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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 5:37 am

First topic message reminder :

Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

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Post by msp83 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:20 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
msp83 wrote:SG had claimed that the ball being used for the series is likely to stay hard and in tact for much longer than what has been happening in recent times. But even before tea, it was really coming off at the seam...

Is it a Kookaburra MSP?
No, In India we use balls from a local manufacturer, SG. Kohli, Ashwin and a few other players have gone on record complaining about the quality of the ball and SG has been saying that they are working on the basis of player feedback.

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Post by msp83 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:23 am

alfie wrote:Hi , msp

I too have been wondering why Kuldeep wasn't picked. (wasn't in Australia either ) I guess he can't bat for toffee but is that the only reason ?
Washington presumably required to shorten the tail. I really don't know a lot about Nadeem but he's not impressed me in the early part of this innings...

Alfie Kuldeep is not that bad a bat really. No bowling all-rounder, but not a number 11 by any standards. Not much between him and Nadeem with the bat really. Both decent number 9s, particularly in home conditions.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:27 am

Late to the party here ... quick thoughts on England selections. Feels to me like they got caught in two minds in regard to the top order and giving young players a chance. Burns walking back in was always likley with both the others struggling, but still feels dodgy. Sibley obviously did just enough in the last test to get ahead of Crawley, but dont expect his dropping to be a long term thing. So far that piece seems to be panning out OK.

Lawrence at 3 though seems like a poisoned chalice and somewhere they couldve moved Crawley to. Guess there was a desire to avoid having too stodgy a top 3 again, which has merits. And then maybe Pope wouldve been the natural player to put there, but not straight in off the back of a long injury lay off.

Doesnt feel quite like their natural or first choice top 7, but on paper pretty strong and its going well so far.

Down the order seems Stokes is well enough to bowl the modest number of overs that Currans spot wouldve had and we've ended up with pretty much what was expected. No doubt Broads having a massive sulk about Anderson not getting in ahead of him but the big thing is avoiding the trap of going back to Moeen to get 6 bowlers in. Still a strong chance that might happen later in the series if Bess and Leach aren't doing the business, but would've been absolute madness to go straight in with him.

As it is Channel 4 haven't broken cricket yet in spite of not employ a racist misogynist to tell us about how cricket was played 50 years ago.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:32 am

Pathetic 100 partnership up

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:39 am

msp83 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
msp83 wrote:SG had claimed that the ball being used for the series is likely to stay hard and in tact for much longer than what has been happening in recent times. But even before tea, it was really coming off at the seam...

Is it a Kookaburra MSP?
No, In India we use balls from a local manufacturer, SG. Kohli, Ashwin and a few other players have gone on record complaining about the quality of the ball and SG has been saying that they are working on the basis of player feedback.

India trying to get it changes already

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Post by dummy_half Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:54 am

Gooseberry wrote:Late to the party here ... quick thoughts on England selections. Feels to me like they got caught in two minds in regard to the top order and giving young players a chance. Burns walking back in was always likley with both the others struggling, but still feels dodgy. Sibley obviously did just enough in the last test to get ahead of Crawley, but dont expect his dropping to be a long term thing. So far that piece seems to be panning out OK.

Lawrence at 3 though seems like a poisoned chalice and somewhere they couldve moved Crawley to. Guess there was a desire to avoid having too stodgy a top 3 again, which has merits. And then maybe Pope wouldve been the natural player to put there, but not straight in off the back of a long injury lay off.

Doesnt feel quite like their natural or first choice top 7, but on paper pretty strong and its going well so far.

Down the order seems Stokes is well enough to bowl the modest number of overs that Currans spot wouldve had and we've ended up with pretty much what was expected. No doubt Broads having a massive sulk about Anderson not getting in ahead of him but the big thing is avoiding the trap of going back to Moeen to get 6 bowlers in. Still a strong chance that might happen later in the series if Bess and Leach aren't doing the business, but would've been absolute madness to go straight in with him.

As it is Channel 4 haven't broken cricket yet in spite of not employ a racist misogynist to tell us about how cricket was played 50 years ago.  

Crawley injured himself slipping over on the floor outside the changing room yesterday - sprained wrist so out of the first two matches. Suspect he'd have retained his place otherwise, so a choice between Lawrence and Pope for the last batting spot. Otherwise, I think it's about as good a team as England could pick, especially given we will be rotating the seamers.

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 9:58 am

Gooseberry wrote:Late to the party here ... quick thoughts on England selections. Feels to me like they got caught in two minds in regard to the top order and giving young players a chance. Burns walking back in was always likley with both the others struggling, but still feels dodgy. Sibley obviously did just enough in the last test to get ahead of Crawley, but dont expect his dropping to be a long term thing. So far that piece seems to be panning out OK.

Lawrence at 3 though seems like a poisoned chalice and somewhere they couldve moved Crawley to. Guess there was a desire to avoid having too stodgy a top 3 again, which has merits. And then maybe Pope wouldve been the natural player to put there, but not straight in off the back of a long injury lay off.

Doesnt feel quite like their natural or first choice top 7, but on paper pretty strong and its going well so far.

Down the order seems Stokes is well enough to bowl the modest number of overs that Currans spot wouldve had and we've ended up with pretty much what was expected. No doubt Broads having a massive sulk about Anderson not getting in ahead of him but the big thing is avoiding the trap of going back to Moeen to get 6 bowlers in. Still a strong chance that might happen later in the series if Bess and Leach aren't doing the business, but would've been absolute madness to go straight in with him.

As it is Channel 4 haven't broken cricket yet in spite of not employ a racist misogynist to tell us about how cricket was played 50 years ago.  

Guess you've been out of touch lately ,  goose ?  Reason Crawley isn't playing is he broke his wrist at practice the other day.

I think most of us are happy with the XI they've picked , given who was available. Broad/Anderson rotation is a given , I think.  They might have flipped a coin for this one...

Ha...I see Dummy beat me to it...

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:02 am

dummy_half wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Late to the party here ... quick thoughts on England selections. Feels to me like they got caught in two minds in regard to the top order and giving young players a chance. Burns walking back in was always likley with both the others struggling, but still feels dodgy. Sibley obviously did just enough in the last test to get ahead of Crawley, but dont expect his dropping to be a long term thing. So far that piece seems to be panning out OK.

Lawrence at 3 though seems like a poisoned chalice and somewhere they couldve moved Crawley to. Guess there was a desire to avoid having too stodgy a top 3 again, which has merits. And then maybe Pope wouldve been the natural player to put there, but not straight in off the back of a long injury lay off.

Doesnt feel quite like their natural or first choice top 7, but on paper pretty strong and its going well so far.

Down the order seems Stokes is well enough to bowl the modest number of overs that Currans spot wouldve had and we've ended up with pretty much what was expected. No doubt Broads having a massive sulk about Anderson not getting in ahead of him but the big thing is avoiding the trap of going back to Moeen to get 6 bowlers in. Still a strong chance that might happen later in the series if Bess and Leach aren't doing the business, but would've been absolute madness to go straight in with him.

As it is Channel 4 haven't broken cricket yet in spite of not employ a racist misogynist to tell us about how cricket was played 50 years ago.  

Crawley injured himself slipping over on the floor outside the changing room yesterday - sprained wrist so out of the first two matches. Suspect he'd have retained his place otherwise, so a choice between Lawrence and Pope for the last batting spot. Otherwise, I think it's about as good a team as England could pick, especially given we will be rotating the seamers.


Ah totally missed out on that, really been out of the loop the past week! Bad luck for the lad. Personally though I do think Englands best top 3 could be Burns, Sibley and Pope for this series...Pope just needing a bit of time in the middle under his belt. dependant how Lawrence goes we could see that swap for the second or third tests. Overall don't think theres any great rush at this point to get Crawley back in given his struggles in SL, but long term he has to be well in Englands plans.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:06 am

Turning into outright dominance from Root and Sibley now. Both scoring freely and both untroubled so far in this session. Root deploying the sweep shot superbly.

New ball still 8 overs away.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:11 am

Duty281 wrote:Turning into outright dominance from Root and Sibley now. Both scoring freely and both untroubled so far in this session. Root deploying the sweep shot superbly.

New ball still 8 overs away.

Getting further with all the no balls!

Lots of extras piling up, if these two can stay till close really will be a great day for England. Certainly as a good a start as we could've hoped for, and really so far as good a winter tour as we have seen from them in as long as I can remember. Long way to go of course in this series.

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:12 am

Might be Root's lucky day... Just collected a free four runs in overthrows Smile

Was probably worth a shy ...Root won't mind. Two hundred up thumbsup

The looming new ball might be a big factor in this match...

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:25 am

Remarkable number of no balls. Some of them pretty tight but it's still been unusual - especially from the spinner.

Partnership up to 151 thumbsup Washington and Nadeem both expensive : new ball can't come soon enough for India. England just need to stay steady.


And still this odd field for Nadeem to Sibley with the short covers Headscratch Analysts must have seen something I haven't...

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Post by dummy_half Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:30 am

Duty281 wrote:Turning into outright dominance from Root and Sibley now. Both scoring freely and both untroubled so far in this session. Root deploying the sweep shot superbly.

New ball still 8 overs away.

Not sure Sibley ever scores freely other than in his dreams, but I'll take a steady 80 from an opener in the first innings of the series, especially when there is some fluency from the other end. Having said that, Sibley just scored 7 in 3 balls...

Hundred for Root - he'll have to wait longer for that 50th Test 50 ;-)

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Post by Duty281 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:30 am

India's fielding has been poor today. Misfield from Gill there costs a boundary.

Century for Root in just 164 balls. What an innings and what a start to the year he's having. clap clap clap

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:31 am

Hundred for Root Yahoo

Way to celebrate your hundredth match . Three of 'em in a row too.

Just what England wanted to start the tour. Needs to go on now though...

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Post by JDizzle Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:31 am

Excited to hear why this one doesn’t count! Well batted Root - 20th Test hundred and third in a row. Excellent stuff

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:32 am

Weird, he's scored a 100 but I was told he could only do it against the lesser sides because he's a minnow basher? Headscratch
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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:33 am

Duty281 wrote:India's fielding has been poor today. Misfield from Gill there costs a boundary.

Century for Root in just 164 balls. What an innings and what a start to the year he's having. clap clap clap

Yes not the first outfield error today. Another area where they really miss Jadeja .

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:33 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Scoring runs against one off the worst attacks in test history - which is statistically correct as Lakmal, Perera and Embuldeniya average over 35.
Average batsman vs terrible bowlers

Can we all just admire this post?

Roots second fifty came at almost a run a ball, when I used to criticise his ability to convert it was because this is how damn good he actually is. Sibley is being left behind in the scoring but has played a blinding innings himself so far. It's not the most challenging pitch but shows the value of top order solidity.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:34 am

alfie wrote:Might be Root's lucky day... Just collected a free four runs in overthrows Smile
.

See not just pathetic, lucky too

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:36 am

JDizzle wrote:Excited to hear why this one doesn’t count! Well batted Root - 20th Test hundred and third in a row. Excellent stuff

No doubt Nathaniel will be on later to point out it is a flat track and India are not really trying or something Smile

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:38 am

I want you all to know that when I type rude and aggressive comments like this, I get a bit aroused and then do a special wee.

Now my special antenna is down, I don’t feel as angry.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:39 am

So almost 80 overs in and no wides, no byes, no leg byes but 11 no balls - Extras going for a Sibley-esque performance of concentrating on one area.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:41 am

New ball time. Time enough for a ten-over burst before stumps. India need at least two wickets before stumps.

Actually, they're not taking it yet. Odd.

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Post by JDizzle Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:42 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Even pathetic, talentless players can fluke centuries on a dead pitch. Hardly an achievement.
And for you imbeciles out there, coward Root hasn’t scored ‘3 consecutive centuries’. Maybe learn the meaning of words before trying to sound like you have intelligence.

Oh excellent.

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Post by superflyweight Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:42 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Even pathetic, talentless players can fluke centuries on a dead pitch. Hardly an achievement.
And for you imbeciles out there, coward Root hasn’t scored ‘3 consecutive centuries’. Maybe learn the meaning of words before trying to sound like you have intelligence.

Oooh, someone got out of the wrong side of bed this morning. Cheer up princess, it's almost the weekend.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:43 am

How do the Indian fans think VK has captained the team today? Personally I think that he has missed a couple of opportunities to pile pressure on the English batsmen when he could have done by his bowling changes. Some bowling changes have relieved any pressure building on the English batsmen. I am probably way off the mark but that is how I feel.

Well done to Root on another ton clap
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:45 am

JDizzle wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Even pathetic, talentless players can fluke centuries on a dead pitch. Hardly an achievement.
And for you imbeciles out there, coward Root hasn’t scored ‘3 consecutive centuries’. Maybe learn the meaning of words before trying to sound like you have intelligence.

Oh excellent.

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:49 am

Not sure if you chaps are getting the same commentary as we are ? (mostly Indian : Gavaskar , Kartiik , etc , plus a few English guests)

Someone made a good point earlier (was it Knight ?) that the captain/coach relationship Root has with Silverwood seems to have enabled him to play in a more relaxed manner than he was wont to follow when working with Bayliss. While Morgan in the ODI had no problem. Different personalities can make for very different rates of effectiveness in partnerships in sporting teams - which makes the choice of leaders always interesting , if not always predictable in advance.
Whatever ; this seems to be working.

New ball at last. Root greets it with a lovely cover drive for four thumbsup

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:50 am

Runs flowing at the end here, India look ragged. Huge psychological points to England, India will need another pep talk like the one they got after the first test of the last series!

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:50 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Even pathetic, talentless players can fluke centuries on a dead pitch. Hardly an achievement.
And for you imbeciles out there, coward Root hasn’t scored ‘3 consecutive centuries’. Maybe learn the meaning of words before trying to sound like you have intelligence.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Right on cue. Back in your cave , Nathaniel...

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:51 am

Roots average now over 50.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 05 Feb 2021, 10:53 am

Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

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Post by dummy_half Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:00 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

As far as I can see, Cook and Boycott are the only others to average over 45.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:02 am

alfie wrote:

Right on cue.  Back in your cave , Nathaniel...

I would actually like to know why Nathaniel deems Root a coward if I am honest. Headscratch
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:04 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

He also has the most 50+ scores in test cricket of any batsman by their 100th test too - https://twitter.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1356939240668553217
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:12 am

eirebilly wrote:
alfie wrote:

Right on cue.  Back in your cave , Nathaniel...

I would actually like to know why Nathaniel deems Root a coward if I am honest. Headscratch

Because he had a bad tour to Australia against the quicks and has never really been great against short pitched bowling. Theres some valid criticism that its his weak point, but thats also true of Don Bradman.

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Post by Soul Requiem Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Roots average now over 50.

Going to go out on a limb and say he's the only English batsman to ever average over 50 in his 100th test.

He also has the most 50+ scores in test cricket of any batsman by their 100th test too - https://twitter.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1356939240668553217

Average company he's in there.

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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:17 am

Whilst Root has been the class act here and is clearly a cut above any England bat in recent times when it comes to playing spin its bigger positive news for England to see Sibley build on his previous innings and make a big score. Even Burns making a decent start on his return to cricket was about as good as you couldve expected given he hasnt played at all for so long and wasnt exactly secure as a test bat.

Lawrence aside England should be elbow bumping heartliy off the back of today. (Pending total collapse in the last overs of the day)

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:18 am

Cramp troubling Root late in the day. Though it didn't stop him hitting his first six... Probably will cut down the quick singles.

Hopefully means he won't get run out in the last over this evening Smile

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Post by eirebilly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:20 am

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
alfie wrote:

Right on cue.  Back in your cave , Nathaniel...

I would actually like to know why Nathaniel deems Root a coward if I am honest. Headscratch

Because he had a bad tour to Australia against the quicks and has never really been great against short pitched bowling. Theres some valid criticism that its his weak point, but thats also true of Don Bradman.

Ok, but I do not see how that makes him a coward...
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Post by guildfordbat Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:21 am

alfie wrote:Not sure if you chaps are getting the same commentary as we are ? (mostly Indian : Gavaskar , Kartiik , etc , plus a few English guests)

Someone made a good point earlier (was it Knight ?) that the captain/coach relationship Root has with Silverwood seems to have enabled him to play in a more relaxed manner than he was wont to follow when working with Bayliss. While Morgan in the ODI had no problem. Different personalities can make for very different rates of effectiveness in partnerships in sporting teams - which makes the choice of leaders always interesting , if not always predictable in advance.
Whatever ; this seems to be working.

New ball at last. Root greets it with a lovely cover drive for four thumbsup

Hi Alfie - yep, I heard that earlier. Also thought it was a good point. Pretty sure it was made by Knight. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea here but I like him. Often perceptive and, like Key, he's got good knowledge of the English county game which too often passes the other pundits by and still has some relevance when considering the make up of the Test side. Infinitely better than Butcher anyway.

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:22 am

I see we are still playing a fair bit of overtime to complete the 90 overs... Which is slightly odd given all the spin that's been bowled.

Guess it has been hot. One more over left...

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:26 am

Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
alfie wrote:

Right on cue.  Back in your cave , Nathaniel...

I would actually like to know why Nathaniel deems Root a coward if I am honest. Headscratch

Because he had a bad tour to Australia against the quicks and has never really been great against short pitched bowling. Theres some valid criticism that its his weak point, but thats also true of Don Bradman.

I think he'll bat well here later this year.

As you know... he's even more accomplished now and seems even more confident and self assured at the crease. Pitches here seem to have softened up a bit too and he's more familiar with the playing conditions down here having had a stint with one of the local BBL franchises. A home away from home if you will. Also - I think he has a point to prove and will go about it in his own quietly achieving way.

Oh dear... poor Dom Sibley. He really deserved a ton today. His powers of concentration and application at the crease have been excellent all day.


Last edited by Pal Joey on Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dummy_half Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:28 am

Were a couple of overs short in the first session, got through 30 between lunch and tea, so it's been a slow down in the last session.

Oh Dom...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:28 am

Gah what a shame for Sibley, but a fantastic delivery in the last over of the day by the ever impressive and threatening Bumrah.
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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:28 am

Aargh...Sibley out at the death ...

Pity. Deserved a hundred , slightly spoiled an excellent day for England but they'll take 263/3. Good bowling from Bumrah (pick of the bowlers )

Root's day though.

I will leave you fellows to look after the restart in the morning and hope to get home from playing to find England still batting around tea Smile

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Post by Duty281 Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:29 am

Well India have something to take into tomorrow, at least. Bumrah probably deserved another. Hard on Sibley who showed tremendous application for nearly six and a half hours.

England must convert this position into 500 minimum. A collapse tomorrow will let India back in on a great batting track.

But the day belongs to Root. clap clap clap

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Post by KP_fan Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:31 am

The pitch was placid.....which is one or two levels flatter than flat
BUT....you still need to apply yourself and score BIG.
And Root & Sibley did that...and Eng  need to bat two more sessions at least perhaps two and a half and get 500 and dominate from here.

The pitch does not appear like the usual Chennai pitch seen in late 1990s and in this millenium .....more like the old Madras pitch of 1980s which was really flat where Dean Jones cracked a double hundred in 1985 tied test....as did Gatting and Fowler in 1984...in a famous English win when Neil Foster bowled the spell of his life....getting movement with the help of sea breeze.

India need to seriously think of safety first and let it cross their mind that if not careful, they could LOSE this test.

while credit due to Eng.....what Ind did not get right

1-Kohli made his last minute surprise selection screw-up....leaving out wrist spinner Kuldeep who could have gotten more out of the pitch.
Shahbaz with huge reputation , looked either past his peak or badly out of rhythm...bowling ODI lengths and trajectory &missing was his loopy drift

2- Kohli wasn't patient .,..tried too hard to get the wickets..needed to bowl one side ( leg side) and choke the English batsman.
Didn't use Ishant as much and in long spells as he should have.
Ishant can bowl long spells..is fresh and gets reverse.

3- Indians haven't done their homework on Root...allowed him too many runs on sweep

From here only if Eng crumble to 400ish all out is when India has a sniff
If Eng get 450+ and closer to 500ish..then they would have shut India out.
A  draw would be India's best case...and win lurking in the air scenario for Eng
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Post by Gooseberry Fri 05 Feb 2021, 11:32 am

Blame me for the Sibley wicket! Shame too as he was about to get his own average over 40 .


Root in Aus, he was better on his second tour and the attitude hes taking to constantly working on his game could see him get that monkey off his back. There was some talk from the pundits that the work he's done on his movement on the crease that's paying dividends this winter should also apply in sorting out his play off the back foot too. We will see anyway, but as its tands being the best English batsman of his generation and best English player of spin in modern cricket isnt a bad place to be.

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