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F1 2021 Season

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F1 2021 Season - Page 13 Empty F1 2021 Season

Post by Just Gareth Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

The season opening Australian Grand Prix & the Chinese Grand Prix have been postponed.

Bahrain Grand Prix on the 28th March to be the first race of the 2021 season.

Formula 1 to revert to 2pm race start times at European races this year.

F1 practice sessions will be shortened to one hour during Fridays across the 2021 season.

Cognizant have been announced as Aston Martin’s new title sponsor. They will be called ‘Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team’.

Alex Albon will drive in DTM this season, on selected race weekends

Lando Norris has confirmed he has contracted Covid, while staying in, Dubai.


Last edited by Just John on Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by No name Bertie Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:08 pm

Giovinazzi in the Alpha Romeo had a great start getting past Sainz to go P6, but then overcooked a chicane and when returning onto the track had a collision with Sainz who was on the racing line and that basically ended Giovinazzi's race and search for points.   Russell finished in the points again finishing 9th.  Bottas carved through the field finishing third.  Ricciardo had a stormer of a race getting past Verstappen from the start and then more or less leading every lap.  Not sure what happened with Verstappen's pit stop but that basically threw him back down the field.  Then we had the incident which the stewards decided was ultimately Verstappens fault hence the grid penalty for the next race.   A 5 second penalty for Perez which saw him finishing 5th.

McLaren move ahead of Ferrari in the constructors championship - third by 13.5 points.  Norris in fourth place in the drivers championship 14 points ahead of Perez.

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Post by Jeff Navarro Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:12 pm

Giovinazzi fate seems sealed now. He’s shown good qualifying pace but in the races it seems to unravel every time.
Renault junior driver Ghou’s sponsors have offered $30m to take Giovinazzi’s seat.

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Post by No name Bertie Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:20 pm

ps Very bad day for Alpha Tauri. Seems the Gasly sprint race crash destroyed too much of his car and they were unable to get all the new parts working properly. Gasly had qualified P6 for the sprint race but it went wrong for him in the sprint race. Not sure what happened with Tsunoda.

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Post by McLaren Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:20 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Looked a racing incident to me - calls on here for race bans, hilarious

Delighted for McLaren and Riccardo - what a weekend for them! :)

His stupidity endangered a fellow racer, not at all a racing incident.

This is another Verstappen incident where you can try and work out whether by the letter of the law he had the "right" to be there or you can think about whether he should have been there at all. His one weakness might be the inability to think of the bigger picture in the heat of the moment.

The prime example would be when he got involved in a tangle with the lapped Ocon while leading in Brazil in 2018. He could have waited at most one lap to pass him under blues or engage in battle straight away. Likewise at Silverstone this year he chose to hang it out around the outside of copse instead of just biding his time, tucking in behind and having a pop back at Hamilton at a more suitable part of the track.

I think Verstappen is engaged in some macho mindset that leaves him thinking he has to "be a man" during every close encounter on the track, when in reality this lack of cool and calm thinking in close combat is the only thing that will stop him winning championships.
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Post by GSC Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:22 am

There's a pattern going back to the original BBC forum of the other driver being where they shouldn't or lacking race craft in every collision Lewis seems to be involved with. Here Max at fault, at Silverstone if we now start applying our new criteria, not so much.

Maybe we should ask the new Williams driver for his review of those areas, again if we want to be partisan I'm sure there are many fan clubs online, otherwise gonna echo the last call for consistency (in vain)
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Post by McLaren Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:41 am

GSC

As I said, Max was probably within his rights to have a pop there based on the rules. But I would ask what the point was? When you weight up the risks it just doesn't make sense to go for that type of overtake.
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Post by Just Gareth Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:47 am

McLaren wrote:But I would ask what the point was? When you weight up the risks it just doesn't make sense to go for that type of overtake.

The problem is, he feels entitled to every corner. The comment, ‘that’s what happens when you don’t leave me enough room’, is evidence of that. He was still raging from that pitstop, and given his hot headed nature, it was no surprise he went for that reckless move. Horner & Marko were unsurprisingly very quiet, post-race

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Post by Jeff Navarro Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:22 pm

Charles LeClerc will sign new deal with the Scuderia. Current deal expires at the end of 2024. New deal takes that until 2026.
Red Bull had been sniffing around Ferrari’s main man. LeClerc hasn’t shown any interest in leaving Ferrari.

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Post by dyrewolfe Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:56 am

McLaren wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Looked a racing incident to me - calls on here for race bans, hilarious

Delighted for McLaren and Riccardo - what a weekend for them! Smile

His stupidity endangered a fellow racer, not at all a racing incident.

This is another Verstappen incident where you can try and work out whether by the letter of the law he had the "right" to be there or you can think about whether he should have been there at all. His one weakness might be the inability to think of the bigger picture in the heat of the moment.

The prime example would be when he got involved in a tangle with the lapped Ocon while leading in Brazil in 2018. He could have waited at most one lap to pass him under blues or engage in battle straight away. Likewise at Silverstone this year he chose to hang it out around the outside of copse instead of just biding his time, tucking in behind and having a pop back at Hamilton at a more suitable part of the track.

I think Verstappen is engaged in some macho mindset that leaves him thinking he has to "be a man" during every close encounter on the track, when in reality this lack of cool and calm thinking in close combat is the only thing that will stop him winning championships.

This exactly.

I don't think the argument is so much about whether drivers have the "right" or not to be in a particular position, or attempt an overtake. I mean this is racing and drivers should be trying to overtake at every (sensible) opportunity.

Its more about racecraft and/or simple common sense.  Its about recognising when 2 cars won't fit into a particular part of the track and being prepared to back out, if necessary. Basically is there a high risk of a collision, resulting in DNFs for one or both drivers involved?

As McLaren said - is it worth risking a DNF in the first 10-15 laps of a race, or is it better to back out and try to work another opportunity over the next 30-40 laps?

As I said in an earlier post, Verstappen seems to lack this crucial element to his driving. Compare and contrast the way Hamilton backed out of a similar situation on the first lap, driving across the kerbs and rejoining the track behind Max, when he got squeezed off. Incident avoided and both drivers were able to continue.

I was thinking this might be a case of the red mist descending after RB messed up Max's pit stop. While it undoubtedly didn't help his mindset, he has shown similar reckless behaviour in the past.
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Post by No name Bertie Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:36 am

For the incident at Silverstone (1st sprint race weekend) Hamilton got a five place grid penalty.  In that incident Verstappen crashed out while Hamilton was fine.  Verstappen was taken to hospital for checkups and apart from maybe some bruising was fine.

For the incident at Monza (2nd sprint race weekend) Verstappen got a three place grid penalty.  In that incident both Verstappen and Hamilton's races were ended.  Hamilton appears to have sustained some sort of minor neck or shoulder damage - I don't think he was taken to a hospital for a checkup.  However the halo saved him from much further damage.

These penalties are considered to be relatively minor given the penalties available.  So the stewards deemed these incidents to be more than racing incidents and worthy of minor penalties on the person considered to be most at fault.

What is it about these sprint race weekends?  Next one is in Brazil (12 Nov - 14 Nov).

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Post by Just Gareth Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:39 am

No name Bertie wrote:For the incident at Silverstone (1st sprint race weekend) Hamilton got a five place grid penalty.  In that incident Verstappen crashed out while Hamilton was fine.

What is it about these sprint race weekends?  Next one is in Brazil (12 Nov - 14 Nov).

He didn’t get a five place grid penalty, he got a 10-second time penalty during the race.

Apparently, eight sprint races are pencilled in for, 2022. They offer absolutely nothing, other than randomly destroying an unlucky driver’s entire weekend, or even worse, two drivers from one team, as seen with AlphaTauri in Monza. Poor ticket sales at Monza, also suggests, that it’s not appealing.

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Post by Jeff Navarro Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 am

Just Gareth wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:For the incident at Silverstone (1st sprint race weekend) Hamilton got a five place grid penalty.  In that incident Verstappen crashed out while Hamilton was fine.

What is it about these sprint race weekends?  Next one is in Brazil (12 Nov - 14 Nov).

He didn’t get a five place grid penalty, he got a 10-second time penalty during the race.

Apparently, eight sprint races are pencilled in for, 2022. They offer absolutely nothing, other than randomly destroying an unlucky driver’s entire weekend, or even worse, two drivers from one team, as seen with AlphaTauri in Monza. Poor ticket sales at Monza, also suggests, that it’s not appealing.
Poor ticket sales are due to the extortionate cost the circuit wanted for tickets this year. They are trying to claw back last years lost revenue in a moronic manner. Italy, much like the rest of the world, screwed after Covid. Our people can’t afford to go to Monza at the prices they now want.
If they keep up such bs behaviour it won’t too long before Ferrari takes the Italian GP to Mugello permanently...

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Post by Jeff Navarro Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:27 am

No name Bertie wrote:ps Very bad day for Alpha Tauri.  Seems the Gasly sprint race crash destroyed too much of his car and they were unable to get all the new parts working properly.  Gasly had qualified P6 for the sprint race but it went wrong for him in the sprint race.  Not sure what happened with Tsunoda.  
Tsunoda had a brake failure. They couldn't change the system in time.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:34 am

Just Gareth wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:For the incident at Silverstone (1st sprint race weekend) Hamilton got a five place grid penalty.  In that incident Verstappen crashed out while Hamilton was fine.

What is it about these sprint race weekends?  Next one is in Brazil (12 Nov - 14 Nov).

He didn’t get a five place grid penalty, he got a 10-second time penalty during the race.
....
I now realize I mixed this up with Bottas' penalty for wiping out the Red Bulls and Lando Norris at Hungary. OK

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Post by McLaren Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:14 pm

Went back and had a look at Hamilton overtaking Kimi out of turn 1 and into turn 2 in 2018 and thought the difference between that move and Max's was quite interesting.

I have taken a screen grab from each incident at the point the cars pass a orange bit of tarmac on the inside of turn 1.


Here is Hamilton passing Kimi in 2018
F1 2021 Season - Page 13 Kimiha10


And here is Max trying to pass Hamilton this year.
F1 2021 Season - Page 13 Hamver10

You can see that Hamilton has got at least a metre or so of his car past Kimi while max is only just half way along Hamilton's car.  Again, maybe Max could demand Hamilton yield in some interpretation of the rules but if you compare these moves it is clear that Max just wasn't in a position to carry out an overtake safely.  Even if that were not an incredibly tight corner at the end of a chicane he would be coming from quite far back.


Full videos (Where you can also see how the cars line up in the braking zone for turn 1)

Ham/Kimi


Max/Ham
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Post by GSC Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:01 pm

I thought any part of the car alongside means you have to leave room 🤔
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Post by No name Bertie Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:09 pm

The race stewards analyzed it using all the data, telemetry, video angles they could muster and determined that Verstappen was at fault.  I am happy to go along with that.   At Silverstone they determined that Hamilton was at fault - again I am happy to go along with that.

Given the outcome maybe Hamilton is better at these things than Verstappen given Hamilton was able to continue.   That aside - these were both potentially extremely serious collisions in terms of potential for bodily harm.

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Post by Jeff Navarro Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:58 pm

I don’t really think the Raikkonen-Hamilton move and the Verstappen-Hamilton crash are really similar.

Hamilton and Raikkonen both at full speed, Hamilton had the slipstream/DRS so it was in a sense an easier move as Raikkonen was pretty much defenceless.

Verstappen and Hamilton is an entirely different situation. As Hamilton was never at full speed as he exited the pit lane and obviously that’s close in proximity to T1.
Verstappen was at absolute full speed - DRS and slipstream.
So the closing speed was massive which is why the both ended up in the same piece of track.

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Post by Jeff Navarro Yesterday at 9:51 am

Aston Martin has finally confirmed Vettel and Stroll Jr for 2022.

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Post by dyrewolfe Yesterday at 6:39 pm

GSC wrote:I thought any part of the car alongside means you have to leave room 🤔

My understanding was that the other driver has to be far enough alongside to have a reasonable chance of overtaking. But my knowledge isn't great on this.

In any case, someone needs to tell Max that. He can't squeeze other drivers off the track and then complain when they do the same to him.

I have a feeling Hamilton would have left more room, but was giving Max a taste of his own medicine. Possibly also decided to put the squeeze on due to being his title rival.
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Post by dyrewolfe Yesterday at 6:41 pm

No name Bertie wrote:The race stewards analyzed it using all the data, telemetry, video angles they could muster and determined that Verstappen was at fault.  I am happy to go along with that.   At Silverstone they determined that Hamilton was at fault - again I am happy to go along with that.

Given the outcome maybe Hamilton is better at these things than Verstappen given Hamilton was able to continue.   That aside - these were both potentially extremely serious collisions in terms of potential for bodily harm.

I almost had to look away when I saw the rear wheel on Verstappen's car spinning so close to Hamilton's head. That was seriously scary.
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Post by GSC Yesterday at 7:23 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GSC wrote:I thought any part of the car alongside means you have to leave room 🤔

My understanding was that the other driver has to be far enough alongside to have a reasonable chance of overtaking. But my knowledge isn't great on this.

In any case, someone needs to tell Max that. He can't squeeze other drivers off the track and then complain when they do the same to him.

I have a feeling Hamilton would have left more room, but was giving Max a taste of his own medicine. Possibly also decided to put the squeeze on due to being his title rival.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so predictable
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