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Gallagher Premiership 2020/21

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 Mar 2021, 9:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

That's not a high tackle. Heyes initial contact is the chest. If you're going to review it, review it properly. It's a legal tackle.

How did the assistant miss that the LI player knocks the ball out of JVP's hands and into touch before the Joseph break. It was right in front of him FFS. Lineout Tigers.

Anyway, Tigers blow what should have been a straightforward win and only get 4 instead of 5 points. LI manage to snatch 2 league points with a TBP at the death. Probably a fair result as LI were the better side in the first half but didn't really show up in the second. Hassell-Collins is looking like a really classy player, shame Parton went off.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:16 pm

With Sale losing to Warriors, a Bonus point would do us nicely here.

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Post by Heaf Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm

Officials are having shockers all over the place this weekend ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm

I really like JVP.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:33 pm

Saints during their usual and losing the last 20
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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:34 pm

First half all us...2nd half now all Gloucester...

21-24 to us.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:38 pm

And standard Falcons resume...28 - 24 Gloucester

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Post by Heaf Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:40 pm

That'll do I have Glaws by 5

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:41 pm

As frustrating as Tigers unforced errors are it should be said that Jack van Poortvliet is a bloomin' marvelous player.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:44 pm

Something good followed by something poor. Story of Tigers match so far. This has been a very winnable game.

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Post by Heaf Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:45 pm

A converted try by Tigers would do nicely for me ...

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:49 pm

Such a shame to see Biggar limping off. He's been very good most the times I've seen him this season.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:50 pm

king_carlos wrote:Such a shame to see Biggar limping off. He's been very good most the times I've seen him this season.

Or limping back on as Saints have no subs left. Brave but hopefully not foolish.

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Post by Heaf Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:50 pm

Drat

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:51 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:And standard Falcons resume...28 - 24 Gloucester

Shambolic defending, especially from Connon/wingers.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:53 pm

Never seen such an embarrassing change in performance....jekyll and Hyde

As good as our first half was....the second half was atrocious...

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Post by Heaf Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:55 pm

Tigers blew so many chances - annoying ....

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 24 Apr 2021, 4:59 pm

Heaf wrote:Tigers blew so many chances - annoying ....

So, so many. The lack of support for the ball carrier, the handling errors it was all so poor. Got to be better. Fair play Saints weathered the well not storm so much as light drizzle of Tigers attack well and were clinical when they had chances.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 25 Apr 2021, 10:35 am

We could have done with BP as Sale got one. They must be our targets as they have both Chiefs and Bristol in the run in. Quins is a lot easier.
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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Apr 2021, 12:08 pm

It's Leicester, and a win against Leicester is always a good win. We let them get far too close but they also earned their scores so I will take what we get!

Biggar showed how incredibly tough he is, a side of him we don't always see. And his post-match comments about how poorly Saints played in the second half shows his belief and the growing confidence in the squad. A year ago, I thought we were heading off a cliff. Now signs of a team gelling. Whether we really have the goods, we still have to see. But it is nice to see Saints playing good Rugby again.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 25 Apr 2021, 2:15 pm

doctor_grey wrote:It's Leicester, and a win against Leicester is always a good win.  We let them get far too close but they also earned their scores so I will take what we get!

Biggar showed how incredibly tough he is, a side of him we don't always see.  And his post-match comments about how poorly Saints played in the second half shows his belief and the growing confidence in the squad.  A year ago, I thought we were heading off a cliff.  Now signs of a team gelling.  Whether we really have the goods, we still have to see.  But it is nice to see Saints playing good Rugby again.

The frustrations for Saints has to be their penalty count. They conceded a lot of penalties and more than Tigers (I think after the first quarter they were 4-1 down and in the second quarter it was 7 consecutive which led to the yellow). That level of discipline kept Tigers in the game. Saints always looked the more cohesive side but they never looked like they were taking control of the game. Tigers hadn't got enough to punish them but if they play like that Vs Chiefs or Bristol then it'll be a high scoring loss for them. They'll score tries but they'll concede more.

Biggar showed his best and his worst, getting marched back 10 early doors for dissent really didn't help his team's cause with the ref. Staying on the pitch and marshalling the troops well even whilst injured was crucial for Saints seeing the game out. I think he gives that Saints backline another dimension when he's there, they can attack without him but he adds direction and tactical nous.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Apr 2021, 4:11 pm

Well deserved man of the match - earned his week off.  This guy is a leader.  And as I said was very composed and analytical in his post-match despite clearly hurting.  One of our Lions 10s?
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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 25 Apr 2021, 4:15 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Well deserved man of the match - earned his week off.  This guy is a leader.  And as I said was very composed and analytical in his post-match despite clearly hurting.  One of our Lions 10s?
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He'll definitely be in contention, playing in that attacking Saints side will only help him, really he just needs to keep his mouth shut around the referee. I'd have given MOTM to one of your forwards personally. Ludlam for the turnovers and being a menace living on the edge of the laws at the breakdown, Aldendorff for the all day carrying or Ribbans who was just class.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Apr 2021, 4:24 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Well deserved man of the match - earned his week off.  This guy is a leader.  And as I said was very composed and analytical in his post-match despite clearly hurting.  One of our Lions 10s?
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He'll definitely be in contention, playing in that attacking Saints side will only help him, really he just needs to keep his mouth shut around the referee. I'd have given MOTM to one of your forwards personally. Ludlam for the turnovers and being a menace living on the edge of the laws at the breakdown, Aldendorff for the all day carrying or Ribbans who was just class.
Good comments! The problem for me is most of the forward pack played really well. I couldn't pick between many of them. Really just a case of giving it to the whole group. I thought our backs played fairly well, but many of their plays were more individual. And if we think about it, the difference in the match may have been Hutchinson picking off Ford for that try.

I think Tigers were frustrating Saints and almost forcing the penalties. A little more cohesive play on attack and they would have pulled out the match at the end (although I didn't think Tonks penalty was a yellow). Good tight match down to the wire.

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Post by Heaf Sun 25 Apr 2021, 5:05 pm

Tigers frustrated me the most - cost me a Grand Slam on Superbru - and annoyingly I'd changed my pick from Saints when I saw the late team changes.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 Apr 2021, 5:39 pm

Heaf wrote:Tigers frustrated me the most - cost me a Grand Slam on Superbru - and annoyingly I'd changed my pick from Saints when I saw the late team changes.  
Bath screwed me on Superbru.  Didn't watch the match, but I saw Bath were given a red late on after which Wasps scored twice. I am sure the ref gave the red just to prevent me getting a clean winning slate this weekend.

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Post by Heaf Sun 25 Apr 2021, 8:39 pm

That was a tricky one - I swapped back and forth between Wasps and Bath a few times but luckily settled on Wasps.  Good match with Wasps looking like they were going to run away with it at the start then Bath came back after a nasty injury to Launchberry and had all the momentum and looked like they were going to win, but then the red came and it all turned around again - the last Wasps try made it look more convincing than it was and annoyingly took away my margin half-point.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 26 Apr 2021, 8:36 am

Heaf wrote:Tigers frustrated me the most - cost me a Grand Slam on Superbru - and annoyingly I'd changed my pick from Saints when I saw the late team changes.  

Frustrated you? Try being a Tigers fan, 13 handling errors during the game and 8 turnovers in the Saints 22. Get Saints where you want them and then let them off the hook.

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Post by Cumbrian Mon 26 Apr 2021, 11:07 am

Managed to watch a few games this weekend, I'll tell you one thing I'm getting really sick of... Packs of forwards bellowing as yet another scrum collapse results in a penalty. The whole penalty award seems almost random and seems to result in one team taking their turn to scream like loonies.

I really wish they could sort the situation out, because nobody is tuning in to watch 6 fat lads repeatedly throw themselves at each other's feet for three or four minutes at a time.
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Post by Heaf Mon 26 Apr 2021, 12:11 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Tigers frustrated me the most - cost me a Grand Slam on Superbru - and annoyingly I'd changed my pick from Saints when I saw the late team changes.  

Frustrated you? Try being a Tigers fan, 13 handling errors during the game and 8 turnovers in the Saints 22. Get Saints where you want them and then let them off the hook.

I'll see that bid and raise you being an Irish fan Hug

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 26 Apr 2021, 12:59 pm

Heaf wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Tigers frustrated me the most - cost me a Grand Slam on Superbru - and annoyingly I'd changed my pick from Saints when I saw the late team changes.  

Frustrated you? Try being a Tigers fan, 13 handling errors during the game and 8 turnovers in the Saints 22. Get Saints where you want them and then let them off the hook.

I'll see that bid and raise you being an Irish fan Hug

Sadly your all wrong...falcons fans win...

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Post by GeordieFalcon Mon 26 Apr 2021, 7:35 pm

Sam, what's your thoughts on young Harry Wells...he looks like hes developing into an old school niggly tigers forward/lock.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 26 Apr 2021, 7:53 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam, what's your thoughts on young Harry Wells...he looks like hes developing into an old school niggly tigers forward/lock.
My first thought would be he's not that young at 27! He spent three or four seasons away with Bedford developing his game really well then returned to Tigers. I'm pretty sure he was actually away there on a full Bedford contract as well rather than dual-reg.

Harry has developed into a really reliable part of the Tigers pack. He's key to the lineout and his maul defence under Borthwick has come on a long way, whilst his defence is lively as ever in tackle and rucks. I have sometimes felt he gives away too many penalties in the lineout but with more viewing of our maul defence under Borthwick I actually think there may be tactics involved in taking risks there once the maul is set.

It's something I think we are seeing more sides do on lineout defence I think. Once a maul is set and moving it almost always results in a penalty anyway with current interpretations so better to sack early and risk a penalty there and then to kill the attack than concede advantage after being drive 10 metres further down the field when the opposition can launch a free attack from front foot ball. Perhaps I'm thinking cynically though.

Overall I think Wells has developed into a very solid Premiership second row that I'd be happy to see stay at Tigers for most his career. Ideally for Tigers to push on from our current mid table performances (already an improvement under Borths) to play-off contenders I'd say that Wells would need to be a second choice player with Martin hopefully pushing past him to be a starter and partnering a signing to replace Lavanini.

Against Saints for instance I thought Wells was solid as ever but Ribbans outplayed our locks throughout.

Borthwick is definitely getting a lot more out of our locks than Tigers have got since 2014/15 when Parling and Thorn departed. It's been a huge weakness that is now a pretty solid area of the squad but does still have plenty of room for improvement.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 26 Apr 2021, 9:24 pm

I like Wells he does quite a bit for charity, he's got some coaching badges and his ref qualifications. I'd love him to be a ref after he retires just for the first happy scrum half to question him and have the 6 foot 5 19 stone ref give him the glare. He's got a decent menacing presence thing going but like Carlos says he's a good squad player. The kind of valuable squad player you want to produce but we will need some of the youngsters with potential to overtake him so we have greater quality.

I'm happy with what he does and his ability to play 6 is also useful I just doubt there's much more in terms of level of growth with him. Which is fine everyone needs a horrible lock in the squad.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 27 Apr 2021, 8:36 am

king_carlos wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Sam, what's your thoughts on young Harry Wells...he looks like hes developing into an old school niggly tigers forward/lock.
My first thought would be he's not that young at 27! He spent three or four seasons away with Bedford developing his game really well then returned to Tigers. I'm pretty sure he was actually away there on a full Bedford contract as well rather than dual-reg.

Harry has developed into a really reliable part of the Tigers pack. He's key to the lineout and his maul defence under Borthwick has come on a long way, whilst his defence is lively as ever in tackle and rucks. I have sometimes felt he gives away too many penalties in the lineout but with more viewing of our maul defence under Borthwick I actually think there may be tactics involved in taking risks there once the maul is set.

It's something I think we are seeing more sides do on lineout defence I think. Once a maul is set and moving it almost always results in a penalty anyway with current interpretations so better to sack early and risk a penalty there and then to kill the attack than concede advantage after being drive 10 metres further down the field when the opposition can launch a free attack from front foot ball. Perhaps I'm thinking cynically though.

Overall I think Wells has developed into a very solid Premiership second row that I'd be happy to see stay at Tigers for most his career. Ideally for Tigers to push on from our current mid table performances (already an improvement under Borths) to play-off contenders I'd say that Wells would need to be a second choice player with Martin hopefully pushing past him to be a starter and partnering a signing to replace Lavanini.

Against Saints for instance I thought Wells was solid as ever but Ribbans outplayed our locks throughout.

Borthwick is definitely getting a lot more out of our locks than Tigers have got since 2014/15 when Parling and Thorn departed. It's been a huge weakness that is now a pretty solid area of the squad but does still have plenty of room for improvement.

I actually didnt realise...i thought he was still one of the youngsters. The few games of the Tigers i do see he looks a good aggressive type of player. Just reminded me of the old tigers forwards...not afraid to rough it up a bit.. .

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 27 Apr 2021, 9:13 am

Oh yeah he loves to get in there and mix it up. Very aggressive. As Carlos says that does mean he gets pinged a bit. I think if he was from an earlier era of the game a lot of what he gets pinged for now he'd get away with but these days you've got to be smarter and paint the best picture to the ref which angry man with the glare doesn't always do. I think actually talking to the ref more might be better for him because he's an articulate bloke, another reason that if he wants to ref after he retires he'd actually do well.

He's been round the block a bit actually, played England under 20s, went to Clermont as part of a club exchange, played for Notts and then Bedford in the Championship. Ended up coming home afterwards.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 27 Apr 2021, 9:20 am

Ah well...good player to have in the squad.

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Post by TightHEAD Wed 28 Apr 2021, 10:20 pm

Obano banned for 5 weeks for attempting to rip the ball out of the tackle! The world's gone mad, red card is enough of a punishment.

When rugby starts again at grassroots level players are going to walk away from our game if they keep getting sent off. It's cowpat.
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Post by Margin_Walker Wed 28 Apr 2021, 11:21 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Obano banned for 5 weeks for attempting to rip the ball out of the tackle! The world's gone mad, red card is enough of a punishment.

When rugby starts again at grassroots level players are going to walk away from our game if they keep getting sent off. It's cowpat.

Really?

He steamed into a tackle head on head. What he tried to do after is neither here nor there. It's unfortunate, but you just can't do that these days (for good reason imo).

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Post by king_carlos Thu 29 Apr 2021, 6:50 am

Margin_Walker wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Obano banned for 5 weeks for attempting to rip the ball out of the tackle! The world's gone mad, red card is enough of a punishment.

When rugby starts again at grassroots level players are going to walk away from our game if they keep getting sent off. It's cowpat.

Really?

He steamed into a tackle head on head. What he tried to do after is neither here nor there. It's unfortunate, but you just can't do that these days (for good reason imo).
Now now Margin. Let's not allow logic to get in the way of hyperbole.

Honestly, the temerity of people these days.

Bludy youths I tell yer. Remembering wot actually 'appened. Using their witchcraft to undermine us. Wot next eh?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 29 Apr 2021, 7:36 am

TightHEAD wrote:Obano banned for 5 weeks for attempting to rip the ball out of the tackle! The world's gone mad, red card is enough of a punishment.

When rugby starts again at grassroots level players are going to walk away from our game if they keep getting sent off. It's cowpat.

Or he could have bent at the waist and made a legal tackle? He wasn't trying to rip the ball he steamed in to make a dominant hit. Had he taken the impact and tried to rip he may have been ok but as soon as you enter contact with force in an upright position these days you are running the risk.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Apr 2021, 8:09 am

Players and coaches are taking their time with this aren't they. You still get a couple of high profile incidents getting away with it too (Jonny Williams should have gone off with a red as well as concussion in the 6ns). At least the commentators on BT don't act in mock surprise as you get elsewhere when the red is flashed.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 29 Apr 2021, 8:42 am

I was surprised to see him get 5 weeks though, did he have previous? I was expecting 3 weeks.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Apr 2021, 9:37 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:I was surprised to see him get 5 weeks though, did he have previous? I was expecting 3 weeks.

The RFU have started to put out a brief check list on the suspensions which at least shows you through the steps though obviously there are still some strange decisions. https://www.englandrugby.com/search-results?searchBy=obano#all

'The Panel was mindful of the minimum mandatory mid-range entry point requirement. However, in the
view of the Panel, the injury sustained by W6 was a significant feature, distinguishing this case from
other similar incidents of dangerous tackles that have come before RFU panels this season, and was
such as to require a Top End entry point. Whilst the tackle was reckless, it was wholly unnecessary and
avoidable, and that added to the injury led the Panel to determine that Top End was the appropriate
entry point.
The Panel noted the need to arrive at an entry point of between 10 and 52 weeks. In its view, the
offending was not so serious as to warrant a further increase from the 10 week Top End starting point.'

No 7&1/2

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 04 May 2021, 9:56 am

Be glad to get the Premiership back, European rugby is mostly overrated (Tigers / Ulster was good). How dull are the French teams to watch.
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Post by king_carlos Tue 04 May 2021, 10:54 am

TightHEAD wrote:Be glad to get the Premiership back, European rugby is mostly overrated (Tigers / Ulster was good). How dull are the French teams to watch.
Nothing about the ref or Hooper.

Montpellier must have played very well!

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 04 May 2021, 11:20 am

king_carlos wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Be glad to get the Premiership back, European rugby is mostly overrated (Tigers / Ulster was good). How dull are the French teams to watch.
Nothing about the ref or Hooper.

Montpellier must have played very well!

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”  - Albert Einstein kiss
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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 04 May 2021, 12:14 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Be glad to get the Premiership back, European rugby is mostly overrated (Tigers / Ulster was good). How dull are the French teams to watch.

I dunno Tolouse and La Rochelle are both pretty high on the entertainment level. Montpellier were so loose that they were a compelling watch.

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Post by TightHEAD Tue 04 May 2021, 12:39 pm

I think the premiership has been better value this season. Much more entertaining to watch, this weekend left me feeling empty, really didn't enjoy the games.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 06 May 2021, 12:19 pm

For Friday night Tigers rotate heavily.

TIGERS XV
[club appearances in brackets]

15 Zack Henry [21]

14 Kobus Van Wyk [11]

13 Matías Moroni [13]

12 Dan Kelly [15]

11 Kini Murimurivalu [17]

10 Johnny McPhillips [17]

9 Ben Youngs (c) [258]

1 Luan de Bruin [15]

2 Charlie Clare [29]

3 Joe Heyes [65]

4 Cameron Henderson [12]

5 Tomás Lavanini [33]

6 George Martin [12]

7 Cyle Brink [14]

8 Hanro Liebenberg [30]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Nic Dolly [1]

17 James Whitcombe [4]

18 Will Hurd [1]

19 Calum Green [57]

20 Jasper Wiese [14]

21 Jack Van Poortvliet [18]

22 David Williams [4]

23 Freddie Steward [30]

Sale Sharks: 15 Luke James, 14 Byron McGuigan, 13 Sam James, 12 Sam Hill, 11 Marland Yarde, 10 AJ MacGinty, 9 Faf De Klerk; 1 Bevan Rodd, 2 Akker van der Merwe, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 4 Cobus Wiese, 5 Josh Beaumont (c) 6 Jean-Luc du Preez, 7 Tom Curry, 8 Daniel du Preez.
Replacements: 16 Ewan Ashman, 17 Ross Harrison, 18 Will-Griff John, 19 James Phillips, 20 Cameron Nield, 21 Raffi Quirke, 22 Kieran Wilkinson, 23 Connor Doherty

Can't see past a Sale win. The scrum half battles both starting and off the bench will interesting. You'd imagine Quirk Vs JVP will be a battle that will be repeated for a good decade or so.

Dolly and Kelly play against the team who rejected them in their academy days. Dolly and Hurd to make their Prem debuts with a very young Tigers replacement front row, average age of 21.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Fri 07 May 2021, 12:13 pm

Newcastle Falcons team to face London Irish (Saturday, 3pm, Kingston Park Stadium, live on BT Sport Extra 3)

15 Tom Penny
14 Adam Radwan
13 Matias Orlando
12 Luther Burrell
11 Ben Stevenson
10 Brett Connon
9 Louis Schreuder

1 Trevor Davison
2 George McGuigan
3 Logovi'i Mulipola
4 Greg Peterson
5 Sean Robinson
6 Will Welch
7 Mark Wilson (captain)
8 Callum Chick
Replacements

16 Jamie Blamire
17 Kyle Cooper
18 Mark Tampin
19 Philip van der Walt
20 Carl Fearns
21 Sam Stuart
22 Joel Hodgson
23 George Wacokecoke

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