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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Post by alfie Fri 5 Feb - 5:37

First topic message reminder :

Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 5 Feb - 11:33

KP_fan wrote:The pitch was placid.....which is one or two levels flatter than flat
BUT....you still need to apply yourself and score BIG.

Its true, England have struggled on flat pitches in recent years not just with their bowlers looking placid but also with their batting crumbling inexplicably.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 11:34

Duty281 wrote:Well India have something to take into tomorrow, at least. Bumrah probably deserved another. Hard on Sibley who showed tremendous application for nearly six and a half hours.

England must convert this position into 500 minimum. A collapse tomorrow will let India back in on a great batting track.

But the day belongs to Root. clap clap clap

Yep - the aim should be to do the same again. Keep putting the miles into the bowlers, as even if it doesn't win them this game it should bear fruit later in the series. I want England to bat through the day or putting India in with only say 8 overs left at the close. Should score with a bit more fluency just from the nature of the batsmen available, without them needing to do anything extravagant.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 5 Feb - 11:41

BCCI tried to get e Sanspareil Greenland(SG) to fix the ball/seam ...issue and managed to break it further....making it harder for bowlers to get anything out of it.
The name might sound English but SG is a very Indian company

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/india-vs-england-test-series-darker-red-sanspareils-greenlands-ball-7174199/#:~:text=The%20ball%20will%20now%20have,important%20change%20is%20the%20seam.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 11:42

From here it should need one of Stokes, Pope or Buttler to get in and 500 is a realistic possibility. Shame Sibley didn't get his century but it's a job well done from his point of view, eating up 48 overs with that middle order to come is what he's there for.

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 5 Feb - 12:22

Soul Requiem wrote:From here it should need one of Stokes, Pope or Buttler to get in and 500 is a realistic possibility. Shame Sibley didn't get his century but it's a job well done from his point of view, eating up 48 overs with that middle order to come is what he's there for.

What I liked about that was he chewed the ball slowly and properly... avoiding a possible tummy upset whilst keeping the runs flowing.

My border collie could learn a thing or two from his textbook example of SG mastication.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 5 Feb - 12:28

dummy_half wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Well India have something to take into tomorrow, at least. Bumrah probably deserved another. Hard on Sibley who showed tremendous application for nearly six and a half hours.

England must convert this position into 500 minimum. A collapse tomorrow will let India back in on a great batting track.

But the day belongs to Root. clap clap clap

Yep - the aim should be to do the same again. Keep putting the miles into the bowlers, as even if it doesn't win them this game it should bear fruit later in the series. I want England to bat through the day or putting India in with only say 8 overs left at the close. Should score with a bit more fluency just from the nature of the batsmen available, without them needing to do anything extravagant.

Agreed. I remember a couple of tests (there may have been more!) over the last decade where England failed to convert promising overnight positions, on good batting wickets, and ended up losing by an innings. Specifically:

The Oval 2012 - 267/3 became 385 all out. South Africa made 637/2 in response.
Perth 2017 - 305/4 became 403 all out. Australia made 662/9 in response.

Can't allow the same thing to happen again. Even if England do make 500+, it'll be very tough to win unless the pitch deteriorates rapidly, or India bat like Sri Lanka (unlikely).

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 5 Feb - 12:52

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:I want you all to know that when I type rude and aggressive comments like this, I get a bit aroused and then do a special wee.

Now my special antenna is down, I don’t feel as angry.

These comments are getting weirder

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 5 Feb - 13:47

263-3 at the close of play, would have definitely taken that at the start...but such a shame for Sibley to miss out on a hundred, he played superbly. Burns really missed out today.

Root, no words to describe him at the minute. Just a joy to watch him bat.

Thought India did ok, pitch is fairly lifeless albeit there was one or two for Ashwin/Nadeem that turned, which obviously shows it will get worse as the game goes on. Crucial as others note that England convert this fantastic position into a score of 500+ ideally tomorrow, agree with Dummy_Half that ideally they will want to have a few overs at India tomorrow night...but personally think even another day of batting and bowling in the Indians legs would be fine too if they are say 530-8 or so towards close tomorrow...would much rather they carried on till they are all out, much easier to make your runs 1st dig!

Dummy also noted about the overs in the legs of the Indian bowlers...thought England and Root in particular did a great job at targeting Sundar and Nadeem to force them to bowl Ashwin/Bumrah more than they ideally would have liked. Considering the workload those two had in Australia, putting as many overs into them early in this series can only be a good thing for England (how bloody good is Bumrah by the way!).

Finally, while it is a shame for Sibley to be out, and there is the risk now he is out that things could quickly crumble...it does present the chance for Stokes/Pope/Buttler to come in, and naturally the run rate will increase if they stick around. Stokes having a full nights rest and knowing he's going in first thing, equivalent to Guildford's old "don't give them a break to get ready" when it comes to declarations...could be handy for him, rather than having to go out after sitting pads for five hours.
If him and Root can survive the initial burst of Bumrah/Ashwin tomorrow, or at worst only lose one of them...England could really make a move in the afternoon session. Of course, as Duty rightly points out...400 all out is still a possibility, especially with a longer than ideal tail.
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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 13:58

Olly

I certainly have lots of recent memories of England games where we've been in apparently good positions overnight* and then lost both set batsmen early in the morning session, hence Duty's 400 all out comment

*Seems usually to be overseas tests, as I recall waking up and checking the scores to find rather than the hoped for Root (for example) on 150, he was out for 80 and followed by a couple of others for not much and our lower order trying to eek out what they could.

The declaration would only be an option if we've well over 550, preferably 600 with half an hour or so left. I also remember a comment from iirc Broad about how he didn't like just having a couple of overs at the end, and preferred to have a reasonable spell (4 or 5 overs from each end) to try and build some pressure and find the rhythm.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 14:01

Alastair Cook
Hashim Amla
Jacques Kallis
Brian Lara
Ken Barrington
Garfield Sobers
Everton Weekes
Joe Root

The only overseas players to score centuries in three consecutive matches on the subcontinent; Weekes in fact scored four in four innings. Again not a bad list to be part of.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 5 Feb - 14:10

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
If him and Root can survive the initial burst of Bumrah/Ashwin tomorrow, or at worst only lose one of them...England could really make a move in the afternoon session. Of course, as Duty rightly points out...400 all out is still a possibility, especially with a longer than ideal tail.

It's a slightly longer tail but only in the context of the indulgence we used to have of Mo coming in at 8 or someone like Swann coming in at 9. We have now got Jos coming in at 7 rather than at 6 with a Woakes/Curran coming in at 7. This is a much more traditional line up and the correct one for me. Obviously helped hugely by the return of Stokes who just balances the whole line up. Bess at 8 shouldn't be an issue with 7 front line batters. We have had worse no 8's in recent memory.

This is exactly the scenario Smith must have had in mind when he recalled Buttler. Having him coming in at 7 with a proper score on the board (assuming Root, Stokes and Pope don't get skittled) rather than coming in at 124-5 and having to play within himself. Although, ironically, all those top order collapses have probably forced Buttler to become a better test match batsman.

Good player of spin as well so hopefully he can come in with England 400+ and smash them around a bit.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 14:39

Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 5 Feb - 14:47

Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 14:55

guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

That's a good question, and I suspect it's not occurred for at least 30 years. Wonder if Boycott ever managed it?

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 5 Feb - 15:02

dummy_half wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

That's a good question, and I suspect it's not occurred for at least 30 years. Wonder if Boycott ever managed it?

Hi Dummy - I did wonder about Boycott although my first choice would be Gavaskar.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 15:05

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-australia-1990-91-61737/australia-vs-england-3rd-test-63545/full-scorecard

Atherton was 0* not out overnight and by the end of the second day had only reached 94.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 5 Feb - 15:07

dummy_half wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

That's a good question, and I suspect it's not occurred for at least 30 years. Wonder if Boycott ever managed it?

It is a good question, but it's difficult to search for, alas.

I can confirm the great Geoffrey did it on multiple occasions, however:

Perth 1978 - Batted the first day for 63* (Gower made a century at the other end).
Port of Spain 1974 - Batted the first day for 97*.
Delhi 1981 - Batted the first day for 86* (Tavare was at the other end for a good portion, the crowd must have been comatose)

I don't believe Gavaskar ever actually batted the opening day without making a century, barring one example that is void because of rain.


Last edited by Duty281 on Fri 5 Feb - 15:10; edited 1 time in total

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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 15:08

Soul Requiem wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-australia-1990-91-61737/australia-vs-england-3rd-test-63545/full-scorecard

Atherton was 0* not out overnight and by the end of the second day had only reached 94.

Not quite an opening day, but I had forgotten just how turgid Athers could be at times. Still just about my 30 years suggestion (which makes me feel OLD, that Atherton was playing 30 years ago)

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 15:29

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-england-1998-61818/england-vs-south-africa-3rd-test-63806/full-scorecard

Gary Kirsten 98*

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 5 Feb - 15:31

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
If him and Root can survive the initial burst of Bumrah/Ashwin tomorrow, or at worst only lose one of them...England could really make a move in the afternoon session. Of course, as Duty rightly points out...400 all out is still a possibility, especially with a longer than ideal tail.

It's a slightly longer tail but only in the context of the indulgence we used to have of Mo coming in at 8 or someone like Swann coming in at 9. We have now got Jos coming in at 7 rather than at 6 with a Woakes/Curran coming in at 7. This is a much more traditional line up and the correct one for me. Obviously helped hugely by the return of Stokes who just balances the whole line up. Bess at 8 shouldn't be an issue with 7 front line batters. We have had worse no 8's in recent memory.

This is exactly the scenario Smith must have had in mind when he recalled Buttler. Having him coming in at 7 with a proper score on the board (assuming Root, Stokes and Pope don't get skittled) rather than coming in at 124-5 and having to play within himself. Although, ironically, all those top order collapses have probably forced Buttler to become a better test match batsman.

Good player of spin as well so hopefully he can come in with England 400+ and smash them around a bit.

Very fair points Tino - albeit the weird quirk to Buttler's batting since his successful recall is that generally, he's performed better when he's been coming in in those 124-4/5 esque scenarios, than the 350-4 type ones. Not sure why that is, he is maybe someone who prefers the pressure being fully on (?) but it definitely seems to be the case!
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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 5 Feb - 15:36

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
If him and Root can survive the initial burst of Bumrah/Ashwin tomorrow, or at worst only lose one of them...England could really make a move in the afternoon session. Of course, as Duty rightly points out...400 all out is still a possibility, especially with a longer than ideal tail.

It's a slightly longer tail but only in the context of the indulgence we used to have of Mo coming in at 8 or someone like Swann coming in at 9. We have now got Jos coming in at 7 rather than at 6 with a Woakes/Curran coming in at 7. This is a much more traditional line up and the correct one for me. Obviously helped hugely by the return of Stokes who just balances the whole line up. Bess at 8 shouldn't be an issue with 7 front line batters. We have had worse no 8's in recent memory.

This is exactly the scenario Smith must have had in mind when he recalled Buttler. Having him coming in at 7 with a proper score on the board (assuming Root, Stokes and Pope don't get skittled) rather than coming in at 124-5 and having to play within himself. Although, ironically, all those top order collapses have probably forced Buttler to become a better test match batsman.

Good player of spin as well so hopefully he can come in with England 400+ and smash them around a bit.

Very fair points Tino - albeit the weird quirk to Buttler's batting since his successful recall is that generally, he's performed better when he's been coming in in those 124-4/5 esque scenarios, than the 350-4 type ones. Not sure why that is, he is maybe someone who prefers the pressure being fully on (?) but it definitely seems to be the case!

Yep, that is a fair assessment. Let's hope he gets to come in tomorrow at 420 and deposits a few in the stands.

R.e Bess, I still shudder at watching Chris Tremlett stride out to bat at no 8 for England once. I can't remember who was at 9, 10 and 11 but my god they must have been bad.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 15:43

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

R.e Bess, I still shudder at watching Chris Tremlett stride out to bat at no 8 for England once. I can't remember who was at 9, 10 and 11 but my god they must have been bad.

I have a feeling it may have been Tuffers, Malcolm and Mullaley. Pretty sure Caddick came in at 8 a few times with some of these behind him.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 5 Feb - 15:47

dummy_half wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

R.e Bess, I still shudder at watching Chris Tremlett stride out to bat at no 8 for England once. I can't remember who was at 9, 10 and 11 but my god they must have been bad.

I have a feeling it may have been Tuffers, Malcolm and Mullaley. Pretty sure Caddick came in at 8 a few times with some of these behind him.

I think it was later than Mullally, Tuffers and Devon but I do remember Caddick batting at 8  as well.

I think it must have been Jimmy, Monty and maybe Onions behind him. It was at home but I can't remember who we were playing. I just remember Vaughan on the TV saying England can never have Tremlett batting as high as 8 again!

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 5 Feb - 15:48

I find the idea of Englands tail being long a bit of stretch (yes stretch), doubly so in a game where the opposition have Washington Sundar at 7 because Ashwins batting went the way of Broads.

Its certainly better than the alternative of picking lesser bowlers because Archer hasn't quite lived up to the all rounder tag or just moeen in any capacity.

Obviously the ideal would be to have root batting 1 to 11 but until theres some rules changes I will be content with Bess at 8.

Whilst the woakes at 9 lower order bailed england out a fair fee times those line ups also contrived to post some abysmal scores in soft conditions. If youre worried about who's batting 9-11 then you must be be really concerned about the top 6.

As it is englands batting worries are a lack of cricket for stokes and Pope but they have a lot in the tank still.

Pushing to a score around 500 should be possible. They didn't need thy much batting second in the tests inspite of the doom mongerers. Even conceiving to lose 7 wickets for another 150 wouldn't leave them in a bad position.

Biggest concern for me is if they can take 20 wickets, fortunately India have a longer than ideal tail


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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 15:52

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258469.html

8. Tremlett
9. Sidebottom
10. Panesar
11. Anderson

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 5 Feb - 15:56

Soul Requiem wrote:https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258469.html

8. Tremlett
9. Sidebottom
10. Panesar
11. Anderson

Lovely work, SR.

That is a tail to strike fear in the opposition....

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by superflyweight Fri 5 Feb - 16:02

I had the pleasure of seeing Andy Caddick hit a six against Sri Lanka in a one day game at the SCG in 2003. I was still so shaken by the experience that I nearly spilled two pints of lager on Sir Ian Botham on the way back from the bar to my seat. He was wearing the standard Sky cricket broadcasting uniform of tan trousers and pale blue shirt so could have got really messy.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 5 Feb - 16:03

Didn't England put out a team in the last couple of seasons where there were 9 Test centurions in it, with only Jimmy A and one of the openers not having one? An 8-9-10 of Ali-Woakes-Broad is definitely a different class from the horror listed above or my half-remembered Caddick-Tufnell-Mullaley-Malcolm.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 5 Feb - 16:07

There was a point in time when Bresnan batting at 8 had an average of over 40 matching all of the top 7 (all retired with 40+ averages). It worked out to be a quite ridiculous combined average of about 370.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 5 Feb - 16:34

Duty281 wrote:
dummy_half wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

That's a good question, and I suspect it's not occurred for at least 30 years. Wonder if Boycott ever managed it?

It is a good question, but it's difficult to search for, alas.

I can confirm the great Geoffrey did it on multiple occasions, however:

Perth 1978 - Batted the first day for 63* (Gower made a century at the other end).
Port of Spain 1974 - Batted the first day for 97*.
Delhi 1981 - Batted the first day for 86* (Tavare was at the other end for a good portion, the crowd must have been comatose)

I don't believe Gavaskar ever actually batted the opening day without making a century, barring one example that is void because of rain.

Fred Trueman, "If Geoffrey had played cricket the way he talked he would have had people queuing up to get into the ground instead of queuing up to leave". Trueman was probably one of Geoffrey's heroes as well!

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Post by king_carlos Fri 5 Feb - 16:37

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:R.e Bess, I still shudder at watching Chris Tremlett stride out to bat at no 8 for England once. I can't remember who was at 9, 10 and 11 but my god they must have been bad.
I used to find the mere sight of Tremlett holding a bat amusing. It looked like a toothpick in his hands. Alas had it not been for injuries Tremlett could have been some bowler.

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Post by msp83 Fri 5 Feb - 17:16

Great day for England, fine start to the series for them. That wicket at the end, India will have something to take into day 2. But they clearly are on the backfoot here. The only reason I wouldn't rule them out for this game is because they have surprised us quite a bit in the last few months.
Agree with KPF on the Kuldeep non-selection, also on not bowling Ishant in long spells. He's made for long spells, is Ishant. And he had recovered from the injury some time back and has been playing domestic cricket.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 5 Feb - 17:30

dummy_half wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

As far as I can see, Cook and Boycott are the only others to average over 45.
Presumably Pietersen would have been averaging well over 45 as well?

I seem to remember his 100th Test being the 1st Test of that disastrous Ashes tour that turned out to be his last so he must have been only just below 50 at that point.

Root being the only one averaging over 50 at that milestone shows his class though. It would be brilliant for England and himself if he can keep going tomorrow.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 5 Feb - 18:40

king_carlos wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
dummy_half wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Bess is a steady number 8, his average of 25 seems about right and you won't find many in his position with better. Last summer he averaged over 50 despite having a highest score of 31, he was not in 5 of his 7 innings. Yes I am so bored that i've looked up every possible stat I can find.

Hi Soul - I'm hoping you or someone like Duty (Duty's always good at this sort of thing) can tell me about any Test openers who have batted through an entire uninterrupted opening day for less than a century. Thought Sibley was going to do it but fell tantalisingly close.

That's a good question, and I suspect it's not occurred for at least 30 years. Wonder if Boycott ever managed it?

It is a good question, but it's difficult to search for, alas.

I can confirm the great Geoffrey did it on multiple occasions, however:

Perth 1978 - Batted the first day for 63* (Gower made a century at the other end).
Port of Spain 1974 - Batted the first day for 97*.
Delhi 1981 - Batted the first day for 86* (Tavare was at the other end for a good portion, the crowd must have been comatose)

I don't believe Gavaskar ever actually batted the opening day without making a century, barring one example that is void because of rain.

Fred Trueman, "If Geoffrey had played cricket the way he talked he would have had people queuing up to get into the ground instead of queuing up to leave". Trueman was probably one of Geoffrey's heroes as well!

Thanks, guys. Great quote there, Carlos. Very Happy

I think the honours (?) here might go to Pakistan's Mudassar Nazar. He's recorded as the slowest Test centurion and did so when he opened the first innings of the match on home soil against England in '77. Have a distant memory of it. He certainly batted into day 2 and believe day 1 might have been uninterrupted other than by boredom.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 5 Feb - 18:58

king_carlos wrote:
dummy_half wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

As far as I can see, Cook and Boycott are the only others to average over 45.
Presumably Pietersen would have been averaging well over 45 as well?

I seem to remember his 100th Test being the 1st Test of that disastrous Ashes tour that turned out to be his last so he must have been only just below 50 at that point.

Root being the only one averaging over 50 at that milestone shows his class though. It would be brilliant for England and himself if he can keep going tomorrow.

He averaged 48 for his 100th test, dropped to 47 by his retirement 3 matches later. Last time his average popped above 50 was his 77th test. The tail off after that was pretty consistent.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 5 Feb - 19:28

Gooseberry wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
dummy_half wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

As far as I can see, Cook and Boycott are the only others to average over 45.
Presumably Pietersen would have been averaging well over 45 as well?

I seem to remember his 100th Test being the 1st Test of that disastrous Ashes tour that turned out to be his last so he must have been only just below 50 at that point.

Root being the only one averaging over 50 at that milestone shows his class though. It would be brilliant for England and himself if he can keep going tomorrow.

He averaged 48 for his 100th test, dropped to 47 by his retirement 3 matches later. Last time his average popped above 50 was his 77th test. The tail off after that was pretty consistent.  
His body had certainly started to fail him in the longer forms by the time he was finally dropped. Consistent shoulder and ankle niggles. I remember watching him for Surrey in CC cricket when wanted a recall. His batting remained brutal at times but his fielding had certainly suffered with the injuries, it wasn't great to start with either.

Stroke players need a foundation of course and Strauss retiring followed by Trott losing form largely removed that.

I just rewatched The Edge on iPlayer the other day. Such a good documentary culminating in that side falling apart.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 5 Feb - 19:28

Back to the business in hand.

Think we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves with talk of 450 and 500+.

Not impossible but there's still some heavy lifting to be done. Lose 3 for 75 in the opening session tomorrow and we'll be 330 odd/6 at lunch with one of the tail already in.

I also wouldn't be so quick as to condemn the track. We're only one day in. Need to see how it goes before sending off a letter of complaint or praise to the head groundsman.   

Bumrah deserved at least his 2 wickets today. I went for him in Joey's comp for two reasons. Firstly, he looks a class act whenever I watch him. Secondly, if it wasn't for bad luck, he would have had no luck against Australia - and that must change soon.

Root was splendid once again whilst Sibley was splendidly determined and effective.

As for the comments from one poster rubbishing Root - probably best for giants (and that's everyone else here) not to concern themselves with a pygmy. Apologies if that's heightist.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 5 Feb - 19:39

guildfordbat wrote:Back to the business in hand.

Think we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves with talk of 450 and 500+.

Not impossible but there's still some heavy lifting to be done. Lose 3 for 75 in the opening session tomorrow and we'll be 330 odd/6 at lunch with one of the tail already in.

I also wouldn't be so quick as to condemn the track. We're only one day in. Need to see how it goes before sending off a letter of complaint or praise to the head groundsman.
Agree completely that there's a lot of hard work to do tomorrow with the bat. Given Pope (class act though he is) has played one innings in a warm-up since doing his shoulder so the partnership between Root and Stokes will be very important.

I think this situation sums up the difference between first innings in England and India well. At 263-3 in England they would be well on top. In India it is just above parity with half the graft in this innings hopefully still to come.

The difference between Bumrah, Ishant and Ashwin compared to Sundar and Nadeem was stark in terms of control today. I feel England will need to bat long enough again tomorrow to force Kohli to call on the less experienced bowlers again. Those more experienced three will offer up very little.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Fri 5 Feb - 19:47

Turgid
Swollen and distended or congested.
Tino's crotch was turgid.

Torpid
Mentally or physically inactive; lethargic.
Tino's start in the tipping competition was torpid.

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Post by JDizzle Fri 5 Feb - 20:02

Only really caught the highlights (other than some snippets of the live stuff) - but the ball to get Lawrence reversed a long way and that was only in the 25th over so Root and Sibley must have batted well!

Surprised Bumrah and Ishant didn’t get more joy. I am excited to see how Jofra goes on these wickets - see if he can find some of the same reverse swing!

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 5 Feb - 20:03

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
...

Finally, while it is a shame for Sibley to be out, and there is the risk now he is out that things could quickly crumble...it does present the chance for Stokes/Pope/Buttler to come in, and naturally the run rate will increase if they stick around. Stokes having a full nights rest and knowing he's going in first thing, equivalent to Guildford's old "don't give them a break to get ready" when it comes to declarations...could be handy for him, rather than having to go out after sitting pads for five hours.
If him and Root can survive the initial burst of Bumrah/Ashwin tomorrow, or at worst only lose one of them...England could really make a move in the afternoon session. Of course, as Duty rightly points out...400 all out is still a possibility, especially with a longer than ideal tail.

And Sibley not getting out until the final over at least meant we didn't use a night watchman! Wink


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Post by Pal Joey Sat 6 Feb - 1:01

guildfordbat wrote:

As for the comments from one poster rubbishing Root - probably best for giants (and that's everyone else here) not to concern themselves with a pygmy. Apologies if that's heightist.

Are you standing on your library ladder at Bat Towers again, Guildford?  Smile

Just realised. Could that poster could be Steffan? Very similar tone with those disparaging remarks. Best left ignored.


Must say as a neutral I really enjoyed the first day's play yesterday.

At 63/2 just before lunch I thought: "oh no, England are going to now experience a similar dose of medicine to what happened to Australia just recently. Luckily, that didn't happen and it was fantastic watching Sibley and Root go about their business after lunch. One has to really admire Root (I always have) and Sibley for their superb resistance. As the day wore on and the runs started to accumulate, I then started to feel a little concerned for India too - as expressed by KP_F with his comments about the captaincy, choice of bowlers, state of the pitch, etc. Almost a perfect day's cricket to watch I thought. Root's classic sweep shot off Nadeem to the mid-wicket boundary with his bat parallel to the pitch just millimetres off the ground when he was on around 70 was the highlight for me.

Don't think it's too much of a serious problem for India just yet. First day of a home Test and coming off a high down here, you could expect that sort of cautious approach, in a way, as the gears start to turn over again and produce some traction. Hopefully (for India) it's not any form of complacency setting in - but just a slow start and a regrouping of a marvellous set of players who expended so much energy in Australia. That's normal.

I noticed Kohli looking very relaxed and chirpy with Gill in the field early in the day - obviously because he's a Dad now and also because of the team's remarkable performance in Australia. One can't help but excuse him for appearing to be so casual and relaxed like that. We all know, however, that this a long haul series and no doubt the steely determination (under the smiles) will always be there. Sure, he could have been more aggressive in his captaincy and had a bit more luck on a few occasions - but he'll know it only takes a slight turnaround in fortune to change the whole complexion of the match. Then I think he'll know how to apply more pressure.

Also like to add that I thought the presentation as a whole and the commentary yesterday was a breath of fresh air - compared with the silly remarks and unnecessary hype they call 'commentary' here in this country... which misses the mark on so many levels. It's very, very poor. It's so much more pleasant to hear someone just calling the match as it is and remain on point with an economy of simple facts and measured wisdom about the game. OK, so Nick Knight started to foam a little at the mouth (nothing a dry biscuit can't sort out) when complimenting Root in particular (that's fair enough) but without seeming too critical (who am I to judge?) he was also quite easy and pleasant to listen to.

I loved hearing Sunil Gavaskar, Murali Kartik, Laxman Sivaramakrishnan and Deep Dasgupta just calmly calling the proceedings with hardly an air of panic - given the scoreboard situation increasingly favouring England - and even throwing in a few funny self-effacing remarks about their own similar difficult predicaments in days gone by. No boasting, whinging or whining away... it made for very easy, interesting and informative listening.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 6 Feb - 5:06

Perfect start to the morning for England. Forty runs added without loss. Some crisp boundaries hit by Stokes. Hardly anything for the bowlers to work with. Closest India came to a wicket was Bumrah delivering another outstanding yorker, but Stokes was able to just about dig it out.

India's fourth and fifth bowlers will have to contribute some good spells, otherwise England will continue to dominate the day.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 6 Feb - 5:06

Good first hour for England, albeit Bumrah, Ashwin and Ishant have been threatening and bowled well this morning
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Post by Duty281 Sat 6 Feb - 5:24

India lose two reviews in about five minutes. One was a hopeless shout against Stokes which was clearly glove first. The other, against Root, a bit closer but still comfortably going over.

Root not at his fluent best this morning, but still scoring and getting close to a 150.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 6 Feb - 5:38

Stokes currently engaging in what I’d call glorious chaos
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Post by eirebilly Sat 6 Feb - 6:05

That was an excellent session for England with Stokes really taking it to the Indians. Again i have question marks about Kohli's captaincy, when it goes well for him he looks a genius but when its not he looks totally bereft of ideas and seems to have not patience to sticking to a plan.

500 is definitely on here.
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 6 Feb - 6:06

Stokes looks in the mood and despite a bit of luck is ticking along nicely, was always the risk for India with the foundations set.

Interesting to see how Roots mindset changes depending on who is at the other hand, with Sibley he took the lead but with Stokes is supporting.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 6 Feb - 6:06

92-0 in that session for England, definitely not without chances, India dropped two half chances off Stokes and missed a run out, a bit more happening for the spinners...but Root and Stokes still there. Stokes beginning to seriously accelerate as the session went on, with Root playing more of the “Sibley” role today
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Post by Duty281 Sat 6 Feb - 6:06

Perfect morning for England. A fine innings from Stokes with some shots of immaculate timing and beautiful sweeps. India have had no answer to it. Interestingly we've seen a couple of balls misbehave, which will further encourage England.

No excuse, from here, to not make 550+. Softer ball, India tired and demoralised, Pope and Buttler still to bat.

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