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England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Post by alfie Fri 05 Feb 2021, 5:37 am

First topic message reminder :

Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:07 am

I do see little reason why Gough and Illingworth are unable to officiate in these games, Dharmasena is another option were he willing.

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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:08 am

Another review, thankfully the right call made. Pant survives.

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Post by alfie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:10 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Should note the third umpire, was very very good onfield in the first test. Think it is probably just incompetence and lack of experience using the DRS/review system, which many of these guys probably have never used before.

There is a theory I’ve seen floated a few times about training a batch of third umpires who are third umpires only. Wouldn’t be the worst idea imo, some of the more experienced onfield guys aren’t always great with it

Agree with that thumbsup Both your theory of the reason for the stuff-up , and the specialist idea.

Ashwin gone now ...Good late fightback from England .

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:11 am

Ooftt in real time I thought that was gone I must admit. Pant survives though.

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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:11 am

Root strikes! Ashwin goes. Was looking alright out there and he and Pant were beginning to put together a partnership, but timely intervention from the England skipper.
Can Pant in the company of the lower order push India pass 325?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:12 am

Deserved for Root who's bowled pretty well today.

As voiced before, I don't understand why neutral umpires can't be brought in. The current Bangladesh-West Indies test has Illingworth standing in as an umpire.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:13 am

Pant is box office isn’t he, a joy to watch

England are just about keeping themselves in it, but really that innings from Rohit looks like it is probably going to be the match winning one. Ashwin is going to be absolutely lethal on this
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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:13 am

Axar is reputed to be an all-rounder, Kuldeep is a bowler who can hold a bat particularly in these conditions. But all down to Pant if India are to make this total go beyond 325.
The way the ball is doing things for the spinners who are quickish, I am missing Jadeja all the more. He'd have been a real handful on this track.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:14 am

msp83 wrote:Root strikes! Ashwin goes. Was looking alright out there and he and Pant were beginning to put together a partnership, but timely intervention from the England skipper.
Can Pant in the company of the lower order push India pass 325?
As long as Pant's out there I get the feeling he could push India past 400  Laugh I just never know what's going to happen with Pant. Box office.

A good breakthrough for England.

Would I be right in saying that Patel is a slightly worse batsman than Sundar, Kuldeep a bit better than Nadeem and Siraj a bit of a bunny?

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Post by alfie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:16 am

Root has bowled well. One wicket so far , but has beaten the bat quite a few times. More dangerous than Moeen , I think , despite his two wickets.
One more and the tail is exposed...

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Post by Soul Requiem Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:18 am

Pope has serious balls close in.

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Post by alfie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:23 am

New ball now...Stone to try his luck...

Going to be short of the overs today , despite lots of spin. England have to watch they don't get docked WTC points.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:27 am

msp83 wrote:Axar is reputed to be an all-rounder, Kuldeep is a bowler who can hold a bat particularly in these conditions. But all down to Pant if India are to make this total go beyond 325.
The way the ball is doing things for the spinners who are quickish, I am missing Jadeja all the more. He'd have been a real handful on this track.

Has there been any reports of Jadeja will be back for the final two tests in the Indian media msp/KP_F?
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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:32 am

Pant trying to slow things and ensure we wouldn't have another over in the day, but they are getting another one at the end of it all. Rishabh has, again been mature so far, he should just see this one through without damage.

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Post by JDizzle Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:32 am

Soul Requiem wrote:I do see little reason why Gough and Illingworth are unable to officiate in these games, Dharmasena is another option were he willing.

Illingworth is currently umpiring in Bangladesh. So it’s clearly not a cast iron home umpires only rule.

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Post by alfie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:35 am

Just 88 overs done. India will be much the happier team , at 300/6 , despite losing those late wickets.

England need a quick wrap up tomorrow ; and then to bat out of their skins...

Rohit's Day. OK

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:35 am

king_carlos wrote:
msp83 wrote:Root strikes! Ashwin goes. Was looking alright out there and he and Pant were beginning to put together a partnership, but timely intervention from the England skipper.
Can Pant in the company of the lower order push India pass 325?
As long as Pant's out there I get the feeling he could push India past 400  Laugh I just never know what's going to happen with Pant. Box office.

A good breakthrough for England.

Would I be right in saying that Patel is a slightly worse batsman than Sundar, Kuldeep a bit better than Nadeem and Siraj a bit of a bunny?

The scoreboard and it being the final over might have gone unnoticed by Pant but a good psychological blow for him to bring up 300 at stumps.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:36 am

India's day overall, specifically Rohit's day after a mostly fine innings illustrated with some gorgeous power shots. He and Rahane, who played a solid, workmanlike innings peppered with the odd neat drive, threatened to take the game out of England's reach, but the tourists hit back in isolated bursts to ensure they're still in the test.

I thought Stone and Leach were the best of the bowlers, both perhaps not rewarded justly on the scorecard. Root came in late on and bowled with a good action and rhythm, enough to threaten the Indian batsmen. Broad and Stokes (for all we saw) made little impact. Moeen's bowling was mostly dreadful, I fail to see why he has been brought back when his test career should have ended nearly two years ago. I only hope he can redeem himself somewhat with some lower-order runs.

I don't buy into predictions of doom at this stage. Yes, it's tough to bat out there, but against a softer ball you can make runs and play some shots, and England have some quality batsmen in their ranks. Need to stop India getting to 350 tomorrow and build from there.

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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:39 am

So 300-6 at stumps on day one. On this track, that is bat and ball having something to show for. India would be the happier side, they have the runs on the board, 300 of them, on a promising track that won't give batsmen too many free runs.
India would be hoping Pant and the lower order can push the total pass 350 before Ashwin, Kuldeep and the debutant Axar can get down to work.
England would hope for a quick early wicket tomorrow morning, and then there won't be much batting left, if they can bowl India out under 330, and survive the new ball without too much damage, Rohit and Rahane showed its a pitch where they still can score runs.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:44 am


Rishab's attacking 33 has I think made it decisively India day...there is a lot in the pitch for spinners...just that Indian batsmen handled spin well...and unlike last test here Eng's seamers did not get any reverse.

Axar averages 36 in FC cricket and can be counted for 20 to 30 odd......and Kuldeep can also get a 10 odd runs
India would be hoping to get to 350 and that should be a good total to control the game from

Eng missed a bowler who could reverse the ball ...and their batters will have a difficult job ahead tomm
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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:47 am

guildfordbat wrote:The scoreboard and it being the final over might have gone unnoticed by Pant but a good psychological blow for him to bring up 300 at stumps.
Agreed there guildford. Scoring 300 in a day on that pitch is an excellent effort. Rohit the difference today. He was superb.

Definitely India's day overall. First session fairly even maybe a touch in England's favour, second session decidedly India's, third session fairly even probably slightly in India's favour.

It's a tough batting conditions but if players get in they can still score on this wicket. England will need to knock these last 4 wickets over swiftly tomorrow morning and someone to play a similar quality of innings to Rohit to stay in the game.

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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:48 am

guildfordbat wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
msp83 wrote:Root strikes! Ashwin goes. Was looking alright out there and he and Pant were beginning to put together a partnership, but timely intervention from the England skipper.
Can Pant in the company of the lower order push India pass 325?
As long as Pant's out there I get the feeling he could push India past 400  Laugh I just never know what's going to happen with Pant. Box office.

A good breakthrough for England.

Would I be right in saying that Patel is a slightly worse batsman than Sundar, Kuldeep a bit better than Nadeem and Siraj a bit of a bunny?

The scoreboard and it being the final over might have gone unnoticed by Pant but a good psychological blow for him to bring up 300 at stumps.
KC, even Pant doesn't seem to know what can happen with him. Sometimes, he knowing his capabilities a bit closer, would be better for himself and the team, the lad can really play test cricket. Showed lot more maturity and game awareness in this innings despite that crunching blow to get the team to 300 in the last over. There is a noticable change in both him and Rohit in this innings. Rohit could get a hundred as a result. How much more can Rishabh get?

And as for the rest of the batting order, yes, Axar not as good as Washington with the bat though Washi's batting wasn't something I was too hopeful about when he was drafted in, particularly since he didn't bat a lot in FC cricket in recent times. Axar has played more FC cricket, and hasn't produced many substantial knocks.
Kuldeep is a bowler, but he has an FC hundred, and can hang around usually. Ishant usually would give you 200 percent effort with the bat, and can be trusted to try hard to hang around. Siraj? Has to be a top contender for the opening position in Chris Martin XI alongside Courtney Walsh!!

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:49 am

I have a new highlight for the day. Agnew sounding exasperated at Vaughan whinging and cutting him off mid-sentence whilst Vaughan took it on himself to talk listeners through his tweet so far today.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 13 Feb 2021, 11:55 am

Struggle to see anything but an india win from here on, a magnificent knock from Rohit ably supported by Rahane with a dogged effort. Moeen not great, not Broad’s finest day, Leach and Stone bowled well albeit not huge amounts to show for it for either. Happy for Stone, not sure his talent has ever been in doubt, just keeping him on the field for literally two games in a row at times. He’s surely one they’ll want to take to Australia in the winter, if he is fit

Did mention pre game that I was worried about Stokes’s fitness to bowl, and he clearly isn’t fully healthy. That middle session a good example of where a fully fit Stokes was needed imo, a partnership breaker/short stuff spell was needed when Rohit was going. Hopefully it’s a build up thing and he’ll be firing come the third test

If Root was getting it to spit and spin with a 76 over old ball in that last session...then I dread to think what playing Ashwin will be like. He’ll be like a kid at Christmas tomorrow morning!
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Post by eirebilly Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:04 pm

Cracking days play. England are not out of this but i think that they will need early wickets tomorrow morning and try to get at least 240+ for only 6 down.

Really thought that the stumping was out myself... Ben Foakes has been excellent behind the stumps clap
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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 12:34 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If Root was getting it to spit and spin with a 76 over old ball in that last session...then I dread to think what playing Ashwin will be like. He’ll be like a kid at Christmas tomorrow morning!
I think the pace Root was bowling was key to that on this surface as well. Mo was putting revs on the ball but when he landed them at 85ish kph the spin was usually quite slow - with a few exceptions and one of them being memorable. Root does under bowl himself sometimes in my opinion.

One of Ashwin's great weapons is his flight which might not be quite as lethal on this wicket. If his carrom ball starts turning big then Ashwin is usually in the game anyway though. He's already such a good bowler just with his accuracy and off spinner. Throw in the carrom ball turning the other way and it's very tough for any batsman.

Whilst it is a tough batting wicket I don't think it's yet so terrible that batsman can't score runs if they get in and bat well. Some wickets get so bad that no matter how well a batsman plays he inevitably gets one with his name on it. I don't think this pitch is quite there yet, though it definitely will get there. England's challenge will be applying themselves well enough with the bat tomorrow that this game is still in the balance on day 3.

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Post by alfie Sat 13 Feb 2021, 1:44 pm

Very much India's day , and I reckon if England can come back and win from here (I am discounting any thoughts of a draw) it will be a win to set above last week's fine effort.
Not saying they are totally out of it ; just that it will take a huge performance. Have still to get four wickets and then try to more or less match whatever India scored...in a way , similar to the second game in Galle. Differences being that Ashwin has a better supporting cast than Embuldeniya could call on - and this pitch might be breaking up a lot earlier.
That said , batting against the old ball wasn't near as difficult appeared likely to be from the morning session: if that holds through tomorrow, there might be a window of opportunity for England to put serious runs on the board.
They've proved resilient on this trip. Hopefully tomorrow will see another demonstration of that quality...

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 13 Feb 2021, 1:52 pm

Agree that it's going to be very difficult for England to win from here.
In fact, things could have been a lot worse before two set batsmen rather got themselves out in the evening session.

Really awful stumping review decision. Quite clear that the batsman didn't have anything behind the line. Then the bat-pad-glove decision was wrong, too. Fortunate that neither poor decision cost England very much.


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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 2:06 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
msp83 wrote:Axar is reputed to be an all-rounder, Kuldeep is a bowler who can hold a bat particularly in these conditions. But all down to Pant if India are to make this total go beyond 325.
The way the ball is doing things for the spinners who are quickish, I am missing Jadeja all the more. He'd have been a real handful on this track.

Has there been any reports of Jadeja will be back for the final two tests in the Indian media msp/KP_F?
Olly, the latest reports suggest that Jadeja might end up missing the entire series. Even cricbuz has reported the same, that the injury is healing slower than expected. Real bad loss...
Wonder whether they'll try Hardik for the next game, the D/N test...

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Post by msp83 Sat 13 Feb 2021, 2:14 pm

England's review restored by match referee Javagal Srinath. Anil Chaudhary had a pretty good game on field in the last test. Probably it is innexperience and possible technological issiues that did him in today. Seems Star didn't have a fixed angle camera to provide an offside shot for the Rohit stumping...

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Post by Gooseberry Sat 13 Feb 2021, 5:44 pm

Missed most of the day but nothing massively unexpected was it. India dont quite have a must win position yet, but that could change very quickly if England crumble to their spin trio.

Mo...we could've written that script couldn't we. Drop Bess because he's struggling for consistency and replace him with a player who's never bowled consistently in his career.

Should be an Indian win, but we always expected that batting first regardless of who England had picked.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 13 Feb 2021, 6:02 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Missed most of the day but nothing massively unexpected was it. India dont quite have a must win position yet, but that could change very quickly if England crumble to their spin trio.

Mo...we could've written that script couldn't we. Drop Bess because he's struggling for consistency and replace him with a player who's never bowled consistently in his career.

Should be an Indian win, but we always expected that batting first regardless of who England had picked.
Basically the difference was Rohit batting sublimely with Rahane a very good support act in a potentially match winning partnership. Rohit looked like he was playing on a different wicket.

As a unit I don't think England bowled worse than the first innings of T1. Certainly didn't bowl worse than at times in Sri Lanka. Just a much better batting display against them.

Stone was good throughout. Leach bowled very consistently and wasn't phased by Rohit's aggression as he was by Pant in T1. Broad didn't have much work. On balance I'd say Moeen bowled fewer bad balls than Bess but also fewer good balls, his line was quite good but length was far too inconsistent. Root bowled really well and is suited to the surface.

England will need someone to play an innings of similar stature to Rohit's. That would likely need to come from Root or Stokes.

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:03 am

Yes you have to give full credit to Rohit. That said , I still felt England didn't bowl as well as in the previous game. The lack of scoreboard pressure made a difference of course - big difference batting first from chasing 600 - but on a pitch that really wasn't a road , I felt India were allowed to score too many "easy" runs. Certainly Moeen was the main offender ; but the lack of maidens all round was a bit of a disappointment. Did they get their field settings a bit wrong ? Or did the bowlers not quite hit their marks ?

Whatever : day two ...Leach gets us away...

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:07 am

And Moeen has an immediate break...neat bit of work from Foakes and Axar goes : 301/7

Just what England wanted.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:08 am

More sharp keeping from Foakes and the third umpire gives a stumping. No doubt about that one. Swift start from England.

And now Sharma spoons up an easy chance, Moeen padding his figures nicely.

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:11 am

I wasn't sure about opening with Moeen (new ball still)...

But he's wrecking the innings !

Ishant bunts a filthy full toss straight up in the air and easy catch for Burns...

301/8

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:16 am

Pant ain't hanging about...couple of big swings , one missed , one into the stands ...

Extra runs he may yet add could be important later. More fireworks expected.

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:19 am

Moeen bowling full tosses freely : worked on Ishant but Pant is another matter...

Good fifty for the Indian keeper clap

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:27 am

Really dislike this England tactic. Everyone on the fence , give Pant singles...well so far he's hit two fours and two sixes ...

Just got two wickets for nothing : why not try and get them out ?

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:34 am

Stone back on. Might change things a bit. Spinners can't do anything with Pant , it seems.

Kuldeep might not fancy this...


Edit . Two balls ...one hits him , next he's caught behind. Good change of bowler Smile

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Post by Duty281 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:36 am

Good call to put Stone in. Kuldeep foolishly exposed and Stone does the rest.

Despite a bit of hitting from Pant, I think England will be content enough keeping India below 350 (presuming they do!).

And there we are 329 all out. Let's see if England's batsmen can exceed that, or if it really is the pitch of doom that some have been saying.


Last edited by Duty281 on Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:38 am

And all, out ...Pant left stranded , Stone gets a deserved three wicket haul clap

329 is still a handy score.

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:42 am

Lopsided scorecard. Four ducks , only five men in double figures.

Moeen finished with (an expensive) four wickets. But Stone the standout bowler for me. Think England might have mixed a bit more pace with the spin at various stages yesterday: wonder how India will juggle their attack ?

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:47 am

msp83 wrote:Axar is reputed to be an all-rounder, Kuldeep is a bowler who can hold a bat particularly in these conditions. But all down to Pant if India are to make this total go beyond 325.
The way the ball is doing things for the spinners who are quickish, I am missing Jadeja all the more. He'd have been a real handful on this track.

And it was all down to Pant , indeed. He got very little help from the tail. Just got them past 325.

Think they'd have fancied more from the overnight position; but if you'd offered this at 86/3 yesterday they'd have bitten your hand off.

Game moving on quickly so we should get a very good idea where it's going by close of play tonight...

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:53 am

Burns not lasting much longer than last Monday...at least he didn't lose the review.

Ishant with the perfect start for India thumbsup

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Post by Duty281 Sun 14 Feb 2021, 4:53 am

Tough call on Burns, thought that was going down in real-time, but Indian umpires will give most things India's way in front of a home crowd.

Top opening over from Sharma. Mammoth test for the inexperienced duo at the crease.

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:02 am

Yes Burns might feel a little unlucky to be on the wrong side of umpire's call on that one. But I thought it looked pretty good live. For a moment I thought he wasn't giving it , and then India would have needed the three reds .
Ashwin the other end , which is no surprise. Big test for Sibley and Lawrence , neither of whom have looked too comfortable with the ball spinning early.
Sibley is a very determined chap so hopefully he can play one of his Boycott-ian innings here...won't be easy.

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Post by eirebilly Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:24 am

Savage start for India with England 2 down. I am nervous for Root, he surely must be due a short innings...

England in real trouble here.
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Post by Gooseberry Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:25 am

Better hope Mo can bat his best. So predictable

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Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 5:26 am

Sibley gone ...didn't really need to go through all the drs stuff as he was already walking , it was that obvious.

Lawrence looking all at sea though still there...this could get ugly.

While there's Root , there's hope...

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