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Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

That's not a high tackle. Heyes initial contact is the chest. If you're going to review it, review it properly. It's a legal tackle.

How did the assistant miss that the LI player knocks the ball out of JVP's hands and into touch before the Joseph break. It was right in front of him FFS. Lineout Tigers.

Anyway, Tigers blow what should have been a straightforward win and only get 4 instead of 5 points. LI manage to snatch 2 league points with a TBP at the death. Probably a fair result as LI were the better side in the first half but didn't really show up in the second. Hassell-Collins is looking like a really classy player, shame Parton went off.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Fri 19 Mar 2021, 9:58 pm

TMO bottled it. Wasps didn’t benefit from what will be a long ban

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Post by Heaf Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:05 pm

TMO was Graham Hughes apparently - waste of space we had last week ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 19 Mar 2021, 10:10 pm

Wow the impact of Alfie Barbeary in that second half  Shocked I'm not one for the big hype of youngsters but he provided what that Wasps backrow was desperately missing in the first half. 

Newcastle really imploded in that second half, they should have wound that game up in the first half.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 19 Mar 2021, 11:42 pm

Heaf wrote:Oh - just showed a further clip and it looks like he puts his hand in deliberately ...
Just saw the incident.  First view was not too clear but the subsequent views look bad.  What's the point doing that?  I can only imagine the discussions in both team's changing rooms after the match.  

As to Wasps, with all their possession in the 2nd half, it seemed they had no attacking plan whatsoever.  With 80% possession and the benefit of two yellow cards, they should have had more than 2 tries.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 20 Mar 2021, 7:35 am

Utter stupidity Doc...what was going through his mind.

He'll face a big ban...and I'm not sure how long his contract is. Its a shame as he's a very talented young winger but he might not actually play for us again

Particularly as we have two fantastic young academy wingers screaming for gametime

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 20 Mar 2021, 8:05 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow the impact of Alfie Barbeary in that second half  Shocked I'm not one for the big hype of youngsters but he provided what that Wasps backrow was desperately missing in the first half. 

Newcastle really imploded in that second half, they should have wound that game up in the first half.

Yes considering Alfie has been out for a while he literally hit the ground running.
Good to see big Joe back to.
Tom West made a big difference to the scrum.
That set of officials let themselves down last night though. TMO should have stopped the game. I thought the Falcons played the clock well when they were down to 13. Scrums delayed reset.
But we will take a win & hopefully improve.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 9:53 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow the impact of Alfie Barbeary in that second half  Shocked I'm not one for the big hype of youngsters but he provided what that Wasps backrow was desperately missing in the first half. 

Newcastle really imploded in that second half, they should have wound that game up in the first half.

Yes considering Alfie has been out for a while he literally hit the ground running.
Good to see big Joe back to.
Tom West made a big difference to the scrum.
That set of officials let themselves down last night though. TMO should have stopped the game. I thought the Falcons played the clock well when they were down to 13. Scrums delayed reset.
But we will take a win & hopefully improve.

I agree the officials weren't great but the referee was very quick to stop time for scrums and lineouts which extended the yellow card time. Falcons tried to slow the game down but didn't get away with it. Wasps were pretty wasteful.

Tom West did look very good when he came on. Should be a cert for the summer tour and if I had my way it would be him and Obano. Launchbury was poor and frustrated throughout, he was actually lucky the ref didn't agree with him on the held up try because that could have easily been penalty try and yellow card for the very cynical maul collapse 2m from the line.

You wouldn't think Barbeary had been out injured. To say he was a class apart from the other backrows is no understatement and when you consider the other backrows on the field that's quite an achievement. Another cert for the summer tour. Wasps backrow looked very one paced before he came on, Young probably playing too tight due to the lack of breakdown skills of the other two.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 20 Mar 2021, 10:20 am

I remeber a couple of incidents around lineouts that Jimmy Gosperth was clearly complaining about the clock not stopping. Also the Falcons player throwing the ball away over the hoardings, time wasting & unpunished although seen by officials.
I thought Joe had a good game personally but Barbeary, Oghre & West transformed the game.
Anyway, we will look a lot better with Paolo & Dan back in the side going forward.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 20 Mar 2021, 12:52 pm

Saints side to face Bristol Bears tomorrow afternoon:

5 George Furbank
14 Matt Proctor
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tommy Freeman
10 James Grayson
9 Tom James

1 Alex Waller (c)
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Alex Coles
5 Api Ratuniyarawa
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Tom Wood
8 Teimana Harrison

Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Nick Auterac
18 Ehren Painter
19 Alex Moon
20 JJ Tonks
21 Henry Taylor
22 Piers Francis
23 Harry Mallinder

That is a pretty strong bench, I suspect we will need it.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:11 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I remeber a couple of incidents around lineouts  that Jimmy Gosperth was clearly complaining about the clock not stopping. Also the Falcons player throwing the ball away over the hoardings, time wasting & unpunished although seen by officials.
I thought Joe had a good game personally but  Barbeary, Oghre & West transformed the game.
Anyway, we will look a lot better with Paolo & Dan back in the side going forward.

Gopperth and Launchbury moaned frequently and loudly about pretty much everything. Ref was equally incompetent for both sides but the TMO really dropped the ball with the gouge.

Yes, the little throw over the hoarding should have been a penalty. The ref and the assistants didn't communicate well during the game. That should have been an easy decision.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 20 Mar 2021, 2:32 pm

I know Gloucester aren’t in the best of form and have fielded an inexperienced side, but Quins are currently ripping them to shreds.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 3:10 pm

Van Wyk has just conceded a red card identical to Thorley's which is allowing Chiefs to really give Leicester a kicking, no complaints on that one. The ref is useless which is making the game a difficult watch. Including yellow carding a player who was in the correct side of the ruck and on his own try line for not rolling away and deciding that a a potential try was held up but when referring to the TMO saying the on field decision is try. I think we were spoilt by a competent Championship ref last week and have got a turd this week.

To make matters worse Tigers have lost Brink to a knee injury so expect a big Chiefs victory.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 3:26 pm

On the upside after Chiefs grab their fourth try Tigers pull one back down to 13 with an audacious attacking move off the back of a solid scrum. Then on the stroke of half time JVP dummies over from the back of a good rolling maul.

Ref has started rewarding competing at the breakdown which is helping us.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 20 Mar 2021, 4:32 pm

Tigers lose but get a TBP and at one point had dragged Chiefs back to within 9 points. Plenty of heart and fight to make a Tigers fan proud of the effort. All the young lads worked hard to put a shift in and didn't look out of place. The experienced players led by example.

Not one for the defence coaches but what threatened to be a game ruined by a red card turned out to be almost a cracker. Had we had last week's ref instead of today's Muppet I reckon we'd have had even more entertainment.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:20 pm

Sterling comeback from the Saints in a frenetic game - 0-14 down, now 18-14 up, but a long way from being over.

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Post by englishborn Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:21 pm

Sale finally scoring running tries, we seem to have learnt we don't need to run off Faf 100% of the time. Though silly penalties creeping back in 2nd half.

Irish looking very poor today, certainly helping Sale currently.

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Post by englishborn Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:27 pm

Ahh nice to see, Ollie Hoskins admitted he knocked on for his try.

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Post by Heaf Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:31 pm

englishborn wrote:Sale finally scoring running tries, we seem to have learnt we don't need to run off Faf 100% of the time. Though silly penalties creeping back in 2nd half.

Irish looking very poor today, certainly helping Sale currently.

I suspect they're knackered after 300+ tackles last week Sad

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Post by Heaf Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:43 pm

How many intercept tries can LI give away ...

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Post by Duty281 Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:48 pm

And Bristol somehow snatch victory with two tries in two minutes right towards the end. Another great advert for the sport.

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Post by Heaf Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:48 pm

Yep - Saints will be gutted ...

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 21 Mar 2021, 4:52 pm

Heaf wrote:Yep - Saints will be gutted ...
They should be peed at themselves. Bristol are good, but Saints blew a golden opportunity.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 22 Mar 2021, 10:08 am

doctor_grey wrote:
Heaf wrote:Yep - Saints will be gutted ...
They should be peed at themselves.  Bristol are good, but Saints blew a golden opportunity.  

Seems to be a pattern emerging of letting things slip in the last 10 minutes.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 22 Mar 2021, 10:37 am

Bristol are also showing a real resilience and pulling out good wins even when not playing well or when a number of players are missing.

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Post by Poorfour Mon 22 Mar 2021, 11:14 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Bristol are also showing a real resilience and pulling out good wins even when not playing well or when a number of players are missing.

That's a touch ominous for Quins given we visit them next, but after our performance in Sandy Park last week I hold out hope for at least a good performance and a close game.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 22 Mar 2021, 11:28 am

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Bristol are also showing a real resilience and pulling out good wins even when not playing well or when a number of players are missing.

That's a touch ominous for Quins given we visit them next, but after our performance in Sandy Park last week I hold out hope for at least a good performance and a close game.

14 man Tigers scored 5 tries Vs Chiefs at the weekend and yes all 5 tries came after the 13th minute sending off. Chiefs don't look at their brutal defensive best but their attack was pretty damn good. After Quins try fest at the weekend I'd hope that game is a cracker.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Thu 25 Mar 2021, 3:25 pm

king_carlos wrote:Just seen that Carreras incident. Looks unbelievably stupid and will get him a long ban.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56524390

A very lucky man although effectively finishes the season for him. If I was Richards I’d sack him.
I don’t understand if an offence is ‘intentional and grave’ there is mitigation allowed.
Entry point was midrange 18 weeks but the ridiculous framework allows for 50% reduction.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 25 Mar 2021, 5:17 pm

9 games is unbelievable. Far too short.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 25 Mar 2021, 6:29 pm

Yep that should be longer. It was clearly intentional.

Frustrating when in the same week I think the Willemse incident was reasonably dealt with by getting a 2 week ban. Whilst his was definitely a red for contact to the eye and very dangerous I don't actually think he could have known where his hand was at the time. In super slow mo it looks different of course but in full speed his hand slips up so quickly as he tries to clear out that I don't think he'd have time to realise that's where he's made contact. Terrible clear out technique as even if he hadn't made contact with the eye it's likely a yellow for trying to clear someone out via their head/face, with contact to the eye definitely a red and a 2 week ban is a reasonable in my opinion.

9 weeks for something intentional such as that is poor though.

The citings procedures are largely farcical though. The admitting guilt and good behaviour stuff means that players almost never defend themselves even when they feel they aren't in the wrong. As such admitting guilt for offences where players are obviously guilty (such as this) gets those muppets the same reduction as players who admit guilt just to get out the room quicker.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 25 Mar 2021, 8:12 pm

I think he got away with it because there was no damage done to Bassett. No bruising and no injury. He said he'd given Bassett a prod in the eye area in an attempt to wind him up. Sounds like a moron to me. I mean twenty odd years ago that would be the kind of dirty tactic you might see. He's young and naive and suspect he thought he was being clever. The 9 week ban and the fine I assume the club will give him will quickly knock that out of him. They've structured his ban so he misses the rest of the season. A longer ban would have just seen a Calum Clark situation where he sits out the summer and pre season before returning, also that low life got mitigation on his ban for something that should have seen him in jail.

What must be really frustrating for Deano and the Falcons fans is the kid had been playing brilliantly. Pace and a step you'd almost think his last name was Cordero. I'm sure he'll get a contract for next season at Falcons or somewhere else but he'll feel it in the pocket because he won't get anywhere near the salary he would have done if he wasn't so much of an idiot.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Mar 2021, 12:11 pm

Leicester Tigers XV:
[club appearances in brackets]

15 Freddie Steward [24]
14 Harry Potter [9]
13 Matías Moroni [8]
12 Dan Kelly [10]
11 Kini Murimurivalu [12]
10 George Ford [98]
9 Richard Wigglesworth [8]
1 Ellis Genge [79]
2 Tom Youngs [206]
3 Dan Cole [254]
4 Harry Wells [113]
5 Calum Green [53]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [26]
7 Tommy Reffell [39]
8 Jasper Wiese [8]
Replacements:
16 Charlie Clare [23]
17 Luan de Bruin [9]
18 Joe Heyes [60]
19 Cameron Henderson [9]
20 George Martin [7]
21 Jack Van Poortvliet [15]
22 Johnny McPhillips [15]
23 Guy Porter [13]
Newcastle Falcons: 15 Alex Tait, 14 George Wacokecoke, 13 Pete Lucock, 12 Luther Burrell, 11 Ben Stevenson, 10 Joel Hodgson, 9 Louis Schreuder; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Jon Welsh, 4 Darren Barry, 5 Sean Robinson, 6 Will Welch, 7 Mark Wilson (c), 8 Callum Chick. Reps: 16 George McGuigan, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Connor Collett, 20 Philip van der Walt, 21 Sam Stuart, 22 Brett Connon, 23 Morgan Passman

Looks like it'll be an entertaining end to the weekend.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 26 Mar 2021, 12:17 pm

Falcons:
15 Alex Tait
14 George Wacokecoke
13 Pete Lucock
12 Luther Burrell
11 Ben Stevenson
10 Joel Hodgson
9 Louis Schreuder

1 Adam Brocklebank
2 Jamie Blamire
3 Jon Welsh
4 Darren Barry
5 Sean Robinson
6 Will Welch
7 Mark Wilson (captain)
8 Callum Chick

Replacements

16 George McGuigan
17 Kyle Cooper
18 Mark Tampin
19 Connor Collett
20 Philip van der Walt
21 Sam Stuart
22 Brett Connon
23 Morgan Passman

Young Morgan Passman on the bench...finally.

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Post by lostinwales Fri 26 Mar 2021, 2:19 pm

How on earth can a 21yr old prop rack up 60 first team appearances?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Mar 2021, 2:28 pm

Because the 21 year old prop is nearly 22 and made his debut and started playing regularly for the first team at 19. Murphy decided early on he was Cole's natural successor and Borthwick has agreed. If he can stay fit I can honestly seeing him making 300 appearances for Tigers and quite a few caps for England though he may have to wait another couple of years before he's pushing into the England team regular. At Oval Park Heyes seems to be very highly rated and a bit like Coley he seems to keep his head down and work hard.

GF, bit surprised Falcons didn't go for a lock (presumably Robinson) at 6. Though looking at your bench that might be due to a lack of options. Given Tigers love of the rolling maul under Borthwick it could have helped Falcons out a bit.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 26 Mar 2021, 2:36 pm

lostinwales wrote:How on earth can a 21yr old prop rack up 60 first team appearances?
Heyes is a good example of a youngster being worked into the first XV well - which Tigers have largely failed to do for a long time.

First he got a decent number of bench appearances behind Cole to get exposure.

Then last season Heyes was used as our second choice starting tighthead. By that I mean that if Cole, Heyes and Leatigaga were all fit one of Cole and Heyes would start with Leatigaga usually on the bench. Heyes got more starts than Leatigaga but fewer appearances over the season so the youngster was getting a good number of starts without playing too many games overall to risk injury at a young age.

This season he has kicked on again and made himself firmly second choice tighthead behind Cole regardless of if he's being used as a starter or bench option.

Around a year ago Ehren Painter was the English tighthead I wanted around the EPS as a development option. I also thought Marcus Street was a touch ahead of Heyes as well last season. This season though Heyes has really kicked on and I was very happy to see him in the shadow squad during the Six Nations. As a Tigers fan I'm biased but this season he's looked the best young tighthead in the league to me.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Mar 2021, 4:41 pm

Painter is playing much better than at the start of the season when the entire team appeared flat. Saints scrum is going really well at the moment and I think Painter has a real future. But I would probably give him another year.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Mar 2021, 4:45 pm

When I saw Street after the restart I thought he was going to really push on. Having seen him this season he's not really been that good. Painter seems to be in and out of the Saints side but has a lot of promise. I think more game time will be good for the pair of them but probably not at international level.

Agreed Carlos, Heyes is one of the few Tigers success stories from the last couple of years. Who'd have thought developing young talent instead of buying journeymen would work nicely. I hope Heyes goes on the summer tour, not because I think he's going to overtake either of the two incumbents but because I think it'll be good his development and stop the Welsh fishing around every time his contract is up for renewal.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Fri 26 Mar 2021, 7:13 pm

Cracking try by Josh Hodge for Exeter against Glaws.
Length of the field handing off LRZ wonderful.

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Post by rosbif Fri 26 Mar 2021, 7:54 pm

Boys against men in reality but it is a second string Chief team

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Mar 2021, 8:01 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Cracking try by Josh Hodge for Exeter against Glaws.
Length of the field handing off LRZ wonderful.

Lovely running style, just glides past players. The kick from Heinz is woeful and Hodge just goes for it. Mugging off Twelvetrees and LRZ on the arc and then stepping the fullback. Wonderful try. He's certainly got some X factor talent.

He's starting to come up to Prem speed though he still lost control of the ball in contact which seems to be a weakness. I wonder if he'd be better suited to playing wing in the Chiefs system in the short term as the blindside winger often wraps round and Hodge coming into the line with the ability to glide past players could open things up for the Chiefs.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Mar 2021, 2:45 pm

Am I allowed to say a bitter sweet feeling seeing Hodge score that try.

At least the stream of young talent flowing out of KP seems to be slowing....young wing Morgan Passman recovered from a horrific injury takes a spot on the bench for tomorrow.  Be great to see him get a first run out.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Mar 2021, 2:47 pm

Hodge really is something special....the FB England are crying out for and outstanding off the tee.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:07 pm

Lawrence making a big carry straight away for Wuss...

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:42 pm

Decent game at Bristol

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Post by TightHEAD Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:45 pm

How good is Danny Care. For me he is playing as well as I have ever seen.

Should be England's No9 and if fit going to SA.
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Post by TightHEAD Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:48 pm

What was Paul Gustard doing to make Quin's so bad, was he using Eddie Jones play book?

Quin's look really good without him.
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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:57 pm

Not sure about that last Quins try though ... looked forwards to me.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:59 pm

You could equally question the build up to the maul which got the pen try though. Thomas knocks on when challenging care.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Mar 2021, 3:59 pm

Aahh quins qive it away at the end

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 27 Mar 2021, 4:00 pm

TightHEAD wrote:How good is Danny Care. For me he is playing as well as I have ever seen.

Should be England's No9 and if fit going to SA.

Nah go with Randall and Mitchell etc now

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