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LIONS ANNOUNCEMENT

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 13 Apr 2021, 3:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

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Post by The Oracle Tue 04 May 2021, 3:50 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If this is true I hope Gatland actually uses him and doesn't just dent his international career as he did with Wade.

Wade's call-up was disastrous because it stopped him from showing what he could do on the England tour. In 2013, we were still labouring under the misapprehension that late call-ups could make it into the Test team on performance. As it turned out, the nature of the tours meant that was no longer true. It's the reason Gatland went for his infamous geography call-ups. At the time, I thought Gatland cheapened the shirt but now I can see his point. He had come to realize that late call-ups were just cannon fodder to protect his actual Test selections, and had no chance to be in the Test squad barring a freak thumb injury from someone playing too much Call of Duty.

Plus the jet lag factor. Players called up needed travel time plus 24 or 48 hours to get over it before they were any use. Which is why Shane Williams was called up because he could literally jump straight in, and did, whereas calling up a winger from the UK would have meant missing the game by the time they packed, got a flight, flew, landed and the jet lag had worn off. Gats would then have had to risk a test winger and the player flying in would literally be no use! I was not keen on it but it was logical.

What was unfair was the claim that Wales had toured Samoa just to be in the right place come Lions time. However, the IRB/World Rugby sets (or did back then) the tour schedule years in advance so it was not a bit of opportunism from Wales. Just a bit of luck. Although I bet the Geography 6 probably didn't feel that lucky when they read the press and forums Smile
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Post by BigGee Tue 04 May 2021, 4:06 pm

Massively unfortunate for all of those players, who probably did not feel they really had the option to turn down the invitation and yet were probably under no illusions that they were joining up as cannon fodder and tackle bag holders. There's was very much a second class Lions experience which they were diplomatic about when later questioned about it.

I really hope they do not do that again. Take enough players to deal withy the itinerary. The Lions market themselves as the last great touring team, so players may have to play a bit more often than usual. Bringing in players to just sit on the bench with others in the squad saying they would refuse to be subbed off for them would have been the most awful experience for those guys.

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Post by LordDowlais Tue 04 May 2021, 4:17 pm

Telegraph are reporting that AWJ will be the captain for the Lions:-

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/05/01/outstanding-candidate-alun-wyn-jones-expected-named-lions-captain/

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Post by The Oracle Tue 04 May 2021, 4:32 pm

Oh heck! Run
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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 04 May 2021, 4:48 pm

BigGee wrote:...I really hope they do not do that again. Take enough players to deal withy the itinerary...
It was part of the hangover from the 2005 tour. Woodward was criticized for the size of his party, so the response was to shrink it. As it turned out Woodward actually ran out of players, which is why Greenwood and Gareth Thomas was the final Test centre partnership.

The 2009 was so brutal, players dropped like flies, and we saw a stream of replacements (including the unfit Ryan Jones), so supporters had a sense that replacements could still rise to the occasion, as Martin Corry had in 2001. However, Gatland had learned his lesson by 2013, and took enough players to always have a Test 23. That was the model in 2017 too, so late call-ups on both tours were just to make up the midweek numbers.

This time, the tour party is smaller. However, there are fewer fixtures, and the whole nature of COVID protocols means it will probably be harder to call someone up. Since you always need two front rows and two scrum halves in a match squad, and the full squad usually has three for each position, that's where injury call-ups can be unavoidable. You usually have at least four options for other positions.

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Post by doctor_grey Tue 04 May 2021, 9:12 pm

We need a Danny Grewcock type to lead. In fact, we need 15 of them!

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 04 May 2021, 10:00 pm

doctor_grey wrote:We need a Danny Grewcock type to lead.   In fact, we need 15 of them!

Grewcock was alright but he wasn't Johno was he.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 05 May 2021, 12:36 am

Apparently, if no player from Leicester is selected, it will be the first time that's happened since 1968. Dan Cole was the only Tiger on the last tour.

Youngs, Genge and Ford were the prime contenders. Youngs has now pulled out, Genge says he didn't receive an availability letter, and Ford is only an outside bet.

As far as former Tigers, Manu Tuilagi is in a lot of selections, and and Jonny May is an outside possibility.

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 05 May 2021, 12:40 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:We need a Danny Grewcock type to lead.   In fact, we need 15 of them!

Grewcock was alright but he wasn't Johno was he.
No clearly not. I think MJ was a generational type of leader/player. But Grewcock could get under people's skin like a pro - and had the scars to prove it. My comment was partially tongue-in-cheek. But not entirely. Who is England's enforcer? And the Lions?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 05 May 2021, 7:39 am

Rugby Fan wrote:Apparently, if no player from Leicester is selected, it will be the first time that's happened since 1968. Dan Cole was the only Tiger on the last tour.

Youngs, Genge and Ford were the prime contenders. Youngs has now pulled out, Genge says he didn't receive an availability letter, and Ford is only an outside bet.

As far as former Tigers, Manu Tuilagi is in a lot of selections, and and Jonny May is an outside possibility.

In surprised Genge wasn't in consideration though I half expected him to pull out of any summer tour for England or the Lions as he's spoken of the mental stress of the 6N bubble and he's got a baby at home.

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Post by bsando Wed 05 May 2021, 9:42 am

Considering the coaching setup for this tour I am of the mind that we may see a few of the 50:50 choices leaning towards Scotland tomorrow. Not many but certainly one or two. Below are two positional selections that I think may surprise a few non Scots fans. Obviously I could be completely wrong but I've tried to gather the evidence to support my argument.

Blindside Flanker - Navidi vs Underhill vs Ritchie - If one of these players was to be in contention to join Beirne as a backup 6 I think an in form Underhill would have got the nod. However, Navidi and Ritchie have a better shot due to their game time in the 6N. My gut feeling is Gatland will want Navidi but Toonie will want Ritchie. Ritchie is well documented for his breakdown and defensive prowess but if you watch many of Scotland's backline plays he is often the link between the forwards and backs ( https://youtu.be/zt69hhyKEGc?t=135 - https://youtu.be/zt69hhyKEGc?t=199 both 2020 6N). So a tough one to call but having Townsend involved may help Ritchie sneak on the plane. All three players are brilliant operators.

Scrum Half - Price vs Care - With Youngs out that leaves Davies and Murray on most peoples team sheets. All the talk has been about Danny care this week, in fact I was sucked into this chat earlier this week believing the pundits had a point. Upon reflection I actually think it is a bit ridiculous.

Ali Price played every match in the 6N with a total of 335 minutes of international rugby accumulated whilst Care wasn't involved with England. It's just another maddening statistic for England fans I imagine because we all know Care is a good player. He's had recent good games for Quins which has brought his name into Lions contention, but honestly, is it realistic to think he will actually tour with no international game time prior to the 2019 rugby world cup? Kyran Bracken made the following comments regarding Care last November.. “He made the mistake of speaking his mind to Eddie Jones and questioning how he wanted him to play when he was playing with an England ‘B’ team against Japan in the autumn of 2018. Eddie’s response to that was ‘that’s not the attitude I want’ and he binned him from his plans. Hearsay perhaps, but Price has been nothing but a loyal servant for Scotland and Glasgow and Townsend has been his coach for most of his career in one way or another.

Laidlaw was the Lions third choice SH in 2017 and he had played a lot of rugby in the 6N prior to the tour. He was well prepared to slot in if an injury occurred to Webb or Murray. Based on this recent Lions history, I think Price will play a similar role in the 2021 tour of SA. And just to remind some who may think he's not as flamboyant as Care, he can be equally as effective in attack https://youtu.be/CnCX8zIy7es?t=435

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Post by BamBam Wed 05 May 2021, 9:46 am

I like Ritchie, he's been very impressive for a while now. Underhill has usually played 7 for England with Curry moving to 6 when both are fit, but their roles are pretty similar. So many good options there though, I'd take Curry, Underhill, Ritchie, Watson, Beirne and Navidi as my flanker options as I think they cover all bases.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 05 May 2021, 9:49 am

bsando wrote:Ali Price played every match in the 6N with a total of 335 minutes of international rugby accumulated whilst Care wasn't involved with England. It's just another maddening statistic for England fans I imagine because we all know Care is a good player. He's had recent good games for Quins which has brought his name into Lions contention, but honestly, is it realistic to think he will actually tour with no international game time prior to the 2019 rugby world cup? Kyran Bracken made the following comments regarding Care last November.. “He made the mistake of speaking his mind to Eddie Jones and questioning how he wanted him to play when he was playing with an England ‘B’ team against Japan in the autumn of 2018. Eddie’s response to that was ‘that’s not the attitude I want’ and he binned him from his plans. Hearsay perhaps, but Price has been nothing but a loyal servant for Scotland and Glasgow and Townsend has been his coach for most of his career in one way or another.

TBH scrum half could be a problem position for the Lions, and I think we can all agree Ali Price is not the answer, heck, the Scottish fans don't want him playing for Scotland, so why would they want him playing for the Lions ?

If reports are to be believed, then Spencer and Kieron Hardy have been approached. But I still think Connor Murray will be starting, with Gareth Davies being the back up.

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Post by BamBam Wed 05 May 2021, 9:51 am

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:We need a Danny Grewcock type to lead.   In fact, we need 15 of them!

Grewcock was alright but he wasn't Johno was he.
No clearly not.  I think MJ was a generational type of leader/player.  But Grewcock could get under people's skin like a pro - and had the scars to prove it.  My comment was partially tongue-in-cheek.  But not entirely.  Who is England's enforcer?  And the Lions?

Grewcock was a terrifying individual. Luckily the Lions have Alun Wyn Jones - anyone willing to cling on to that combover must be completely unhinged

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Post by bsando Wed 05 May 2021, 9:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:
bsando wrote:Ali Price played every match in the 6N with a total of 335 minutes of international rugby accumulated whilst Care wasn't involved with England. It's just another maddening statistic for England fans I imagine because we all know Care is a good player. He's had recent good games for Quins which has brought his name into Lions contention, but honestly, is it realistic to think he will actually tour with no international game time prior to the 2019 rugby world cup? Kyran Bracken made the following comments regarding Care last November.. “He made the mistake of speaking his mind to Eddie Jones and questioning how he wanted him to play when he was playing with an England ‘B’ team against Japan in the autumn of 2018. Eddie’s response to that was ‘that’s not the attitude I want’ and he binned him from his plans. Hearsay perhaps, but Price has been nothing but a loyal servant for Scotland and Glasgow and Townsend has been his coach for most of his career in one way or another.

TBH scrum half could be a problem position for the Lions, and I think we can all agree Ali Price is not the answer, heck, the Scottish fans don't want him playing for Scotland, so why would they want him playing for the Lions ?

If reports are to be believed, then Spencer and Kieron Hardy have been approached. But I still think Connor Murray will be starting, with Gareth Davies being the back up.

Well that was one point I didn't mention, perhaps with a reduced squad there will only be two scrum halves. I would like Price to tour, he's reliable and well rounded. He won't start a test but he could easily slot in off the bench.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 05 May 2021, 10:01 am

BamBam wrote:Luckily the Lions have Alun Wyn Jones - anyone willing to cling on to that combover must be completely unhinged

You seriously need to keep this man crush you have on AWJ a little more private, your obsessed with him. Laugh

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Post by BamBam Wed 05 May 2021, 10:06 am

LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Luckily the Lions have Alun Wyn Jones - anyone willing to cling on to that combover must be completely unhinged

You seriously need to keep this man crush you have on AWJ a little more private, your obsessed with him. Laugh

Says the white knight riding into battle every time he’s criticised laughing

He might notice you eventually Stan

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 05 May 2021, 10:45 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Same with tactics too Oracle.

Sorry LD you'd changed your questions while I was writing my response. My point on 15 better was based on the fact that Jones is probably sat in the stands for me so clearly it needs to be those starters. For point of ref you've had some of those in my previous but here you go, there's a list of caveats on that ie how things go in the x number of matches to go before that first test.

Marler LCD Furling
Itoje Ryan
Ritchie Curry
Faletau/Vunipola
Williams Farrell
May Henshaw probably North Watson
Hogg

Forgot about Higgs credentials actually, he'd put his hand up im sure.

I dont think LCD will be picked ahead of Ken Owens. AWJ will be in the team, as will Hamish Watson. I think you might be a little disappointed as an English fan if you think the players you have picked will start.

Watson may well be in the team but that simply means Curry playing at 6 instead of 7, his peak performances surpass those of anyone else available. Marler if he makes himself available starts as does LCD who is the best set piece hooker available, have him alongside a competent loosehead at scrum time and he's a big step up on Owens in that regard.

Soul Requiem wrote:Watson may well be in the team but that simply means Curry playing at 6 instead of 7, his peak performances surpass those of anyone else available.

What peak performances are these?. World Cup 2019 SF - even Faf said Tipuric was immense, contrast that to Curry's performance a week later, then you can easily see its the top 6 inches that marks them apart. Fast forward to the 6Ns 2021, it proves my point. I cannae see anything that suggests Curry at his peak (which was the 2019 stone lighter, faster model), is anywhere close to Tipuric's consistent performances over the last decade. Like Farrell, then Itoje, the english media obsession to clamour for "world class" english players doesn't mean it's actually the case, don't get clouded by the clamour.

If we are going to pack them big at blind-side to accommodate the energy of Watson or the awareness of Tips on the open-side, then lets go for the best on form BSF in 2021 Beirne.

Although I'd be more than happy to see
6. Beirne 7. Curry 8. Faletau

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Post by alive555 Wed 05 May 2021, 10:51 am

Beirne, Watson, Faleatau.

Consistent top form, over reputation. With a big emphasis on consistency and form

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 05 May 2021, 11:00 am

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BamBam wrote:Luckily the Lions have Alun Wyn Jones - anyone willing to cling on to that combover must be completely unhinged

You seriously need to keep this man crush you have on AWJ a little more private, your obsessed with him. Laugh

Says the white knight riding into battle every time he’s criticised laughing

He might notice you eventually Stan

Bam Bam, I didn't realise you have such a man crush on the blonde blue eyed hunk that is AWJ.......is it just the cute comb-o you like or is it a bit deeper rooted Wales LIONS ANNOUNCEMENT  - Page 16 3933776953

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Wed 05 May 2021, 11:08 am

Ok ok....that'll do.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 05 May 2021, 11:19 am

flyhalffactory wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Same with tactics too Oracle.

Sorry LD you'd changed your questions while I was writing my response. My point on 15 better was based on the fact that Jones is probably sat in the stands for me so clearly it needs to be those starters. For point of ref you've had some of those in my previous but here you go, there's a list of caveats on that ie how things go in the x number of matches to go before that first test.

Marler LCD Furling
Itoje Ryan
Ritchie Curry
Faletau/Vunipola
Williams Farrell
May Henshaw probably North Watson
Hogg

Forgot about Higgs credentials actually, he'd put his hand up im sure.

I dont think LCD will be picked ahead of Ken Owens. AWJ will be in the team, as will Hamish Watson. I think you might be a little disappointed as an English fan if you think the players you have picked will start.

Watson may well be in the team but that simply means Curry playing at 6 instead of 7, his peak performances surpass those of anyone else available. Marler if he makes himself available starts as does LCD who is the best set piece hooker available, have him alongside a competent loosehead at scrum time and he's a big step up on Owens in that regard.

Soul Requiem wrote:Watson may well be in the team but that simply means Curry playing at 6 instead of 7, his peak performances surpass those of anyone else available.

What peak performances are these?. World Cup 2019 SF - even Faf said Tipuric was immense, contrast that to Curry's performance a week later, then you can easily see its the top 6 inches that marks them apart. Fast forward to the 6Ns 2021, it proves my point. I cannae see anything that suggests Curry at his peak (which was the 2019 stone lighter, faster model), is anywhere close to Tipuric's consistent performances over the last decade. Like Farrell, then Itoje, the english media obsession to clamour for "world class" english players doesn't mean it's actually the case, don't get clouded by the clamour.

If we are going to pack them big at blind-side to accommodate the energy of Watson or the awareness of Tips on the open-side, then lets go for the best on form BSF in 2021 Beirne.

Although I'd be more than happy to see
6. Beirne  7. Curry  8. Faletau

You make it sound like Curry is past it. At this point it may be worthwhile pointing out that Tipuric is 31 and Watson is 29. Curry is 22.

The view on who is best is totally subjective and heavily influenced by how you want to play, but from an England point of view Curry has become a much more rounded played with more strings to his bow over the last couple of years, and the impact he has made at such a young age gives me hope that he will turn into an England great. A lot of the improvements to his game have been about knowing when to get involved at the breakdown, in carrying, and in the more unseen arts that having a bit more bulk helps with. He's become a very versatile player that can fill in any position in the back row. He's not the best 8, but he's a lot better there than when he first played there.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 05 May 2021, 11:42 am

alive555 wrote:Beirne, Watson, Faleatau.

Consistent top form, over reputation. With a big emphasis on consistency and form

Good back-row, I'd have Curry on the bench as cover. If Beirne starts then Gatland might even opt for Curry and Tipuric on the bench.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 05 May 2021, 11:54 am

Just to shake your back row debate up a bit, Ugo Monye has been suggesting on his podcast that Aaron Wainwright could be in contention as he is a star in the making.

Do you agree with Ugo Monye ?

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Post by bsando Wed 05 May 2021, 12:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Just to shake your back row debate up a bit, Ugo Monye has been suggesting on his podcast that Aaron Wainwright could be in contention as he is a star in the making.

Do you agree with Ugo Monye ?

He's not wrong about Wainwright, I really rate him from what I've seen so far. Is he back playing regularly now after missing the 6N?

Due to that lack of international rugby I think he's not going to be called up tomorrow but will have been sent a letter like many of the other decent back row options.

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Post by RiscaGame Wed 05 May 2021, 12:06 pm

Nah, Wainwright has acknowledged himself from quotes taken from a South Wales Argus article

Chris Kirwan wrote: While Monye believes Wainwright is in the mix, the man himself is looking to play in a different red jersey this summer.

After missing out on the Wales 23 for the Six Nations finale against France, when Wayne Pivac opted for James Botham as back-up for Josh Navidi, Justin Tipuric and Taulupe Faletau, Wainwright is looking to add to his 29 caps.

“Possibly before the Six Nations but it’s a bit of a far reach now,” he said on his Lions hopes. “I will concentrate on the Dragons and hopefully put my hand up for the summer tour.”

Wales were meant to face Argentina and Uruguay in South America but are now looking at other options for Tests.

I feel a bit for Wainwright (and Moriarty), in that they have had to chop and change a little for Dragons recently. Tend to alternate between 6 and 8. I like Wainwright as a player, but I still see him as a player finding his feet at international level. It’s a bit early for Lions talk, for me.

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Post by Fluxy Wed 05 May 2021, 12:10 pm

Go back to the 2019 world cup, and Wainwright was the standout Welsh player for me. He's not finding his feet, he's just been out of the frame due to injury.

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Post by GeordieFalcon Wed 05 May 2021, 1:00 pm

Are people honestly writing off Tom Curry already...as past it??

picard

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Post by lostinwales Wed 05 May 2021, 1:11 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Are people honestly writing off Tom Curry already...as past it??

picard

FHF is a hard man to please, apparently

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 05 May 2021, 2:16 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:No Ben Youngs, Family Reasons but happy this time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9533263/England-scrum-half-Ben-Youngs-PULLS-summers-Lions-tour-South-Africa.html

Yeah understandable. Two kids and a heavily pregnant wife isn't the time to travel to South Africa in a global pandemic. I agree it's nice that it's good news this time. I also think a summer off and full pre season will be good for him, he'll certainly need to keep playing well for Tigers as young JVP is starting to look pretty handy.


Didnt Youngs also get selected for the last Lions tour but withdraw for family reasons?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 05 May 2021, 2:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:No Ben Youngs, Family Reasons but happy this time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9533263/England-scrum-half-Ben-Youngs-PULLS-summers-Lions-tour-South-Africa.html

Yeah understandable. Two kids and a heavily pregnant wife isn't the time to travel to South Africa in a global pandemic. I agree it's nice that it's good news this time. I also think a summer off and full pre season will be good for him, he'll certainly need to keep playing well for Tigers as young JVP is starting to look pretty handy.


Didnt Youngs also get selected for the last Lions tour but withdraw for family reasons?

Yes his sister in law had cancer and at that point the medical diagnosis was that it might have been her last summer. She has since had a fairly remarkable recovery but again it was understandable that he'd there to support his brother Tom. Clearly he's a family man.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 05 May 2021, 2:52 pm

Good on him

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Post by Old Man Wed 05 May 2021, 4:07 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:No Ben Youngs, Family Reasons but happy this time. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-9533263/England-scrum-half-Ben-Youngs-PULLS-summers-Lions-tour-South-Africa.html

Yeah understandable. Two kids and a heavily pregnant wife isn't the time to travel to South Africa in a global pandemic. I agree it's nice that it's good news this time. I also think a summer off and full pre season will be good for him, he'll certainly need to keep playing well for Tigers as young JVP is starting to look pretty handy.


Didnt Youngs also get selected for the last Lions tour but withdraw for family reasons?

Yes his sister in law had cancer and at that point the medical diagnosis was that it might have been her last summer. She has since had a fairly remarkable recovery but again it was understandable that he'd there to support his brother Tom. Clearly he's a family man.
I have a lot of respect for a professional sportsman that can prioritise family over an extra buck and fame.

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 05 May 2021, 6:09 pm

lostinwales wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Are people honestly writing off Tom Curry already...as past it??

picard

FHF is a hard man to please, apparently

Oh really and where did you get that impression from? picard

I only replied to this hyperbole
Soul Requiem wrote:Watson may well be in the team but that simply means Curry playing at 6 instead of 7, his peak performances surpass those of anyone else available.

with this
FlyHalfFactory wrote:What peak performances are these?. World Cup 2019 SF - even Faf said Tipuric was immense, contrast that to Curry's performance a week later, then you can easily see its the top 6 inches that marks them apart. Fast forward to the 6Ns 2021, it proves my point. I cannae see anything that suggests Curry at his peak (which was the 2019 stone lighter, faster model), is anywhere close to Tipuric's consistent performances over the last decade. Like Farrell, then Itoje, the english media obsession to clamour for "world class" english players doesn't mean it's actually the case, don't get clouded by the clamour.

If we are going to pack them big at blind-side to accommodate the energy of Watson or the awareness of Tips on the open-side, then lets go for the best on form BSF in 2021 Beirne.

and I ended with this
FlyHalfFactory wrote:Although I'd be more than happy to see
6. Beirne  7. Curry  8. Faletau

Firstly I asked the poster on evidence of these "peak performances" that surpassed any other British & Irish rival.......Certainly not on the last 12 months unless he's talking ANC and certainly not on a direct 1-2-1 comparison of the last games against SA i.e Tips v SA and a week later Curry V SA and regarding Watson!, well the 2021 6Ns stats and performances clearly reveals who was head & shoulders Watson v Curry or even Tipuric v Curry. I think that Curry is a superb player, he has the potential to be world class and a future England captain. Unfortunately in my opinion, under Eddie Jones he's become more versatile across the BR at the expense being world class in one position

Secondly I closed by saying I certainly would be happy with Curry starting at 7

Just to make sure its transparent OK

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 May 2021, 10:13 pm

Sam simmonds sounds like he's getting picked then. A few words today about Gatlamd reassuring him his chances didn’t rest with being a current international before the 6 nations. Decent bench option id always felt but for England he'd be after dombrandt, vunipola and mercer for me.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 05 May 2021, 10:43 pm

There’s a few folk that will be triggered tomorrow, for sure. #AWJ

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 05 May 2021, 10:51 pm

Well he looks set to be named captain. Just hope that doesn't mean he's guaranteed to start.

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 05 May 2021, 11:07 pm

https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

Interesting comparison for all the potential Lions positions based all the matches during the 6Ns 2021

Have a butchers at the spine of the side,
2
4 & 5
.....hell look at every position
Based on that some of the nailed one players probably wouldn't or shouldn't be on the plane

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Post by Cyril Wed 05 May 2021, 11:14 pm

Flyhalf, I really hope that at least 2 or 3 Scots (Scottish qualified by whatever) get picked in the squad or you might have a meltdown.

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Post by flyhalffactory Wed 05 May 2021, 11:19 pm

Cyril wrote:Flyhalf, I really hope that at least 2 or 3 Scots (Scottish qualified by whatever) get picked in the squad  or you might have a meltdown.

Thanks for your contribution Cyril as always it's enlightening

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Post by Cyril Wed 05 May 2021, 11:36 pm

No problem. Happy to help.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 06 May 2021, 12:06 am

It's wonderful how the coming together of players from each of the home nations has an unrivaled ability to drive a wedge between fans from each of the home nations.

Every time a tour party is picked there are questions about balance of players and 'Lions spirit'. I honestly don't think there's any group in rugby whose actions live up less to the Lions spirit than many home nations fans in the build up to the squad announcement.

I guess it's the nature of every game being available to watch and rewatch so easily these days. Pretty much anything notable a player does both good and bad is seen over and over again, in slow mo and from half a dozen different angles. It amplifies both the good and bad. We all mainly remember the good for players our predisposed biases lend us to like and mainly remember the bad for players we are predisposed to dislike.

The era of polarised opinions I guess.

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Post by Cyril Thu 06 May 2021, 12:06 am

I do worry that after the abuse Gatland got during and after the last Lions tour he is going to settle at a four equal split this time. It’s already happening with the appointment of Townsend.

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Post by y ddraig goch Thu 06 May 2021, 12:29 am

doctor_grey wrote:We need a Danny Grewcock type to lead.   In fact, we need 15 of them!

LOL lead them to the sin bin. We'd have 10 players by half time.


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Post by y ddraig goch Thu 06 May 2021, 12:30 am

I expect some surprises tomorrow, a few more younger and fitter players in the squad than most people think. For instance I don't think Sexton will tour.

Whatever happens I'm sure the right players will be picked.

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Post by Cyril Thu 06 May 2021, 12:42 am

I doubt it. This will be a tour of the old guys. Sexton and Murray will be there.

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Post by Cyril Thu 06 May 2021, 12:46 am

There will be a 4 spilt for all Nations as Gatland will feel the pressure. 8 or 9 of each side. It won’t reflect how it should be, but better that than face the usual wrath.

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Post by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 6:49 am

flyhalffactory wrote:https://contenthubble.com/playground/lions-selection/

Interesting comparison for all the potential Lions positions based all the matches during the 6Ns 2021

Have a butchers at the spine of the side,
2
4 & 5
.....hell look at every position
Based on that some of the nailed one players probably wouldn't or shouldn't be on the plane

broken tackles

DVM - 32
May -9
Adams - 7
Watson - 13
LRZ - 7
Earls - 8

DVM also had the higest no of metres made, , most tries and lowest missed tackles. If hes not on the plane theres something seriously wrong!

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 6:55 am

DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

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Post by alive555 Thu 06 May 2021, 7:01 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:DVM has a great chance but there's big question marks regarding his defence and rightly so.

Do his attacking attributes outweigh his potential defensive issues? I'd be inclined to take him tbh, just for the potential match up against Kolbe...it would be immense to watch.

Total Nonsense

MISSED TACKLES 6 NATIONS

DVM - 3 IN 400 MINS
LRZ - 9 IN 400 MINS
MAY - 5 IN 400 MINS
ADAMS - 9 IN 240 MINS
WATSON - 7 IN 395 MINS


DVM had the best defensive stats.

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