest_runners_are_black_and_swimmers_white


Last edited by rugby racing and beer on Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Dec 2020, 6:47 pm

Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

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Post by Old Man Wed 09 Dec 2020, 7:58 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

Not discounting his quality, just don’t agree on having our “number”

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:10 pm

After watching and napping to the Autumn Internationals, I hope we pick any player who won't kick away possession...........

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Post by Guest Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:17 pm

Old Man wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

Not discounting his quality, just don’t agree on having our “number”

I'd agree with that.

It's a shame we have seen nothing of the WC champions since the final. A massive shame. No doubt keenly felt by South Africans as well.

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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:21 pm

Marler struck me as someone with a bit of a point to prove in that France game. Some great tackles, and some good Prop work at scrum time. I still wonder if he'll rule himself out of the Lions tour though given that touring was a major trigger point for his mental health.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:38 pm

Old Man wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

Not discounting his quality, just don’t agree on having our “number”

Perhaps reading the original comment properly would help.

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Post by Old Man Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:49 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Old Man wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

Not discounting his quality, just don’t agree on having our “number”

Perhaps reading the original comment properly would help.

Must have missed it, perhaps instead of being cryptic you might point me to your original comment regarding Marler?

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Post by Old Man Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:53 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The world cup final showed the value of Marler, he's the only loosehead available capable of doing a number on his South African counterpart.

Uhm, England got one dominant scrum in the final?

Marler is a top scrummager in all fairness. Can't think of many looseheads who are as naturally good in the set piece as he is. Not a desctructive scrummager as such but it seems those types also tend to be the ones who bend the rules. Marler had a tendency to line up at an angle but that seems to have stopped, he's just a hard, square scrummager. There isn't a better LH available to the Lions for the scrum.

Not discounting his quality, just don’t agree on having our “number”

I'd agree with that.

It's a shame we have seen nothing of the WC champions since the final. A massive shame. No doubt keenly felt by South Africans as well.

Yes, really missed the June tour and RC, yet I believe Rassie made the right call, would have been challenging to put a squad together. But at least for the first time in two decades we have a proper Currie Cup with our Speingboks (albeit not all of them) playing.

We have really lost the opportunity to have our younger up and coming players rub shoulders with the experienced players in domestic rugby.

The IP lost to overseas clubs have severely impacted our domestic rugby. Young ones need that time with older, senior players to learn from.

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Post by Soul Requiem Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:53 pm

Saying someone is capable of doing something is not saying they will do something. Instead of jumping in head first at the mere mention that someone may get the better of his South African counterpart perhaps read the post clearly.

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Post by Old Man Wed 09 Dec 2020, 8:55 pm

Well, my humble apologies for misinterpreting your valuable input. I willnow retreat into my corner.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 09 Dec 2020, 10:08 pm

rugby racing and beer wrote:
Fluxy wrote:
rugby racing and beer wrote:That will count big time when it comes to playing the Saffas who have the benefit of picking from a pick of black wingers who have searing pace as well.

It's 2020, I don't believe mentioning skin colour is relevant to a player's attributes.

Why not? 2020 seems to be the year where everyone can't shut up about race. As we've done away with the idea of colourblindness in favour of establishment backed critical race theory, it would seem incredibly odd NOT to mention race in 2020. In fact, maybe this forum doesn't mention it enough? Maybe we need diversity training for our posts?

Also, do you actually think it's the colour of skin that makes people run fast, or rather associated genetic traits relating to ethnicity?

You sound like one of the types who thinks the demographics of the Olympics 100m sprint final is all down to Jamaicans training harder at sprinting than the Chinese...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268060016_The_evolution_of_speed_in_athletics_Why_the_fastest_runners_are_black_and_swimmers_white

Rather than come out with another load of garbage, you should have just admitted that it was a bad idea to bring their skin colour into it - and that it’s actually not relevant to a players attributes. Another one you just couldn’t let go.

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