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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Post by alfie Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:37 am

First topic message reminder :

Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:25 am

Moeen has been utter tosh and it's hardly unexpected, the Kohli ball was in all honesty a fluke.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:31 am

As for the selection matters, sad to see Bumrah rested, but the lad really needed after that effort in the last game. And they do need to rap him in cotton...
Kuldeep for Nadeem, right thing one test too late. Axar for Sundar though, must say I am not very convinced. Patel, as KPF observed earlier, isn't really the kind of bowler you would look to if you are thinking wickets. His batting is nothing to get too excited about either. Can play some shots, but not one for big innings, clearly a position up at 7.
They say Axar is the stand in for Jadeja. But he's more like a poor man's Jadeja on a bad day.

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:38 am

Hundred stand up , this pair in control. England look a bit flat : Moeen just not offering anything , nothing there for Broad ...Leach has bowled quite well but even he has dropped short too often , allowing risk free runs on the off side. All looks too easy for India at present.
Stone back to have another crack , no reverse seen yet though. Might be time for Root to have a twirl himself ?

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:42 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Moeen has been utter tosh and it's hardly unexpected, the Kohli ball was in all honesty a fluke.

Well that was the thing I found strangest , about the justification for bringing Moeen in for Bess . They spoke of Bess lacking control : but on what planet has Moeen ever offered control ? Talk about hope over experience...

Tea. 189/3. Emphatically India's session. England need a big last session.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:44 am

Fine session for India after managing to lose the first session after staying in control for most of it.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:45 am

Good session for India
Eng over rate a bit slow, means we will have a long 3rd session with 37 overs
Eng.missing a 5th bowler as Stokes has not bowled much ...Fitness problem ?
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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:50 am

When looking at the first session, it was a complete misjudgement from Gill to a good delivery from Stone. As for Cheteshwar Pujara, was a bit of a bad shot, he does play one of them every 2 years or so and unfortunately today was one such day, good ball from Leach, but an uncharacteristic shot from Pujara. As for Kohli, very poor from the Indian captain, he had just come in, it wasn't too far away from lunch. No need to play such an expansive shot early on. And even after all that, if the ball had not come in a couple of miles, he would probably have survived!
Along with Rohit, Ajinkya Rahane has also played well. Was under a bit of pressure coming into this game, didn't score a lot of runs prior to and after MCG, and isn't as comfortable playing spin as the rest of them in the batting lineup. But given a pressure situation, Rahane has done a good job.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:52 am

KP_fan wrote: Good session for India
Eng over rate a bit slow, means we will have a long 3rd session with 37 overs
Eng.missing a 5th bowler as Stokes has not bowled much ...Fitness problem ?
After Anderson, Stokes is England's best subcontinent seamer. They need him to bowl more than he has done so far in the series. Didn't seem fully fit here, or even during the first test.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:56 am

As for the pitch, a much better track. The pitch for the first test was a pathetic road for first 2 days, offering nothing and even when the bowlers managed to reverse the ball, because of the terrible slowness of the track, the batsmen were able to adjust. This one has offered some turn from the beginning. Though the pitch has settled a bit after lunch and isn't offering as much with the older ball, bowlers aren't confronted with a graveyard of a track for sure.
Think 350 would be a good score, and India still, is a fair way away from that, and after these 2 and Pant, there is not much batting left.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:58 am

Perfect session for India. England need some magic from somewhere.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:59 am

alfie wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Moeen has been utter tosh and it's hardly unexpected, the Kohli ball was in all honesty a fluke.

Well that was the thing I found strangest , about the justification for bringing Moeen in for Bess . They spoke of Bess lacking control : but on what planet has Moeen ever offered control ? Talk about hope over experience...

Tea. 189/3. Emphatically India's session.  England need a big last session.

I'd hoped the selectors had moved on from him especially with Silverwood taking over but it's more of the same. He's neither good enough as a batsman or bowler in any format but still we him selected. Once upon a time he justified his selection but that was many years ago.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:05 am

msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote: Good session for India
Eng over rate a bit slow, means we will have a long 3rd session with 37 overs
Eng.missing a 5th bowler as Stokes has not bowled much ...Fitness problem ?
After Anderson, Stokes is England's best subcontinent seamer. They need him to bowl more than he has done so far in the series. Didn't seem fully fit here, or even during the first test.

He preserves.himself and reserves  his.140kph stuff spells for IPL
If he is not bowling full spells at full potential.
To me Stokes averaging 37 with bat would not be an automatic selection
But I guess in Eng he has a larger than life aura since that world cup final and hedingley test chase in Ashes
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Post by guildfordbat Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:08 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

...
I am going to use a Guildford-esque term, and refer to the bookies still having India as decent favourites to outright win the series, despite being 1-0 down with three tests to go. You don't see many poor bookies, isn't that right Guildford Wink

But mainly, it's just that I think India are still a very formidable outfit at home (they are the #1 side in the world after all), and England very much always had the firepower/world class players to produce a test win here, which is imo a great achievement even if they do go onto lose the series 3-1. Maybe they can produce more than one, but in that India stat going round that they had "only lost 1 of their last 35 home tests since the 2012 England tour", it is omitting that they won 28 of those 35 tests. It's incredibly rare for them to lose, rare for them to draw a home test...I don't think one result, where for as well as England played (and rightly deserve plaudits), should massively change or alter expectations for how we think the series could go. It wouldn't shock me to wake up on Sunday morning (day 2 of the next test) to see India 476-3 at lunch.  

..

Morning folks - going back to Olly's post on Tuesday, the bookies aren't banking their winnings yet but they won't be overly worried at this stage.

India 476-3 at lunch tomorrow still remains a possibility for the time being. I trust though that is being unduly pessimistic. Sir Geoffrey's two wickets in the next half hour or so would give the game a different look.

Caught up with the brief highlights over tea and saw live some of the middle session. Liked Stone once more, I've seen very little of him but was impressed by his performance in an ODI a couple of years ago. Decent control from Leach. Not so from Moeen.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:10 am

Rohit needs to reorganize
Looking jittery
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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:12 am

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote: Good session for India
Eng over rate a bit slow, means we will have a long 3rd session with 37 overs
Eng.missing a 5th bowler as Stokes has not bowled much ...Fitness problem ?
After Anderson, Stokes is England's best subcontinent seamer. They need him to bowl more than he has done so far in the series. Didn't seem fully fit here, or even during the first test.

He preserves.himself and reserves  his.140kph stuff spells for IPL
If he is not bowling full spells at full potential.
To me Stokes averaging 37 with bat would not be an automatic selection
But I guess in Eng he has a larger than life aura since that world cup final and hedingley test chase in Ashes

Averages near enough 50 over the past couple of years so best not to judge a player on long term numbers. Rahane averages 42 for instance but has been in rotten form at home for a while now.

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:15 am

After tea sensation...Moeen bowls a maiden !

Stone continues to impress. Nearly had Rahane then , misjudging the bounce.


I hope guildford's worst case scenario is just that !

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:17 am

Since the World Test Championship began, Stokes has played 14 tests and scored over 1200 runs at an average of 53 with four centuries. Added to which he's capable of breaking key partnerships with the ball. That's why he's one of England's first players on the teamsheet. He was actually England's best batter in the World Test Championship until very recently when Root hit a purple patch.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:17 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote: Good session for India
Eng over rate a bit slow, means we will have a long 3rd session with 37 overs
Eng.missing a 5th bowler as Stokes has not bowled much ...Fitness problem ?
After Anderson, Stokes is England's best subcontinent seamer. They need him to bowl more than he has done so far in the series. Didn't seem fully fit here, or even during the first test.

He preserves.himself and reserves  his.140kph stuff spells for IPL
If he is not bowling full spells at full potential.
To me Stokes averaging 37 with bat would not be an automatic selection
But I guess in Eng he has a larger than life aura since that world cup final and hedingley test chase in Ashes

Averages near enough 50 over the past couple of years so best not to judge a player on long term numbers. Rahane averages 42 for instance but has been in rotten form at home for a while now.

Well bowled, KPF, didn't take too long for someone to try and take it on!

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:18 am

alfie wrote:After tea sensation...Moeen bowls a maiden !

Stone continues to impress. Nearly had Rahane then , misjudging the bounce.


I hope guildford's worst case scenario is just that !

Moeen back to normal now as Rahane helps himself to a couple of boundaries.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:22 am

I see even Duty is deceived by the flight and loop on that one.
But seriously, think England really need Stokes here. He has been more impactful than even Broad in the subcontinent. Clearly was the 2nd best seamer last time round in India after Anderson.
Why is it that Root is going off the field now and then? All well with him? Will Stokes as the man in charge on the field, bring himself on?

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:22 am

Msp wrote:Well bowled, KPF, didn't take too long for someone to try and take it on!
Very Happy
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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:24 am

The ball is starting to reverse for Stone. And the guy is quick. Rahane and Rohit need to see his spell through.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:25 am

msp83 wrote:I see even Duty is deceived by the flight and loop on that one.
But seriously, think England really need Stokes here. He has been more impactful than even Broad in the subcontinent. Clearly was the 2nd best seamer last time round in India after Anderson.
Why is it that Root is going off the field now and then? All well with him? Will Stokes as the man in charge on the field, bring himself on?

Apologies, thought you were having an adult conversation.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:26 am

Moeen bowling better after tea. The ball is doing a bit more him as well. Rahane in particular, seems a touch uncomfortable.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:27 am

Half-century for Rahane. Has come at a crucial time for his team.

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:28 am

msp83 wrote:I see even Duty is deceived by the flight and loop on that one.
But seriously, think England really need Stokes here. He has been more impactful than even Broad in the subcontinent. Clearly was the 2nd best seamer last time round in India after Anderson.
Why is it that Root is going off the field now and then? All well with him? Will Stokes as the man in charge on the field, bring himself on?

Bit odd Stokes came on very early (bowled rubbish) and hasn't been seen since. He must not be 100% yet and they don't want to risk him. Would have thought he'd have had another short spell by now.

Root going off for discussions with the brains trust ?

Fifty for Rahane clap

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:30 am

I wish Rahane gets a hundred , Rohit a double and Moeen gets a 6fer for 200 Cool
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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:32 am

Good, battling fifty by an under-pressure Rahane in an under-pressure innings.

England's chances may be fading, currently, but Stone's reputation is presently rising after the 13 overs he's put in.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:37 am

If Stokes is deemed good enuf by Eng to hold on his place as a pure batsman ...And  ain't obligatory for him to bowl... Fair
But that makes Eng quite conservative with only 4 bowlers


Last edited by KP_fan on Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:38 am

Yes, the lad Stone, there is something about him. Does remind one of Fred Flintoff at times.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:39 am

KP_fan wrote:If Stokes is deemed good enuf by Eng to hold on his place as a pure batsman ...And  ain't obligatory for him to bowl... Fair
But that makes Eng quite conservative with only 4 bowlers
And one of that 4 is Moeen Ali. A bit strange...

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Post by king_carlos Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:42 am

Are we saving Leach for the new ball?

The old trope is add two wickets to the score and reassess but this partnership has been so important that India would still be in a good position with two wickets added.

The silver lining for England is that Rohit and Rahane have shown that if you can get in there are runs to be scored on this pitch.

India's attack is dangerous but not infallible as well. The second spinner in Kuldeep who has played very little red ball cricket lately - just the warm-up against Australia A in that last year. A seamer in Siraj playing his first home Test. Then Patel on debut. If batsman can get in and most vitally play Ashwin well then it is possible to score. This pair have batted excellently and England will need their order to do the same it seems.

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Post by king_carlos Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:44 am

Michael Vaughan really is a tediously negative pundit.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:46 am

msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:If Stokes is deemed good enuf by Eng to hold on his place as a pure batsman ...And  ain't obligatory for him to bowl... Fair
But that makes Eng quite conservative with only 4 bowlers
And one of that 4 is Moeen Ali. A bit strange...
Yes Moeen can hold the bat well an that should have encouraged Eng to have another bowler ...Like woakes who can also bat more than a bit
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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:46 am

16 more overs to the new ball...really would like to see Root have a trundle. Need to make something happen and a change might possibly do the trick.
Moeen has nearly reached his century so perhaps once he gets it we might see something different ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 am

Root needs to summon some courage and either get himself or Lawrence on to bowl. Either one could bowl better than the buffet Moeen is serving up. What a horrific selection call that was.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:47 am

This is undoing all the good work of the players in the first test and all because of more myopic decision making.

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Post by JDizzle Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:48 am

Time for a bit of Root or Lawrence I feel. If Stokes can’t bowl. Mix it up at least. Looks like Root is off the field, so some Lawrence?

Been dipping in and out but Moeen has been clearly the poorest of England’s bowlers. But Dom Bess did spend the entirety of the last innings the played bowling full tosses, so I have some empathy with them. It was a tough spot.

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:51 am

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:If Stokes is deemed good enuf by Eng to hold on his place as a pure batsman ...And  ain't obligatory for him to bowl... Fair
But that makes Eng quite conservative with only 4 bowlers
And one of that 4 is Moeen Ali. A bit strange...
Yes Moeen can hold the bat well an that should have encouraged Eng to have another bowler ...Like woakes who can also bat more than a bit

Moeen used to hold a bat pretty well. Not sure how his form is these days. But really , Stokes bowled the overs they needed in the first game ... Four bowlers plus him (and Root) should be ample.

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:52 am

Stokes not bowling is on an issue because Moeen is bowling so badly.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:52 am

An honest spell from Broad, but not much happening for him, and no magic like Anderson.
Root brings himself on. Not a bad move I'd say.

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Post by alfie Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:53 am

Duty281 wrote:Root needs to summon some courage and either get himself or Lawrence on to bowl. Either one could bowl better than the buffet Moeen is serving up. What a horrific selection call that was.

He's heard us , Duty Smile

And beats Rohit first ball...

Generally underbowls himself , I think. Promising over thumbsup

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:56 am

Glad to see Rohit maintaining the discipline even when Root came on. Got beaten first ball, and then decided he'll take his time against the new bowler and quietly played the over out. Usually would take a parttimer as an insult to his ego

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:57 am

Still no Stokes as Broad continues.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:09 am

AU's was docked 4 points in WTC for slow over rate
Not sure how it exactly works
Here is the law

as per Article 16.11. 2 of the ICC World Test Championship playing conditions, a side is penalised two points for each over short.29.12.2020
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Post by JDizzle Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:09 am

Commentators debating should England have played three spinners. Have they watched their second spinners?!

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:18 am

Root is bowling tighter than Moeen, and in his last over, nearly got Rohit. Double spin attack from England with Leach on from the other end, and even with under 10 overs to go for the new ball, no Stokes.
Stumping appeal going up to the 3rd umpire.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:20 am

Looks like England got a rough call there.

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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:20 am

Eng have dropped /lost their wkt taking bowlers in Anderson and Archer
Stokes can't be asked to bowl

That makes Eng significantly weakened as a bowling side
Foakes is a very clean. WK must say
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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 17 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by msp83 Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:21 am

Thought Rohit was lucky to get away with that one.

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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 17 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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