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Rest of the World

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Jeff Navarro
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Duty281
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Post by Gooseberry Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
Duty281 wrote:So the most likely scenario is an Australia/New Zealand final at Lord's.

There are many things wrong with the WTC - points system is convulsed and perhaps not particularly fair - but Test cricket at neutral venues is something worth getting excited about! Shame it is only one game.

Yeah, I can't personally say that I am a fan of the WTC. The points system doesn't work properly, fixtures are of unequal value and weighting, and boiling an entire test championship down to one solitary fixture to decide the winner doesn't seem right to me.

That said, I think that Australia and New Zealand are the two best test teams in the world right now and, if that is the final, it would be the right fixture. A shame, as you say, that it's only one game and not, at least, a three-game series.

The current system is a temporary fudge to get around the unforseen situation and make the best of whatever fixtures could be fulfilled.

Had it gone to plan all the teams wouldve played home and away fixtures and had equal opportunities to earn points. That hasnt been the case, but at the same time I dont think anyone can argue theres not a clear top 3 teams with England sat just behind them and the rest of the world a significant step back from that.

One off game may be a bit unfair in that the toss could well play a major part in deciding it, but its always been about providing a focused big televised event rather than genuine competition. However the remaining fixtures pan out we should end up with two teams who deserve to be in the final even if New Zealand have just played at home. A long series in a neutral country just isn't viable in the modern calendar or that interesting to anything other than the hardcore fans.

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Post by VTR Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:19 am

That was a classic, but sadly in a series not getting much coverage it will likely be quickly forgotten rather than remembered as one of the great matches

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Post by AlciG Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:51 am

VTR wrote:That was a classic, but sadly in a series not getting much coverage it will likely be quickly forgotten rather than remembered as one of the great matches

I love that I can watch it on Windies Cricket youtube channel instead of having to pay to watch it.

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Post by JDizzle Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:00 am

Duty281 wrote:Wow, what a win for the West Indies. clap

Rarely seen an innings with more drama - good reviews and terrible reviews, horrific umpiring decisions and superb ones, spectacular catches and woeful drops...all finished off with a one-wicket win. Reckon the West Indies are usurping England as the most entertaining team in tests after quite a few close finishes.

Roach played the innings of his life. Pakistan will regret three/four (I think) dropped chances and the edge behind off Blackwood that they didn't appeal (he made about 28 more after that). Their captain should also regret the strange field placings for the tenth wicket stand. I regret I've still never seen a tied test.

That was the fifteenth one-wicket win in test history, the last before this being Headingley 2019, and the third for the West Indies.

Yes - I must admit I was hoping to see this too!

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Post by VTR Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:28 am

We might see one today?

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Post by Duty281 Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Pakistan in a bit of bother in the second test...2/3 after the West Indies put them into bat. Lot of Root-type pressure on Babar Azam to do something about it.

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Post by AlciG Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:46 pm

Duty281 wrote:Pakistan in a bit of bother in the second test...2/3 after the West Indies put them into bat. Lot of Root-type pressure on Babar Azam to do something about it.

Need to get one of these 2 out soon though.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:35 pm

Cricket went full cricket today. One ball before the tea break and the West Indian keeper goes down with cramp - sensible thing to do is obviously take the tea break slightly early, but that doesn't happen. Instead the game is effectively suspended for nearly ten minutes while the keeper is attended to, a substitution is made and everyone has a drink. Then the last ball is bowled. Then they're off for a twenty minute interval. Doh

Anyway, in actual cricket matters Babar Azam and Fawad Alam - beauty and the beast in terms of batting styles - combined to take Pakistan from 2/3 to 160/3 and in control of the test, though Fawad has just retired hurt due to cramp. Should be back out tomorrow.

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Post by AlciG Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:02 pm

Babar gone... big wicket

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Post by sirfredperry Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:24 pm

Yesterday's fourth-wicket stand must have been a real, gutsy affair given the mayhem that a 2 for 3 start can have in a dressing room.

Pity there's been no play so far today. Intriguing series.

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Post by AlciG Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:55 pm

Looks like rain is going to save the Windies

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Post by Duty281 Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:56 am

West Indies 39/3 in response to Pakistan's 302/9. Three days already played, will be tough for Pakistan to force a win from this position. Entire tour has been blighted by rain.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:48 pm

Maybe there is a chance for Pakistan - they bowled out the West Indies inside 3 hours today through the efforts of Shaheen and Abbas, now the Pakistani openers have been told it's a T20 and they've made 52/0 off the opening six overs.

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Post by AlciG Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:Maybe there is a chance for Pakistan - they bowled out the West Indies inside 3 hours today through the efforts of Shaheen and Abbas, now the Pakistani openers have been told it's a T20 and they've made 52/0 off the opening six overs.

Just go full T20 mode and if they get a big enough lead maybe even declare tonight and get a few overs at the WI openers

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Post by Duty281 Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:00 pm

Pakistan have offered fairly generous terms as they declare quite early.

West Indies have around 130 overs to chase 329, presuming rain/bad light doesn't interfere. Would think that's beyond them, but Bangladesh probably thought 395 was fairly safe as well.

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Post by AlciG Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:06 pm

What a terrible run out.

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Post by AlciG Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:14 pm

I really don't like the use of a night watchman

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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:21 am

Yes, it was a terrible run-out. Laziness from Powell. Ruins a perfect start for the West Indies, but it does mean it's brilliantly poised - West Indies need 280, Pakistan need 9 wickets, 98 overs to play. No rain forecast and all four results possible.

Might be an idea for Joseph to attack from the off tomorrow, if he grabs a quick 20-30 runs then Pakistan are on the back foot. If he's out cheaply, no real loss.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:21 am

Joseph is the type of nightwatchman who I can just about get on board with, if you're going to do it. He is very capable of an annoying 20-30 in the following morning, and usually gets them pretty quickly too.
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Post by AlciG Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:52 am

Duty281 wrote:Yes, it was a terrible run-out. Laziness from Powell. Ruins a perfect start for the West Indies, but it does mean it's brilliantly poised - West Indies need 280, Pakistan need 9 wickets, 98 overs to play. No rain forecast and all four results possible.

Might be an idea for Joseph to attack from the off tomorrow, if he grabs a quick 20-30 runs then Pakistan are on the back foot. If he's out cheaply, no real loss.

Yeah... Thanks to Pakistan for giving us the chance at a thrilling last day with that aggressive declaration. I thought they would have batted a bit longer and get another 30-40 runs on the board before having a few overs at the WI openers.

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Post by AlciG Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:54 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Joseph is the type of nightwatchman who I can just about get on board with, if you're going to do it. He is very capable of an annoying 20-30 in the following morning, and usually gets them pretty quickly too.

True... He's a pretty decent batsman. I just don't understand how his average is so low.

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Post by AlciG Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:34 pm

WI in big trouble

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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:07 pm

Yep, four wickets in the first session. It's tough for the West Indies as it's supremely difficult batting conditions out there, with lots of variable bounce aiding the bowlers.

66 overs left for Pakistan to get the remaining five. Should be a stroll.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:55 pm

Pakistan do get over the line and draw the series 1-1, despite the spectre of bad light looming on the horizon. Enjoyable couple of tests, shame there isn't a third.

This was an excellent recovery from Pakistan who were 2/3 at the very start of the test. They played positive, attacking cricket and got the reward for it - Shaheen with ten wickets in the match, tremendous effort.

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Post by AlciG Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:56 pm

Well done Pakistan. Totally deserved with positive attitude.

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Post by sirfredperry Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:11 am

I see that Shaheen is officially listed as being 21 years old. He looks years older and as Pakistan birth-certificate accuracy has proved somewhat dodgy in the past I wonder if this age is really right.


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Post by alfie Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:11 am

Well done Pakistan thumbsup

I really don't much like two Test series . Always seems like barely getting past the warm ups...

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Post by Duty281 Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:15 pm

Bangladesh following up their 4-1 T20 series win over Australia by dismantling a similarly inexperienced NZ side, also on home turf - Kiwis bundled out for 60 in the opening T20, equalling their lowest ever T20 score.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:02 am

I see some issues are already arising in Afghan cricket and with their women's national side - unfortunately not unexpected. Can't personally see how the sport is going to continue in the country now the Taliban are back in power, especially for the women.

Did have a chuckle at the idea of a ultimatum from Cricket Australia will suddenly make the Taliban switch their ideology. Not quite sure the bigwigs at CA have the power they think they do on this one...(also lol at the idea they "unequivocally support the womens game")
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Post by Pal Joey Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:31 am

It's a great shame for Afghanistan, their cricket teams but unfortunately the decision had to be made. I'm not sure it was an "ultimatum" Olly... unless I've missed part of the statement or some journalist's exaggerated turn of phrase. Don't think CA believe they have the power to make the Taliban switch their ideology either. At least we have made great strides in unequivocally supporting the women's game here and the cancellation of the tour is the correct and only course of action.

Maybe they can have a tour England instead; schedule permitting? There's lots of Afghan expats in the UK too and cricket fans who'd love to see the Afghans play but I'm pretty sure the ECB would probably baulk at that one too. Sad, sad times for the people of Afghanistan, the women's game and for Afghan women in general it has to be said.
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Post by Jeff Navarro Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:27 pm

Some American fellow flogged 6 maximums in one over today. I’m guessing this is a) impressive b) a rare occurrence?

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Post by alfie Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:05 am

Pal Joey wrote:It's a great shame for Afghanistan, their cricket teams but unfortunately the decision had to be made. I'm not sure it was an "ultimatum" Olly... unless I've missed part of the statement or some journalist's exaggerated turn of phrase. Don't think CA believe they have the power to make the Taliban switch their ideology either. At least we have made great strides in unequivocally supporting the women's game here and the cancellation of the tour is the correct and only course of action.

Maybe they can have a tour England instead; schedule permitting? There's lots of Afghan expats in the UK too and cricket fans who'd love to see the Afghans play but I'm pretty sure the ECB would probably baulk at that one too. Sad, sad times for the people of Afghanistan, the women's game and for Afghan women in general it has to be said.

I think the decision by Cricket Australia is both "right" and indeed unavoidable. The right of Afghanistan to take part in the World t20 is surely also in question - which is sad for their male cricketers but I struggle to see how an exception from ICC rules can be made for them.

Incidentally I agree with you , PJ , that it doesn't exactly represent an "ultimatum".

Although I suppose Australia has some form in that regard : in 1892 I understand it was the Hobart Mercury that published a dramatic editorial that was headed "We Warn the Tsar !"  Smile


Last edited by alfie on Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : .)

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:50 am

New Zealand's limited-overs tour of Pakistan abandoned due to security concerns. Seemed pretty farcical with NZ only pulling out hours before the toss in the first ODI.

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Post by alfie Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:56 am

Not happy times for cricket in that part of the world...

Afghan cricket seems certain to be reduced to internal (male only) action as the ICC cannot allow a member of the Test and short form community to prohibit women from playing the game. And Pakistan , for all the best wishes of other national teams , is likely to be a place that not many will want to visit : and liable to face sudden cancellations like this even when tours are scheduled.

England booked to play some ODIs next year , no ? Not taking odds on that actually happening.

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Post by Duty281 Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:20 pm

England are meant to be going to Pakistan next month for 2 T20s, but I can't imagine that happening now. The ECB are going to make a decision over the weekend. If England do pull out of that tour I don't believe they have any other warm-up games scheduled, currently, for the T20 World Cup.

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Post by Duty281 Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:00 pm

Sri Lanka playing two tests v the West Indies in Sri Lanka. First test started today and Sri Lanka in a dominant position at 267/3 at stumps. Karunaratne with an unbeaten ton.

I see the West Indies, missing a few names, have given a debut to a player called Solozano - an opening batsman with a meagre FC average of 23. The cupboard is bare for them.


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:Sri Lanka playing two tests v the West Indies in Sri Lanka. First test started today and Sri Lanka in a dominant position at 267/3 at stumps. Karunaratne with an unbeaten ton.

I see the West Indies, missing a few names, have given a debut to a player called Solozano - an opening batsman with a meagre FC average of 23. The cupboard is bare for them.


They dropped Karnaratne on 14 too. And Solozano had to go to hospital after being struck on the head fielding at short leg...
Not a great start for them
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Post by Duty281 Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:52 pm

Despite most of day three being washed out, and other days being disrupted by poor light, West Indies are heading for an unsurprisingly big defeat - they're 52/6 at stumps on day four, needing a further 296 to win, though that was a half-decent recovery from 18/6! Spin doing all the damage, West Indies had no answer.

Two different test series starting tomorrow and Friday.

India v New Zealand in the first of two tests. This has passed by with seemingly little hype, despite being played between the two WTC finalists, probably because of so many absentees.

Kohli, Rohit, Pant, Bumrah and Shami are all missing for India as they're being rested (too much cricket), leaving them a highly inexperienced batting line-up...and the experienced options are the under-pressure Pujara and Rahane who are approaching the last-chance saloon. Bowling still looks very strong with Ashwin and Patel, the two Yadavs, plus Siraj and Sharma all available - it should be enough for India to defeat New Zealand.

Kiwis are missing a few names - Boult, Conway, CdG - but are closer to full-strength than India. Their batting will need to stand up well in sub-continent conditions to have a chance, because their spin options look predictably weak; in fact the seam trio of Wagner, Southee and Jamieson may do more damage than Santner, Somerville and Patel.

New Zealand have won 12 of their past 15 test series, which is just phenomenal, and whilst the majority of those have been home series it does include test series wins in the UAE and England. It'll be another level again to go and win in India where NZ's historical record is two wins in 34 tests.

And on Friday Pakistan start a series in Bangladesh. Shakib-Al-Hasan has been ruled out of the opener so it'll be an uphill struggle from the off for the home side.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:28 am

Whatever chance NZ had in this game were extinguished as they lost the toss and had to field first - India after a brief wobble, still looking good for 400+ on a pitch that has taken turn and variable bounce already
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Post by Duty281 Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:40 pm

Yep, if India push over 350 from here they've almost certainly got enough. Pitch already fairly tricky to bat on.

NZ made an error in going for three spinners who were predictably useless and expensive; made worse by Southee coming off with an injury, though he later returned albeit lacking fitness.

Jamieson, what a player. Best test bowler in the world if he stays fit. He has it all.

And Sri Lanka beat the West Indies, though the Caribbean side resisted a little longer than many would have expected...actually the West Indies were only about five minutes away from securing a draw - five minutes after the last wicket fell the heavens opened in typical Sri Lanka style. Cornwall played an utterly brainless shot which sparked the final flurry of wickets. Poor stuff from the West Indies, ill-disciplined batting throughout, similar to one of their defeats v England in 2020.

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Post by msp83 Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:47 pm

In the absence of rested skipper Virat Kohli, and the injury to KL Rahul that broughtt Shubman Gill back to the top of the order rather than Kohli's middle order spot, Shreyas Iyer got his long awaited test chance. Iyer had gained attention in the FC circles rather than the IPL thouggh he has been good there ttoo. He has an impressive FC record, though he hasn't played much of FC cricket of late. But a fine debut for him, 75 not out overnight, alongside Ravindra Jadeja, rescuing the side from a tricky position.
Surprised NZ didn't play Waggner. Only one of Somerville and Patel should have been played, with young all-rounder Rachin Ravindra, and skipper K himself, taking up more spin duties. Ravindra did have a tough debut with the ball, but the 2 frontline spinners didn't do much better either. And you just don't leavve out Neil Wagner, even more so when Trent Boult isn't available. Wagner is someone who can make things happen on the most unsupportive conditions, always bowling the tough overs. Williamson would surely have missed Wagner when Shreyas and Jadeja managed to get the Indian innings back on track after Jamieson had brought them right back in the game in the 2nd session.

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Post by king_carlos Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:17 pm

Agree that leaving out Wagner if he's fully fit is a mistake. He hasn't played since the WTC final though and is approaching 36 (sneakily older than many realise as his international breakthrough came late) so might not be fully fit.

Worth noting that Williamson doesn't bowl at all anymore though. The latest example of that being Glenn Phillips getting used as a part time offie ahead of him in the World T20. After his action got reported for throwing he did alter it to get cleared to bowl again but since has practically never turned his arm over. Safe to say he lost what effectiveness he had as a part timer when he had to make his action legal. Below is the action before being called for those interested.

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As is usually the case for this Indian side at home their outstanding spin options should be far too strong for the opposition. Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar in combination are fantastic.

Being able to rest Virat, Rohit and Rahul but just bring in Agarwal, Gill and Iyer is such enviable batting depth as well. Privthi Shaw is certainly still young enough to adapt his game to the longer form as well if the desire is there.

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Post by msp83 Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:07 pm

king_carlos wrote:Agree that leaving out Wagner if he's fully fit is a mistake. He hasn't played since the WTC final though and is approaching 36 (sneakily older than many realise as his international breakthrough came late) so might not be fully fit.

Worth noting that Williamson doesn't bowl at all anymore though. The latest example of that being Glenn Phillips getting used as a part time offie ahead of him in the World T20. After his action got reported for throwing he did alter it to get cleared to bowl again but since has practically never turned his arm over. Safe to say he lost what effectiveness he had as a part timer when he had to make his action legal. Below is the action before being called for those interested.

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As is usually the case for this Indian side at home their outstanding spin options should be far too strong for the opposition. Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar in combination are fantastic.

Being able to rest Virat, Rohit and Rahul but just bring in Agarwal, Gill and Iyer is such enviable batting depth as well. Privthi Shaw is certainly still young enough to adapt his game to the longer form as well if the desire is there.
Think Williamson hasn't been bowling in very recent times because of his injury concern with that elbow. He has bowled after his action related issues, all be it much less than earlier.
As for Wagner, think he still would have made a greater impact here than that 2nd frontline spinner.
Prithvi Shaw sttill is very much in the scheme of things, currently playing against the Soutth African A team in South Africa, and made a quick-fire 48 of 45 in the first game.

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Post by king_carlos Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:00 pm

The elbow is an issue but just another reason he doesn't really bowl anymore.

Williamson's international bowling in the last 5 years:

Test - Bowled 24 overs, taken 1 wicket

ODI - Bowled 70 overs, taken 11 wickets

T20i - Bowled 7 overs (last of them in 2018), taken 3 wickets

Not much basically. 70 overs in ODIs compared to 24 overs in Tests might seem a lot but that's spanning 65 ODIs. So just more than an over a match in the format he's used himself most.

In 2013 Williamson bowled 149.2 overs in Tests taking 14 wickets at an average of 32. A very useful option back then. He was reported for the action in 2014 and the most overs he's bowled in calendar year since is 27.2 back in 2015. It was pretty clear that changing the action affected his bowling and usage before the elbow injuries came about.

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Post by alfie Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:41 am

Terrific bowling effort from Southee on the second morning kept India to a modest 345 after Shreyas Iyer's brilliant debut century. A lot short of what they'd have fancied at 266/4.

Patel got a couple of wickets at last but it didn't look to be spinning square just yet so what NZ can do in their first innings will probably decide this game.

Ashwin on already at 14/0 so we will see if India's spinners can weave a web...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:41 am

alfie wrote:Terrific bowling effort from Southee on the second morning kept India to a modest 345 after Shreyas Iyer's brilliant debut century. A lot short of what they'd have fancied at 266/4.

Patel got a couple of wickets at last but it didn't look to be spinning square just yet so what NZ can do in their first innings will probably decide this game.

Ashwin on already at 14/0 so we will see if India's spinners can weave a web...

An exceptional day two for the Kiwis indeed Alfie! Slow progress with the bat, but Latham/Young both with unbeaten half centuries and NZ with ten wickets in tact and just over 200 behind at the moment.
They'll be hoping to bat the whole of tomorrow, and into day four...but as we've seen already in this game, wickets can fall in clusters. Second new ball will be key

In day one in Chittagong Bangladesh won the toss and batted...and would've been fearing the worst at 49/4 and the top four all out, but a superb 204 run unbeaten partnership from Mushfiqur and Liton Das (who hit his first test hundred) has seen them get to 253-4 at close of play. I've not seen the highlights on Youtube yet to know what the pitch was doing, but they're playing themselves into the game for sure
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Post by alfie Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:12 pm

Didn't get to watch a lot of the NZ batting but I see they have indeed finished the day in a fairly promising position. No wickets down in 57 overs is an excellent start - though as you say , Olly , wickets can come along in bunches...

I gather NZ have had to call on drs to save them several times : seems the umpires are a bit twitchier than in the morning when Southee was denied what looked a clear lbw against Jadeja - umpires call by a millimetre. Not that it mattered as he got out a few balls later ; but the Kiwis might hope to get on the right side of some close calls as the game wears on. Think the spinners will have more fun on the later days.

Might get to watch a bit tomorrow as our own game is off : opposition have forfeited ; annoying after waiting so long to start the season but at least we have some points on the board Smile

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:30 pm

I think it's safe to say that the Indian umpires are not up to grade really, their ineptitude does tend to swing one way though however.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:58 pm

Good effort by NZ. Quite shameful the way NZ is treated by England who rarely give them more than two Tests at a time in England.

At least there are three E v NZ Tests next summer. NZ should never be given anything less than a three-Test series in England again.




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Post by Duty281 Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:03 pm

Tremendous effort from NZ, but they're still behind in terms of the match situation. Brilliant from Southee in the morning to keep his team in it, then a very controlled and disciplined effort from the NZ openers to take them to stumps. But because NZ are batting last they'll need at least a 100 run lead - that's another four sessions of batting at this current rate, and wickets can fall in clusters very easily on the subcontinent, especially with the turn expected to sharpen on day three.

Good start from Bangladesh in their test.

South Africa are playing a ODI series v the Dutch as part of the ODI Super League. I don't know if anyone else has heard, but this will be the one and only ODI Super League as it will be scrapped after 2023.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:05 pm

Liton Das has scored a century for Bangladesh against Pakistan. A highly frustrating player, has all the ability in the world but across all formats is prone to brain farts once reasonably set, good to see him make a telling score for a change.

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