PGATour Running Commentary - Aug 2020

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GPB

Either that or the players are just really good.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

GPB wrote:If you are Paddy, who are you picking as your Captain's picks for the Ryder Cup?  or on the short list

Rahm, Fleetwood, Hatton, Rory, Casey, Viktor, Westy, Fitzy, Perez are the qualifiers, as of June 26th,

Here are the Top 40 Standings

Euro RC Standings:

IMO, Poulter, Sergio and Rosey are on top of the short list, but their recent form has been less than stellar (Rosey is playing well this week, however).  I don't think Stenson has a chance for a pick at this time especially over those three players.

But if Frankie is not on the team, who is Tommy going to play with?  and will Paddy leave his countryman off the team and reigning Open Champion off the team?

I think Paddy would like for Shane to overtake Perez in the standings.

It’s still a way to go to see who is in form when picks are needed, but I’d be taking Lowry as a wildcard for sure and I don’t think Rose/Poulter should be locks to be picked if they don’t make it on points. Guys like Wiesberger, Migliozzi, McIntyre have been outperforming them and arguably the course suits them better too. Sergio you’d figure will be in, with the way he hits the ball

Oh the irony of Sergio needing a pick from Paddy!!. It would be a bold choice to leave out the combined experience of Poulter, Rose & Garcia, even Lowry. Let's see how the land lies after RSG though. Remember the last time the Open was there some old dude we all thought was past it came through & took the spoils.

A bit of a weak team for Europe this time around. Not sure it matters who he picks the Americans will hammer them.

Yes and no Mac.
The trouble with American teams is they always look strong on paper, but rarely perform, bit like the English football team

Would think Poulter is a shoe in as a pick JAS, I think Penguin Paddy has said as much.

Olly

You can't always look to the past. Sergio, Rose and Poulter are no longer elite players. Time to get in the likes of Fat Bob, Guido or Perez.

Poulter is in decent form, better than many other years when he has shone in the event.

Mickelson has ayed his way into the US team, which is of benefit to Europe because his record is so lamentable.

If the Americans don't win this year they might as well give up. I can't remember the quality of the teams being so uneven. And that doesn't mean it is the worst European team ever, although it looks poor, it's just the Americans are so deep this time around.

McLaren wrote:If the Americans don't win this year they might as well give up. I can't remember the quality of the teams being so uneven. And that doesn't mean it is the worst European team ever, although it looks poor, it's just the Americans are so deep this time around.

They always "look" deeper to much deeper though Mac, what specifically is different this time to say last time?

DJ, Morikawa, JT, BDC, Koepka, Xander and Spieth (if picked) are an unbelievably strong set of golfers. You then have guys like Reed and Berger who are only bettered by a two or three of the European team. It's just obvious, the Europeans should get crushed.

I think with the exception of Morikawa all of them were around last time. Just because the PGATour has massively more generous sponsors means that your average Yank earns far in excess of your average European…ergo the rankings are bloated at the top end by Americans. I’m not saying that  your average European journeyman is better than his higher earning US counterpart, I’m just saying it’s too easy to overestimate the yanks and underestimate the Europeans…as is done every time but the actually reality of Ryder Cup competition tells a bit of a different story than the world rankings.

How have they done in Ryder Cups Mac? Reed apart who is a really strong player?

Ten Wives Tony wasn't great last time, Spieth isn't.
Thomas is perhaps their matchplay star.

(I do expect America will win though this time)

Think it's more the course and setup which will be the major issue for the Europeans isn't it? Meant to be a bomb and gauge fest, which suits the US team far more than the Euro team

Plenty potential "bombers" on European team isn't there? Hovland, McIlroy, MacIntyre, Rahm, Hatton
Don't think many of the others are that short either.

Anyone looking for a job? Mac, you're a scientist, how about it? Bryson is looking for a new caddie.

JAS wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

It’s still a way to go to see who is in form when picks are needed, but I’d be taking Lowry as a wildcard for sure and I don’t think Rose/Poulter should be locks to be picked if they don’t make it on points. Guys like Wiesberger, Migliozzi, McIntyre have been outperforming them and arguably the course suits them better too. Sergio you’d figure will be in, with the way he hits the ball

Oh the irony of Sergio needing a pick from Paddy!!. It would be a bold choice to leave out the combined experience of Poulter, Rose & Garcia, even Lowry. Let's see how the land lies after RSG though. Remember the last time the Open was there some old dude we all thought was past it came through & took the spoils.

bold emphasis mine.

Only Two Europeans in the Top 10 after 36 holes, and I don't think either are even on Paddy's long list.

Great to see Seamus Power bag his 1st win on the PGA tour

GPB wrote:

JAS wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

It’s still a way to go to see who is in form when picks are needed, but I’d be taking Lowry as a wildcard for sure and I don’t think Rose/Poulter should be locks to be picked if they don’t make it on points. Guys like Wiesberger, Migliozzi, McIntyre have been outperforming them and arguably the course suits them better too. Sergio you’d figure will be in, with the way he hits the ball

Oh the irony of Sergio needing a pick from Paddy!!. It would be a bold choice to leave out the combined experience of Poulter, Rose & Garcia, even Lowry. Let's see how the land lies after RSG though. Remember the last time the Open was there some old dude we all thought was past it came through & took the spoils.

bold emphasis mine.

Only Two Europeans in the Top 10 after 36 holes, and I don't think either are even on Paddy's long list.

I see as it stands Lowry is just in as an automatic qualifier, albeit very tight with Perez still. Others currently auto qualifying are Rahm, Hatton, Fleetwood, Hovland, Casey, McIlroy, Fitzpatrick and Westwood

Bob MacIntyre making the cut on the number, then having a great weekend to top 10 has done his hopes no harm. I think Rose is in real danger of not being picked

You'd have to think Poulter is a shoe in.
At least one of Garcia, Rose and Stenson probably going to miss out, if not all three.

Europe do what Americans don't though, they pick players suited to the format, rather than form, reputation or how many Majors they have so I wouldn't be surprised to see a bit of an eyebrow raising name picked.

Poulter and Fat Bob looking most likely to get a Captains pick, but that does leave a left field choice for Penguin Paddy.
Perhaps someone like F Molinari might be worth a gamble given his Paris heroics.

As I said earlier in this thread. Europe are getting pasted.

US have the world numbers 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 10. And Reed and Spieth at 13 & 14.

14 of the OWGR top 20 are Americans and only 4 are European.

Super, they may as well pick you or me in the team because they aren't going to win.

Whilst I agree that they'll get beat, I don't think World Rankings have anything to do with it.
They always look the lesser team on paper. I dont think Paddy has it as an inspirational leader. Seems more like an oaf or a buffoon that someone influential.

Super

Both Paddy and Paul McGinley are just nuisances. Both of them just spout utter drivel. They have the air of the motivational speaker about them. And that is not to say the are motivational personanlities just that they talk shite.

Precisely what I mean.
McGinley had the benefit of a divided US Team and home advantage.

Harrington is away from home against a very good US collection of individuals (not sure they're a team) and comes across as a simpleton. Can't see it happening for Europe, just don't think World ranking matters

In the two PGA Championships at Whistling Straits, Poulter had a WD (2010) and a MC (2015). He did make the cut in 2010 but WDed after a 77 in Round 3 when he was DFL among those making the cut.

14 players made the cut in all 4 majors this year

282 287 278 269 1116 … Jon Rahm
289 284 279 269 1121 … Louis Oosthuizen
287 287 282 265 1121 … Collin Morikawa
281 290 286 267 1124 … Jordan Spieth
287 287 283 273 1130 … Scottie Scheffler
289 286 283 275 1133 … Paul Casey
286 293 289 273 1141 … Robert MacIntyre
288 286 297 274 1145 … Shane Lowry
288 296 281 280 1145 … Harris English
289 290 290 277 1146 … Ian Poulter
290 289 293 277 1149 … Matt Fitzpatrick
293 291 287 278 1149 … Bryson DeChambeau
292 290 288 281 1151 … Christiaan Bezuidenhout
292 290 288 282 1152 … Joaquin Niemann


In 2007, just 7 players made the cut in all four majors, and oddly enough Poulter and Casey were two of them, along with Tiger, Rose, Fasth, Westwood, and Scott Verplank

Interesting, but not sure I understand why you dug that out.

2007 is the earliest year where I could easily mine scores.

GPB who do you think on the outside of the US Team, will be picked? I'm assuming Spieth and Reed even if they don't qualify automatically, will be picks automatically basically, so 4 spots available?

Definitely Spieth, and I think he would pair well with DeChambeau

Reed? Far from a lock IMO.  I think Stricker will rely heavily on the opinion of the automatic qualifiers.  He is not a long hitter and WS will be set up for bombers.

If Reed is picked then I think Cantlay will be definitely be picked.  Cantlay IMO, has the best chance (next to Spieth) to be picked at this time but picking Reed makes it more of a lock. He and Reed previously played in the Zurich team event

Finau is probable. He was the one American bright spot in Paris three years ago.  And a bomber.

Sigh, Mickelson, Sigh.  Probable.  

Harris English?  next best chance.  He and Reed would NOT be paired.  Former college teammates at Univ of Georgia

That leaves one more.  Webb Simpson if Stricker wants experience.  And he seems to get paired with the "problem childs" like Reed and Bubba in past Ryder and Prez Cups.

Unless he shows a lot of form in the next few weeks I don't think Berger gets picked.  But I would pick him over Mickelson.  He would pair well with any of the young guys (or Koepka).  I like his tenacity.

I would also like to see Zalatoris on the team.   

I would pick Spieth, Reed, Cantlay, Berger, Finau, and Zalatoris.

You wouldn't pick 9 Fibulas?

super_realist wrote:You wouldn't pick 9 Fibulas?

Sigh


More puerility

GPB wrote:Definitely Spieth, and I think he would pair well with DeChambeau

Reed? Far from a lock IMO.  I think Stricker will rely heavily on the opinion of the automatic qualifiers.  He is not a long hitter and WS will be set up for bombers.

If Reed is picked then I think Cantlay will be definitely be picked.  Cantlay IMO, has the best chance (next to Spieth) to be picked at this time but picking Reed makes it more of a lock. He and Reed previously played in the Zurich team event

Finau is probable. He was the one American bright spot in Paris three years ago.  And a bomber.

Sigh, Mickelson, Sigh.  Probable.  

Harris English?  next best chance.  He and Reed would NOT be paired.  Former college teammates at Univ of Georgia

That leaves one more.  Webb Simpson if Stricker wants experience.  And he seems to get paired with the "problem childs" like Reed and Bubba in past Ryder and Prez Cups.

Unless he shows a lot of form in the next few weeks I don't think Berger gets picked.  But I would pick him over Mickelson.  He would pair well with any of the young guys (or Koepka).  I like his tenacity.

I would also like to see Zalatoris on the team.   

I would pick Spieth, Reed, Cantlay, Berger, Finau, and Zalatoris.

I have a similar reaction to you on Mickelson - not sure lightning in a bottle can be captured twice like he managed at the PGA

Scheffler is playing well, he’d have a shot too you’d think? Especially if he can turn a good finish into a win in the next month or two

Scheffler? Yeah, I guess. Something about him that I just don't like for some reason. Not much of a personality.

But I am all for new blood. I really don't "Lifetime Achievement" Picks. So Scheffler would rank above Mickelson and Simpson on my short list at this time.

It’s hard to look past Reed. And apart for someone to pair him with they also need someone who actually bothers to talk to him in the dresding room. The same goes for BdC.

For that reason I think Finau should get a pick (plus of course he’s a bomber).

Webb is another good shout as he can pair with most.

Don’t neccesarily think Spieth would pair with BdC as he would probably have his say and opt to play with JT, as they did last time around.

Pretty sure Bubba is out. And for the sake of his dignity I hope Phil rules himself out as a player and volunteers as a VC. But there’ll undoubtedly be some media and fan pressure to pick Phil.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

GPB wrote:Definitely Spieth, and I think he would pair well with DeChambeau

Reed? Far from a lock IMO.  I think Stricker will rely heavily on the opinion of the automatic qualifiers.  He is not a long hitter and WS will be set up for bombers.

If Reed is picked then I think Cantlay will be definitely be picked.  Cantlay IMO, has the best chance (next to Spieth) to be picked at this time but picking Reed makes it more of a lock. He and Reed previously played in the Zurich team event

Finau is probable. He was the one American bright spot in Paris three years ago.  And a bomber.

Sigh, Mickelson, Sigh.  Probable.  

Harris English?  next best chance.  He and Reed would NOT be paired.  Former college teammates at Univ of Georgia

That leaves one more.  Webb Simpson if Stricker wants experience.  And he seems to get paired with the "problem childs" like Reed and Bubba in past Ryder and Prez Cups.

Unless he shows a lot of form in the next few weeks I don't think Berger gets picked.  But I would pick him over Mickelson.  He would pair well with any of the young guys (or Koepka).  I like his tenacity.

I would also like to see Zalatoris on the team.   

I would pick Spieth, Reed, Cantlay, Berger, Finau, and Zalatoris.

I have a similar reaction to you on Mickelson - not sure lightning in a bottle can be captured twice like he managed at the PGA

Scheffler is playing well, he’d have a shot too you’d think? Especially if he can turn a good finish into a win in the next month or two

Statistically Mickelson and Botox Woods have the worst losing record in US V Europe history for players with 3 or more appearances.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

GPB wrote:Definitely Spieth, and I think he would pair well with DeChambeau

Reed? Far from a lock IMO.  I think Stricker will rely heavily on the opinion of the automatic qualifiers.  He is not a long hitter and WS will be set up for bombers.

If Reed is picked then I think Cantlay will be definitely be picked.  Cantlay IMO, has the best chance (next to Spieth) to be picked at this time but picking Reed makes it more of a lock. He and Reed previously played in the Zurich team event

Finau is probable. He was the one American bright spot in Paris three years ago.  And a bomber.

Sigh, Mickelson, Sigh.  Probable.  

Harris English?  next best chance.  He and Reed would NOT be paired.  Former college teammates at Univ of Georgia

That leaves one more.  Webb Simpson if Stricker wants experience.  And he seems to get paired with the "problem childs" like Reed and Bubba in past Ryder and Prez Cups.

Unless he shows a lot of form in the next few weeks I don't think Berger gets picked.  But I would pick him over Mickelson.  He would pair well with any of the young guys (or Koepka).  I like his tenacity.

I would also like to see Zalatoris on the team.   

I would pick Spieth, Reed, Cantlay, Berger, Finau, and Zalatoris.

I have a similar reaction to you on Mickelson - not sure lightning in a bottle can be captured twice like he managed at the PGA

Scheffler is playing well, he’d have a shot too you’d think? Especially if he can turn a good finish into a win in the next month or two

Reed is a good matchplay golfer and alongside Thomas was one of the few who shone in Ryder Cup for the Septics.
Americans need to realise you pick according to format and who plays well in that format, not who sells Pay per view tickets or which players name fits.

super_realist wrote:

Statistically Mickelson and Botox Woods have the worst losing record in US V Europe history for players with 3 or more appearances.

Well that is pulling something out of your backside without doing any actual research

Mickelson's record is 18-20-7.  Not great, but not horrific either.

Wood's record 13-17-3.  A little worse but he is 4-1-2 in Singles.

Have you heard of Jim Furyk?  He is 10-20-4

Have you heard of Bubba Watson?  He is 3-8-0

And that is only recent history.

How about Curtis Strange 6-12-2.  Crenshaw at 3-8-1 Fred Couples at 7-9-4

And FWIW, Harrington's individual record is 9-13-4, Torrnance 7-15-6

It should be obvious why the US Team Captain should not put a lot of stock at previous Ryder Cup records when eIvaluating possible picks.
 In case you haven't realized it, but the US Team has not fared too well in recent cups.  If you think about it, it stands to reason that individuals haven't done that well in those events either.

Stricker has the choice of players with limited or no RC experience (English, Cantlay, Scheffler, Finau) , or players with poor RC records (Mickelson, Bubba, Webb) or player that has reputation of being loose and fast with the rules of golf (Reed) and probable distraction,

Not sure why you keep obsessing about Woods and your need to make puerile and shallow comments about him. He will not be on this Ryder Cup team. He is not being considered.

If going by Ryder Cup records, Stricker should look at Lanny Wadkins (20-11-3) and Jack Nicklaus (17-8-3) for Captains picks

and maybe Paddy should be looking at Monty, and Langer, and Faldo.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Statistically Mickelson and Botox Woods have the worst losing record in US V Europe history for players with 3 or more appearances.

Well that is pulling something out of your backside without doing any actual research

Mickelson's record is 18-20-7.  Not great, but not horrific either.

Wood's record 13-17-3.  A little worse but he is 4-1-2 in Singles.

Have you heard of Jim Furyk?  He is 10-20-4

Have you heard of Bubba Watson?  He is 3-8-0

And that is only recent history.

How about Curtis Strange 6-12-2.  Crenshaw at 3-8-1 Fred Couples at 7-9-4

And FWIW, Harrington's individual record is 9-13-4, Torrnance 7-15-6

It should be obvious why the US Team Captain should not put a lot of stock at previous Ryder Cup records when eIvaluating possible picks.
 In case you haven't realized it, but the US Team has not fared too well in recent cups.  If you think about it, it stands to reason that individuals haven't done that well in those events either.

Stricker has the choice of players with limited or no RC experience (English, Cantlay, Scheffler, Finau) , or players with poor RC records (Mickelson, Bubba, Webb) or player that has reputation of being loose and fast with the rules of golf (Reed) and probable distraction,

Not sure why you keep obsessing about Woods and your need to make puerile and shallow comments about him.  He will not be on this Ryder Cup team.  He is not being considered.

My point is that America don't seem to understand this is a different format, and picking square legs into round holes due to their name or reputation doesn't win you matches. Picking players on what increases the number of viewers (like Woods and Mickelson) doesn't get you wins, it gets you beaten.

People scoffed at Garcia being picked last time, only for him to become the "most winningest" (as you'd probably say) player of all time in European Ryder Cup team, maybe in the competition as a whole.

You pick for the event and the format, not because of who they are, and America are guilty of that.

Really, that was the point??? I don't think so.

I repeat what you posted.

Super_Realist wrote:Statistically Mickelson and Botox Woods have the worst losing record in US V Europe history for players with 3 or more appearances.

IMO, all you wanted to do is make a point about Mickelson and Woods Ryder Cup record, which is really not that bad considering how US has performed over the last 20+ years, And you wanted to repeat something that you have posted dozens of times over the last few years


And I'll repeat what said about the choices that Stricker has.

1. Picking players with little or no experience in the Ryder Cup
2. Picking players with less than stellar Ryder Cup Records
3. Picking a player that will be a pariah. Reed has done nothing to shed his reputation of being cavalier with the rules (since the last Ryder Cup)

There is no Jack Nicklaus, or Billy Casper or Lanny Wadkins etc hiding in the bushes just waiting for Stricker to pick him.

Super

I am curious, based on regular tour play how do you assess whether or not a player will make a good ryder cupper? After all there is no foursomes or fourball to judge it on.

That's not my problem Mac is it? But isn't it interesting that Europe seem to find a way to pick players adept at this format whilst America pick you according to how big a name you are and regardless of how hilariously bad your previous record is.

BREAKING NEWS: Bryon tested positive for covid and will not be going to the Olympics.

Edit: Jon Rahm also tested positive, for the 2nd time in as many months.. how is that even possible?!

The PGA Tours "favourite" player explains what's been happening. Alcoholism.. Seems he reached out to the Tour and they haven't helped him....yet

Not sure why he is blaming golf or the tour for being a dipso.
No one is forcing him to be a pro golfer, no one forced anything on him. No one is forcing him to remain on tour.

Just because he's on tour, doesn't mean that tour is responsible for his well being, just as it isn't responsible for how well you eat, how much exercise you do, what injuries may result from being on tour, or what you drink.

Grayson, instead of being such an arse should sort himself out, rather than seek to place some of the blame on the PGA tour. Its not their fault he's drunk, but being a drunk doesn't mean you get special treatment from their rules, and if you can't be drunk in public according to their rules, then it doesn't matter if you're just out on a bender or are a chronic drunk.

Nothing this moron said has helped his situation and his self pitying stance doesn't endear him to anyone.
At least he admits he's a drunk, now accept some responsibility for that and don't try and make the PGA shoulder some of the responsibility.

Maybe it's not their fault Super, but when a person asks for help from an organisation as big as the PGA Tour, you'd think they would do more than say "We'll get back to you". I'm sure the Tour has procedures in place to deal with this sort of thing as it can't be the first time. I know that the players are independent contractors - or whatever they are called - but I feel the Tour has some responsibility towards them. It's in their interest to do something. What about the Players Council? Are they doing anything?

Edit: What would you do Super if one of your work colleagues told you they were an alcoholic? I doubt if you would just tell them to get it sorted.

My parents always told me that you can't help people who won't help themselves.

I don't think it is the Tour responsibility to organize an intervention and make Grayson Murray check into into some Rehab facility. Its up to Grayson Murray to do that himself.

The Tour does bend over backwards to give players an opportunity to change their lives.

Chris Kirk is a recent "success" story in this regard

https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/golf/american-express-pga/2021/01/21/american-express-chris-kirks-path-back-alcoholism-pga-tour/6660047002/

Kirk place on the tour is secured through the end of next season as he is 45th in the FEX list,

I wonder if there is a word that describes a person who can tell you that you are doing things wrong, but unable to tell you how to do things right?

My vocabulary is failing me.

GPB wrote:I don't think it is the Tour responsibility to organize an intervention and make Grayson Murray check into into some Rehab facility.  Its up to Grayson Murray to do that himself.

But he reached out to them. In the absence of a normal "employer" I think the least they could to is have a meeting with him and suggest solutions. Then, I agree it's up to him.

Poor Louis has finished 2nd again, he'll be world #1 soon if he keeps going at this rate.

Super

To be honest I am never comfortable with the simple "alcoholism is a disease" narrative, I am sure people end up hooked on drink for many reasons. From crappy life circumstances to just being an ass.

But why wouldn't you want anyone in that situation to get some help? Unless they are a particularly awful person I wouldn't wish that life for anyone. Especially, if like Murray, they are pretty much crying out for help. After all it could happen to any of us so we might as well be on board with having support structures for those that do end up on the booze.

It's not that I don't want him to get help, it's his implication that if the PGA had helped him, he wouldn't have been drunk at a tournament.
It's the transferral of personal responsibility to someone else which seems endemic these days.

Graysson seems to be a moron regardless of being drunk or not.