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Rest of the World

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Galted
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Post by Gooseberry Mon 11 Jan 2021, 7:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:
JDizzle wrote:
Duty281 wrote:So the most likely scenario is an Australia/New Zealand final at Lord's.

There are many things wrong with the WTC - points system is convulsed and perhaps not particularly fair - but Test cricket at neutral venues is something worth getting excited about! Shame it is only one game.

Yeah, I can't personally say that I am a fan of the WTC. The points system doesn't work properly, fixtures are of unequal value and weighting, and boiling an entire test championship down to one solitary fixture to decide the winner doesn't seem right to me.

That said, I think that Australia and New Zealand are the two best test teams in the world right now and, if that is the final, it would be the right fixture. A shame, as you say, that it's only one game and not, at least, a three-game series.

The current system is a temporary fudge to get around the unforseen situation and make the best of whatever fixtures could be fulfilled.

Had it gone to plan all the teams wouldve played home and away fixtures and had equal opportunities to earn points. That hasnt been the case, but at the same time I dont think anyone can argue theres not a clear top 3 teams with England sat just behind them and the rest of the world a significant step back from that.

One off game may be a bit unfair in that the toss could well play a major part in deciding it, but its always been about providing a focused big televised event rather than genuine competition. However the remaining fixtures pan out we should end up with two teams who deserve to be in the final even if New Zealand have just played at home. A long series in a neutral country just isn't viable in the modern calendar or that interesting to anything other than the hardcore fans.

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:07 am

Jansen has given away just 2 runs in his 7 overs, and Ngidi just 8 in his 6!. Relentless from South Africa. And so far, good discipline from the Indian bats.

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:08 am

Oh South Africa! The pressure they built up, almost consumes Vihari, only for Temba Bavuma to drop a chance that he should have taken!

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:10 am

Not the best of deliveries from Ngidi in isolation as it was short and wide, there to be hit. But it came after a sustained period of pressure making the batter look for that release shot. Well set-up by Ngidi, but...

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:11 am

Not much luck going South Africa's way, Rahul now edges one, only for the ball to fly over the slips for 4...

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:12 am

A wicket here, India would be there for the taking, bowling them out for 150 would be a real prospect. The 2 batters will have to tighten up...

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:42 am

Vihari doesn't grab his chance, not quite. Got to play because of Kohli's injury, got a life before he made it to double digits. Now gone for 20.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 03 Jan 2022, 12:00 pm

Pal Joey wrote:I had the Kiwi game on all day and must say it was quite slow and testing to watch. Don't want to take anything away from Bangladesh - all of them batted with great patience and application (apart from Mushfiqur) and thoroughly deserve to be in the position they're currently in.

However, if any pitch can be described as a road - this is it. Pretty much a slow, low sub-continental road that is. I know it's hot there but it's a very poor pitch. Having said that; we'll now probably see 24 wickets fall in the next 2 days. (I doubt it) We'll need a sporting declaration from Bangladesh if we are to experience any result. Would be great if they did that and put even more pressure on this lack-lustre NZ outfit.

Apart from Wagner's early spell yesterday, all the Kiwi bowlers seemed to lack energy throughout most of the day. It was very, very difficult to watch.

I still think they should have definitely gone for a review yesterday (it was hitting and on line) when Wagner was on a proper aggressive roll and practically jumping out of his own skin. It would (should) have then been 44/2... and a very different situation. Instead, Bangladesh lost their 2nd wicket at 147! It was very poor and weak captaincy from Latham. NZ have that annoying tendency to be a little too tentative... almost as if they are afraid to take a punt, for fear of insulting the opposition; although Wagner himself changed tune immediately after his appeal and then seemed to be suddenly asking the question, which Latham obviously took as not being confident enough. They have surely paid the price; toiling for the next 135 overs and there's still 4 wickets to get.

You know things are extremely tough for NZ when the conversation turns to funny hats, there are too many crowd shots of people in fancy dress and the loudest noise is coming from the seagulls (who seemed to dominate both on and off the field). Then Mark Richardson spends half an hour complaining about the position of the rope after it got (accidentally) moved by a fielder. His solution of painting a line around the boundary is a very good one of course  OK  ...but boy oh boy did he go on and on about it! A bit like this post...!!!

So they really lost the plot (just like the Kiwi bowlers) until late in the day when Bangladesh had taken the lead and they seemed to find some voice again. They had a good go at Southee (sure he struggled on that pitch) and Ravindra (also found things difficult); but you really know it's going to be a long and painful day of commentary when they start talking about the bowling selections for Christchurch - halfway through day 3 of the preceding test.

Even my Mum, who is a Kiwi, got so fed up listening to all the boring, negative talk she had to leave the room and read more of the book. She doesn't mind Katie Martin and Leslie Murdoch though. They were the only ones who didn't waffle on too much and actually tried to talk some sense and make some half decent commentary on a very difficult game to call... if you're a Kiwi.  Smile

Unfortunately PJ the pitches in New Zealand in recent years have all seemed to follow this trend - not exactly the greatest for entertaining test match cricket, but NZ have mastered the way to play on them (most of the time anyways)
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Jan 2022, 1:00 pm

The "flaky-ness" Indian batting line-up showing
Had Rahul failed...it would have been worse.......is why you cannot carry dead-load of Puajara & Rahane
Vihari should rue not converting this to atleast a 50

Pant needs to bat thru to the end now and Shardul, Shami, Bumrah have to all get into double digits atelast
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Jan 2022, 1:31 pm

3 batting failures in a row...and shardul thakur putting both his position under pressure and kinda spinning wheels off India's 5 bowler composition based on Shardul as an allrounder
SA has upper-hand now in the game....by how much?
We will know only when they bat and we see how much bite & bounce Indians seamers get ( or don't get) off the pitch
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Jan 2022, 1:53 pm

Ashwin gets runs...but technically bad runs.....gets away from the line of the ball....legsidish....and the flays on the off side,
You hit him somewhere or dig into his body and he starts withdrawing further from line of ball......and tailender in him becomes evident
200 not on.
Wonder why on seaming and bouncy pitches ...bowlers haven't figured out his wekness
Bumrah's batting has improved on the tour of Eng
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 03 Jan 2022, 2:03 pm

This Marco Jansen fella looks a heck of a prospect!
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Post by king_carlos Mon 03 Jan 2022, 2:28 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This Marco Jansen fella looks a heck of a prospect!
He's got a twin brother too. Decent finds for the Proteas!

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 2:45 pm

So India bowled out for 202. Think below par on this surely lively track. KL played very well, and Ashwin's valuable runs got them to 200. Mayank, Pant and Vihari failing to convert starts. Shardul Thakur looking more like a bowler who can bat rather than someone who could evolve into an all-rounder. And the problem is that while he's an honest operator with the ball, he's not a particularly good one. Its the package that is valuable, can't be picked on his bowling alone, when Umesh, and even for that matter an aging Ishant are sitting out. Early days, and think Shardul has enough credit left in the bank to get a few more chances. India yet again, is missing Ravindra Jadeja the batter...

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Post by msp83 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 5:22 pm

So South Africa end the day at 35-1, losing only Aiden Markrum in the 18 overs they batted. Petersen should have been gone too, had Rishabh Pant held on to a chance of Jasprit Bumrah. The Indian seamers including Bumrah initially struggled to find the right length, but they kept SA under check throughout. A good morning session can bring them right back into the game. But if South Africa avoid much damage in the first session, then they should be able to take a decent first innings lead.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Jan 2022, 6:54 pm

msp83 wrote:  . Shardul Thakur looking more like a bowler who can bat rather than someone who could evolve into an all-rounder. And the problem is that while he's an honest operator with the ball, he's not a particularly good one. Its the package that is valuable, can't be picked on his bowling alone, when Umesh, and even for that matter an aging Ishant are sitting out. Early days, and think Shardul has enough credit left in the bank to get a few more chances. India yet again, is missing Ravindra Jadeja the batter...

Shardul made a break thru into India side as a specialist bowler on merit...and he is a pretty decent bowler capable of holding a place as one of top-3 seamers
Looks like under Kohli in tHe last couple of tests,,,he has been asked to sacrifice his wicket taking approach which included bouncers and faster deliveries touching 140kph...and focus on line and length at medium pace to keep it tight......and barely gets to bowl.....had merely 5 overs in 2nd innings and 10 in the first of T1

Don't be surprised if in the absence of Siraj...he ends up bowling like a 3rd seamer....being the top wicket taker tomm
He is a bowler who can bat....and not a batsman cum bowler.

Jadeja was not missed......as Ashwin scored as many as we would have happily taken from Jadeja

Ind's problem is as I wrote at the start of series....3 dead middle order batters.,....70 odd between Rahanae & Pujara would have seen Ind thru to a respectable 275ish

Great opportunity for SA to take a 70 to 100 run lead and get firmly ahead in the game.
From Ind's P.O.V they still have 3 seamers and 4 bowlers standing....pitch has a lot in it..especially by way of bounce....and once you get Elgar...it's a different ball game as we saw in T1
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Post by Duty281 Mon 03 Jan 2022, 7:34 pm

Very good effort from South Africa with the ball, especially Jansen, but India still well in it. It's the type of pitch where sudden collapses can and do happen. Anyone who gets a half-century has done extremely well.

It's the end of the road for Rahane, realistically.

On Bangladesh/New Zealand - yes, it's a slow track, but the bowlers are well in the game. NZ created numerous half-chances and there's plenty of low bounce. I really think Bangladesh can create a bit of history and win in New Zealand, if they hold their nerve.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 03 Jan 2022, 11:28 pm

Just having a look at Bangladesh’s top scores in the past, and came across the fact that they actually made a huge 595/8 declared the last time they were in NZ. And they managed to lose that! So I’m not getting carried away yet.

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Post by Pal Joey Tue 04 Jan 2022, 4:57 am

Ebadot strikes twice in an over and Bangladesh take control of the match once again.

First, Young goes for a pull shot, misses... and it hits the top of off stump. He was looking good on 69.
Then two balls later Nicholls gets clean bowled for a duck.

So a very interesting final day coming up with NZ leading by 6 runs and now suddenly at 136/4.
There's still around 10 overs left in the day and this match has truly come alive.

Now Blundell appears trapped lbw. Going for a review... Out!

NZ 136/5
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Post by KP_fan Tue 04 Jan 2022, 6:10 am

NZ are 17 runs on and will bat time.to save their backsides

I think even if they bat out two sessions, which in itself will be a Herculean task....BD can well chase it down in one session
Odds stacked against NZ
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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 6:27 am

Very impressed with Ebadot Hossain ... brought the game alive again just when it appeared Young and Taylor were steering NZ into safe waters : pretty turbulent now !

Not calling it yet mind. Taylor still there and a couple of these Kiwi bowlers can handle a bat. If they were to bat two sessions I would certainly expect a draw ; but I think that might be pushing it. Perhaps more likely to add enough runs to give Bangladesh a far from straightforward chase - which might test their nerves . And might also make for an exciting finish. Bangladesh will doubtless quite confident overnight though after enjoying perhaps their best four days on tour ever...

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 8:33 am

That late flourish has won Bangladesh the test. It's a straight run in from here. New ball not too far away, long Kiwi tail, and the glorious scent of victory.

Bangladesh are still around 11/10, however. That's some of the best odds I've ever seen, they should be 1/4 or 1/5.

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:10 am

Petersen and Elgar taking the game away from India, ball, by ball! Pant's drop of Petersen becoming more and more crucial, by the minute. Unlike Hanuma Vihari, Petersen making his chance count.

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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:16 am

Only 70 runs though , msp.  Way to go still . One brings two etc...

I am not sure I rate the SA batting that much so plenty of time for this to turn around yet. India really want a break soon though.  

That Elgar fellow is very patient...probably not auditioning for a spot in The Hundred Smile

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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:37 am

Elgar goes sparring at one hitting what was probably his 6th or seventh stump. Not a bad ball, but bit of giveaway. That's the problem with letting people just bowl at you. Batsmen with lower strike rates always do seem to get out to better balls.
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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:41 am

Guess you might say Elgar has set it up for the later bats. But I think this partnership is important now : only Bavuma left before we get into all rounders and less experience...

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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:51 am

alfie wrote:Guess you might say Elgar has set it up for the later bats. But I think this partnership is important now : only Bavuma left before we get into all rounders and less experience...

One thing to do that with Kallis coming in at 4, then AB, then Quinton. When there is literally only one other batsman in the entire squad with a Test ton after the openers, then you've got to be setting it up for yourself. You've got to be one of the match winners.
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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 9:55 am

One brings two. 101/3 isn't awful, but one batsman short, and suddenly it looks like we'll probably be having a one wicket shoot out.

Perersen really did go driving a wide one with 10 minutes to go until lunch. Rookie error from the, uh, rookie.
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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:06 am

One brings three ! SA in a bit of bother now at 102/4. Will welcome a stop for lunch ; but I think they are going to struggle from here.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:09 am

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:  . Shardul Thakur looking more like a bowler who can bat rather than someone who could evolve into an all-rounder. And the problem is that while he's an honest operator with the ball, he's not a particularly good one. Its the package that is valuable, can't be picked on his bowling alone, when Umesh, and even for that matter an aging Ishant are sitting out. Early days, and think Shardul has enough credit left in the bank to get a few more chances. India yet again, is missing Ravindra Jadeja the batter...

Shardul made a break thru into India side as a specialist bowler on merit...and he is a pretty decent bowler capable of holding a place as one of top-3 seamers
Looks like under Kohli in tHe last couple of tests,,,he has been asked to sacrifice his wicket taking approach which included bouncers and faster deliveries touching 140kph...and focus on line and length at medium pace to keep it tight......and barely gets to bowl.....had merely 5 overs in 2nd innings and 10 in the first of T1

Don't be surprised if in the absence of Siraj...he ends up bowling like a 3rd seamer....being the top wicket taker tomm
He is a bowler who can bat....and not a batsman cum bowler.

Jadeja was not missed......as Ashwin scored as many as we would have happily taken from Jadeja

Ind's problem is as I wrote at the start of series....3 dead middle order batters.,....70 odd between Rahanae & Pujara would have seen Ind thru to a respectable 275ish

Great opportunity for SA to take a 70 to 100 run lead and get firmly ahead in the game.
From Ind's P.O.V they still have 3 seamers and 4 bowlers standing....pitch has a lot in it..especially by way of bounce....and once you get Elgar...it's a different ball game as we saw in T1

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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:16 am

It's a really good ball to get Rassie. But it's also the kind of dismissal that you never saw a decade, 15 years ago. That's broken like an off break with a 42-over old ball. I don't know if bowlers have gotten that much better or if ICC have to look at maybe going the other way when it comes to the balance of conditions. Haysman has spoken about how Kookaburra made a concerted effort to have the ball stay lively for longer, but I'm not convinced Test cricket needs a procession of dismissals to remain watchable.
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Post by KP_fan Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:19 am

Siraj's injury is a blessing in disguise for India...forcing them to use Shardul like a proper 3rd seamer....and sensing the situation & given the opportunity Shardul slips into his enforcer role.....bouncers are back....top speed was 136kph.

Having gone thru Ranji grind, his fitness is good though he looks fat and is nicknamed Beefy......he can and will touch 140kph...and his ability to swing it both ways...I had called him a Poor man's Anderson one time  in this forum.

Ball is swinging, seaming, bouncing and.....and looks SA will end up +/- within 20 runs of Indian total....making it a single inning shootout.

If either side manages to secure a lead of 50odd....then they are head in front and tail-up
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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:38 am

KPF's man Shardul, his triple strike has brought India right back into the game after Elgar and Petersen seemed in control.

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 10:59 am

Shardul surely is an experienced customer in domestic cricket, and made it to the squad for his bowling. But he's not quite in the range of the new gen fast bowlers who have changed Indian test cricket in the last few years. On the lower end of fast-medium, not quite 140 KPH material though he at times may have reached closer. Good back-up option, but for me, he's still behind Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Ishant... But add his batting to the mix, he can leapfrog Ishant and Umesh and make it to the playing 11 regularly in overseas conditions. But for that, his batting has to click. And I am not holding the 3 failings against him, he has already won India 2 tests with the bat and has credits in the bank. I was just hoping he stays focused on his all-round responsibility and continue to contribute with the bat... Just didn't get in any of the 3 innings and didn't look like it. But he has made up for a lot of it already...

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 11:02 am

Bavuma has been a thorn for the Indian bowling unit, and yet again, he's looking in decent control. With Siraj's issues, demanding times for the Indian bowlers. Think KL should get Ashwin on from one end and rotate his quicks from the other. The ball is almost 50 overs old...

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 11:08 am

This lad Kyle Verreynne, though he has big boots to fill, does have a mightly impressive FC record for a wicketkeeper bat. Averages nearly 52 from 50 games. He hasn't shown it at the top level in his 2 previous tests when playing as a batter for the injured Temba Bavuma. Does look a fine prospect, hope he could take a few more games to show the world all that.
But going by his and Ryan Rickelton's batting records, if they transfer a reasonable amount of that to the top level, South Africa may not miss Quinton de Kock all that much.

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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 11:10 am

Suddenly, Verreynne and Bavuma adding some quick runs, and India's total seems too small again. A wicket here can change it just as quickly, but India do need one very quickly indeed.

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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Jan 2022, 11:40 am

SA trail by 59. Carrying an slow bowler you're not planning on bowling instead of an extra batter might be where this Test is won or lost
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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 11:43 am

Nice ebb and flow in this game. Still very balanced at the moment. SA edging towards at least parity - but "add two wickets"...

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Post by alfie Tue 04 Jan 2022, 12:25 pm

Two wickets duly added - though that fifth wicket stand was handy.

Can't stop Thakur today ! Still looks like a SA lead but might not be very much of one. Fancy we are getting a result here...

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Post by KP_fan Tue 04 Jan 2022, 12:42 pm

msp83 wrote:Shardul surely is an experienced customer in domestic cricket, and made it to the squad for his bowling. But he's not quite in the range of the new gen fast bowlers who have changed Indian test cricket in the last few years. On the lower end of fast-medium, not quite 140 KPH material though he at times may have reached closer. Good back-up option, but for me, he's still behind Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Ishant... But add his batting to the mix, he can leapfrog Ishant and Umesh and make it to the playing 11 regularly in overseas conditions. But for that, his batting has to click. And I am not holding the 3 failings against him, he has already won India 2 tests with the bat and has credits in the bank. I was just hoping he stays focused on his all-round responsibility and continue to contribute with the bat... Just didn't get in any of the 3 innings and didn't look like it. But he has made up for a lot of it already...

I do understand and support Kohli's template of 140kph pace....BUT exceptions have to be made based on wicket taking skills.

It's potency and wicket taking abilities that matters and not just pace...and both Bhuvi & Shadrul are in that category....fast medium..but produce wicket taking deliveries....and not juts in seaming conditions...both these guys can do well with old ball reversing it also.
And this is where Kohli was too One-Dimensional ....keeping Bhuvi out of test cricket mix is almost a crime and he can bat too.

As I speak Shardul hits 140kph with his last ball yorker before tea
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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Jan 2022, 1:29 pm

kingraf wrote:SA trail by 59. Carrying an slow bowler you're not planning on bowling instead of an extra batter might be where this Test is won or lost
Maharaj making a difference with the bat already. Has played a couple of fine shots, and has taken the attack to the Indians, just when it seemed South Africa just lost the plot.

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