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PGATour Running Commentary - Aug 2020

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Post by McLaren on Thu 03 Dec 2020, 8:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

GPB

Either that or the players are just really good. Wink
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Post by JAS on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 11:34 am

GPB wrote:LadyPutt

If spectacular vistas and animals are what you want in a golf course, I hope you are watching the Sentry Tournament of Champions on the PGATour this week.

Huge elevation changes, breaching humpback whales, dolphin pods

The Plantation Course at Kapalua is definite eye-candy.

It's funny, getting on for 10 years now since I played it (If I remember right I had 4 rounds on it over 3 days) and in my head it keeps getting further and further up my list of Top Courses played, I don't know whether it's the annual reminder given by this event or what. The sign of a great and memorable course is that a decade on from playing it only 4 times I can remember every hole like I'd played it a few weeks ago.

Certainly is a very special place, incredible vistas and the golf is just a completely different type of challenge, The fairways are wide but miss them by much in a lot of places it's just tropical jungle, the elevation changes tee to green are incredible. Club selection is just different...really different. Then on the greens...they're big, big undulations too, then there's the Bermuda grain and the pull of the Ocean. Surprised BdC makes it round in less than 8 hours with all the factors he has to consider on club selection and on putting.

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Post by Shotrock on Fri 08 Jan 2021, 4:52 pm

Lucky man JAS. Hawaii is outrageously beautiful. I spent 10 days (years ago) camping in Kauai and then kayaked the Napali Coast. It looked like something I would envision in middle earth! On my next trip there I will golf for sure.

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Post by LadyPutt on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 11:12 am

GPB wrote:LadyPutt

If spectacular vistas and animals are what you want in a golf course, I hope you are watching the Sentry Tournament of Champions on the PGATour this week.

Huge elevation changes, breaching humpback whales, dolphin pods

The Plantation Course at Kapalua is definite eye-candy.
Sorry, a couple of whales and a few dolphins don’t cut it for me as much as elephants, rhinos, hippos, waterbuck, warthogs, lions, leopards and impala. Not to mention the bird life! Best part of Kapalua are the spectacular gardens beside one of the fairways.

On another subject, anyone getting fed up with Sky and their commentators (Rob Lee in this case) continually apologising for the occasional expletive uttered by frustrated golfers, as we all do sometimes? Interestingly, the American commentators never seem to pass comment. And I missed what Justin Thomas was supposed to have said for his alleged “homophobic slur” which I presume was directed at himself and not someone else. I can hazard a guess and I admit to saying the same to LordPutt on occasions when he misses a short putt. laughing
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Post by Davie on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 11:56 am

I think it was a word that we sometimes use in the UK for a type of meatball

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Post by pedro on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 12:04 pm

Davie wrote:I think it was a word that we sometimes use in the UK for a type of meatball
Maybe he was hungry after a long day out?

His mea culpa was a bit ott though. He almost self flagellates.

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Post by LadyPutt on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 12:28 pm

Davie wrote:I think it was a word that we sometimes use in the UK for a type of meatball
That’s what I thought! Why is it offensive if it’s not directed at someone else? Aren’t we getting a bit too precious?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 2:15 pm

pedro wrote:
Davie wrote:I think it was a word that we sometimes use in the UK for a type of meatball
Maybe he was hungry after a long day out?

His mea culpa was a bit ott though. He almost self flagellates.
That's what one has to do these days. Got to satisfy the glass house, stone throwing, morally righteous out there.
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Post by beninho on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 2:53 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
GPB wrote:LadyPutt

If spectacular vistas and animals are what you want in a golf course, I hope you are watching the Sentry Tournament of Champions on the PGATour this week.

Huge elevation changes, breaching humpback whales, dolphin pods

The Plantation Course at Kapalua is definite eye-candy.
Sorry, a couple of whales and a few dolphins don’t cut it for me as much as elephants, rhinos, hippos, waterbuck, warthogs, lions, leopards and impala. Not to mention the bird life! Best part of Kapalua are the spectacular gardens beside one of the fairways.

On another subject, anyone getting fed up with Sky and their commentators (Rob Lee in this case) continually apologising for the occasional expletive uttered by frustrated golfers, as we all do sometimes? Interestingly, the American commentators never seem to pass comment. And I missed what Justin Thomas was supposed to have said for his alleged “homophobic slur” which I presume was directed at himself and not someone else. I can hazard a guess and I admit to saying the same to LordPutt on occasions when he misses a short putt. laughing

What they've said in football is they are contractually obliged to apologise.

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Post by beninho on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 2:58 pm

Depends where your line is on what casual racist or homophobic words should be said.

I dont have much of an issue but I also think its not a great look. Would you all be fine if he dropped the n word?

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Post by LadyPutt on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 3:14 pm

beninho wrote:Depends where your line is on what casual racist or homophobic words should be said.

I dont have much of an issue but I also think its not a great look.  Would you all be fine if he dropped the n word?
Wouldn’t bother me, TBH, but I probably come from a different generation. One if my favourite toys was my Gollywog Shocked and I never got upset when my West Indian friends called me Honky Rolling Eyes
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Post by beninho on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 4:14 pm

I'm not remotely bothered, but I can see why sone people will be. I don't think its just a stop being precious thing either.

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Post by TM2K on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 6:39 pm

I’d be surprised if anyone could be truly offended or upset by it, however inappropriate and outdated that kind of phrase is in the current climate....or is it just a consequence of modern times where the permanently offending are circling in wait for the slightest indiscretion to attach their bandwagon to and blow out of all proportion?? Would that many people even have picked it up and what percentage of those that did genuinely found it offensive. More than anything I think it made him sound like an immature, childish brat who’s only just learnt to curse!!

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Post by TM2K on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 6:59 pm

Reminds me of Reginald D Hunter laughing at some of the old racist names that he might’ve had been subjected to over here in years gone by... and how he’d have struggled not to laugh at one (that I won’t risk typing!) in particular as it sounded like something you’d drink at Christmas

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Post by GPB on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 7:22 pm

Lady Putt

Some people like Vanilla Ice Cream, others like Chocolate. Me? I am partial to Pistachio!

No issue with what you like to see, but the general commentary at the time was that US PGATour courses were drab and boring with no surrounding wildlife.

US PGATour has plenty of interesting and varied golf courses. And this week is one of them. I find whales and dolphins just as interesting in African Wildlife which in fairness only happens at one (possibly two) EuroTour event. And I doubt you can see the Rhinos, Hippos etc too often from the golf course, probably only visible for the overhead cranes for the cameras.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 7:23 pm

Rumours around the 2022 PGA Championship being moved. Its scheduled for the Trump course at Bedminster New Jersey. PGA of America just waiting for Trump to be out if office apparently.

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Post by McLaren on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 8:23 pm

On JT, isn't it a positive that he was so apologetic. I think he got why that word can be so offensive. It really seemed like he wished he hadn't said it (due to it being homophobic and potentially damaging to gay people) rather than pressure from sponsors or the tour.

The commentators just glossing over it like they did is possibly the most disappointing aspect of the incident.
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Post by TM2K on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 8:35 pm

GPB wrote:Lady Putt

Some people like Vanilla Ice Cream, others like Chocolate. Me? I am partial to Pistachio!

No issue with what you like to see, but the general commentary at the time was that US PGATour courses were drab and boring with no surrounding wildlife.

US PGATour has plenty of interesting and varied golf courses. And this week is one of them. I find whales and dolphins just as interesting in African Wildlife which in fairness only happens at one (possibly two) EuroTour event. And I doubt you can see the Rhinos, Hippos etc too often from the golf course, probably only visible for the overhead cranes for the cameras.

You actually see that sort of game pretty much every time you play as the course runs alongside crocodile river where those animals often congregate to drink and cool off from the relentless heat. Hippos, rhinos, elephants, crocodiles and giraffes are always around and the sound of the hippos from the river behind the clubhouse while you’re enjoying a post round drink incredibly rare to finish one before you heard them.
In fact the first time playing there we had two giraffes follow us for a couple of holes and I’ve got pictures of me hitting shots with them behind!

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Post by TM2K on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 9:07 pm

Not that I’m saying the courses in Hawaii aren’t equally spectacular and it’s definitely high up the list of places I want to play if we’re ever allowed to travel again!!

Actually got discussed this week on our group chat as tying it in with Bandon Dunes as a west coast tour.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 9:47 pm

beninho wrote:
LadyPutt wrote:
GPB wrote:LadyPutt

If spectacular vistas and animals are what you want in a golf course, I hope you are watching the Sentry Tournament of Champions on the PGATour this week.

Huge elevation changes, breaching humpback whales, dolphin pods

The Plantation Course at Kapalua is definite eye-candy.
Sorry, a couple of whales and a few dolphins don’t cut it for me as much as elephants, rhinos, hippos, waterbuck, warthogs, lions, leopards and impala. Not to mention the bird life! Best part of Kapalua are the spectacular gardens beside one of the fairways.

On another subject, anyone getting fed up with Sky and their commentators (Rob Lee in this case) continually apologising for the occasional expletive uttered by frustrated golfers, as we all do sometimes? Interestingly, the American commentators never seem to pass comment. And I missed what Justin Thomas was supposed to have said for his alleged “homophobic slur” which I presume was directed at himself and not someone else. I can hazard a guess and I admit to saying the same to LordPutt on occasions when he misses a short putt. laughing

What they've said in football is they are contractually obliged to apologise.
Which is really, really ****ing annoying. They even do it w/ the rugby. Seriously?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 10 Jan 2021, 9:58 pm

McLaren wrote:On JT, isn't it a positive that he was so apologetic. I think he got why that word can be so offensive. It really seemed like he wished he hadn't said it  (due to it being homophobic and potentially damaging to gay people) rather than pressure from sponsors or the tour.

The commentators just glossing over it like they did is possibly the most disappointing aspect of the incident.
Agreed. I think it also illustrates that many people say things that could be considered inappropriate at times in 'the heat of the moment'. Does that reflect who they really are? No, not in most many/most cases. There's a certain rush in saying something that's 'bad', whether it be f**k or a racial epithet. It doesn't always give an accurate picture of the individual who says it. Time will get rid of the racial (and other discriminatory) comments, but it isn't going to happen overnight.
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Post by McLaren on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 11:53 am

"Trump National stripped of 2022 US PGA Championship"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/55615022
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Post by McLaren on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 11:56 am

Obviously the correct decision. But not a lot of time to pick a replacement.

What courses do people think will be in the running to step in?
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Post by Shotrock on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 12:39 pm

Mac - I hear Southern Hills is high on the list. Makes sense to me since a Spring event would be more pleasant (generally speaking) than the old mid Summer date. Another person suggested they will move quickly to where they can make the most $ ... so possibly Liberty National.

And I do wonder what sort of pressure was exerted where to make this decision. At the risk of over generalization, that's a pretty red-thinking group, so just how much sponsor objection (or fear of forthcoming) played into this?

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Post by McLaren on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 3:09 pm

From the bbc article

"It has become clear that conducting the PGA Championship at Trump Bedminster would be detrimental to the PGA of America brand and would put at risk the PGA's ability to deliver our many programmes and sustain the longevity of our mission," said PGA of America President Jim Richerson.


Does sound more like a commercial issue (and sponsor pressure as shotrock mentioned) than the PGAofA having a philosophical issue with Trump.
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Post by McLaren on Mon 11 Jan 2021, 3:48 pm

R&A confirming they will not visit Trump Turnberry anytime soon.

“We had no plans to stage any of our championships at Turnberry and will not do so in the foreseeable future. We will not return until we are convinced that the focus will be on the championship, the players and the course itself and we do not believe that is achievable in the current circumstances.”

Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A

https://www.randa.org/News/2021/01/Turnberry-Statement
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Post by I'm never wrong on Tue 12 Jan 2021, 7:33 pm

Spectators Patrons at the Masters? Click Here

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Post by McLaren on Tue 12 Jan 2021, 9:27 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Spectators Patrons at the Masters? Click Here

Unless they are inviting patrons in very limited numbers I don't understand why they are even contemplating having fans. Given how bad the situation is in the US and that hopefully biden can introduce some stricter restrictions to help alleviate the situation.
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Post by pedro on Thu 14 Jan 2021, 12:22 am

By that time 50m+ americans will have had the vaccine. I’m sure they could let those in who have been vaccinated.

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Post by pedro on Thu 14 Jan 2021, 12:31 am

McLaren wrote:R&A confirming they will not visit Trump Turnberry anytime soon.

“We had no plans to stage any of our championships at Turnberry and will not do so in the foreseeable future. We will not return until we are convinced that the focus will be on the championship, the players and the course itself and we do not believe that is achievable in the current circumstances.”

Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A

https://www.randa.org/News/2021/01/Turnberry-Statement
It’s a sensible wording. But afaik Open venues for the next many years have already been set, so maybe the comment is a bit unneccessary, or even polemic. Hypocritcal for sure given their (lack of) stance on men-only clubs.

Regardless, it’s a shame. I like Turnberry. And the last Open hosted there was one of the best in recent memory.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Jan 2021, 2:16 pm

I think they have venues selected up to 2024. So they had probably already decided that Trump wasn't going to be on the menu.

It is a shame that Turnberry (the course) misses out but at this point I don't think the R&A or anyone else should be validating anything to do with Trump.

Not sure the R&A sunk to the depths that Trump did so despite them not being the most enlightened organization to call them hypocritical over this would be harsh.
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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Jan 2021, 2:51 pm

Gary Player. What a guy.

https://twitter.com/GolfChannel/status/1349725275777601538?s=20
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Post by Shotrock on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 1:29 pm

Well this is kinda sad: https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/30714498/angel-cabrera-2009-masters-winner-arrested-brazil

Also, this fall Gary Player told me I had a great follow through as I was hitting balls on the range. That and $3 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks!

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 1:50 pm

Shotrock wrote:Well this is kinda sad: https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/30714498/angel-cabrera-2009-masters-winner-arrested-brazil ....
Didn't he used to make some sort living in his youth fighting bareknuckle in street fights? Anyway, shame.
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Post by McLaren on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 2:09 pm

"Argentine media reported earlier in January that Cabrera's former wife, Silvia Rivadero, had filed two charges against the golfer. The reports also said that Cecilia Torres, another former partner, claimed Cabrera had punched her, threatened her and attempted to run her over with his car in 2016."

Nice guy.

Cabrera taking a leaf out of Seve's book.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 4:30 pm

McLaren wrote:"Argentine media reported earlier in January that Cabrera's former wife, Silvia Rivadero, had filed two charges against the golfer. The reports also said that Cecilia Torres, another former partner, claimed Cabrera had punched her, threatened her and attempted to run her over with his car in 2016."

Nice guy.

Cabrera taking a leaf out of Seve's book.
If you take it at face value. Argentine media have that much probity do they? Let's not hang him just yet, eh?
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Post by McLaren on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 5:23 pm

From the ESPN article

"Officials in Argentina have charged the suspect with assault, theft, illegal intimidation and repeated disrespect to authorities"

I don't know that much about the Argentina/Brazil extradition process but it seems like he has been handed over by the Brazilians based on some pretty serious charges, and arrested on the orders of "Brazil's top court".

He is surely in more than a spot of bother?
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Post by McLaren on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 8:02 pm

WGC Mexico is now WGC Florida.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/wgc-mexico-championship-florida-2021?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=golfdigest

Moves to The Concession G.C.

If it's close enough to Mar a Lago Trump could pop round for a look.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 10:12 pm

McLaren wrote:From the ESPN article

"Officials in Argentina have charged the suspect with assault, theft, illegal intimidation and repeated disrespect to authorities"

I don't know that much about the Argentina/Brazil extradition process but it seems like he has been handed over by the Brazilians based on some pretty serious charges, and arrested on the orders of "Brazil's top court".

He is surely in more than a spot of bother?
Sounds like it. Pity.
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Post by Shotrock on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 10:16 pm

Never played Concession but have only heard good things about it.

Really a shame for Cabrera. A true "feel" player who, when he got it going, was top notch.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 15 Jan 2021, 11:17 pm

I just realised I missed using a Trump "concession" (or lack of) joke. Oh well.

Isn't the name something to do with Jack or someone else making a concession? Maybe that ryder cup one?
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Post by JAS on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 10:35 am

Thomas dropped by Ralph Lauren. Oh the irony of a company that exploits child labour in developing countries to make shirts for a few pence to sell to idiots like us for £60+ quid taking the high moral ground on ANYTHING!!!

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 1:19 pm

JAS wrote:Thomas dropped by Ralph Lauren. Oh the irony of a company that exploits child labour in developing countries to make shirts for a few pence to sell to idiots like us for £60+ quid taking the high moral ground on ANYTHING!!!
Ah yes, but that's not front and centre of golf news just now, is it? Got to be seen as if you're doing the right thing.
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Post by beninho on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 1:58 pm

He was always going to be dropped. Though, he will be back with them. Some rainbow flags, a charity hook up. Still surprised with the he did nothing wrong brigade. This is pretty interesting.

https://twitter.com/jamiesoncox/status/1348618538542641152?s=19

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 2:15 pm

beninho wrote:He was always going to be dropped. Though, he will be back with them. Some rainbow flags, a charity hook up. Still surprised with the he did nothing wrong brigade.   This is pretty interesting.

https://twitter.com/jamiesoncox/status/1348618538542641152?s=19
So, you're one of those who thinks someone's career should be ruined, actively, as some sort of punishment for this? You're one of those who thinks that it's one strike and out? No chance to learn, when everyone knows one learns more from mistakes than anything else? He's human and, unlike so many, not perfect.

FWIW, I didn't say that he did nothing wrong. I do think that the righteous indignation of the morally correct at a dropped word like that is close to pathetic. Yes, it's worth mentioning, but what those people want is for Thomas's career to be destroyed and for him to self-flagellate in public as sign of atonement.

Who hasn't said something bad at an unguarded moment? Part of cursing is to say something racy, even if one knows it's wrong if analysed in more rational moments. Who in the morally righteous brigade ever acknowledge that someone's words might have a reflection on their age (and therefore when they were children/adolescents) etc?

He said something inappropriate, but I suggest his immediate reaction was indicative of the fact he knows it was wrong, rather than that reaction being simply window dressing for the media.

Suggest those microphones are going to be gone, pretty quickly.
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Post by beninho on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 2:24 pm

1 - no. And I doubt it will. Is Patrick Reeds career ruined?
2- depends on the situation.
3- he will learn.

Mics shouldn't be gone. People should think more. Dropping homophobic words isn't something to easily brush off.

Don't think anyone wants his career ruined, apart from people who want to chance to blame others for wanting his career ruined.

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Post by beninho on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 2:26 pm

I'm slightly surprised why the morally correct is being deemed as a bad thing. Very strange.

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Post by Shotrock on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 3:47 pm

Dropping JT was a straight forward business decision. I can't imagine they would keep him after that recorded remark ... just waaay too much fuel for the RL competitors.

Now, was it justified? Absolutely (IMO) ... again, see the business reason which is the only reason sponsorships like this exist.

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Post by beninho on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 3:52 pm

Shotrock wrote:Dropping JT was a straight forward business decision. I can't imagine they would keep him after that recorded remark ... just waaay too much fuel for the RL competitors.

Now, was it justified? Absolutely (IMO) ... again, see the business reason which is the only reason sponsorships like this exist.

Yep.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 4:09 pm

beninho wrote:I'm slightly surprised why the morally correct is being deemed as a bad thing. Very strange.
It's not a problem in, and of, itself. The problem comes from the vocal and righteous indignation of people who're in no way perfect themselves.

Fortunately I'm not one, but if I was, say, an OWGR top 50 player, I wouldn't want some stupid spying microphone anywhere near me and I would make that very clear. Not because I think I'm racist/homophobic/sexist/whatever, but I could easily imagine saying something inappropriate in a heated moment, which is then used to metaphorically beat me with.

I think we're in agreement that Thomas said something that he shouldn't have. Moving on...
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Post by GPB on Sat 16 Jan 2021, 11:50 pm

It might be sponsorship suicide but if I were JT, I would ask the CEO of Ralph Lauren about their decisions to have factories in countries that have laws against homosexuality, such as Egypt, Bangladesh and Indonesia.

Disappointing to see Angel Cabrera run afoul with the law. Saw reports that he was on Interpol's Red Code List. But I have yet to see the Red Code List defined. How nefarious are the people on the Red Code list.

Is it Osama Bin Laden bad?
Pablo Escobar bad?
Auric Goldfinger bad?

Not to make light of the allegations against Cabrera, but his dalliances don't seem to reach the level "Super Villain". And "Red Code List" would suggest terrorists, mass murderers, etc.

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