The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

+17
dummy_half
Afro
GSC
sirfredperry
Pal Joey
msp83
guildfordbat
KP_fan
king_carlos
JDizzle
eirebilly
Gooseberry
Mind the windows Tino.
Good Golly I'm Olly
Duty281
Soul Requiem
alfie
21 posters

Page 18 of 20 Previous  1 ... 10 ... 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Sun 14 Feb 2021, 9:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Knight thinks they won't enforce the follow on. I'm not so sure.

Still two wickets needed anyway. 22 runs.

As I say I don't mind spinning pitches. I do think this one was a bit extreme : had England batted first I doubt they'd have made 329 ; but they might have made 220 and that would probably have made them favourites.
But essentially I agree :India are in this position because they've bowled a lot better and three or four batsmen played innings that England have not come near to matching. Credit where it is due...

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down


England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:03 pm

Nearly over.

Still give England a 5% chance of winning this, to be fair.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:09 pm

49 to win. With a forty or so minute wait to start.

England should open with Leach and Root, yes? If they can get India 10/3, or something, it could cause a panic.

But it's been another farcical test match, unfortunately.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:09 pm

Counts for nowt in the scheme of things but that was a very fine catch by Pant to finish us off.

guildfordbat

Posts : 15454
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:10 pm

All out 81. Lowest ever for England against India. Just keep plumbing the depths...

One session left. 49 for India to win. Probably should remind them the last time they had a second innings against a pink ball they only made 36 Smile

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:11 pm

386 runs across the four innings in the match...for anybody who can work cricinfo, where does that rank all time in lowest aggregate runs across a match?
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49744
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:All excuses aside its pretty dire from England again.

What would you expect on this pitch, with Axar bowling as well as he is?

One out of 7 batsmen to pass 25 would be a start (ok Foakes still can but looks like he'll run out of partners).

You might fluke a 25 on this, but it's difficult to expect one. 114/14 so far today!

Well that means theres been 4 flukes in the game so far.

Its not easy but really Englands top 7 have let themselves down in this test. The number of wickets is as much a reflection of player failings and the mental disintegration that can lead to across a team (also for India) as it is the conditions. The start of this innings with the Crawley and Bairstow farce cannot be solely excused by it turning like a typical day 5 asian pitch. Even in those conditions a side shouldnt be getting skittled for under 100.

Its not like India did themselves proud either, but the ex players who played under such conditions many times seem unanimous that both sides have let themselves down with the bat today.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:386 runs across the four innings in the match...for anybody who can work cricinfo, where does that rank all time in lowest aggregate runs across a match?

I'd guess there was one in that Australia in SA series about 5 years ago.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by guildfordbat Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:Nearly over.

Still give England a 5% chance of winning this, to be fair.

One out of twenty times on this track we'll skittle India for 40 odd or less. Can't see that, Duty. Can't see it all but as ever admire your optimism.

guildfordbat

Posts : 15454
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:17 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:All excuses aside its pretty dire from England again.

What would you expect on this pitch, with Axar bowling as well as he is?

One out of 7 batsmen to pass 25 would be a start (ok Foakes still can but looks like he'll run out of partners).

You might fluke a 25 on this, but it's difficult to expect one. 114/14 so far today!

Well that means theres been 4 flukes in the game so far.

Its not easy but really Englands top 7 have let themselves down in this test. The number of wickets is as much a reflection of player failings and the mental disintegration that can lead to across a team (also for India) as it is the conditions. The start of this innings with the Crawley and Bairstow farce cannot be solely excused by it turning like a typical day 5 asian pitch. Even in those conditions a side shouldnt be getting skittled for under 100.

Its not like India did themselves proud either, but the ex players who played under such conditions many times seem unanimous that both sides have let themselves down with the bat today.

Just the one fluke. Three 25s were scored yesterday, when the pitch was tough to bat on, but not the complete minefield it is today.

I agree there have been some poor shots (both sides) but the batsmen have been pushed into taking unnaturally aggressive shots because they know this pitch will, sooner rather than later, produce something unplayable.

No pitch should be in this state on the second day. Very bad for the game.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:18 pm

Come on lads, put your heads together and play some T20s on Saturday and Sunday. I was looking forward to some cricket this weekend that wasn’t on very early morning!

JDizzle

Posts : 6440
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:19 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:386 runs across the four innings in the match...for anybody who can work cricinfo, where does that rank all time in lowest aggregate runs across a match?

About 39th lowest, but that includes prematurely abandoned tests due to an unfit pitch/rain-dominated tests.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by dummy_half Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:21 pm

I suggested earlier that perhaps the wicket was getting a little easier, as it was turning more consistently - I was wrong, it's still impossible because some are going at right angles and others that appear no different at release are skidding straight through. In fact the one to get Pope looked to go slightly the wrong way didn't look like a carrom ball or anything).

dummy_half

Posts : 5608
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 50
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by GSC Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:21 pm

Last matches pitch had a lot of overblown criticism.

This one is actually bad
GSC
GSC

Posts : 40863
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 30
Location : Leicester

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Galted Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:23 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:386 runs across the four innings in the match...for anybody who can work cricinfo, where does that rank all time in lowest aggregate runs across a match?

Will be the lowest since the 80s, beating the Aussie-Pakistan game in 2002 when Pakistan made 112 across both innings.
Galted
Galted
Galted
Galted

Posts : 14225
Join date : 2011-10-31
Location : not the wi-fi password

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:24 pm

Lol of course they're going to go off for 40 minutes now because cricket
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49744
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:25 pm

I love cricket. Taking a 40 minute break after 2 overs! What was the point of coming back on?!

Think we can lower England's chances to 0.5%!

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by GSC Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:27 pm

Joe Root opening the bowling on day 2 of a test ticked off the bucketlist
GSC
GSC

Posts : 40863
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 30
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:32 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:All excuses aside its pretty dire from England again.

What would you expect on this pitch, with Axar bowling as well as he is?

One out of 7 batsmen to pass 25 would be a start (ok Foakes still can but looks like he'll run out of partners).

You might fluke a 25 on this, but it's difficult to expect one. 114/14 so far today!

Well that means theres been 4 flukes in the game so far.

Its not easy but really Englands top 7 have let themselves down in this test. The number of wickets is as much a reflection of player failings and the mental disintegration that can lead to across a team (also for India) as it is the conditions. The start of this innings with the Crawley and Bairstow farce cannot be solely excused by it turning like a typical day 5 asian pitch. Even in those conditions a side shouldnt be getting skittled for under 100.

Its not like India did themselves proud either, but the ex players who played under such conditions many times seem unanimous that both sides have let themselves down with the bat today.

Just the one fluke. Three 25s were scored yesterday, when the pitch was tough to bat on, but not the complete minefield it is today.

I agree there have been some poor shots (both sides) but the batsmen have been pushed into taking unnaturally aggressive shots because they know this pitch will, sooner rather than later, produce something unplayable.

No pitch should be in this state on the second day. Very bad for the game.

Im not denying the pitch is a problem but the batting has been poor too. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Its a bit ridiculous to suggest it somehow massively deteriorated overnight and is now fundamentally different to how it was when Rohit (who again is looking more comfortable than Englands batsmen did) made runs.


Clearly no tests should be over in two days, but the batsmen have to carry some responsibility for that. The last test showed England are weak against quality spin, this one just underlined it in red ink and has led to a collective mental meltdown. We also know India are capable of those as witnessed on a perfectly fine pitch in Australia.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:41 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:All excuses aside its pretty dire from England again.

What would you expect on this pitch, with Axar bowling as well as he is?

One out of 7 batsmen to pass 25 would be a start (ok Foakes still can but looks like he'll run out of partners).

You might fluke a 25 on this, but it's difficult to expect one. 114/14 so far today!

Well that means theres been 4 flukes in the game so far.

Its not easy but really Englands top 7 have let themselves down in this test. The number of wickets is as much a reflection of player failings and the mental disintegration that can lead to across a team (also for India) as it is the conditions. The start of this innings with the Crawley and Bairstow farce cannot be solely excused by it turning like a typical day 5 asian pitch. Even in those conditions a side shouldnt be getting skittled for under 100.

Its not like India did themselves proud either, but the ex players who played under such conditions many times seem unanimous that both sides have let themselves down with the bat today.

Just the one fluke. Three 25s were scored yesterday, when the pitch was tough to bat on, but not the complete minefield it is today.

I agree there have been some poor shots (both sides) but the batsmen have been pushed into taking unnaturally aggressive shots because they know this pitch will, sooner rather than later, produce something unplayable.

No pitch should be in this state on the second day. Very bad for the game.

Im not denying the pitch is a problem but the batting has been poor too. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Its a bit ridiculous to suggest it somehow massively deteriorated overnight and is now fundamentally different to how it was when Rohit (who again is looking more comfortable than Englands batsmen did) made runs.


Clearly no tests should be over in two days, but the batsmen have to carry some responsibility for that. The last test showed England are weak against quality spin, this one just underlined it in red ink and has led to a collective mental meltdown. We also know India are capable of those as witnessed on a perfectly fine pitch in Australia.

I'm not sure the batting has been that poor. There's little you can do, as a batsman, on a pitch like this. I agree you with that England are weak against quality spin, but India are not such a team and they lost 5 wickets for 8 runs to England's part-time captain spinner (Joe Root is a full-time test captain)!

The pitch did deteriorate overnight, you can see it with your own eyes. Yesterday it was tough, but just about manageable for the batsmen, today it has been virtually unplayable - 211/13 yesterday, 138/17 today.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 1:58 pm

If the pitch for next week is a copy of this , England can give all the seamers a week off and go in with Leach Bess and one of the reserve spinners.
Not that it will make much difference. They are never going to compete with India on this kind of track. Even if things are less extreme with the red ball.
Hard to see anything but 3-1 to India now so they'll play NZ in the WTC final. Which will simplify things for Australia, who can then concentrate on the white ball stuff in the off season.

Can't complain about the amount of action : but I really would prefer to watch a match that lasts into at least the fourth day...

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by JDizzle Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:06 pm

https://twitter.com/zaltzcricket/status/1364931064343498755?s=21

India need to get the runs in 12.4 overs to make this the shortest Test since WWII.

JDizzle

Posts : 6440
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:10 pm

JDizzle wrote:https://twitter.com/zaltzcricket/status/1364931064343498755?s=21

India need to get the runs in 12.4 overs to make this the shortest Test since WWII.

Should do so , I think. Gill and Rohit don't mess about ; and I think England have basically given up.

28 off four overs ! Will be finished in seven...

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:15 pm

JDizzle wrote:https://twitter.com/zaltzcricket/status/1364931064343498755?s=21

India need to get the runs in 12.4 overs to make this the shortest Test since WWII.

With the Luftwaffe and everything, they had to make tests shorter during the war.

Ah, Root might have one here...no it's over.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:23 pm

We're finished in time for Countdown, lads, small mercies and all that.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:23 pm

I've been working today and following the BBC live text. At first I was furious to have work but once England got in I was pretty relieved.

10 wicket win for India with Rohit smashing a six. Rohit has had two very good Tests on tough wickets that's for sure.

Axar as well. Replacing Jadeja is no mean feat and he has pulled it off.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:23 pm

No drama at all in this fourth innings. India cruising home. Makes a difference when there is no pressure , pitch problems or not.

Axar must be MoTM ...but Rohit wins it with a six - and arguably set up both their two wins by top scoring in the two first innings thumbsup

Ten wicket win for the home team...well done them.

England will probably be wishing this was just a three match series as it is hard to see them coming back from this.

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Guest Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:26 pm

Yeah, no point in the fourth test. England have checked out now, and will just get bent over again. 3-1 series is inevitable

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Soul Requiem Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:26 pm

We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

Soul Requiem

Posts : 5666
Join date : 2019-07-16

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by eirebilly Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:30 pm

I will also admit that the batting has been poorish but for a test to be over in 2 days... That is completely unacceptable and is a very poor advertisement for Test Cricket.

All home countries prepare tracks for their strengths but this is extremely poor.
eirebilly
eirebilly

Posts : 24800
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 51
Location : Milan

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:35 pm

alfie wrote:No drama at all in this fourth innings. India cruising home.  Makes a difference when there is no pressure , pitch problems or not.

Axar must be MoTM ...but Rohit wins it with a six - and arguably set up both their two wins by top scoring in the two first innings thumbsup

Ten wicket win for the home team...well done them.

England will probably be wishing this was just a three match series as it is hard to see them coming back from this.
That's my concern as well. A brutal two losses after such a good start. Not really any changes England can make to the floundering batting lineup either. They have come up wanting playing spin once again. Sibley and Root batting together on T1 D1 feels like a long long time ago.

Bess will return but getting dropped for T2 then left out here won't have helped the lads confidence much. I'd presume that Anderson will be retained and Wood return to complete the bowling lineup alongside Leach. Leach has been bowled better throughout the series which is a slither of good news for England.

Jarrod Kimber (who's YouTube channel is excellent) did an analysis of selection on YouTube before T1 where he sang Axar's praises as a player capable of providing that Jadeja role in home conditions. Axar has certainly stood up.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:35 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

They did all right in Australia. England will have a chance at home ; but I don't think it's going to be easy .

Very disappointing, rather than shameful, I think. They were trying , even after that horrible first day. But they just couldn't cope with Axar and Ashwin on this track.

578...then , what ? 150 , 130, 140, 112 , 81... Or something like that. Not auspicious for the next game...

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:39 pm

Just a reminder that Rohit outscored the entire England second innings for getting out once. It wasnt just the pitch that led to this farce.

There should be questions asked about the pitch but that absolutely shouldnt be the focus in the England dressing room and from the batting coaches. They need to be looking at Rohits approach and seeing how they can integrate that into their own batting plans against spin.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:42 pm

Good point there from Strauss, it’ll certainly open the batsmen’s eyes on the challenge of batting in India. Might not learn the lessons properly now, but some of those could be much better for the experience.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 24079
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 33
Location : Making the Kessel Run

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:44 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia and here, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?


Last edited by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49744
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Just a reminder that Rohit outscored the entire England second innings for getting out once. It wasnt just the pitch that led to this farce.

There should be questions asked about the pitch but that absolutely shouldnt be the focus in the England dressing room and from the batting coaches. They need to be looking at Rohits approach and seeing how they can integrate that into their own batting plans against spin.

Agree 100% there Goose. Rohit is often maligned for his poor moments but when he gets it right he wins matches in all formats.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by GSC Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:46 pm

Pitch was terrible and should bear some investigation, but that doesn't cover up that England have been roundly outplayed twice now.
GSC
GSC

Posts : 40863
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 30
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Dolphin Ziggler Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:47 pm

MOTM a batsman then, which makes sense with the flood of runs

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 24079
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 33
Location : Making the Kessel Run

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:47 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia and here, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?

A draw or an Indian win puts them in the final. England win puts Australia in the final.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Good Golly I'm Olly likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by alfie Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:50 pm

king_carlos wrote:
alfie wrote:No drama at all in this fourth innings. India cruising home.  Makes a difference when there is no pressure , pitch problems or not.

Axar must be MoTM ...but Rohit wins it with a six - and arguably set up both their two wins by top scoring in the two first innings thumbsup

Ten wicket win for the home team...well done them.

England will probably be wishing this was just a three match series as it is hard to see them coming back from this.
That's my concern as well. A brutal two losses after such a good start. Not really any changes England can make to the floundering batting lineup either. They have come up wanting playing spin once again. Sibley and Root batting together on T1 D1 feels like a long long time ago.

Bess will return but getting dropped for T2 then left out here won't have helped the lads confidence much. I'd presume that Anderson will be retained and Wood return to complete the bowling lineup alongside Leach. Leach has been bowled better throughout the series which is a slither of good news for England.

Jarrod Kimber (who's YouTube channel is excellent) did an analysis of selection on YouTube before T1 where he sang Axar's praises as a player capable of providing that Jadeja role in home conditions. Axar has certainly stood up.

Yeah not a lot they can do to improve their lineup , really. Apart from balancing the attack : Rule One : in India , always play at least two spinners. But it's the batting that is the real problem.

Burns and Lawrence were all at sea before : they expected Bairstow to do better after his good form in Sri Lanka but he's had a total 'mare (sending him home for a brief break and then back out didn't seem ideal in the first place and looks worse in hindsight) . Sibley did well in that first game but has been missing ever since. And Pope can't buy a run. So you can't even expect to improve things by shuffling the order either. Might as well leave it the same and hope lightning doesn't strike three times...

Essential problem is that Root is the only true world class bat in the team (Stokes can play great innings ; but he still falls short in terms of consistency.) No instant solutions so just hope they can show some character and at least make a fight of the last match.

alfie

Posts : 16565
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:52 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?
I believe 2-1 gets India to the final.

I think the England vs India series will be really tight. Regardless of chat about the pitches they are a good side and deserved number 1 side in Test cricket. Several of their batsman have scored runs in England before. Bumrah, Ishant, Yadav and Shami are excellent bowlers and Siraj could do well in English conditions.

England will be better at home but their batting is fragile regardless of conditions so they are susceptible to quality seam bowling and India have quality seamers at their disposal.

My worry is that England will see these pitches as vindication of producing green tops such as the Lord's Test against Ireland when India return in the summer. That thinking will just lead to more Test cricket where the pitch is the talking point rather than the players, sadly.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:54 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Just a reminder that Rohit outscored the entire England second innings for getting out once. It wasnt just the pitch that led to this farce.

There should be questions asked about the pitch but that absolutely shouldnt be the focus in the England dressing room and from the batting coaches. They need to be looking at Rohits approach and seeing how they can integrate that into their own batting plans against spin.

Rohit didn't make much in the first innings today, most of his runs were made yesterday against the seamers or in the pressure-free second innings knock.

Very few batsmen in the world can bat like Rohit, England will be better pushed to learn how to use their feet to the spinners.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by GSC Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:57 pm

With India 2-1 up I guess we'll probably get a road next week
GSC
GSC

Posts : 40863
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 30
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 2:58 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

England should be flattered that India have had to resort to preparing unfit pitches twice in a row after notching up the first win. Something India didn't have to resort to in 2016.

Wonder if we'll get a road for the next test? India might not want to throw up three dodgy pitches in a row, and a dull draw gets them in the final.

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:00 pm

alfie wrote:Yeah not a lot they can do to improve their lineup , really. Apart from balancing the attack : Rule One : in India , always play at least two spinners. But it's the batting that is the real problem.

Burns and Lawrence were all at sea before : they expected Bairstow to do better after his good form in Sri Lanka but he's had a total 'mare (sending him home for a brief break and then back out didn't seem ideal in the first place and looks worse in hindsight) . Sibley did well in that first game but has been missing ever since. And Pope can't buy a run. So you can't even expect to improve things by shuffling the order either. Might as well leave it the same and hope lightning doesn't strike three times...

Essential problem is that Root is the only true world class bat in the team (Stokes can play great innings ; but he still falls short in terms of consistency.)  No instant solutions so just hope they can show some character and at least make a fight of the last match.
Hindsight's a wonderful thing but England might have been shrewd to have Keaton Jennings on tour in case of the incumbents being this out of form. He isn't a long term solution in any way but can bat against spin that's for sure. Had England done that then my feelings when the squad were named would have been that it's negative thinking though so definitely talking with 20/20 hindsight.

Familiar problems of a batting lineup propped up by Root and occasional Stokes brilliance as you say. The selectors will be desperate for some of the under pressure batsman to get county runs early in the summer to make selection for the NZ series a bit easier.

I still firmly believe that Pope is a Test batsman and will come good but his footwork looks uncharacteristically shot at the moment. It's a high pressure series for a young player with too little cricket under his belt.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by GSC Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:01 pm

I doubt we'll get brutal pitches back home mainly because the hosts will want 5 days of revenues after the last year tbh
GSC
GSC

Posts : 40863
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 30
Location : Leicester

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Soul Requiem Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia and here, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?

We'll have to wait and see. It will be a rejigged batting order in England that's for sure and a lot will depend on Kohli, the rest of the batting line up play swing about as well as England play extreme spin.

Anderson would love to see Gill and Rohit opening in England with Pujara at three.

Soul Requiem

Posts : 5666
Join date : 2019-07-16

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:17 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?
I believe 2-1 gets India to the final.

I think the England vs India series will be really tight. Regardless of chat about the pitches they are a good side and deserved number 1 side in Test cricket. Several of their batsman have scored runs in England before. Bumrah, Ishant, Yadav and Shami are excellent bowlers and Siraj could do well in English conditions.

England will be better at home but their batting is fragile regardless of conditions so they are susceptible to quality seam bowling and India have quality seamers at their disposal.

My worry is that England will see these pitches as vindication of producing green tops such as the Lord's Test against Ireland when India return in the summer. That thinking will just lead to more Test cricket where the pitch is the talking point rather than the players, sadly.

I'm not sure I totally agree Carlos, I think we need to be careful of overreacting too much based off two (maybe three) test matches in extreme extreme spinning conditions.
Over the past 18 months under Silverwood, England's batting is much much improved, and I still think overall is heading in the right direction.
Good Golly I'm Olly
Good Golly I'm Olly
Tractor Boy
Tractor Boy

Posts : 49744
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 26
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Gooseberry Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:48 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?
I believe 2-1 gets India to the final.

I think the England vs India series will be really tight. Regardless of chat about the pitches they are a good side and deserved number 1 side in Test cricket. Several of their batsman have scored runs in England before. Bumrah, Ishant, Yadav and Shami are excellent bowlers and Siraj could do well in English conditions.

England will be better at home but their batting is fragile regardless of conditions so they are susceptible to quality seam bowling and India have quality seamers at their disposal.

My worry is that England will see these pitches as vindication of producing green tops such as the Lord's Test against Ireland when India return in the summer. That thinking will just lead to more Test cricket where the pitch is the talking point rather than the players, sadly.

I'm not sure I totally agree Carlos, I think we need to be careful of overreacting too much based off two (maybe three) test matches in extreme extreme spinning conditions.
Over the past 18 months under Silverwood, England's batting is much much improved, and I still think overall is heading in the right direction.

150 second digs on the fair pitch is also a warning. England have one player with a test average over 40, he scored almost half Englands runs in sri lanka. There has been progress with the batting and Crawley looks like a player with real potential but you'd have to be as blind as Duty to reality to not recognise England have a problem beyond the extremities of this pitch. It really just highlights how absurdly awful England were for a period, they aren't great now and aren't playing to their potential either individually or collectively.

The big scores they have made are really positive signs, and something they weren't doing for an extended period. But it doesn't make them a strong batting side or good enough to achieve their stated aim of winning the WTC.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:51 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?
I believe 2-1 gets India to the final.

I think the England vs India series will be really tight. Regardless of chat about the pitches they are a good side and deserved number 1 side in Test cricket. Several of their batsman have scored runs in England before. Bumrah, Ishant, Yadav and Shami are excellent bowlers and Siraj could do well in English conditions.

England will be better at home but their batting is fragile regardless of conditions so they are susceptible to quality seam bowling and India have quality seamers at their disposal.

My worry is that England will see these pitches as vindication of producing green tops such as the Lord's Test against Ireland when India return in the summer. That thinking will just lead to more Test cricket where the pitch is the talking point rather than the players, sadly.

I'm not sure I totally agree Carlos, I think we need to be careful of overreacting too much based off two (maybe three) test matches in extreme extreme spinning conditions.
Over the past 18 months under Silverwood, England's batting is much much improved, and I still think overall is heading in the right direction.
I do think the batting has improved with Silverwood encouraging a more conservative approach particularly at the top of the order.

Sibley showing an excellent temperament and settling into the side has been important. I had concerns about Sibley's technique in Test cricket having watched him from a young age but he's impressed me and done well. That has been important for England to have at least one opening spot fairly settled. Though an average a touch over 30 is by no means excellent. He has importantly blunted the new ball at times without going on though.

The other two top 3 spots are a bit up for grabs though. Crawley has huge talent but where he bats is a question mark. Burns has the game to score runs but is 23 Tests in now and not doing so consistently. Add in Pope looking like a player in need of some time in county cricket and many question marks are still there.

I said prior to the series that I believe this England side are on the up under Silverwood's coaching. I still believe that but it is a side with many flaws as well.

king_carlos

Posts : 9546
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Duty281 likes this post

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Duty281 Thu 25 Feb 2021, 3:59 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:We'll see how good this India team is when we play on proper test wickets in the summer, this however is shameful.

The pitch was bad, but India as shown in Australia, are undoubtedly very good.

Does anyone know the permutations for the WTC final? Do India need to win the next game to get in or just a draw?
I believe 2-1 gets India to the final.

I think the England vs India series will be really tight. Regardless of chat about the pitches they are a good side and deserved number 1 side in Test cricket. Several of their batsman have scored runs in England before. Bumrah, Ishant, Yadav and Shami are excellent bowlers and Siraj could do well in English conditions.

England will be better at home but their batting is fragile regardless of conditions so they are susceptible to quality seam bowling and India have quality seamers at their disposal.

My worry is that England will see these pitches as vindication of producing green tops such as the Lord's Test against Ireland when India return in the summer. That thinking will just lead to more Test cricket where the pitch is the talking point rather than the players, sadly.

I'm not sure I totally agree Carlos, I think we need to be careful of overreacting too much based off two (maybe three) test matches in extreme extreme spinning conditions.
Over the past 18 months under Silverwood, England's batting is much much improved, and I still think overall is heading in the right direction.

150 second digs on the fair pitch is also a warning. England have one player with a test average over 40, he scored almost half Englands runs in sri lanka. There has been progress with the batting and Crawley looks like a player with real potential but you'd have to be as blind as Duty to reality to not recognise England have a problem beyond the extremities of this pitch. It really just highlights how absurdly awful England were for a period, they aren't great now and aren't playing to their potential either individually or collectively.

The big scores they have made are really positive signs, and something they weren't doing for an extended period. But it doesn't make them a strong batting side or good enough to achieve their stated aim of winning the WTC.

Nonsense. I've been one of the most critical of England's test side on here in the last couple of years, though I have recognised the improvements under Silverwood, and have spoken encouragingly of the England batsmen with high potential (Crawley/Pope/Foakes).

Duty281

Posts : 27341
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 26
Location : Not having Chance on here

Back to top Go down

England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21 - Page 18 Empty Re: England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 18 of 20 Previous  1 ... 10 ... 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum